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post #1801 of 18952 Old 10-05-2004, 03:01 PM
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HD-DVD & Blu-Ray are "passe"..the new and future video storage king:

http://www.nature.com/news/2004/0409.../040927-3.html;)

Enduring reality; At least until something better comes along..
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post #1802 of 18952 Old 10-05-2004, 03:02 PM
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CEATEC 2004 AV Watch Blue ray/HD DVD news....
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...2fceatec02.htm
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post #1803 of 18952 Old 10-05-2004, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
HD-DVD & Blu-Ray are "passe"..the new and future video storage king:

http://www.nature.com/news/2004/0409.../040927-3.html;)
Sounds pretty cool, except:

"So far the researchers can't retrieve information from their disk fast enough for video footage. "We don't yet have a machine where you can put the disk in and play Charlie's Angels," Török says."

Gregg Plummer
Amplizone - a blog about the development of Amplio Audio's soundcard/amps
The Short History of Audio/Video Technology
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post #1804 of 18952 Old 10-05-2004, 03:58 PM
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Some day, they'll be able to store every movie and TV show ever produced in a fingernail clipping.

But for now, we only have plastic discs.
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post #1805 of 18952 Old 10-05-2004, 04:25 PM
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Palladin, given your violent agreement with me, I am checking the temperature in hell and it's 33 degrees and falling. :D

Alex, in all seriousness, thanks for your comments above on the manufacturing stuff. It would not surprise me to see the BluRay folks begin demanding that Sony get replicators on board and such given that Samsung et al. know that winning requires studio support and studios will want duplicated discs to sell to people.

Richard, it's like SAG, you need a unique name. So you are now Richard E. in my book. :D

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1806 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark,

You’ve got to decide between understatement and overstatement. :D

The ‘violent’ (?) agreement was based on the belief that it was the pretty much the only conclusion that anyone following the situation could reach, if that’s all HD-DVD could put on the table. But again, they really had little else they could offer at this juncture, due to the ‘cat and mouse’ of any supporting studios.

As to overstatement, the fact (as you’re well aware) is that we have actually agreed and supported each other on most of the HiDef dvd issues, as mirrored earlier in this thread, as well as a prior thread on the subject, despite the accuweather forecast.

___________________________________________
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post #1807 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 06:44 AM
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Thanks for CEATEC pointer, dch50!

Man, I thought the KES-200A was huge, but the Sony prototype CD/DVD/BD pickup is friggin enormous...this is the first time I've seen them side-by-side. Sony needs to get in touch with Sid and Marty Krofft and see if Dr. Shrinker is still working.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...2fceat2_14.jpg

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post #1808 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 06:56 AM
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greggplummer, et. al.
Yeah I was mentioning this new technology somewhat tongue-in-check...but of course, HD-DVD & Blue-Ray aren't set in stone yet either.

Just goes to show that neither HD-DVD, nor Blue-Ray, may survive/be viable for no more than a few years, with storage technolgies advancing at such a rapid pace these days. But they(HD-DVD & Blue-Ray) are the next "shippable" technology to consumers, apparently. Hopefully any new storage technology will at least be backward compatible with both "regular" DVDs and HD DVDs.

Actually, I think the future is "streaming" technologies for video/etc content....media will just be used for archival/etc purposes in perhaps 10 years, or so(maybe less). I.E. Content Distribution will be the new "King", supplanting the current "media" dominance/emphasis. So all the current "wars" over various media standards will be superfluous in the not to distant future. But, for here and now, the media battles rage on...

Enduring reality; At least until something better comes along..
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post #1809 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 07:24 AM
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but isn't that true for all techs?
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post #1810 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 08:42 AM
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AnthonyP,
Yes indeed, that is true for most technologies these days...it's just that the pace of change is coming faster, and faster. Look how long VCRs dominated, then DVD for just a few years(relative to VCR) now & HD DVD's lifespan will undoubtedly be even shorter. Makes trying to maintain a library of any media almost untenable.

That's why streaming of content is the future, in my opinon. How many physical media copies of certain movies/music does/will one have to have to stay current? If you simply stream the content (wired/wireless/satellite/etc) from major providers to some local home/vehicle/mobile "waystations", either in real-time, or locally stored (hard disk/etc) & you can move/distribute it easily (wirelessly) around your home/vehicle/etc then you're much better off. But how to do this without pay-per-view fees is the trick...probably some type of subscription service will be needed in an all-you-can-eat methodology, or some variants.

Perhaps some new nano/quantum storage technology will soon provide every consumer with a vast local "media-less" (Hard disk/etc based - athough I know hard disk is a media itself - but you know what I mean I hope) storage pool in their home/etc to store content that they've purchased. Or again, perhaps all content will be remote and just streamed as needed desired with no local content storage needed at all....hopefully with no pay-per onus though.

Actually, even current storage technolgies might suffice, for now, to enable major content providers to store all content for distribution to customers...we just need the bandwidth & robust mechanisms to distribute it; and some mutally acceptable payment scheme and we're there...and the technology/ability to do just this is getting real close.

Then people can own the content forever (or lease it?) and the behind the scenes content provider's storage technology (audio/video resolution too) will be transparant to the consumers... content distribution will be the new key/concern of those seeking content, and not some proprietary and constantly changing media formats.

Enduring reality; At least until something better comes along..
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post #1811 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 08:52 AM
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so you think apps don't change fast :) do you think the codec used to decode the movie you download today wont improve and you will need a new codec and new version of the movie
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post #1812 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 09:05 AM
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Being in the computer biz, yes I know apps change very fast too. But in a distribution centered methodology, Codecs, audio/video resolution technologies would also be in the realm/control of the content provider...not the consumer. Codec/etc changes wont affect content ownership.

The consumers of course, hopefully, would still be able to influence/promote new "quality" technologies by content provider service comeptition. In a distribution model the comsumer simply owns the content, with the behind scenes quality issues addressed centrally by competing content provider services - nothing(nothing much hopefully) would need to change on the consumer end...except their local reception and display/player components...but at least the content ownership "travels" with you technology-wise...

Enduring reality; At least until something better comes along..
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post #1813 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 03:00 PM
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Proponents of the Blu-ray disc standard for next-generation DVD players plan to release camcorders that will record on smaller versions of the discs as early as 2005, the Nihon Keizai Shimbun reported Thursday.
The Blu-ray Disc Association, which promotes the format, is expected to set technical specifications for Blu-ray discs in the first half of next year at the earliest, the report said.

Sony Corp., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. and Sharp Corp. plan to develop smaller discs than current Blue-ray discs before introducing camcorders that will use the smaller discs with a capacity of about 15 gigabytes, 40 percent less than standard Blue-ray discs, the report said.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/041006/kyodo/d85i4d980.html
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post #1814 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 05:01 PM
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Palladin:
"As to overstatement, the fact (as you’re well aware) is that we have actually agreed and supported each other on most of the HiDef dvd issues, as mirrored earlier in this thread, as well as a prior thread on the subject, despite the accuweather forecast."

I know, just having fun again.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1815 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 06:26 PM
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I'm not at all comfortable with the way DRM is going. Our privacy rights, fair use rights, etc. are quickly going down the tubes.

If DRM requires a phone jack for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players in order to get a license, lock a player to specific discs so you can't take a disc to a friend's house to play it, pay-per-play, etc. I will not buy into either format. It must be seamless and disc based just like DVD is now with all privacy issues resolved.

If draconion copy protection is applied that takes away consumer rights, then I would be willing to help lead the charge to kill both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray just as the internet killed that spawn of the devil, DIVX.
Certainly this is a huge issue. I totally agree. I just hope the studios don't forget that they are selling entertainment. If the product isn't 'fun' to use, people will find fun elsewhere. Let's face it, some people will stick to DVD and perhaps continue to upscale standard DVD if Blu Ray has 'draconian' copyprotection. This would be similar to CD/MP3 vs SACD/DVD-Audio.

This issue is *one* of the reasons SACD and DVD-Audio also are not doing well. It is not that MP3 is great, it is just that CD's can be purchased, honorably ripped for one's self, and then tagged lossless or uncompressed quality, make samplers, rate tracks, playlists, etc..!!!

DVD could continue to persist for a long time with lack of significant success of Blu Ray if any significant changes are made from DVD. In fact, there should be a way for us to have MORE digital rights, as the HD-DVD group suggested. The HD-DVD group has made comments about allowing digital right for the owner to make a backup copy, etc... A lot of people want to run their Blu Ray movies or DVD's from their server, particularly since hard drives are so cheaply available allowing for multi terabyte servers.

(P.S. I don't even have a phone jack. I have cable modem, sattelite, and cell phone. No POTS line in my house.)
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post #1816 of 18952 Old 10-06-2004, 10:19 PM
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Picture of AOD player from CEATEC

They were playing contents from FOX and MGM during the show.
The player only support H.264 currently. (They need a computer for VC-1 decoding and they do not support MPEG2).
Q3/2005 are expected to see the player on the market.


Toshiba AOD player
http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...041007dvd2.jpg

Sanyo AOD player:

http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...041007dvd3.jpg


AOD/DVD/CD pick up
http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...041007dvd4.jpg


AOD pc drive
http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...041007dvd5.jpg

HDPLEX
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post #1817 of 18952 Old 10-07-2004, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lymzy
Picture of AOD player from CEATEC

They were playing contents from FOX and MGM during the show.
The player only support H.264 currently. (They need a computer for VC-1 decoding and they do not support MPEG2).
Q3/2005 are expected to see the player on the market.
Here's the bablefish translation to the article lymzy is talking about, I'll let yall come to your own conclusion.

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish...410070103.html
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post #1818 of 18952 Old 10-07-2004, 08:12 AM
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Apologies if this has already been noted, I hav stopped reading this thread religiously.

Sony and Matsushita working on a mini-blu-ray disk based camcorder:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...rs-in-2005.htm

BB
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post #1819 of 18952 Old 10-07-2004, 01:50 PM
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Here's my daily news contribution

snibit from the article...

"The power game has already started," said Fumio Ohtsubo, president of Panasonic's AVC Networks division, which contributes about 20 per cent of Panasonic's US$79 billion ($117 billion) in annual revenue.

Ohtsubo said access to content would be the key to deciding which format won, and stressed the importance of getting the movie studios on side.

"Hollywood is very challenging. Sony already has MGM, we still have some human networking with Universal," he said of the Hollywood studio in which Matsushita still has a 5 per cent stake.

Software companies and the Hollywood studios are trying to keep their options open, afraid of backing a losing standard. "

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...ection=reviews
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post #1820 of 18952 Old 10-07-2004, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dch50
Here's the bablefish translation to the article lymzy is talking about, I'll let yall come to your own conclusion.
Thanks.

Here is more:

Sony BD-ROM player (not recorder)
http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/cgi-bin/...41007hdvd4.jpg

Blue ray DVD RW PC Drive by Pioneer (They hope the drive would be on the market by the end of 2005.)
http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...41007hdvd3.jpg

HDPLEX
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post #1821 of 18952 Old 10-07-2004, 09:43 PM
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OK, for those who didn't want to deal with Babelfish:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...pcworld/118099

Lot of impressive prototypes but no price or release dates yet.
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post #1822 of 18952 Old 10-07-2004, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dch50
"Hollywood is very challenging. Sony already has MGM, we still have some human networking with Universal," he said of the Hollywood studio in which Matsushita still has a 5 per cent stake.
"some human"?!? Sounds like said "human" has as much chance as Powell in France.......:) I'm sure he feels great with all the support back in Japan!

John
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post #1823 of 18952 Old 10-08-2004, 09:15 AM
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The hd-dvd group came out blazing at their ceatec lecture report in Japan. They had a better illustrated presentation with slides, simular to the blu-ray presentations. One the most intresting tidbits was a dvd/hd-dvd hybrid disc they're proposing. Heres the article...

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...2fceatec10.htm

Here's a link to a slide that is not shown in the article where they take a little pot shot at the blu-ray group.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...fceat10_14.jpg
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post #1824 of 18952 Old 10-08-2004, 10:16 AM
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I get this distinct feeling that HD-DVD is turning into a whipping stick for
keeping Sony honest with Blu-Ray. Something like HD-DVD becoming
the standard for the Far East and Blu-Ray for rest of the world. China
alone could support HD-DVD without western movie titles and the
hybrid HD/SD DVD would fit well into their markets. They did it with
VCD/SVCD, so this could work for them too.

b2b

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A Toshiba spokesman, said that "from an engineer's point of view, the Blu-ray is a masterpiece.."
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post #1825 of 18952 Old 10-08-2004, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dch50
"Hollywood is very challenging. Sony already has MGM, we still have some human networking with Universal," he said of the Hollywood studio in which Matsushita still has a 5 per cent stake.

Originally posted by Alimentall
"some human"?!? Sounds like said "human" has as much chance as Powell in France.......:) I'm sure he feels great with all the support back in Japan!
Please be kind. I am one of the humans. Our lab is located on the Universal Studios Lot.

Richard E. Doherty
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post #1826 of 18952 Old 10-11-2004, 06:55 PM
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JVC has joined the BDA. After looking around the BDA site I found this list of BDA companies which listed JVC (Victor Company of Japan) as a contributor.

After reading through this HD-DVD article I noticed this slide. On the third sentence from the bottom it says that AACS can "Unlock content by internet". Could this mean that HD-DVD will require you to unlock the discs using a internet based authorization method similar to DIVX?
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post #1827 of 18952 Old 10-11-2004, 07:07 PM
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Yeah but I think both of them may end up using AACS.

Are they really going to load up hardware costs with a modem or ethernet chip (relatively inexpensive but they can't assume people will have broadband) or Wifi?

I think that's a reach. If they have a requirement to put your player online and people don't have a phone jack or a home network, what are they going to do, say there is some content you won't be able to play?

They might have to offer a toll-free number where you talk to a human. But that just adds to costs too.
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post #1828 of 18952 Old 10-11-2004, 11:24 PM
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I can see it now. Both formats launch and both require internet access to unlock content. People will line up in droves to buy, oh yes indeed.

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Life is better in HD.
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post #1829 of 18952 Old 10-11-2004, 11:27 PM
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Unlocking content and playing it back might not be the same thing.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1830 of 18952 Old 10-12-2004, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Paul
JVC has joined the BDA. After looking around the BDA site I found this list of BDA companies which listed JVC (Victor Company of Japan) as a contributor.
This article just baffles me, I know blu-ray.com is unofficial but they have a pic of a JVC Blu-ray machine from CEATEC 2003...
http://www.blu-ray.com/images/recorders/jvc.jpg
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