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post #1441 of 18952 Old 09-17-2004, 09:06 AM
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Thanks for the latest info Palladin, nice job.

IMO Sony should already be working on handing over distribution rights and settling other MGM/Warner Bros issues in exchange for a Warner BDA membership. Then HD DVD can sign up the next business day.

I'm not really worried about overpricing if only one format launches, there are too many companies involved here. If Sony wants to launch Blu-ray with a 2K$ player then I'm sure Samsung will be offering a nice player for 750$. They have to know by now that other than further studio support the key to mass market success is low prices.

I dread the thought of replacing my large DVD collection but strangely at the same time I can hardly bare to wait for a true high definition disc playback system to launch.
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post #1442 of 18952 Old 09-17-2004, 11:41 AM
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4K, I'm in the same boat...I dread replacing my collection, but I can't wait for a HD disk system. But I've come to the conclusion that I'm not gonna replace all of them. I can do without Fred Sanford in HD I guess.

"Feeling stupid? I know I am." Homer Simpson
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post #1443 of 18952 Old 09-17-2004, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JMPyle
I can do without Fred Sanford in HD I guess.
Wouldn't do any good in HD anyway - Sanford and Son was shot on video, not film. Best we could hope for would be the entire season on 1 disc. But alas, that won't happen....more money in separate releases

-> No longer looking for Hi-Vision LDs <-

(I buried that format finally)

www.16cylinder.com
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post #1444 of 18952 Old 09-17-2004, 01:22 PM
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Palladin, the deal was for $3 billion in cash to buy the studio, plus assumption of $2 billion in debt (all numbers rounded for simplicity). That's why some call it $3 billion and some call it $5 billion.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #1445 of 18952 Old 09-19-2004, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Hitchman
Mr. Doherty,

I do indeed hope that we don't have all these awesome options in the Blu-Ray spec. only to use the barest of minimums...

Fully optimized 1920x1080p video using 16 Megabits/sec or higher CBR MPEG-4 AVC High Profile or updated VC-1 codec (whichever one actually performs better, not which one has the cheaper usage fee), 24/96 or greater resolution, 8 channel discrete minimal; 100% lossless or uncompressed audio (bit-for-bit lossless is in a way better because we could have more channels and higher resolution using the same 18.3 Megabits/sec as uncompressed 8 channel PCM 24/96 when needed)
Done.:cool:

Seriously, though, even though we may have included all this wonderful potential into the standard, you understand this is up to the content authors, right? You're asking the wrong fellow.

And I assume you mean VBR, not CBR.

Quote:
DVD was a totally compromised product from the get go.
Now, come on, DVD is an unparalleled format (for SD). All standards development requires compromises, but I think DVD turned out pretty great.

Richard E. Doherty
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post #1446 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
you understand this is up to the content authors, right? You're asking the wrong felow.
In agreement with Dan, Richard, can you please address the Hollywood Advisory Comittee about the following issues as written below in the bottom line:
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post #1447 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RDoherty
Seriously, though, even though we may have included all this wonderful potential into the standard, you understand this is up to the content authors, right? You're asking the wrong fellow.
Don't forget 16-channel assignable MLP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And variable width aspect ratio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John
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post #1448 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 12:19 PM
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We certainly need more than "sound effects added to menu clicks" I mean that is really 'cute', but give me a break... it is time to make some advancements in surround/tactile, etc.

"Dollar per dollar, DVD sales are bringing in 30% more $$$ than theaters." The Home theater market must evolve separately than commercial theaters. Tactile transducers, bookshelf speakers, and amplification (particularly class D amps) are all reasonably affordable. The options to support more channels, discrete side channels, height channels, and limited bandwidth channels (tactile 1-500 Hz, two LFE) should be there.... (A DD 5.1 track is going to be on Blu Ray anyway for backward compatability)

Quote:
And variable width aspect ratio!!!
Sounds great.
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post #1449 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 12:40 PM
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You know, you could build a high-fidelity, ass-kicking, 12.4-channel speaker system based on compact monitors, in-ceiling speakers and subwoofers for under $3K. Some of these little speakers have better mid/treble than $5000+ flagship monitors from 5-10 years ago.

I saw that digital cinema gets 50% more business than the same movie showing on a film projector. So, studios should understand that improving the audio/video beyond home audio gear with more channels and better sound will bring in more viewers and more money.

John
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post #1450 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
In agreement with Dan, Richard, can you please address the Hollywood Advisory Comittee
Health Nut, I don't remember you backing me up when I said the exact same thing :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...53#post4362353
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post #1451 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 01:18 PM
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Anthony, don't you understand forum rules?

Section 5, paragraph 3 clearly states that:

"You may not agree on anything with anyone who disagrees with you in anyway until sufficient time has past that most people won't notice".

John
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post #1452 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 01:23 PM
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BTW, would it not make sense that (since Blu-ray just won) that you have a cinema standard where a one BD plays MPEG4 video at the 4K standard and a second BD plays the sync'd audio at 12.4 at up 24/192 resolution. A lot cheaper for studios than to send out reels or even HDs! Then you can port two discs down to HDTV/MLP standard on a single disc. 4K off of dual-BD should be equivalent HD at 9Mbp, but with 4 times the resolution which isn't bad. Of course, you could proably peak out the format to 54Mbps for 50% more data rate.

John
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post #1453 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 01:45 PM
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that is why I used -> :)
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post #1454 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 04:23 PM
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Actually, in the petition we drafted about 3 years ago now, we acknowledged back then that the studios, CEA, both have to be addressed. In this instance, Sony is both a studio (now bigger than ever) and a manufacturer, so whether we address the Blu Ray Alliance or the Hollywood Advisory Comittee, no doubt both companies should listen hard to this forum for consumer input. In fact, we, the participants on this thread should consider ourselves the Consumer Advisory Committee (CAC)

The CAC will remain in session here. We wish to participate formally in the HAC and BRA meetings.
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post #1455 of 18952 Old 09-20-2004, 04:53 PM
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Almost 1500 posts here and in the end there is nothing and we will gleefully accept what we are given.....

There are parts of the home theater experience we can control (equipment, acoustics, gray scale, etc.). This consumer advocacy seems to be that will do little to influence anything.

In the end it is about money. It is always about money. We have no vested interest and to that extent, we are powerless.

In a perfect world, we would be able to collectively consult. But this is business so we ill matter.

I don't care who wins, just get something out we can buy.

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1456 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 04:00 AM
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Blu-Ray Technical White Papers (including preliminary A/V specification).

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Section-13628/Index.html

1080p@23.976/24, DTS++, 6-channel 192/24 LPCM

No 480p, 1080p@25 or 1080p@30

Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #1457 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 05:08 AM
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Well..at least they allowed for 1080P @ 60 as well as their preferred 1080P 24sF....

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1458 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 06:16 AM
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Sorry, no 1080p@60. Neither MPEG-2: MP@HL or MPEG-4 AVC: HP@4.1 and MP@4.1
can do that.

Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #1459 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 06:41 AM
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Ron
Thanks for the link. I would hope that, if other investigated audio codecs aren't considered, the studios will deliver DTS++ for movie content. With video quality this high (assuming they use the 1080p@24 format on disc), it would be a shame not to get 7.1 discrete channels of audio to go with it.

The most efficient path is seldom a straight line.
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post #1460 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 08:15 AM
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In case anyone missed the story from the WSJ today, Sony is confirming Blu-Ray in the next generation console. However, it will not be out until 2005.

Quote:
Sony said it is also working on a completely new version of its PlayStation series of game consoles, which it hopes to unveil in 2005. The company gave few other details about this next-generation product except to say that it plans to adopt Blu-ray optical-disk technology for the device.
Later,
Bill
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post #1461 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 08:48 AM
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"which it hopes to unveil in 2005" is not the same as release for purchase in '05. I think the general consensus is that it will be available sometime in '06.
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post #1462 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 09:45 AM
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DTS with lossless compression included? What about DD lossless?
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post #1463 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dr1394
Sorry, no 1080p@60. Neither MPEG-2: MP@HL or MPEG-4 AVC: HP@4.1 and MP@4.1
can do that.

Ron
From page 17 of the link you initally posted

Quote:
[i]The video formats shown in Figure 3-3 can be used for MPEG video streams.
MPEG-2: MP@HL and MP@ML CODECS
MPEG-4 AVC: HP@4.1 and MP@4.1
Max. bitrate 40Mbps
HD 1920x1080x59.94-i, 50-i (16:9)
1920x1080x24-p, 23.976-p (16:9)
1440x1080x59.94-i, 50-i (16:9) MPEG4-AVC only
1440x1080x24-p, 23.976-p (16:9) MPEG4-AVC only
1280x720x59.94-p, 50-p (16:9)
1280x720x24-p, 23.976-p (16:9)
Video
SD 720x480x59.94-i (4:3/16:9)
720x576x50-i (4:3/16:9)
Ron, I apologise if I misuderstand your comment but doesn't the "1920x1080x59.94-i, 50-i (16:9)" line indicate that format is included or is that a codec other than the ones you specifically mentioned? VC-1?

ted
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post #1464 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 10:13 AM
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Thats an interlaced setting, not progressive, the -i = interlaced -p = progressive.
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post #1465 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 10:18 AM
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It states on page 7 of the article:

"The categorization
used in this Whitepaper does not represent the actual structure of BD-ROM nor does this Whitepaper provide
a description of the complete set of features supported by BD-ROM."

So not all hope is lost for 1080p60.

Oh, it also states that they are still investigating more audio codecs........possibly Dolby Digital Lossless?
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post #1466 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 10:48 AM
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I would say that the complete absence of any 1080p60 material is evidence enough that 1080p60 will not be added to the spec.

Michael
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post #1467 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sisaacs
Thats an interlaced setting, not progressive, the -i = interlaced -p = progressive.
To quote someone more astute than me:
DOH!

Guess I'll be looking into some reading comprehension classes.
;)

ted
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post #1468 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
the complete absence of any 1080p60 material is evidence enough that 1080p60 will not be added to the spec.
A marketer might look at that as a way to stand out from cable/satellite. Material could be produced for Blu Ray in 1080p60 if the standard was capable. 1080p30 and 1080p48 would also be nice capabilities. What can current HD-Cameras provide? Support of such bandwidth could make Blu Ray further stand out from the crowd. What HD cameras capture at 1080p60?
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post #1469 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 11:37 AM
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I've got something to add to the HD-DVD/BluRay specs:

What about a provision for 3-D HD encoding? Rather than the retro-fitted "squential field" method with current software (and shutter glasses) the HD medium should be designed to handle a two-channel video 1080 30P signal...which would use the same overal bandwidth as a 1080 60P one-channel video image.

-dave

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #1470 of 18952 Old 09-21-2004, 11:48 AM
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http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2255248&EDATE=

TOKYO, Sept. 21 /PRNewswire/ -- Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI),
announced today that it had begun preparations to adopt Blu-ray Disc ROM
(BD-ROM) format as a medium for the next generation PlayStation(R), the
successor system to PlayStation(R)2 computer entertainment system.
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20020701/SFM066LOGO )
Blu-ray Disc (BD) is a next generation high-density optical disc format
that enables recording and playback of digital high-definition (HD) video
signals and programs. BD-ROM format has a huge memory size of 54 GB (dual
layer, single side), which is 6 times larger than that of DVD-ROM, and has the
potential of becoming an ideal medium to distribute next generation
entertainment content from movies and music to computer applications.
Standardization of this format is currently underway lead by the Blu-ray Disc
Association (BDA).
MPEG2-TS, the signal compression technology used in Hi-Vision TV
broadcasting, is also used in BD, making it possible to reproduce extremely
high resolution HD video images. With the introduction of the latest
high-compression code/decode technology (MPEG4-AVC, VC-1), playback of
high-quality video images from HD video signals becomes possible even under a
low bit-rate environment. On the computer applications front, including video
games, the importance of a medium with the capability of storing huge amount
of data and programs is becoming greater than ever.
The adoption of DVD format in the PlayStation 2 computer entertainment
system played an important role in accelerating the fusion of music, movies
and computer entertainment. The huge installed base of PlayStation 2 has also
contributed to the expansion of DVD-Video. Likewise, through the adoption of
BD-ROM for the next generation PlayStation, SCEI aims to take part in the
development of a new market created by state-of-the-art technology.
Development of key devices, including a single optical pick-up that can
read data from all three formats of CD, DVD and BD, is already on-going within
the Sony Group. Research and development in optical disc technology with even
larger storage capacity, as well as mass production technology, are also
moving forward with high expectation.
With PlayStation, PlayStation 2 and PSP(TM) (PlayStation(R) Portable),
SCEI will continue to expand the market and create a new world of computer
entertainment.

About Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.
Recognized as the global leader and company responsible for the
progression of consumer-based computer entertainment, Sony Computer
Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) manufacturers, distributes and markets the
PlayStation(R) game console and PlayStation(R)2 computer entertainment system.
PlayStation has revolutionized home entertainment by introducing advanced 3D
graphic processing, and PlayStation 2 further enhances the PlayStation legacy
as the core of home networked entertainment. SCEI, along with its subsidiary
divisions Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc., Sony Computer
Entertainment Europe Ltd., and Sony Computer Entertainment Korea Inc.
develops, publishes, markets and distributes software, and manages the third
party licensing programs for these two platforms in the respective markets
worldwide. Headquartered in Tokyo, Japan, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. is
an independent business unit of the Sony Group.

NOTE: PlayStation, and the PlayStation logo, PS one and PS2 are
registered trademarks of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. PSP is a trademark
of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. All other trademarks are property of
their respective owners.



SOURCE Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.
Web Site: http://www.playstation.com
Photo Notes: NewsCom:
http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20020701/SFM066LOGO AP
Archive: http://photoarchive.ap.org PRN Photo Desk, 888-776-6555
or 212-782-2840
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