OFFICIAL T2: Extreme WM9 HD-DVD Review Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 02:09 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Dick Kalagher
Is this part of some application? I have power DVD. You apparently need a software DVD player installed. I tried it on another computer and got the same CSS error. Any ideas?

I had the elecard player/decoder(the registered version) pack installed to take advantage of the demuxer with .ts streams. I tried installing WinDVD and still had the same CSS error. I then uninstalled the elecard filters completely and re-installed WinDVD 4.0 this fixed the CSS error. I don't have a copy of PowerDVD handy ATM, but my suggestion would be to uninstall it and try a trial install of WinDVD and see if that doesn't fix the problem.

On a side note I just watched about 15 minutes and I think it looks great, I have an NForce 2 mobo so I get the 5.1 sound. It definetly isn't as good as the DD 5.1EX on the main disk but it doesn't sound all that bad to me. Also it played silky smooth on my AMD 2100XP, 512mb PC2700 ram, 9700AIW machine.

I'd just like to say Microsoft give me MORE! But please please please don't allow content owners to use Interactuals player it sucks!
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post #152 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 02:36 PM
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Is this movie called Terminator 2 or Total Recall. Cause I hear Artisan recalling all these defective discs. They should have joined up with Disney and if your license wasn't acquired properly your disc would self destruct and explode and turned all your computer equipment into a big pile of rubble.

This is sad. I learned how to program Unix and I can't get this dvd to work. I contacted them multiple times and they said first the license server was down and should be working tomorrow. Then they told me to send the disc back to them and they would replace it with a new one. This is a BIG F#CK #P by Artisan! I have to get a license every 5 days for a POS dvd movie that is over 10 years old and costs $20. Its not like Artisan is trying to protect a brand new movie that has potential to make millions of dollars. Do I get any updates with this license acquisition over the net? Which corporate officer over at Artisan agreed to do this? You know they would like to do this with every dvd they publish. For the limited amount of people that could really enjoy this disc, aka everyone who is on this site, who have elaborate HTPC's can fully enjoy the full benefits of this disc are going to jump through many hoops to get this movie to play. Great way to build customer loyality.
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post #153 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 02:38 PM
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I bought the disc today everything seems to run fine, but no picture no sound. Is there any other way to play this thru another player. Right now I know my PC will not play it very well ( amd xp1700) but i will have my new computer finished tomorrow ( P4 2.4C, springdale, Dual 3200DDR, Radeon 9800), so it should play it without a hitch. But i would think that I would at least get a picture from the Interactual player. anybody else having this problem.

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post #154 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 02:53 PM
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Oh yea, they are gathering personal information on you in case you missed this window when installing the iplayer.
LL
LL
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post #155 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 03:16 PM
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For me, after the interactual player said "click OK to agree and get the license" I clicked 'OK', it downloaded something, Media Player popped up and said, "you've acquired a new license, do you want to back it up?" I figured great, it worked, now I can watch it. Nope. The InterActual "acquire license" popup comes back up and said, "press play to view" but the play button stays greyed out. Meanwhile the player underneath is saying loading...please...wait...

that's it. It's still sitting there 2 hours later. loading...please...wait...
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post #156 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 03:16 PM
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The Good: Well, I uninstalled my software dvd players (windvd, powerdvd). Downloaded and installed cineplayer trial. Installed InterActual player, no more CSS error.

The Bad: Now it seems that "Playback Has Failed Due To An Error With The Audio Subsystem"

I still can't get the software to work. I finally blocked the punch to my face, and I got nailed in the gut.
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post #157 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 03:43 PM
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I was able to get rid of the CSS error by uninstalling some public domain DVD programs that were on my computer. It could have been DVD toolbox that was causing the problem.
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post #158 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 04:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Karnis

Oh and BTW....the audio sucks. I found the volume to be too low, dynamics were flat, and overall quality mediocre. This is on an M-Audio DeltaDio connected to a Yamaha RX-V1 via SP/DIF so I only get DPL. Again, maybe in a dorm room on a PC sound system its passable, but in a true home theater environment where DD and DTSare well established, it couldn't hold up. Just pony up for the license and add a DD 5.1 track, please! Sheesh, just buy Dolby Labs for Christs' sake!

I've been a little confused by this myself. AFAIK, you can't have a WMV file with Dolby audio.

They do have a 5.1 track, but it's in Windows Media format. So you can't play it via SPDIF on your Delta Dio. You either need a card that has 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 discrete audio output and you feed these analog signals into your receiver/amplifier, or you need a sound card that can re-encde the multichannel audio into DD, like the nForce2 chipset does.

But you really can't say that the audio sucks because you're not listening to it. All you're listening to is the stereo down-mix massaged into Pro Logic, which is guaranteed to suck.

I would venture a guess that the surround track is actually BETTER than DTS or DD5.1 if you do use the discrete 6ch analog option. That's what I've been told by the experts in this forum, anyway. I, myself, have an nForce motherboard and I'm realtime-re-encoding it as DD5.1 because my Sony STR-DA30ES doesn't have discrete 5.1 inputs.

-x
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post #159 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 04:47 PM
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I'm fully aware of the WM 5.1 soundtrack. And the need for a multichannel soundcard. And you are incorrect about a DD track option, amir from MS has already stated in previous post you can have a DD track, if the content provider chooses to do so. IMHO, the fact that is in WM9 5.1 sucks right off the bat. The vast majority of home theater users pass multichannel via SPDIF to an external decoder. Check the poll at the TheaterTek forums if you want a recent sampling of HTPC users.

FMD80:
Check my earlier post how I fixed getting past that error.
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post #160 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 05:18 PM
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For all those with broadband here in the states: Try using WMP with no proxy setting then double click on the *.wmv file on the disk. It won't work the first time, even after it says that it got a license. Then close WMP and reopen and double click on the same file. This is how I got it to work after trying to no avail with the interactual player.

Paul Seng
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post #161 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 05:30 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Karnis
I'm fully aware of the WM 5.1 soundtrack. And the need for a multichannel soundcard. And you are incorrect about a DD track option, amir from MS has already stated in previous post you can have a DD track, if the content provider chooses to do so. IMHO, the fact that is in WM9 5.1 sucks right off the bat. The vast majority of home theater users pass multichannel via SPDIF to an external decoder. Check the poll at the TheaterTek forums if you want a recent sampling of HTPC users.

I *am* one of those users SPDIF users. I didn't know you could have a DD5.1 or DTS soundtrack in the WMV format. I wonder why they didn't include it... I suppose there must be a facility to select which soundtrack you want to play back just like the DVD Main Menu screen often offers under Options. I don't know if that exists.

When you said the audio sucks, I think most of us took it to mean that the soundtrack sounded bad, not that the choice of WM9 5.1 wasn't to your liking.

I'm guessing that teh WM9 5.1 track actually sounds better than DD or DTS, but not as many HTPC folks can enjoy it.

-x
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post #162 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 05:32 PM
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Yeah Karnis. I had seen your post and had tried it and it didn't work. I decided to put the disc in my laptop to test (the machine that I do a lot less experimental work on) and it played right away. I played it in media player 9 as well. I decided to back the license up to its default save location, copy that folder over to my pc and I loaded that file into WM9. Now the movie plays on here. No need for the interactual stuff. I did manage to destroy my installations of my dvd players. But that is easily fixable. As some people mentioned earlier, M$ is going to have to flex some muscle in the future so the InterActual player isn't necessary anymore. M$ has all the muscle in the world, I don't see why changing things in the future should be a problem, given a little time. For the most part I enjoy M$'s existence (unlike a lot of people). I find they make some things a lot less of a hassle for me. Hopefully this can be added to the list in the future. I hope next time I won't need 2 computers (that cost me $4000 put together) to get a $20 DVD to work. I've expended so much energy trying to figure this out. I'm now too tired to watch the damn movie. haha

Tip for all the people that plan on buying this one. Beware of InterActual. It could be real easy. Or REALLY hard.
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post #163 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 05:39 PM
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The audio being in wm 5.1 and not dd or dts might have to be due to the space on the disk, since it is sharing with other "extras". I think that the 5.1 wma is at a bitrate of 128k while dd or dts is 400k and more.

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post #164 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 05:55 PM
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Please keep the feedback coming!

We will take all of your responses and pass them on to the appropriate teams at Artisan Entertainment, InterActual, and here at Microsoft. Your experiences will help us improve future HD projects.

Some Troubleshooting Tips
====================

For issues with the InterActual player, you can start by looking at their support site. They also have a customized FAQ for T2 up now with lots of helpful information.

General support: http://support.interactual.com/

T2 FAQ: http://player.interactual.com/help/s...icles/0134.asp

Workaround to acquire licenses
=======================

We have noticed a number posts on licensing issues and workarounds to acquire a license and/or play the movie from the Windows Media Player. Below is a description of a direct way to acquire a license from a command prompt and play content from the Media Player. Note, as already posted WM9S player is required, and chapter seek does not function in WM9S Player. Interactual implemented this and other functionality.

a. From a command prompt (StartRun"cmd"), navigate to the DVD drive root.

b. Run the DVDRUN.EXE program (type DVDRUN.EXE and hit enter). The program should exit silently if successful, or display an error dialog if a problem was encountered. For instance, if the PC is not connected to the internet, a dialog will display saying that an internet connection is required.

c. Once DVDRUN has finished, start Windows Media Player 9 Series. Do a FileOpen, and navigate to the folder on the DVD that contains the WMV files: \\common\\win\\lang\\en\ 2x\\esource. To play the entire film, simply open the CHAP_0.ASX file. You can also open the WMV files individually.

d. The license acquisition window will come up and a EULA will appear the first time through. Once you agree to the EULA, a license will be delivered. Press the play button to start the movie.

Just as with the InterActual Player, you will need to acquire new licenses, using this method from the DVD, every 5 days.

Thanks,
-Dan
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post #165 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 06:19 PM
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Does anyone have any good sources that account for how "good" WMA is supposed to sound compared to DD and DTS and the same/similar bitrates? I was under the impression that it is better (in terms of sound quality) to have WMA where you normally would have DD, but not better to have it over DTS. Opinions, links?


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post #166 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 06:54 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by dgehred
[b]Please keep the feedback coming!

I can't believe you are charging people to beta test this flaky DVD.
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post #167 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 07:06 PM
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Excellent work, dgehred. That got me up & running, without installing the Interactual Player!

Thanks,
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post #168 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 07:10 PM
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I am late into this thread 'cause I've been watching the movie (I'm up to chapter 32).

I agree. Not only is the install of the Interactual Player unfriendly, it doesn't work correctly. I got the video subsystem failure several times; I changed my video settings up and down and then read on their website that maybe the software couldn't find my dvd software. I re-installed Intervideo (it came free with my MSI GeForce MX 440 AGP8X 64 mb video card), but clicking on the Play button left me with a 'Loading ... Please wait ' message'... forever. A post in a DVD Software thread on T2 suggested rebooting. That worked and I finally got to a dvd menu. When I clicked on T2 I learned my video had to be 1600 x 1200, which on my 19" monitor is difficult to read. I switched to the desktop and changed the setting, but when I got back Interactual was frozen.

Then it still would not play. I tried the suggested 'reinsert the dvd' trick several times. Sometimes Interactual loaded, sometimes not. And when it did sometimes clicking on T2 suggests reinserting the dvd and other times shows the system requirements with the continue button. BTW I have an Athlon 2500 XP+ with 512 mb ram, a K7N2G mbo, and the MX440 video.

The only playing problem, so far, was at the end of chapter 22 when it paused for about a second, the cpu usage jumped to 99%, and then play continued. It was like a slightly longer side change on a dvd.

I won't get to finish this movie tonight. But so far so good, after initial travails.

Tom
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post #169 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 07:11 PM
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This DRM crap is totaly BS. There's no way I'm buying this DVD.
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post #170 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 07:38 PM
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Is there a registry setting or tweak to force Interactual Player to downmix the 5.1 WMP9 audio to 2 channel stereo? Im only using SPDIF on my HTPC. The only way I know how to get around this is to use WMP9 player itself and play the files directly from \\common\\win\\lang\\en\ 2x\\esource. WMP9 DOES downmix the audio so I can hear all audio channels, but it can't play the sequence of files seemlessly without a big pause between media files (even when queued).

PS: 1080p plays smooth as silk on a 3GHz PC
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post #171 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 07:39 PM
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I have only tried it on my Athlon 2000XP system, and as to be expected it is jerky at times. However, I have a 3.0GHz, 800FSB system coming in a week or two

The Interactual player sucks eggs. I tried using the trick mentioned above to play it in WMP and it seems to work, although I haven't played more than 5-10 minutes of the movie.

Other than being told to insert the disc a few times (even though it was), I've had no problems getting the disc to play or to acquire the license. As mentioned earlier, the IA player is horrible, unintuitive and downright nasty.

I can't wait for my new system to get here so I can really see how this look on my LCD HDTV...
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post #172 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 07:41 PM
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well mine shipped today from deepdiscount dvd but it has a long way to go so will let you know how I go when i get it... I have an AMD Athlon 1.8 at home and Compaq 1.8 P4 for work so will be interesting to see how it goes...
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post #173 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 08:23 PM
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Now I have to play all my DVDs with Interactual! In fact now when I insert a DVD Interactual locks up. I will not waste any more time with this %#@&.

I reinstalled my WINDVD software which means my pc is back to being functional for playing DVDs.

Pardon me if I already said this, but not owning any previous version of T2 I was surprised by the lack of 'ordinary' extras on this version. For example, I guess I must look at the crfedits at the end to see a list of who played whom in the movie.

Tom
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post #174 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 08:41 PM
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This fixed everything for me.
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post #175 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 09:31 PM
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The Interactual player worked better for me than some, but still didn't work as smoothly as it should. It aquired the license OK, but hung at the point where the dialog box pops up telling you to hit the "play" button to start the movie (which as has been described in an earlier post was greyed out). It was just a matter of exiting the player and opening the files in WMP9 to get the movie running. This compared to the SITSOM DVD which, minus the Interactual player, worked flawlessly.

Now, on to the quality. I would agree to the sentiment that the video quality is very good, but doesn't quite "wow" me. The notable exceptions to this are scenes that contain explosions and fire. WM9 does an amazing job at displaying these, to the point where you can quite easily pick out the real thing from effects created in post processing.

Overall, I feel it's worth the purchase. I'm looking forward to see what else might be coming down the pike, and whether they learn from the mistakes made with this release.
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post #176 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 09:33 PM
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One thing I want to say in MS's defense...

The DRM itself does not need to be painful... Consider the BMW hire clips... I would not have even known they were DRM protected... I just put them in and played them...

Artisan have choosen to tie this with the IA player and adopt geographic restrictions... Artisan have had thier license server go down... Artisan have precisely 1 person on that cs@artisanent.com email (according to the reply I got from it) who sounds stressed to the point of a nervous breakdown...

It is Artisan who were not ready for this not necessarily the system itself... Problem is of course putting power into the hands of unready content owners...

I also agree the sound may not be up to DTS or DD quality... I have my HTPC halfway through an upgrade (and waiting on parts being mailed) so could not check a 5.1 output only a downmix... It sounded lower volume and less distinct but I wanted to listen in native 5.1 as that could be an effect of the downmixing...
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post #177 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 09:35 PM
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Agreeing to a EULA just to watch a movie? I don't think so.
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post #178 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 09:37 PM
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did everyone else get the same...

You must agree to the EULA 'Agree' button with no description of the EULA etc... I mean whats up with that... Is it a joke ?? How can anyone have ever looked at that and thought that made any sense.. agree to something that is not explained... !!!
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post #179 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 09:53 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
did everyone else get the same...

You must agree to the EULA 'Agree' button with no description of the EULA etc... I mean whats up with that... Is it a joke ?? How can anyone have ever looked at that and thought that made any sense.. agree to something that is not explained... !!!

Nope there was a scroll bar at the eula on my machine that I could scroll through before accepting. Pretty much standard same stuff although I noted that the eula stated you couldn't copy the files to your hardrive. Guess I shouldn't mention that I copied them or Artisan might pay me a visit
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post #180 of 890 Old 06-03-2003, 11:39 PM
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I've now watched the first few scenes of this, so I'll chime in. My setup includes an Audigy 2 hooked up through the analogue outs (so I can hear DVD-A at full quality), so I did get true 5.1 sound. And I have to tell you, at least in the first few scenes, it does sound pretty damn good compared to most movies. I'm not enough of an audio enthusiast to give any specifics, except that the channel separation was very apparent - the channels didn't seem to merge into eachother like in most movies, especially the rear channels. When a laser beam shot from offscreen back and to the left onto the screen towards the center, for example, it did actually sound like the beam went over my shoulder.

As for the visual quality, I'll repeat what others have said - definitely noticably better than DVD, but not nearly up to par with broadcast HD. If this is better than the D-VHS version, than I pity the poor people who paid $50 for that one. I wouldn't mind seeing these things as extras on normal DVD movies, but based on this movie, I don't want this to become the standard. Maybe when they are given more storage space, bandwidth, and the full resolution (as opposed to being scaled up to full resolution), this could become worthy. But as of yet, this is worse tham broadcast HD, and the successor to DVD needs to be at least equal, and preferrably superior.

I had no problems with playing it - I installed the damn IA player, making sure to tell it not to automatically play my DVD's or keep track of my actions. I let that thing get the DRM license for me and start the movie, then I killed it and ran the files directly.

"Playing this game is like having your eyes slit open with straight razors, filled with baby spider eggs, then re-sealed, and then being treated to the sensation of hundreds of tiny, venemous little arachnids bursting into being behind your pupils, consuming everything they can touch, and feeling...
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