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Could a title that once looked better on HD-DVD now look better on Blu-Ray, or will there eventually be a 4K transfer?

3K views 16 replies 8 participants last post by  John Mason 
#1 ·
Back when there was a thread featuring King Kong comparison pics (HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray), the edge was given to the HD-DVD. It is one of my favorite titles, and I still own a factory sealed Toshiba HD-A35. I am debating whether I should sell it or keep it.


Is it possible with the advancing technology in Blu-Ray players that it now looks as good or better on Blu-Ray as on HD-DVD? Have/will they do go back and redo it in a higher quality transfer on Blu-Ray? Or is all of this irrelevant because there will eventually be a 4K transfer that will blow both out of the water? (Please say yes, I need the $!) Thanks!
 
#2 ·
I doubt in motion either encode looked better than the other.


The HD DVD decoders never quite reached Blu-ray level simply because of advancements over time, so King Kong might look very slightly better on Blu-ray today, but it's probably splitting hairs. It would be an interesting comparison though on a large screen set-up. It's too bad Universal didn't use a high bit AVC encode for the Blu-ray as it would be more definitive. Yes, the 4K version handled properly will be a big improvement on a large screen or front projection set-up, but we're likely talking years before seeing such.
 
#3 ·
As the saying goes: you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.


Whilst encoding techniques have improved, it is still very much dependent on the source material: if the studios don't bother to do a better transfer, then the quality will remain the same.


I'm not quite sure why some Bluray releases are not as good as the HD-DVD versions: it's quite easy to convert an HD-DVD into Bluray format without re-encoding, so at the least one should have identical results. I suspect the studios simply chose to re-encode the masters to AVC for Bluray and filtered the material too much in the process. Many of the earlier Bluray releases are also sub-par, having been filtered versions of HDTV masters or simply too much filtering used.


Sometimes the poorer video of Bluray is offset by better audio quality.


It's possible some of the poor Bluray versions might be released later in a better form, but I fear that the studios won't bother with many of their catalogue titles as it's extra money at a time when profits are declining, or if they do, provide it to an organisation like Twilight Time who release limited runs at a premium price.


My gut feeling is that Bluray will decline in favour of streaming, but who really knows what will happen.


If you wish to stray to the dark side of illegality, you could rip those HD-DVD which are better than their Bluray equivalents and convert them into Bluray format and then give-up HD-DVD altogether. Some people have even merged better Bluray audio with the better HD-DVD video (eg The Thing).
 
#4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD  /t/1534913/could-a-title-that-once-...ere-eventually-be-a-4k-transfer#post_24808868


As the saying goes: you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.


Whilst encoding techniques have improved, it is still very much dependent on the source material: if the studios don't bother to do a better transfer, then the quality will remain the same.


I'm not quite sure why some Bluray releases are not as good as the HD-DVD versions: it's quite easy to convert an HD-DVD into Bluray format without re-encoding, so at the least one should have identical results. I suspect the studios simply chose to re-encode the masters to AVC for Bluray and filtered the material too much in the process. Many of the earlier Bluray releases are also sub-par, having been filtered versions of HDTV masters or simply too much filtering used.


Sometimes the poorer video of Bluray is offset by better audio quality.


It's possible some of the poor Bluray versions might be released later in a better form, but I fear that the studios won't bother with many of their catalogue titles as it's extra money at a time when profits are declining, or if they do, provide it to an organisation like Twilight Time who release limited runs at a premium price.


My gut feeling is that Bluray will decline in favour of streaming, but who really knows what will happen.


If you wish to stray to the dark side of illegality, you could rip those HD-DVD which are better than their Bluray equivalents and convert them into Bluray format and then give-up HD-DVD altogether. Some people have even merged better Bluray audio with the better HD-DVD video (eg The Thing).

So is King Kong noticably better on HD-DVD?


Also, with that ripping and then converting to Blu-Ray idea you mentioned - will it look exactly the same as the HD-DVD? And if I'm willing to do that, is there absolutely no reason to keep my HD-DVD player? Thanks!
 
#5 ·

I have three, and there is absolutely no reason to keep them. 


Serenity is considered better on BD than HD, but I only have the HD so I can't comment.

Converting the file to another format won't change either the audio or the video, but it is a PITA, and doesn't always work. BTW, as long as you own the HD, I'm pretty sure it's quite legal (as long as you're not selling the converted file).

As with albums that have been re-released over the years, some transfers/conversions have been better than others. Same here.
 
#8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir  /t/1534913/could-a-title-that-once-...ere-eventually-be-a-4k-transfer#post_24806715


Yes, the 4K version handled properly will be a big improvement on a large screen or front projection set-up, but we're likely talking years before seeing such.

The final version only exists in 2K. I suppose technically it could be possible to re-scan the negative and re-render all of the effects, then redo all the colour timing to create a new 4K version, but the time and expense involved make it extremely unlikely.
 
#12 ·
Quote:Originally Posted by DavidHir 

Yes, the 4K version handled properly will be a big improvement on a large screen or front projection set-up, but we're likely talking years before seeing such.


The final version only exists in 2K. I suppose technically it could be possible to re-scan the negative and re-render all of the effects, then redo all the colour timing to create a new 4K version, but the time and expense involved make it extremely unlikely.
What is 2K?
 
#9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by worth  /t/1534913/could-a-title-that-once-...ere-eventually-be-a-4k-transfer#post_24809678


The final version only exists in 2K. I suppose technically it could be possible to re-scan the negative and re-render all of the effects, then redo all the colour timing to create a new 4K version, but the time and expense involved make it extremely unlikely.

Have you seen both versions?
 
#10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by worth  /t/1534913/could-a-title-that-once-...ere-eventually-be-a-4k-transfer#post_24809678


The final version only exists in 2K. I suppose technically it could be possible to re-scan the negative and re-render all of the effects, then redo all the colour timing to create a new 4K version, but the time and expense involved make it extremely unlikely.

True...especially with a studio like Universal who puts very little effort into catalog titles.
 
#13 · (Edited)
If you limit what's meant by "better" between two or more sources to effective resolution or resolvable details, anyone should be able to measure differences. Look for finely detailed scenes throughout Blu-rays or other HD sources.


Measure specific details on screen between the different media . For example, vertically oriented human hairs or distant lettering. Place a ruler with small subdivisions such as millimeters on freeze-framed images. Or use an optical loupe with an installed comparison reticle. This link, entered from within the AVSforum, has loupe/reticle suggestions and other details:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...ons-embedded-video-internet.html#post20206296

Then, with a width reference for the detail, compare that measured width with a 1920X1080 test pattern on your screen. Find a resolution test pattern with the same width, showing you the measured effective resolution of the detail in so-called TV lines.

Posts 3 and 6 of the link above provide suggestions for Blu-ray test-pattern sources. -- John


EDIT: Here's recently measured example , using a ruler but no lens.
 
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