Why Blu-ray is a better format than HD-DVD - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 10:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a list of why I believe that Blu-ray is better format than HD-DVD.
  1. Blu-ray players will support 50 GB discs for all three versions of the format (ROM, RW, R). That alone is a pretty big advantage in my opinion since the first HD-DVD players from Toshiba won't even support HD-DVD-RW.
  2. Blu-ray discs require a hardcoat that makes them more durable than DVD. This can of course be put on pre-recorded HD-DVD discs as well but that quite simply won't happen since it would take away much of the cost advantage that is the sole reason HD-DVD exists.
  3. Blu-ray will have a higher maximum read rate of 12x while HD-DVD will be limited to 8x (with x being equal to 36 Mbps). That may not sound much now but for computer and gaming purposes that will be rather significant in the future. The reason for this is because at any RPM speed Blu-ray will read data 50% faster than HD-DVD can.
  4. The majority of CE manufacturers are behind Blu-ray, which will give consumers a good number of player/recorder choices.
  5. Because their is good reason to believe that Blu-ray will get 100% studio support while that is unlikely to ever happen with HD-DVD.
  6. The number of announced movies for Blu-ray is greater than HD-DVD.
  7. BD-J is a better interactive layer than iHD.


I might as well take care of some of the standard responses that HD-DVD supporters have brought up in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1
No studio needs more than 30 GB for a movie.
Which of course ignores that Disney has previously said that it wants 50 GB discs and ignores the fact that in the future their will be HD movie extras. And of course when you throw in HD TV series boxed sets the more capacity the better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2
Blu-ray discs are expensive.
Which using the same logic would have also been an argument against DVD discs when they were first released. Long term though Blu-ray discs prices will come down and 5 years from now most people will wonder why any company made HD-DVD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3
No hybrid discs.
True, though a DVD movie would not look that good on single layer DVD and restricting the HD-DVD layer to 15 GB is not exactly a good idea either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4
Many of the first Blu-ray discs will be in MPEG-2.
Which is based on the decision of the studio and not of the format. This would be like arguing against HD-DVD because most of the studios supporting it are for downconversion over component video.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5
BD-J will not be stable since it is based on Java.
In my opinion this is a bold faced lie and I find it amusing that Microsoft is still trying to spread this nonsense. Granted BD-J is more complicated than iHD but that is because the former is a programming language while the other is not. In the long run a programming language such as BD-J is going to be a heck of a lot more useful as an interactive layer. Already from what I have read the BD-J demo game used on the "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" Blu-ray disc was better than anything shown using iHD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 6
Microsoft says that HD-DVD has MMC.
True, but Blu-ray has MMC as well and they have publicly said that on November 16 of last year. For several months last year Amir blasted away at Blu-ray about this, but he suddenly stopped after the BDA announced that Blu-ray would have MMC. As such I think I can safely say that both formats support it and anyone that says otherwise is either trying to cause trouble or is using really old information.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 7
The PS3 will be the only low cost Blu-ray player for 2006.
This has always surprised me since that does not seem in my opinion to be much of a negative. If the PS3 comes out at $500, or less, than it will be a far better value than even Toshiba's $500 HD-DVD player. Now how much better it will be is a good question, but we know for a fact that the PS3 can output 1080p over HDMI.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 8
The PS3 may not be made in large enough quantites for demand.
Now that I agree that could be a problem but if that is the case than it means that a heck of a lot of people will end up with PS3 consoles in their homes.
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post #2 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Here is a list of why I believe that Blu-ray is better format than HD-DVD.
  1. Blu-ray players will support 50 GB discs for all three versions of the format (ROM, RW, R). That alone is a pretty big advantage in my opinion since the first HD-DVD players from Toshiba won't even support HD-DVD-RW.
  2. Blu-ray discs require a hardcoat that makes them more durable than DVD. This can of course be put on pre-recorded HD-DVD discs as well but that quite simply won't happen since it would take away much of the cost advantage that is the sole reason HD-DVD exists.
  3. Blu-ray will have a higher maximum read rate of 12x while HD-DVD will be limited to 8x (with x being equal to 36 Mbps). That may not sound much now but for computer and gaming purposes that will be rather significant in the future. The reason for this is because at any RPM speed Blu-ray will read data 50% faster than HD-DVD can.
  4. The majority of CE manufacturers are behind Blu-ray, which will give consumers a good number of player/recorder choices.
  5. Because their is good reason to believe that Blu-ray will get 100% studio support while that is unlikely to ever happen with HD-DVD.
  6. The number of announced movies for Blu-ray is greater than HD-DVD.
  7. BD-J is a better interactive layer than iHD.
LOL, this is so Richard. This time you even start a new thread, however without anything new. Are you nervous or what? Seeing the major retailer chains are going to support HD DVD opposite to your wish? Seeing the movie studios are actually going to release HD DVD opposite to your wish?

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post #3 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 10:40 PM
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Great stuff. :)

As was pointed out in another thread, the Digital Bits guy today said:

Quote:
the buzz at CES 2006 was all about Blu-ray Disc. For virtually everyone I spoke with, from hardware reps to studio execs to random, run-of-the-mill attendees on the convention floor, Blu-ray had people talking. I have to tell you this as well: Having seen all the displays, talked the tech and kicked the tires a little bit, Blu-ray Disc has me genuinely excited again
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
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post #4 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy
Seeing the major retailer chains are going to support HD DVD opposite to your wish? Seeing the movie studios are actually going to release HD DVD opposite to your wish?
This is so funny. You guys have had to go from:

"HD DVD is so easy to implement that we will get a big head start on the competition, perhaps a year early."

to

"Stores are actually going to sell HD DVD movies!"

Sad.
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post #5 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 10:47 PM
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Rebuttals

1. I'm happy with 30GB. It allows for the occaisional 4hr movie.

2. Yes it "requires" the spincoat or your precious data is potentially damaged
because of the extremely thin .1mm protection layer. I'll take .6mm thank you.

3. Games will eventually employ something like MMC which will ameliorate any optical slowdowns. Not a huge issue at all

4. Choices are only good if there is aggresive pricing. Having 6 $1k blu ray players doesn't do my pockebook any better.

5. A statement so preposterous it doesn't deserve an answer. Nothing is absolute.

6. Blu Ray as announced a bunch of crappy movies with a few good ones tossed in. No thanks

7. The hottest thing in programming right now is XML and javascript. Java has its place but I like what i'm hearing from iHD. I don't want to have to compile anything to preview my work.

Blu Ray is too expensive. The HD supporters on this site have said that ad naseaum and even after CES where you find that entry into BD is 2x that of HD DVD you all chose to employ your very own Reality Distortion Field (RDF) to hide the fact that the BDA got thumped at CES 2006.

I do marketing in Best Buy, Circuit City and other local retailers in WA and I can tell you that once people see $1000 Blu Ray players against $499 HD DVD players you're going to have a very difficult sell job. Pray the PS3 isn't delayed.
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post #6 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 10:51 PM
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I would change
5 from

Quote:
Because their is good reason to believe that Blu-ray will get 100% studio support while that is unlikely to ever happen with HD-DVD.
to
while that is unlikely to happen soon with HD-DVD

there is always the slightest possibility that HD-DVD and if it wins the remaining studios won't have a choice
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post #7 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Semblance
Great stuff. :)

As was pointed out in another thread, the Digital Bits guy today said:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Geez, this is the third or fourth time I saw this today. I still have not seen where is the buzz of bluray. Mock-up machine? MPEG2 demo with artifacts even on a PDP? OK, you got me on the Panasonic machine. :)
http://www.pbase.com/image/54611190.jpg

This thing would certainly generate some buzz!

As to the rest of your post, pardon my failure English. You completely miss my point.

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post #8 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 11:02 PM
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Again Bill Hunt has been marketing Blu Ray for a while.

He's certainly not impartial.

Frankly I don't care what insiders think. If you're not talking to consumers about CE on a daily or weekly basis then chances are you haven't got the foggiest idea what they'll pay for and what they wont

$1000 BR players aren't going to fly when you have a half price competitor sitting over in the next aisle.
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post #9 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Again Bill Hunt has been marketing Blu Ray for a while.

He's certainly not impartial.

Frankly I don't care what insiders think.
I really don't care if Bill Hunt is biased or not. What I do care is whether they could provide some inside juicy stuff to back up their claim. I see no such inside stuff from Bill Hunt except opinions. Sadly, it got quoted again and again. Maybe that is another proof of the underdelivered job by Bluray in this CES.

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post #10 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy
LOL, this is so Richard. This time you even start a new thread, however without anything new.
lymzy, I still see people asking the same questions about Blu-ray such as whether or not it can do MMC, which was made in another thread only a few hours ago. As such I decided I might as well make a thread about Blu-ray and answer a few questions about it since a lot of misinformation keeps getting spread about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy
Are you nervous or what?
Not at all lymzy, but I am sick of the lies that several HD-DVD supporters keep spreading about Blu-ray in other threads.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy
Seeing the major retailer chains are going to support HD DVD opposite to your wish? Seeing the movie studios are actually going to release HD DVD opposite to your wish?
This is it? lymzy, for someone that is so quick to be rude I think you sometimes forget that more is needed in a debate. As for major retail chains selling HD-DVD players that is not really surprising since they will sell most anything. And as for studios releasing on HD-DVD the exclusive movie list for the major 6 studios currently stands at 40 for Blu-ray and 19 for HD-DVD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
1. I'm happy with 30GB. It allows for the occaisional 4hr movie.
True, as long as the movie doesn't have a lossless audio track or any extras on it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
2. Yes it "requires" the spincoat or your precious data is potentially damaged because of the extremely thin .1mm protection layer. I'll take .6mm thank you.
That is not really a rebuttal. Also did you know that HD-DVD will suffer from scratches easier than DVD does?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
3. Games will eventually employ something like MMC which will ameliorate any optical slowdowns. Not a huge issue at all
That is certainly not realistic and not much of a rebuttal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
4. Choices are only good if there is aggresive pricing. Having 6 $1k blu ray players doesn't do my pockebook any better.
Competition is not only about prices but also about features as well and so far certain players like the Pioneer Blu-ray player have features that are truly innovative. As for a low cost Blu-ray player, besides the PS3, we will have to wait and see.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
5. A statement so preposterous it doesn't deserve an answer. Nothing is absolute.
Which is why I said unlikely to ever happen. Also I notice you did not actually disagree with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
6. Blu Ray as announced a bunch of crappy movies with a few good ones tossed in. No thanks
A poor rebuttal since that is based on personal movie taste and not the reason I stated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
7. The hottest thing in programming right now is XML and javascript. Java has its place but I like what i'm hearing from iHD. I don't want to have to compile anything to preview my work.
hmurchison, to use one of your own phrases that is preposterous. If you know anything about programming you should know that having a full programming language is far better than a markup language. BD-J will be able to do things that will be literally impossible to do with iHD and will make a far better choice for an interactive layer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Blu Ray is too expensive.
If the PS3 is $500 or less than will you re-consider supporting Blu-ray ;)?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP
there is always the slightest possibility that HD-DVD and if it wins the remaining studios won't have a choice
Perhaps, but I think that it is unlikely that either Sony or Fox will ever support HD-DVD. Unlikely of course does not mean the same thing as never.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy
Geez, this is the third or fourth time I saw this today. I still have not seen where is the buzz of bluray.
Seriously lymzy do you not believe any of the reasons I listed for why Blu-ray is better?


Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy
Mock-up machine? MPEG2 demo with artifacts even on a PDP? OK, you got me on the Panasonic machine. :)
The Panasonic machine may not look that good with those fans on the back, but it is still better than the empty box shown for the $500 Toshiba HD-DVD player.
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post #11 of 57 Old 01-08-2006, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy
I really don't care if Bill Hunt is biased or not. What I do care is whether they could provide some inside juicy stuff to back up their claim. I see no such inside stuff from Bill Hunt except opinions. Sadly, it got quoted again and again. Maybe that is another proof of the underdelivered job by Bluray in this CES.
True! Be biased all you want I don't care I'm going to own both formats but please back up your statements. I think we all just want to point to someone a little more "known" as proof of our own claims. It's only natural.
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post #12 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 06:19 AM
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Perhaps, but I think that it is unlikely that either Sony or Fox will ever support HD-DVD. Unlikely of course does not mean the same thing as never.
agree, just said how I would word it. I think it is both stronger and weaker then what you said. Let's face it, HD-DVD would need to be a major force on the market to get Sony and Fox support and even then I think BD would need to be dying. My guess, even if everything goes extremely well for HD-DVD and bad for BD I don't see it happening for at least 2-3 years, and that is a best case scenario for HD-DVD.

the way you stated it, it looked to me like a polling result where they say X is true 18 times out of20, extremely hard conclusion "not going to ever happen with HD-DVD" peppered by unlikely leaving the possibility (back door) that the conclusion is wrong. It also does not say anything about the scenarios if they get 100% (i.e. is there even a possibility for 100% in a month? a year?)
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post #13 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
True! Be biased all you want I don't care I'm going to own both formats but please back up your statements. I think we all just want to point to someone a little more "known" as proof of our own claims. It's only natural.
Why don't you post your proof that Bill Hunt is a Blu-Ray shill, with context? You keep on making this claim.

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post #14 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 10:59 AM
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cheaper prices will win the format war! and so far that's HD-DVD!

Funny how sony says price will not win the format war, my will they eat their words on that one;)
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post #15 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 11:10 AM
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You keep on saying that, but almost everywhere I turn, I see people adopting a "wait-and-see" attitude. When you have no time advantage, giving your competitors space to realign their financial goals is not the best idea. Early adopters usually rank price lower on their standards than features and industry support, and are far more likely to research than impulse buy.

And if you still think that cheaper prices will win a war, I need only point you to the iPod. It's more expensive than almost every other comparable model of portable music device, but is still wildly popular. It may soon be more popular than the rest of the portable music device industry combined.

EDIT: I also forgot the Sega Dreamcast. It had more than a year's headstart and was $100 cheaper than the PS2. Which do you think sold 10 million units and was discountinued in 2001, and which has sold (and is still selling) more than 100 million units and was still mentioned in a keynote a couple of days ago?

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post #16 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
lymzy, I still see people asking the same questions about Blu-ray such as whether or not it can do MMC, which was made in another thread only a few hours ago. As such I decided I might as well make a thread about Blu-ray and answer a few questions about it since a lot of misinformation keeps getting spread about it.

.

Too much to respond to on my lunch break, (although I don't disagree with all of it) so I'll only take this one chunk.

BD says they do support MMC. HD DVD says BD doesn't. There's no reason to blindly accept either sides version as the truth. Since AACS's MMC policy isn't fixed yet, no one knows what exactly it's going to be. It very well could be that BD doesn't support the version of MMC that HD DVD advocates, while it does support it's own definition of MMC.

If BD were able to push through a looser version of MMC for the final AACS spec, there could indeed be a difference between the two formats regarding MMC. BD, which only requires MMC support according to AACS guidelines, and HD DVD which requires not only AACS level of support, but additional support according to HD DVD specs.

You may feel the MMC question has been answered, but I don't. Just saying you support MMC without saying what you mean by MMC doesn't end the issue. And just because both formats are requried to follow AACS, doesn't mean that they will impliment it the same way, or that it will require MMC to be adompted in the way that most people understand it.

An example: AACS gets finalized, and only requires studios to support it, but doesnt say anything about how much they charge for the copy. BD only requires that level of compliance, and thus they may charge $100 for a copy. Meanwhile, HD DVD could have a requirement that studios may only charge up to the retail value of the disc for a copy. This would be a requirement above and beyond AACS.

That is an example, not to be taken as something I see as likely. I'm just point out how the two formats could have different definitions of MMC, and impliment MMC in a different way. There are several different examples I could use, but I am not claiming any of them are the case. I am just pointing out that the issue is not dead.
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post #17 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 11:56 AM
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Your dilusional i'm a realistic!

Coming from an average consumer like myself Price is very important to my decision making.

The problem with blu-ray's price structure is that's it's targeted to the videophiles and not at the average consumer J6p.

This where HD-DVD will succeedd in price, headstart, and name alone! People will see blu-ray and think what's that a fish?lol

This war will be a good one,and i'll just LMAO if blu-ray actually tanks even though it has the support this time.
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post #18 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBlacklow
You keep on saying that, but almost everywhere I turn, I see people adopting a "wait-and-see" attitude. When you have no time advantage, giving your competitors space to realign their financial goals is not the best idea. Early adopters usually rank price lower on their standards than features and industry support, and are far more likely to research than impulse buy.

And if you still think that cheaper prices will win a war, I need only point you to the iPod. It's more expensive than almost every other comparable model of portable music device, but is still wildly popular. It may soon be more popular than the rest of the portable music device industry combined.

EDIT: I also forgot the Sega Dreamcast. It had more than a year's headstart and was $100 cheaper than the PS2. Which do you think sold 10 million units and was discountinued in 2001, and which has sold (and is still selling) more than 100 million units and was still mentioned in a keynote a couple of days ago?
Your dilusional i'm a realistic!

Coming from an average consumer like myself Price is very important to my decision making.

The problem with blu-ray's price structure is that's it's targeted to the videophiles and not at the average consumer J6p.

This where HD-DVD will succeedd in price, headstart, and name alone! People will see blu-ray and think what's that a fish?lol

This war will be a good one,and i'll just LMAO if blu-ray actually tanks even though it has the support this time.
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post #19 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
And if you still think that cheaper prices will win a war, I need only point you to the iPod. It's more expensive than almost every other comparable model of portable music device, but is still wildly popular
I would disagree. The assumption is Apple is always more expensive than the competition. However if you look at *cough* Cnet's best of CES 2006 portable player they gave the nod to the Creative Zen M which is $330 to the iPods 299. Of course they'll ramble on about FM tuner, voice recording and the like the the reality is that many players are having a hard time competing with the iPods on price so they toss in a bunch of items to try and stand out.

I agree fully that the cheaper format will eventually take a lead. When everything has been fairly normalized in a product consumers will then move quickly to price.

Thus, as long as HD DVD has a good catalog of titles they stand the chance of going home with a consumer if their pricing is cheaper. Early Adopters are the "I gotta have it now" crowd but critical mass is needed for long term survival and that's the Target, Walmart crowd.
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post #20 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 12:07 PM
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Agreed!
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post #21 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
I would disagree. The assumption is Apple is always more expensive than the competition. However if you look at *cough* Cnet's best of CES 2006 portable player they gave the nod to the Creative Zen M which is $330 to the iPods 299. Of course they'll ramble on about FM tuner, voice recording and the like the the reality is that many players are having a hard time competing with the iPods on price so they toss in a bunch of items to try and stand out.
I see that, in addition to ignoring the Dreamcast, you totally discount extra functions equalling extra cost, and the huge number of companies other than Creative (did you see the "almost" in my post?) that have portable music products. But I'll let you play by your own rules.
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Thus, as long as HD DVD has a good catalog of titles they stand the chance of going home with a consumer if their pricing is cheaper. Early Adopters are the "I gotta have it now" crowd but critical mass is needed for long term survival and that's the Target, Walmart crowd.
So are you saying then that you believe that Blu-Ray will never have comparable prices? Are you also stating that HD-DVD has a larger pool of titles to pull from? That's some good inflexible postulation there.
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Coming from an average consumer like myself Price is very important to my decision making.

The problem with blu-ray's price structure is that's it's targeted to the videophiles and not at the average consumer J6p.

This where HD-DVD will succeedd in price, headstart, and name alone! People will see blu-ray and think what's that a fish?lol
Wow this price thing has you guys really pixellated! It's as if there's no such thing as competitive pricing. Man, what an interesting world that must be. Of course, when people see Blu-Ray, it's new, it's different, and if I may be goofy, the cases are blue. The DVD name might even work against HD DVD, as in "I've already got something with DVD, this doesn't sound so revolutionary". Similar names mean confusion, and confusion is never a good thing, especially when it comes to us American consumers.

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post #22 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 12:27 PM
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Blu-ray is more targeted at the videophiles while HD-DVD is more targeted at the consumer.

Much like VHS vs. beta-max, the superior product does'nt always win.
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post #23 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 12:32 PM
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That's some excellent cut-and-paste there. You should probably post that in the "big thread" just to be complete. Hmmm...I wonder if there's a huge overlap in videophiles and early adopters. What am I thinking? That's ludicrous!

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post #24 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 12:39 PM
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I see that, in addition to ignoring the Dreamcast, you totally discount extra functions equalling extra cost, and the huge number of companies other than Creative (did you see the "almost" in my post?) that have portable music products. But I'll let you play by your own rules.
The Dreamcast problem was ...great specs ...poor games. It's hard to extrapolate gaming success with media consumption. I know that Se7en is going to be the same movie regardless of player. With games I know that I won't have access to Mario games on anything but a Nintendo etc. Thus it's the games that sell the platform.

They're trying to do this with Blu Ray and HD DVD and I don't agree with it. Content providers need to support the formats that offer them protection and offer the consumer choice. The iPod isn't much more expensive than the myriad of clone WMA devices. It's platform is second to none for accessories and support.

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So are you saying then that you believe that Blu-Ray will never have comparable prices? Are you also stating that HD-DVD has a larger pool of titles to pull from? That's some good inflexible postulation there
I believe that Blu Ray technology depends on a lot of engineering advances to make it stable. This will drive the costs up and I believe unless it reaches critical mass it will not have the economies of scale to be cheaper than HD DVD. Blu Ray will have a advantage in titles however and I don't see them losing that for quite some time.

The reason why I know about pricing is because I have direct contact with consumers. I market vendor products on the weekend at retail stores for some extra cash I tell you the week that Acer has their laptops on sale is the week I lose a lot of sales. Consumers are almost willed to buy the cheapest product. If there are $200 in rebates that won't come for two months they'll still buy it. Competing against lower pricing is VERY hard in retail unless you have an irrefutable advantage.

The PS3 effect is going to be interesting in how it affects not only HD DVD but other Blu Ray vendors and their product.
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post #25 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Here is a list of why I believe that Blu-ray is better format than HD-DVD.

[1]Blu-ray discs require a hardcoat that makes them more durable than DVD. This can of course be put on pre-recorded HD-DVD discs as well but that quite simply won't happen since it would take away much of the cost advantage that is the sole reason HD-DVD exists.
[2]The majority of CE manufacturers are behind Blu-ray, which will give consumers a good number of player/recorder choices.
[3]Because their is good reason to believe that Blu-ray will get 100% studio support while that is unlikely to ever happen with HD-DVD.
[4]The number of announced movies for Blu-ray is greater than HD-DVD.
[5]BD-J is a better interactive layer than iHD.
First, let me say that I do favor BD over HD DVD, and only because I prefer the capacity. All things being equal, the only thing I really want is the capacity. Price is a major factor, but I will pay a slight premium for BD since it has that higher capacity. Media... that's another story. If HD DVD titles are $10 cheaper than the same exact BD title, then HD DVD will win. _UNLESS_ BD markets itself like the current Superbit DVDS. Less compression, Lossless soundtracks on BD vs $10 cheaper HD DVD, I will lean towards BD in that case. J6P however will be all over HD DVD.

On your 'pros' of BD, I'd like to refute some of them....

1. The hardcoat is _required_ so they're basically AS durable as DVD or HD DVD. Remember, initially there was supposed to be a cartridge, which imo would have lead to the immediate demise of BD. Personally, I think this is a DISADVANTAGE.

2. Many CE mfgrs are, like the consumers, on the fence. More will appear as a winner emerges.

3. Universal is still holding out, and ultimately, all studios will go with the format that 'wins'. Studios don't have to be tied to a single format, and shouldn't be.

4. At any point in time, one format can honestly say they have more announced titles, then someone else makes an annoucement and they're no longer right.

5. Debatable, potato / potatoe

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post #26 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 01:27 PM
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The Dreamcast problem was ...great specs ...poor games. It's hard to extrapolate gaming success with media consumption. I know that Se7en is going to be the same movie regardless of player. With games I know that I won't have access to Mario games on anything but a Nintendo etc. Thus it's the games that sell the platform.

They're trying to do this with Blu Ray and HD DVD and I don't agree with it. Content providers need to support the formats that offer them protection and offer the consumer choice.
I hope you realize how funny this sounds. game titles sell game consoles (not being early or cheaper) on the other hand because you like HD-DVD and want the movies on HD-DVD it does not matter that half the major studios that equal 1/2 the movie library won't support HD-DVD just because it is not faire for them to do so.


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Competing against lower pricing is VERY hard in retail unless you have an irrefutable advantage.
agree, but that is when all else is equal. In this case it is not. The bottom feeders (cheapest at any cost) won't buy any, the guy that wants quality will buy BD, now where does everyone else fit in? my opinion DVD is just too cheap to have anyone that does not care about quality going 2G you can buy a cheap player <30$ you can buy a decent player <100$ and a good one <200$ so why would anyone buy a cheap HD-DVD player? obviously they must care at least a bit about quality and if they do why would they be happy for extra PQ/AQ only on some of the HD available movies? You are actually telling me that knowing movie X is available in HD but not in your format won’t bother you? I know it will bother me and I only need to deal with a handful of titles from Universal. Now I will admit that does make it tempting to buy both, but in the end I think one format must win if there is a chance for 2G to thrive and take the reigns from DVD and so willing to do my part to make sure I don’t prolong the war.
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post #27 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyP
I hope you realize how funny this sounds. game titles sell game consoles (not being early or cheaper) on the other hand because you like HD-DVD and want the movies on HD-DVD it does not matter that half the major studios that equal 1/2 the movie library won't support HD-DVD just because it is not faire for them to do so.
He also believes that "game players are also a niche market," make of that what you will.

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post #28 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 01:44 PM
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1. The hardcoat is _required_ so they're basically AS durable as DVD or HD DVD. Remember, initially there was supposed to be a cartridge, which imo would have lead to the immediate demise of BD. Personally, I think this is a DISADVANTAGE.
Clepto :
I think you are missing the point, they are not basically as durable, the specs ask for something much durable.
Let me put it this way let's say DVD is the equivalent of having 30$ in the wallet. BD with out HC is the same as having 20$ in the wallet. HC is the equivalent of going to the ATM and getting an extra 20$ from it. Now who has more money to spend (can take more abuse) the guy with 30$ or the guy with 20+20?=40$. The specs for the HC are on the blue ray side, they make the BD tougher

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2. Many CE mfgrs are, like the consumers, on the fence. More will appear as a winner emerges.
agree, but how does everyone decide the winner (usually it is a popularity, and in this case it would be studios, CEs and consumers) we might not know 100% what will happen but at this point in time studio support is lopsided, CE support is lopsided and by the polls here and other sites catering to most probably the people that will be buying this when they come it, the customer support is losided. And all three are in the direction of BD

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3. Universal is still holding out, and ultimately, all studios will go with the format that 'wins'. Studios don't have to be tied to a single format, and shouldn't be
But let's face it Sony/MGM will be hard to budge and so will Fox. so they won't be ready to change in over a year or two.

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4. At any point in time, one format can honestly say they have more announced titles, then someone else makes an annoucement and they're no longer right.
yes, but it comes down to studo support, that is why BD has more titles then HD-DVD because HD-DVD<1/2 the studio support then BD and even then most of the HD-DVD studios are also BD studios
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post #29 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyP
I hope you realize how funny this sounds. game titles sell game consoles (not being early or cheaper) on the other hand because you like HD-DVD and want the movies on HD-DVD it does not matter that half the major studios that equal 1/2 the movie library won't support HD-DVD just because it is not faire for them to do so.

You put words in his mouth, and then say his words sound funny.

He didn't say exclusive content didn't matter. He said he didn't like it that studios were producing exclusive content. There was no "on one hand then on the other" to it.


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He also believes that "game players are also a niche market," make of that what you will.
That's one sweet niche!
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post #30 of 57 Old 01-09-2006, 02:09 PM
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Competing against lower pricing is VERY hard in retail unless you have an irrefutable advantage.
sony's bravia flat panel tv is the best selling lcd on the market today. not only is bravia more expensive than the all of the competition, there is NO irrefutable (if any) advantage feature wise.
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