Predator - Brian
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
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|Originally posted by Health Nut
Why? If VC-9 is included, and since some studios already have stuff in WMV-HD, why not start off with VC-9? In fact Microsoft is touting new workstations for VC-9 editing I believe...
|Originally posted by Dan Hitchman
But it really isn't the studios themselves (usually), but the production houses that they hire that use the equipment necessary to compress and master discs. Sony used to do their DVD production stuff in-house, but are now outsourcing to other facilitities, as one example.
|Originally posted by amillians
If by evaluate, you meant Sony said "There's no *&*^% way we'll work with MS," then yes, I guess they *did* evaluate it, albeit very, very briefly.
|Oh, come on, dislike has nothing to do with it...Fidler and his BIO were instrumental in holding back the evolution of BD this past year...Matsuda's in charge of promoting BD to the studios now, and it lives or dies with him, not Fidler. Fidler fell on the "MPEG2 Forever!" sword, so Matsuda got a clean start.|
|Huh?!? I guess that's why they've been so vocal on the need to choose the right *new* codec for whatever is to replace DVD...Sony, I mean the BDF, has no choice but to smell the coffee here, and guess what, they have, not that it will change anything.|
|Again, if HD-DVD would just poop or get off the pot wrt security, enough studios would get a warm fuzzy to reduce the looming format war to a brief DVD vs. DivX type skirmish worst case. Come on...the *last* thing the studio heads want is "true convergence between CE and IT," as the BDF incredulously proclaimed to all the world this year as a "plus" of BD. The studios are scared as *hell* of a movie disc that can even *fit* inside a PC.|
|Let's be honest: what's fueling a lot of animosity towards *both* sides here is the reality that AOD has been vieled in near secrecy since its inception (you don't have to show *me* the security spec, but at least show the studios!) and been dogged with a general misuderstanding of the performance of new codecs, while BD as a CE format has been all repositioning, missed deadlines and questionable politics. We're back to the MMCD vs. SD wars of 1994-1995, only this time it doesn't look like either side is going to budge...but of course, one will...eventually.|
|Matsu****a has DVD recorder for D-TV
$2,770 device can hold 4.5 hours of digital TV programing or 63 hours of analog programing
June 30, 2004: 10:02 AM EDT
TOKYO (Reuters) - Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co. Ltd., maker of Panasonic brand products, unveiled a DVD recorder Wednesday based on Blu-ray technology which can read and store data at the much higher densities needed for recording digital television programs.
The move gives Matsu****a (MC: down $0.31 to $14.29, Research, Estimates) an edge in the battle against a rival technology supported by fellow Japanese electronics makers NEC Corp (NIPNY: down $0.10 to $7.12, Research, Estimates). and Toshiba Corp.
The ability to record high-definition TV programs is becoming important as countries around the world are set to shift to digital from analog programming.
Recordable DVD discs compatible with Matsu****a's new recorder have a capacity of 25 or 50 gigabytes, compared with current 4.7 gigabyte discs. A 50-gigabyte disc can hold 4.5 hours of digital programming at the highest quality or 63 hours of analog programming.
Matsu****a is a member of a consortium that backs Blu-ray, which competes with another blue laser-based technology known as HD DVD. It is the second firm to launch a Blu-ray DVD recorder after Sony Corp (SNE: down $0.04 to $37.92, Research, Estimates). did so last year.
NEC and Toshiba, which back HD-DVD, have no plans to launch blue laser DVD recorders until 2005.
Blue light, with a shorter wavelength than the red laser used in conventional DVD recorders, can read and store data at the higher densities needed for high-definition recordings.
Matsu****a said the device is expected to be priced at about $2,770 and 50 gigabyte discs at about $70 each. The recorder is equipped with a built-in tuner for digital terrestrial and satellite broadcasting, as well as terrestrial analog broadcasting.
It will be introduced in the Japanese market on July 31 in time for the Aug. 13 start of the Olympics in Greece, which is expected to drive demand for digital televisions and DVD recorders. Matsu****a said it has no current plans to sell the DVD recorder overseas.
Japan has already started offering terrestrial digital television programming in its largest cities, while U.S. television stations are required by law to switch to digital signals by the end of 2006, when 85 percent of American homes will be able to receive the higher-quality, crisper signals.
Other companies that support Blu-ray include Korea's Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., the Netherlands' Philips (PHG: up $0.29 to $27.17, Research, Estimates) Electronics and U.S. company Dell Inc (DELL: up $0.02 to $35.67, Research, Estimates).
In the previous battle over home-use recording technology, Matsu****a and Sony, the world's top two consumer electronics makers, played their video cassette format off against each other, with Matsu****a's VHS triumphing over Sony's Betamax.
|Originally posted by EvanB
They better have HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players and recorders (with finalized specs.) down in the sub $1,000 level and much cheaper discs by the time they reach these shores or it won't matter because few will be sold.
Since HD-DVD is not a radically new system like Blu-Ray I think only greed would keep players and discs in the higher retail stratosphere upon roll out.
I do hope manufacturers get HD-DVD and Blu-Ray transports right the first time without buggy operations, chroma errors, macroblocking, etc. etc. that have plagued DVD's since day one (and mostly haven't been fixed yet!).
|Originally posted by Joe Murphy Jr
MGM has another suitor:
|Originally posted by Health Nut
1080p, (eliminating interlacing once and for all), Video Quality (including "what happens to the content between telecine and encode"), Audio Quality (providing lossless compression to provide identical to master quality and avoid 'which lossy codec degrades the least', New features (discrete side channels, discrete tactile transducer channels).
|Marvelous, I don't want to sound argumentative, but what have you got against HD-DVD? The reason I ask is I kind of had the same reaction on the other side of the fence, especially when it came to codecs, and many were against Microsoft.|
Like it or not, Sony is the flag bearer for Blu-ray. They've taken it upon themselves to serve as the driving force (heavy press, BIO, etc.), and for obvious reason...they have the most to gain--or to lose--with BD. And, like it or not, flag bearers have a bad habit of becoming lightning rods in stormy weather...
And, like it or not, Sony, er, I mean the BDF, pi$$sed off a lot of industry types by trying to play both sides of the field in The DVD Forum next generation format voting process. If Sony et all feel that The DVD Forum is passe and that the BDF/BDA is the future, they should step down...to maintain their passive/aggressive presence, without even ever formally submitting their spec for consideration (outside of physical application trials), is simply dirty politics. Force change from within or do an end run around the blockage...but don't try to do both, much less with a straight face.
|Sony is an easy target, I agree, but this time, I think they deserve the rebuke. Regardless of the pluses/minuses of BD vs. HD-DVD, dirty politics doesn't help win industry concensus, and only industry consensus is going to deliver a single format...and we all know that dual formats will be suicide. If Sony hadn't backed down in 1995 from it's ridiculously self-serving MMCD stance, we'd have seen two DVD wanna-be formats launched...and the success of "DVD" as we know it today would likely be radically different.|
|Sony, through CTS, is betting that their "we're going to release movies on BD-ROM no matter what even though we really haven't said what BD-ROM is going to be" stance is truly going to force the hand of every other studio to support BD in the interests of avoiding a costly and confusing format war...such strongarm tatics don't always work (hello? MMCD? is that you?). Sony et all had their chance to serve up BD in the proper forum; they declined to so do. We'll see what happens...too bad IBM won't step in, smack some heads around and save the day for consumers...again.|
|Originally posted by Marvelous
I haven't did any test concerning the PQ of any codec, but mpeg2 @ 24mbps with lossless audio is possible with blu-ray. That should provide outstanding PQ and superb audio, if anyone says different is just a fanboy.
|Originally posted by Marvelous
It's the same as holding positions on a VHS Commitee(if there is such a thing) and the DVD Forum. This is what people is failing to understand. Sony along with many other DVD Forum members is doing nothing wrong here, they should be able to keep their position because they have alot investing in current DVDs. I think the companies that joined the BDA did the correct thing by starting a group that specifically covers the next generation of movies and storage. NEC and Toshiba should have did the same thing, instead they are using the DVD Forum to milk their investment....I along with the majority of the DVD steering commitee at one time see no reason why Blu-ray should have been submitted to the DVD Forum.
|Originally posted by amillians
Ugh. Let's see--you say you haven't done any testing of any codec, but you're confident that MPEG2 "provide outstanding PQ" vis a vis other codec options at other rates, and that anyone daring to assert otherwise is a fanboy. Huh...so I guess that would make the BDA a bunch of fanboys right about now. The simple reality is that the BDF, under the direction of Sony and the extension of policy by Fidler, made a terrible political decision to back MPEG2 exclusively, and now they are going to fix that in the BD-ROM spec.
|Oh, puh-leez. Sony sits on The DVD Forum, the very same DVD Forum that in April 2002 created the WG-11 working group to assess the use of blue laser-based formats for creating the successor to red laser DVDs--the first step towards defining what would become HD-DVD. After the formation of the BDF in May 2002 (wow, what a coincidence!) Sony et all submitted BD to WG-11.
Sony *did* use The DVD Forum to try and get BD in the mix for testing for HD-DVD, but never stepped up to the plate for formal consideration, deciding after the review of WG-11 to instead do an end run around the political process, all the while maintaining their (non)voting status for HD-DVD selection. How can anyone in the world, outside of a Sony employee, not see that Sony was actively playing both sides of the fence? With WG-11, The DVD Forum elected to create HD-DVD, Sony knew that, and Sony and its BD partners were--at one time--active participants in The DVD Forum's quest to create HD-DVD. The AOD group played by the agreed upon rules and "won" by default, even despite the petty abstention strategy of the BDF gang.
|Let me make this clear: I have no hate for BD as a physical spec, I only have reservations for it as an application spec (we'll see). I also question the assumptions on BD manufacturing costs, but that's another topic. I just think that Sony has a history of unsuccesfully trying to cram it's "standards" down the world's throat (e.g., SACD, PDD, etc.), that another unsuccesful Sony "standard" in the face of the official HD-DVD standard will spell doom for a next generation movie delivery launch and that the BDF did a bad, bad thing. Dr. Bell, we need some heads smacked, please.|
|Back when the tested the codecs H.264 performed horribly compared to mpeg2, and while I haven't read the exact reports about vc-9 the BDF decided that it wasn't reasonable to implement because it didn't offer better benifits. Will the improved PQ be enough to get the new codecs approved? I don't know.
Also at worst you will get up to 24mbps mpeg2, how bad is that considering all the other pluses of the format?
|Physical Storage space of 50 Gig compared to 30 Gig is not a plus unless you care about recording MPEG-2. My overriding concern is for achieving the best playback media for Hollywood movies...|
|Originally posted by thebland
I am rooting for both...Let them both come to market. Other than the cost of buying 2 units, I see no disadvantage to this. Eventually, the better format will shake itself out and the other will wither. Going on theory and paper as to which will be better is fruitless. I want to see them both in my theater, then make a choice.
|I am rooting for both...Let them both come to market. Other than the cost of buying 2 units, I see no disadvantage to this.|
|Unless they cancel each other like SACD and DVD-Audio have effectively done.|