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post #271 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394
30.24 Mbps is the maximum mux rate (the total of all the streams plus muxing overhead). 36.55 Mbps is the transfer rate from the disk into the track buffer.
Just curious but what is the maximum mux rate and transfer rate for the BD-Video format?
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post #272 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 09:31 PM
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If I were a BD studio, I surely would complain about lack of space in BD-25 too :). There is no room at all for even the regular DVD extras in there. But this is because they are shy 5 gigabytes of HD DVD-30 (which can mean a TON of extras) and are using MPEG-2....

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post #273 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 09:52 PM
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Just realized that 5 GB is a lot when talking about SD extras. I mean that's a full SL DVD or more than half a DVD9.

Even if you code SD at MPEG2 thats 5 GB is a lot of space for SD. Using MPEG4 or VC1...

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post #274 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 10:07 PM
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Amir,

Can the native 1080ps24 signal be extracted from the 1080i/60 output of the HDA1 from a deinterlacer that does a good job with inverse telecine?

I am specifcally interested in the Gennum VXP chip but a general overview of if we can get to that 'pristine' native format without a firmware update to the player would be interesting.

Thanks for all your answers thus far, theyve been some of the most informative/relevant posts i've read on the forum in awhile.
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post #275 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 10:21 PM
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Anyone want to take a guess as to when we will see a movie title on BD50? :) How about this, when will Sony use VC1 on their titles? Or better yet when will Sony release HD DVD titles lol.
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post #276 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
If I were a BD studio, I surely would complain about lack of space in BD-25 too :). There is no room at all for even the regular DVD extras in there. But this is because they are shy 5 gigabytes of HD DVD-30 (which can mean a TON of extras) and are using MPEG-2....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert D
Anyone want to take a guess as to when we will see a movie title on BD50? :) How about this, when will Sony use VC1 on their titles? Or better yet when will Sony release HD DVD titles lol.
Come now guys can we keep the Blu-ray bashing out of at least one thread or is that asking to much?
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post #277 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 10:33 PM
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Hey I would really like to justify buying a BD player at some time so my questions are legit imo. After all this is the HDTV Software Media forum. :)

OK I won't mention BD ever again in this thread, now are you happy?
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post #278 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Come now guys can we keep the Blu-ray bashing out of at least one thread or is that asking to much?
My apologies. I assumed that since the comment came from Keith, and talked about lack of extras, it was referring to BD.

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post #279 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expletive
Amir,

Can the native 1080ps24 signal be extracted from the 1080i/60 output of the HDA1 from a deinterlacer that does a good job with inverse telecine?
I would expect so although someone like sspears can asnwer with more authority. On my Ruby, I am seeing excellent de-interlacing already.

Quote:
I am specifcally interested in the Gennum VXP chip but a general overview of if we can get to that 'pristine' native format without a firmware update to the player would be interesting.
I have an Anthem D2 on order. Hope to have it in a week or so and can test with that. Since that box uses the Gennum VXP, it should be a good test.

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post #280 of 4623 Old 07-14-2006, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFB
Amirm, I've read a number of your posts and have really appreciated your contributions. You have an elegant way of taking tech and making it easily digestible, understandable, and concise. You openly expose your bias from work affiliation (the source of your knowledge) and do as good a job of trying to be unbiased as I think it's possible to do. You are doing a really good job that I don't think any logical person could find fault with and I've gotten my mind around a lot of the core issues in the competing technologies as a result of your posts. So thanks again and keep up the good work. For what it's worth, I don't find myself often giving compliments but I am not shy about doing it when I feel they have been merited.
Thank you very much Chris for taking the time to post this. I really appreciate the kind remarks.

I have been fortunate enough to have a lot of practice over the years in this kind of thing. For better part of a decade, I thought Unix kernel programming and performance optimization of the same at the University of CA in an intensive weekend course. Let me tell you. Once you learn how to teach novice Unix users who barely know what a computer is, how the kernel memory management works in half a day, when it took you two years to master, you can explain any topic known to man :).

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post #281 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 02:01 AM
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Amir,

Disney/BD/iHD/HD-DVD story time yet? :)
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post #282 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 02:04 AM
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Sorry Robert. It is 1:00am and I am going to bed. Had some new furniture come for my office and I spent time playing with that...

I promise I will post tomorrow.

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post #283 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrogen
Amir,

Are you aware of any TV series that have gotten to the encoding process?
Ooh! I get to make an insider post :)!

Yep, there are series that have started encoding, and are coming along nicely. Our recent encoder improvements have been a big help - even stuff like complex motion graphics and fast cutting in the title sequences are working with much less operator tweaking than even a month ago. Needless to say, studios are quite pleased when we can dramatically improve their throughput per compressionist.

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post #284 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner
Ooh! I get to make an insider post :)!

Yep, there are series that have started encoding, and are coming along nicely. Our recent encoder improvements have been a big help - even stuff like complex motion graphics and fast cutting in the title sequences are working with much less operator tweaking than even a month ago. Needless to say, studios are quite pleased when we can dramatically improve their throughput per compressionist.
This is a VC1 encoder right? Does that come from MicroSoft?
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post #285 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Sorry Robert. It is 1:00am and I am going to bed.

Proof that Amir is not a bot :p (someone will surely retort)
Lets hope MS is taking good care of you! You're a very valuable asset to them. Thanks again for all your answers. Being new to this stuff just a couple of months ago, I've learned a lot thanks to your willingess to answer in a straightforward manner with just the right amount of Tech Talk + English.
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post #286 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
iHD and HD DVD system allows extra content to be downloaded to persistent/permanent storage and played from there, in sync with the main content coming from the disc itself. As such, one can go way beyond 30 gigabytes using digital downloads. You get the high-def movie in the box, and the rest comes refreshed from the web…
Are there available titles or upcoming titles allowing extra content to be downloaded from the web ? Thanks.
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post #287 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Sorry Robert. It is 1:00am and I am going to bed. Had some new furniture come for my office and I spent time playing with that...
I guess that answers the age-old question of "what does a Microsoft employee play with in his spare time?" Coffee tables and chairs. ;)

In all seriousness, it's informed contributions from insiders such as yourself and others that keeps me coming back to this board. Obviously none of you have to be here but it's comforting that you are.
Thank you.

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post #288 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 05:39 AM
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Regarding Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on:
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Just repeating, we have not decided the exact regions yet.
Amir,

first off, thank you for taking part in this thread. The nuggets of information you [not forgetting the other insiders on this thread; a big hand to you guys, too!] are beyond valuable. (And if that isn't a set-up for a joke, I don't know what is.)

My questions are as follows:

1) If Microsoft decides Europe is not a valid market for the add-on yet and moves the European release date forward to some unannounced point in time, would I be able to use the US add-on in my European X360?

2) How would I go about scoring the US add-on? ;)

thanks,
:: petri

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post #289 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
I have an Anthem D2 on order. Hope to have it in a week or so and can test with that. Since that box uses the Gennum VXP, it should be a good test.
Me too. :)

How long have you been waiting for yours? Its been over 3 weeks for me already... :(
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post #290 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 08:55 AM
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I know of three authoring tools for BD
Sony
Panasonic
Sonic

Can one of the MS insiders tell me if MS is actively trying to port VC-1 to any of these (don't need to say which one). If so, how is it going? Estimate on when it would be complete? If you aren't doing the work, do you know if anyone else is?

Thanks

Scott Stephens
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post #291 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert D
This is a VC1 encoder right? Does that come from MicroSoft?
Yes, this is the VC-1 encoding technology we've been providing the studios.

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post #292 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
Can you give us an idea about how much peak bandwidth the extra stuff can take if they go from using 5% of what the system can do to using 100% of what the system can do?
iHD is just text - even complex code won't take up a significant amount of bandwidth. It's more of an issue for how to craft the code so that it remains performant as complexity imcreaes. Peter Torr's blog talks about best practices for iHD in a lot of detail:

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptorr/

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post #293 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstephen
I know of three authoring tools for BD
Sony
Panasonic
Sonic

Can one of the MS insiders tell me if MS is actively trying to port VC-1 to any of these (don't need to say which one). If so, how is it going? Estimate on when it would be complete? If you aren't doing the work, do you know if anyone else is?
In the professional space, the compression and authoring stages happen in different applications. So it isn't a matter of adding VC-1 encoding to the products, just adding support for reading VC-1 elementary streams. Sonic has already demonstrated VC-1 support in their authoring products, and mention it here:

http://www.sonic.com/products/Profes.../features.aspx

We're certainly actively engaged with a number of vendors, but it's up to them to announce support.

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post #294 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
My apologies. I assumed that since the comment came from Keith, and talked about lack of extras, it was referring to BD.
He seemed to refering to all studios (it was in response to a TL question). And it had to do with interactivity plans that required the extras to be on the same disc as the feature.

But, so far neither of you seem willing to debate this topic. So, I'll let it drop.

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post #295 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen
1) If Microsoft decides Europe is not a valid market for the add-on yet and moves the European release date forward to some unannounced point in time, would I be able to use the US add-on in my European X360?
I am not aware of any locking protocols that would stop it from working. Of course, that may not be a tested configuration so you may want to wait for others testing it before investing.

Quote:
2) How would I go about scoring the US add-on? ;)
You mean now? If so, that is not possible as we do not have an external testing program currently.

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post #296 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf
He seemed to refering to all studios (it was in response to a TL question). And it had to do with interactivity plans that required the extras to be on the same disc as the feature.
I would be shocked to hear that he has talked to ALL studios and that everyone is complaining about lack of space. I know for certain none of the studio executives that I talk to on HD DVD side are asking for more space.

Quote:
But, so far neither of you seem willing to debate this topic. So, I'll let it drop.
I don't think we want to have debates in this thread :). But if he can add some more data to his comments as in which side of the fence it came from, that would be useful. But I don't want to push him either.

What I do know, and something that has been reported widely, is the fact that Disney wanted 50 gigabytes. Given that, one must assume that they would be unhappy if they can't publish all of their titles that way, after being on record as that being one of their key reasons for picking BD format. And truth to be told, TL 45 was largely in response to that request and when their support still didn't come after the proposal, TL 45 sat fallow.

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post #297 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expletive
Me too. :)

How long have you been waiting for yours? Its been over 3 weeks for me already... :(
Oh, we just ordered it a couple of days ago. I didn’t realize it was that hard to get! We are getting it from a local high-end shop. So maybe they have more pull. Or I have the wrong ETA :(.

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post #298 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 10:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner
In the professional space, the compression and authoring stages happen in different applications. So it isn't a matter of adding VC-1 encoding to the products, just adding support for reading VC-1 elementary streams. Sonic has already demonstrated VC-1 support in their authoring products, and mention it here:

http://www.sonic.com/products/Profes.../features.aspx

We're certainly actively engaged with a number of vendors, but it's up to them to announce support.
So if BD authoring tools are actively supporting VC-1 and studios other than Sony are going to use VC-1, then what is the logic of MS backing HD DVD since VC-1 isn't limited to either format? Isn't it possible that you will have more movies available on BD than HD DVD encoded in VC-1?

Would it be a stretch to say that MS support for HD DVD is temporary and within the next 6 months we will see them take a much more neutral stand? I could postulate further and say, the Xbox sometime next year could provide both HD DVD and BD external drives.

Is this why Toshiba has been talking about a unified format, since they are aware that it's only a matter of time?

In my opinion, VC-1 is really what differentiates BD from HD DVD right now from a qualitative perspective.

Interesting to see how this plays out.
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post #299 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Oh, we just ordered it a couple of days ago. I didn’t realize it was that hard to get! We are getting it from a local high-end shop. So maybe they have more pull. Or I have the wrong ETA :(.
Hopefully we'll both be happy very shortly. Apparently the D2 and AVM50 are far exeeding demand expectations and the Gennum video board is in "relatively" short supply. Now might be a good time to remind Anthem who you are and use some of your own personal pull. ;)
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post #300 of 4623 Old 07-15-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman
So if BD authoring tools are actively supporting VC-1 and studios other than Sony are going to use VC-1, then what is the logic of MS backing HD DVD since VC-1 isn't limited to either format? Isn't it possible that you will have more movies available on BD than HD DVD encoded in VC-1?
We have many reasons for backing HD DVD. When we made our decision to back it, VC-1 was mandatory in both formats so that was not the basis of it.

Quote:
Would it be a stretch to say that MS support for HD DVD is temporary and within the next 6 months we will see them take a much more neutral stand? I could postulate further and say, the Xbox sometime next year could provide both HD DVD and BD external drives.
It WILL NOT HAPPEN :). We backed HD DVD at the time most people did not believe in it. You can surely imagine how much better we feel about it now :).

Quote:
Is this why Toshiba has been talking about a unified format, since they are aware that it's only a matter of time?
Their CEO, Nishida-san, trying to be nice. There are no discussions whatsoever around unification currently.

Quote:
In my opinion, VC-1 is really what differentiates BD from HD DVD right now from a qualitative perspective.
When we get to volume production of hundreds of millions, HD DVD advantage of lower cost will kick in, at the same that any price protection phases out.

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