72 HD-DVD titles for Xmas '05 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 11-29-2004, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Studios Strike HD-DVD Deals For Holiday 2005

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL November 29, 2004; Page B1

Excerpts:
With holiday shoppers gobbling up millions of popular DVDs over the weekend, Toshiba Corp. and three major movie studios are expected Monday to announce plans to make new high-definition DVDs available by Christmas 2005.

According to people familiar with the matter, the studios -- including Viacom Inc.'s Paramount, General Electric Co.'s Universal Studios, and Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. -- are planning to release up to two dozen titles each in time for next year's holiday season in the so-called HD-DVD format that is backed by a group of Toshiba-led partners.

The move shows that Hollywood is getting serious about moving ahead with the "next generation" DVD format, which it so far has been reluctant to embrace.

Although millions of Americans have yet to buy even a standard DVD player, Hollywood has been plotting the next generation of DVD for years. Until recently, studios figured they should delay the next generation for as long as they could, maximizing sales in the current format. But the studios have been speeding up their plans lately as sales of standard DVD players have tapered off. Amid signs that piracy is cutting into sales far more than predicted, the studios also reason that they should move more quickly toward the new technology because of its superior antipiracy features.


Thus, the studios want to get started making next-generation DVD a hot product for next Christmas and beyond. Such efforts are typically slow to bulid; the first year DVD players came out, only 300,000 players sold; studios anticipate a similarly slow pickup for next-generation DVD.


To get things going next year, the studios plan to offer what they expect will be top-selling new releases. That means special-effects packed movies aimed toward affluent men, perhaps films like Paramount's Steven Spielberg-directed "War of the Worlds," Universal's "Doom," and Warner Bros.'_"Batman Begins." Those are expected out next summer, in plenty of time to get on DVD by the holidays.


A holiday rollout is key, studios say, because that's the time when people are most likely to drop the big bucks needed to switch over to the new format. By next Christmas, an HD-DVD player should cost around $1,000. To work properly, it needs a pricey high-definition TV. By Christmas 2006, the prices are expected to drop to $500 for a player.

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post #2 of 30 Old 11-29-2004, 04:31 PM
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Heard that before!!!

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post #3 of 30 Old 11-29-2004, 05:56 PM
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With holiday shoppers gobbling up millions of popular DVDs over the weekend, Toshiba Corp. and three major movie studios are expected Monday to announce plans to make new high-definition DVDs available by Christmas 2005.
Ha! By that time Sony's Blu-Ray will have a pretty strong hold on the HD disc market...I think this is one war which Sony is going to win.
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post #4 of 30 Old 11-29-2004, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Sorel
Ha! By that time Sony's Blu-Ray will have a pretty strong hold on the HD disc market...I think this is one war which Sony is going to win.
Hope so!

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post #5 of 30 Old 11-29-2004, 06:17 PM
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Will the soundtrack be improved or is it just the picture quality. I assume the latter, but thought I'd ask anyway. Also, what is the new resolution?

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post #6 of 30 Old 11-29-2004, 06:29 PM
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I cannot post the link because I have newly registered after a long time away. However, if you go to Japantoday.com (nov 30 issue) There is an article about four studios supporting Toshiba HD-DVD. If this was already posted I apologize. Here is the text.


**TOKYO — Toshiba Corp said Monday it has won support from four U.S. film studios for its next-generation DVD format called HD DVD. The four studios are Paramount Pictures, Universal Pictures, New Line Cinema and Warner Bros Studios, the major Japanese electronics maker said.


HD DVD is a new high-definition DVD disc developed by Toshiba, NEC Corp and other companies. It is competing against a rival technology called Blu-ray Disc, promoted by Sony Corp, Matsushita Electric Industrial Co and others.

Toshiba plans to begin selling its first HD DVD products, a player and a recorder, in the fourth quarter of 2005, and a notebook personal computer with a built-in HD DVD drive at the end of the year, the company said.

In separate statements released the same day, the four Hollywood studios voiced support for the HD DVD format because of advanced cost performance and copyright protection.

Universal and Paramount said they will release titles in the HD DVD format during 2005 and in early 2006, respectively.

The Blu-ray group has won endorsement from such Hollywood studios as Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc, Metro-Goldwyn Mayer Inc and Twentieth Century Fox Film Corp. (Kyodo News)
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post #7 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Sorel
Ha! By that time Sony's Blu-Ray will have a pretty strong hold on the HD disc market...I think this is one war which Sony is going to win.
win with what?
what pre-recorded content is Columbia going to be offering?
The Big Hit?
Resident Evil 1 & 2?
Underworld?

its great that they now control the Bond movies and some really fine United Artist classics like The Apartment, West Side Story, Great Escape, etc, but apart from Bond and Spider-man, Sony doesn't really own all that much that can be considered a 'killer ap'.
in the absence of any competition, they could probably do well if everything were priced low enough- people would buy the stupidest films if the visual quality was there and they were priced equivilent to a sd dvd.
but as far as competing against the Warner catalog...and Paramount and Universal... and most likely Fox soon afterwards...sorry.
i just can't see it happening.
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post #8 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ckolchak
Sony doesn't really own all that much that can be considered a 'killer ap'.
in the absence of any competition, they could probably do well if everything were priced low enough- people would buy the stupidest films if the visual quality was there and they were priced equivilent to a sd dvd.
but as far as competing against the Warner catalog...and Paramount and Universal... and most likely Fox soon afterwards...sorry.
i just can't see it happening.
StarWars HD complete 6 movie box set... HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?

That could be a killer app.

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post #9 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rider
Studios Strike HD-DVD Deals For Holiday 2005

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL November 29, 2004; Page B1

Excerpts:
With holiday shoppers gobbling up millions of popular DVDs over the weekend, Toshiba Corp. and three major movie studios are expected Monday to announce plans to make new high-definition DVDs available by Christmas 2005.

According to people familiar with the matter, the studios -- including Viacom Inc.'s Paramount, General Electric Co.'s Universal Studios, and Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. -- are planning to release up to two dozen titles each in time for next year's holiday season in the so-called HD-DVD format that is backed by a group of Toshiba-led partners.

The move shows that Hollywood is getting serious about moving ahead with the "next generation" DVD format, which it so far has been reluctant to embrace.

Although millions of Americans have yet to buy even a standard DVD player, Hollywood has been plotting the next generation of DVD for years. Until recently, studios figured they should delay the next generation for as long as they could, maximizing sales in the current format. But the studios have been speeding up their plans lately as sales of standard DVD players have tapered off. Amid signs that piracy is cutting into sales far more than predicted, the studios also reason that they should move more quickly toward the new technology because of its superior antipiracy features.


Thus, the studios want to get started making next-generation DVD a hot product for next Christmas and beyond. Such efforts are typically slow to bulid; the first year DVD players came out, only 300,000 players sold; studios anticipate a similarly slow pickup for next-generation DVD.


To get things going next year, the studios plan to offer what they expect will be top-selling new releases. That means special-effects packed movies aimed toward affluent men, perhaps films like Paramount's Steven Spielberg-directed "War of the Worlds," Universal's "Doom," and Warner Bros.'_"Batman Begins." Those are expected out next summer, in plenty of time to get on DVD by the holidays.


A holiday rollout is key, studios say, because that's the time when people are most likely to drop the big bucks needed to switch over to the new format. By next Christmas, an HD-DVD player should cost around $1,000. To work properly, it needs a pricey high-definition TV. By Christmas 2006, the prices are expected to drop to $500 for a player.
Wow 1,000 bucks. That will be one tough pill to swallow. I'll use that 200.00 I would have spent on an upconvert to soften the blow...
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post #10 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 04:52 AM
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Two formats--this is stupid and will delay any serious implementation of HD-DVD. :(

My HT is an oldie but goodie!
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post #11 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 08:18 AM
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Let's hope for one winner and quick!

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post #12 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 08:37 AM
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Look at the manufacturers behind HD-DVD hardware: Toshiba, NEC, and I believe Sanyo (or is it Samsung)?

Look at the DVD players these guys have produced thus far. The worst in the industry.

Hopefully HD-DVD will lose simply because the hardware will suck.

I have far more faith in Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc. getting it right with BluRay.
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post #13 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanHouck
Two formats--this is stupid and will delay any serious implementation of HD-DVD. :(
I'm optimistic that this will push both sides to release a lot of movies quickly in order to establish themselves as the stronger player. We'll have to buy a couple players, but given a good competitive environment costs should be reasonable. I think, despite what they have said, that the price will be under a thousand for a pair of low end players when they are first released. The PS3 isn't going to be over $500, and HD-DVD can't charge more for a low end player alone then Blu-ray can for a low end player and a game console combined. Given that competition is going to go a long ways towards forcing the format's studio backers to release movies, including the good ones, I'm all for it.
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post #14 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanHouck
Two formats--this is stupid and will delay any serious implementation of HD-DVD. :(
I know this is the popular thinking, but if Sony wasn't working on BluRay I don't think we would see HD-DVD before 2007. I think they would continue milking regular DVD for quite a bit longer and that the only reason they are in a hurry is the competition. Much like the old Prisoner's Dilemna (as seen here) that keeps things moving along when collusion isn't allowed.

Just like I think if LCD had progressed faster it would have pushed TI to be further than they are (especially in resolution).

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post #15 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 03:54 PM
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more than that darin.
competition is good for us in several ways.
one is the release time as you post.
additional competition was also good for:
quality
price
availability of hd dvd players
availability of software
and much more........

so i don't know when i look into all issues(also the bad ones) i am not sure
if a format war the we will have for sure now is ONLY bad or it has also
some advantages for us.
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post #16 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 03:57 PM
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The "Christmas selling season" argument is very wrong IMHO.

When something goes mainstream, you want it to hit at Christmas, to be sure. But HD DVD (or Blu Ray) will hardly be mainstream when introduced.

$1000 players, 72 titles: that is not an appealing scenario for massive Christmas sales.

Better to release it in the spring, get some early adopters to buy into it and start talking it up, and plan for more massive sales 18-30 months later.

Even DVD, with its fast uptake, did not become a Christmas item for a few years. I believe it was Christmas 2000 when it took off. That was nearly 4 years after introduction.

These companies really need to understand the importance of the early adopters in their marketing. They would always like to bypass us, considering us fussy and difficult, but the fact is that we make or break the products.
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post #17 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 04:51 PM
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The entire Christmas revenue stream is not going to hit $10 million, including players, for next year.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #18 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rlsmith
These companies really need to understand the importance of the early adopters in their marketing.
Maybe that or maybe they know enough about marketing to promise dates even if they aren't likely to hit them. And if they do come out by next Christmas I think it will be more because of the race with BluRay than the Christmas season itself.

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post #19 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 06:55 PM
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Interesting thread about the same topic.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/archive/...p/t-32776.html

First off, I believe in Sony and its Blue-Ray campaign. Companies that signed up are also top notch companies. Including some major players in the computer industry. Therefore, BlueRay has more applications than what HD-DVD can offer right off the start. The additional raw storage space is certainly one major attraction. Hardware is expected to be released at the end of 2005. Among the releases, HP has also announced Blue-Ray enabled PCs by end of 2005.
http://www.blu-ray.com/

I also don't believe into that "HD DVD means less start-up manufacturing costs for content creators" blah-blah-blah crap. They've milked us enough with multiple releases of the same DVD movies, each time adding more "Bonus Features" to justify their re-releases. I think it's time our hard earned investments into these franchises start to pay back with contents that we really want. We're paying for it, are we not? :mad:

You can argue all you want about content and the latest movie companies that signed up for the HD DVD side. But lets not forget that Sony has deep pockets and many influential allies. Plus I'm sure the agreement is not written in stone and they can release Blue-Ray editions also if they wish later on. Content creators are, for lack of a better term, screwing themselves if they've committed this early in the game.

Sony is also releasing their PS3 units with BD-ROM already enabled. Think of the millions of units they'll sell to current PS2 owners at around $500 in 2006. Compare that to the expected $1000 HD DVD players release Christmas of 2005, and you get the picture. People aren't exactly going to buy up every $1000 HD DVD player come Christmas time.

Speaking of content, 20th Century Fox signed up for the Blue-Ray camp back in Oct 4, 2004. Can you say "Star Wars 6 Disc Saga : Blue-Ray Special Edition"? :D
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post #20 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adz523
Will the soundtrack be improved or is it just the picture quality. I assume the latter, but thought I'd ask anyway. Also, what is the new resolution?
Sound is the same as current standards, except there's more storage space for newer sound formats and contents. If Dolby & DTS decides to add more channels, Blue-Ray should be up to the task. My guess is they'll somehow think of putting some speaker channels on our ceilings to simulate sound flying above us, :D

HDTV is using DD as the standard, IIRC.

As for resolution, it should be 1080i, though they may release multiple versions of the same movie if they wish. A 720p and a 1080i version. Gives us fixed panel users some options, :)
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post #21 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 07:12 PM
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Souki, lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet. Blu-ray is a superior technology for one reason only (for movie viewing) and that's storage space. However, superior technology doesn't always win. And we have to look at the costs per GB for making prerecorded discs. As I said in another thread, nobody knows the cost for making blu-ray at production quantities. BDF can predict all they want, but studios can tell you predictions don't mean squat (look at all of the box office bombs). What HD-DVD has going for it is real world test runs and results.
If you give any executive in charge of the money, they would choose the side that had "real" results instead of predicted results.

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post #22 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 07:39 PM
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I just scanned this thread looking for the list. Where's the list? They've got a number and no list?

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post #23 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JHouse
I just scanned this thread looking for the list. Where's the list? They've got a number and no list?
Sucks doesn't it? That's what I originally did but it's not here.

Paul Seng
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post #24 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 07:43 PM
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Paul, I'm not predicting anything. There will be Blue-Ray hardware available by end of 2005. Plus, based on past track record, PS3 will not bomb. Meaning there will be millions of those units out there showcasing what Blue-Ray can do. You can't deny the interest. I for one, will probably invest in a $500 PS3 before paying $1000 for any DVD player on the market. Especially if the content is available.

And when it comes to storage medium, size does matter. Exactly how much does it cost to press a DVD, btw? Less than $2?? How much does it cost to press an audio CD? 50 cents?? These guys make billions off us. As a consumer, I don't really care how much it costs them to make the products, they're going to milk us anyway with multiple releases, just as long as they release what we want.

My only prediction is, worst case scenerio, there will be two successor to the current DVD format. Either that or we may be looking at another Beta vs VHS format war controlled, not by the content creators, but by consumers. In which case, based on history of the reason why VHS won, storage space will be key.
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post #25 of 30 Old 11-30-2004, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by thirdkind
Look at the manufacturers behind HD-DVD hardware: Toshiba, NEC, and I believe Sanyo (or is it Samsung)?

Look at the DVD players these guys have produced thus far. The worst in the industry.

Hopefully HD-DVD will lose simply because the hardware will suck.

I have far more faith in Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc. getting it right with BluRay.
The irony is that the Blue-Ray companies may make better HD-DVD players than the HD-DVD supporters, assuming HD-DVD gets the nod to claim its victory as the successor to the current DVD standard.
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post #26 of 30 Old 12-01-2004, 06:07 AM
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Can I be the first person to dub the UAV (Universal Audio (SACD/DVDA) Video (HD-DVD/Blu-Ray)) player for a whopping $8000 MSRP!!!
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post #27 of 30 Old 12-01-2004, 07:22 AM
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Souki, past history in the gaming market also notes that the king before sony was Sega and before that Nintendo. There is always someone waiting in the shadows. I am not knocking the PS at all. I have one and two. I also have an Xbox. and a gamecube. I however, do try to get XboX games first because they look better on my 150" screen. If I had to choose one of these 3 boxes to keep it would be the Xbox. Halo2 sales have broken records(even with far fewer boxes out there). If MS comes out with their console first with 10-20 titles that blow away the first xbox games, and with an HD-DVD, yes, I believe there will be much more competition than before. (remember xbox came out almost 2 years after the PS2).

As for manufacturers and which ones are great. I have the first Toshiba one in my bedroom. And it is still working. My mother had a pioneer elite model that quit on her after 1 year. And now other companies are coming into the fray like Bravo and Apex that just work and they're not expensive at all. Also , if I remember correctly, the first Xboxes had problems with their DVD drives, and they were made by either thomsen or philips.

edit: I forgot to add that there is a long hard fought battle going on between the two camps. If it was that easy to dismiss one side it would have been done. However, being as we are not in the boardrooms or engineering meetings, we don't know what is happening. However, I am leaning towards HD-DVD just because I do like Toshiba over Sony. I like NEC products over Philips. But if blu-ray wins then I will buy the player eventually. As for game consoles I already said I like XBOX better, not because of the dvd drive in it, but because I like their games, controlllers and their support for HDTV's. I can only imagine that their next console will be even better.

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post #28 of 30 Old 12-01-2004, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul_Seng
Souki, past history in the gaming market also notes that the king before sony was Sega and before that Nintendo. There is always someone waiting in the shadows. I am not knocking the PS at all. I have one and two. I also have an Xbox. and a gamecube. I however, do try to get XboX games first because they look better on my 150" screen. If I had to choose one of these 3 boxes to keep it would be the Xbox. Halo2 sales have broken records(even with far fewer boxes out there). If MS comes out with their console first with 10-20 titles that blow away the first xbox games, and with an HD-DVD, yes, I believe there will be much more competition than before. (remember xbox came out almost 2 years after the PS2).

As for manufacturers and which ones are great. I have the first Toshiba one in my bedroom. And it is still working. My mother had a pioneer elite model that quit on her after 1 year. And now other companies are coming into the fray like Bravo and Apex that just work and they're not expensive at all. Also , if I remember correctly, the first Xboxes had problems with their DVD drives, and they were made by either thomsen or philips.

edit: I forgot to add that there is a long hard fought battle going on between the two camps. If it was that easy to dismiss one side it would have been done. However, being as we are not in the boardrooms or engineering meetings, we don't know what is happening. However, I am leaning towards HD-DVD just because I do like Toshiba over Sony. I like NEC products over Philips. But if blu-ray wins then I will buy the player eventually. As for game consoles I already said I like XBOX better, not because of the dvd drive in it, but because I like their games, controlllers and their support for HDTV's. I can only imagine that their next console will be even better.
I'll quote this quickly as to not put this off topic too much.

- Sega went downhill since they released their over priced 32X expansion.
- PS2 was released in 2000. XBox and Game Cube released in 2001
- XBox is just a PIII with a 16x DVD drive and nVida GeForce3 GPU.
- Halo 2 on an HTPC running at 1600x1200 via DVI is "amazing". Of course you can also use 1280x720 or 1920x1080 if your system can handle it.
- There are still '67 Chevy trucks running til this day, yet I still prefer the 2005 F-150.
- All future gaming consoles will support HDTV
- PS still has many more games than XBox worldwide.

But I do believe in a healthy competitive environment. Microsoft selling their XBox units at a loss help keep PS & GameCube prices down.

On their next console, Microsoft appears on planning to move into the home PC market as well...

"According to a report in The Inquirer, a questionable Web tech tabloid, Microsoft will ship three different versions of its next Xbox video game system, which is currently (and logically) code-named Xbox Next. The British online publication, which inexplicably refers to Microsoft as "the Vole" (no, I don't get it either), says that Xbox Next will ship in the following three versions: Xbox Next, a basic console with no hard drive; Xbox Next HD, which will include a hard drive; and Xbox Next PC, which will be a fully functional PC with Media Center and Xbox gaming capabilities. The first two units will ship in 2005, the site says, with the Xbox Next PC shipping in 2006, possibly alongside Longhorn. Is it all true? I have no idea, but it sounds cool at the very least. Microsoft is expected to announce its plans for Xbox Next at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in January 2005, so we'll know soon."

Good o'Microsoft..

Anyway, it's good news that those four companies signed up with HD-DVD because it would only force the Blue-Ray side to start pushing forward for an earlier release. This is probably one main reason why Sony bought MGM. Since XBox is using HD-DVD & PS is using Blue-Ray, it would be interesting to see the end result if only one format wins. The other will strictly be limited to gaming, not HD movie content.

Btw, NEC is also planning to release HD-DVD drives in their desktop/laptop lineup in 2005. I can only assume Toshiba will follow.

As with all past products history, consumers decide what will succeed, not executives or engineers. If we see a dual format release, Blue-Ray has one advantage already. Storage space. In fact, Sony demonstrated an 8-layer 200GB Blue-Ray system. No need to flip discs for 3+ hour movies and bonus materials. Sorry, some of us are just too lazy to get up and swap the disc in a middle of a movie. :D

One final note, if either camp wins, anyone else thinks there will be room for dual format players, like DVD±?
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post #29 of 30 Old 12-01-2004, 04:05 PM
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Souki, only time will tell. All I am saying is that blu-ray did not win anything as of yet and to already count your chickens with the PS3 before it is released is pure suicide.

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post #30 of 30 Old 12-01-2004, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JHouse
I just scanned this thread looking for the list. Where's the list? They've got a number and no list?
Yeah an actual list of titles would be beneficial in taking a wild guess if anyone will bite. I do like the sound of $1000 players though. Still Blu-ray is the future so all this is moot. I think we all know that Universal and Paramount will likely support both formats. Warner may start with HD-DVD but they'll join Blu-ray at some point.
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