Industry Insiders Q&A Thread: only Questions to insiders please - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 4623 Old 07-10-2006, 08:11 PM
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post #92 of 4623 Old 07-10-2006, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyg
1. When should we expect to see movies on BD50 in stores?
2. Is Sony still planning to stick to MPEG2 or have they reconsidered?

Thanks in advance.
Via direct personal communication with Ben F., President SPHE (Sony Pictures Home Entertainment) – from the last week of June (I think, I’m jet lagged :eek: )

Answer #1
"Sony will release sample quantities of BD 50 for SPHE and other studios shortly and should have capacity and use BD 50 for some big titles in Nov. and Dec.

We are birthing at this stage and everyone needs to be patient for the format to have the best potential.

We are also working on BD 100 and up to 200 and are testing bit rates much higher than 24-25."

Answer #2
"Initial testing of the *advanced codecs* indicates"…..(well for the sake of not provoking an argument, I’ll delete the rest of his sentence :) )

Then he said,

"We will have time to use them next year."

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post #93 of 4623 Old 07-10-2006, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
We are birthing at this stage and everyone needs to be patient for the format to have the best potential.
I am patient as long as the transfer is decent at 25GB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
We are also working on BD 100 and up to 200 and are testing bit rates much higher than 24-25."
I am confused, I thought personal communication should be different from PR statement?

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post #94 of 4623 Old 07-10-2006, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
We are birthing at this stage and everyone needs to be patient for the format to have the best potential.

Well if Sony doesn't use VC1 and can't get 50GB discs to fly imo they are not birthing they are stillborn.
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post #95 of 4623 Old 07-10-2006, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
Via direct personal communication with Ben F., President SPHE (Sony Pictures Home Entertainment) – from the last week of June (I think, I’m jet lagged :eek: )

Answer #1
"Sony will release sample quantities of BD 50 for SPHE and other studios shortly and should have capacity and use BD 50 for some big titles in Nov. and Dec....

...We are also working on BD 100 and up to 200 and are testing bit rates much higher than 24-25."
generally speaking, what is the hold up with BD 50? I have heard some reports about replication issues and poor yields, is this in the ballpark?

If they are still having trouble with BD 50 how believable is it that they can get BD 100 or 200 working?

I assume that they are having trouble because they are no where to be found so this at least indicates that something is wrong.


p.s. I am not looking for specific answers just some general idea.
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post #96 of 4623 Old 07-10-2006, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
Via direct personal communication with Ben F., President SPHE (Sony Pictures Home Entertainment) – from the last week of June (I think, I’m jet lagged :eek: )

Answer #1
"Sony will release sample quantities of BD 50 for SPHE and other studios shortly and should have capacity and use BD 50 for some big titles in Nov. and Dec.

We are birthing at this stage and everyone needs to be patient for the format to have the best potential.

We are also working on BD 100 and up to 200 and are testing bit rates much higher than 24-25."

Answer #2
"Initial testing of the *advanced codecs* indicates"…..(well for the sake of not provoking an argument, I’ll delete the rest of his sentence :) )

Then he said,

"We will have time to use them next year."
Thanks for that Penton,

Interesting use of the words sample, should, testing (twice) and patient in Mr. Feingold’s paraphrased response.

And while you were rightly diplomatic in your answer to #2, would I be far off to read that as no VC-1/MPEG4 discs until 2007?
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post #97 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
Answer #2
"Initial testing of the *advanced codecs* indicates"…..(well for the sake of not provoking an argument, I’ll delete the rest of his sentence :) )

Then he said,

"We will have time to use them next year."
Based on some of the chatter I've seen around the place, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the BD camp are having problems with their decoder hardware in the players, in relation to decoding full-speed VC1 or AVC material.

Talking about using the advanced codecs NEXT YEAR sometime really seems to indicate to me that there is a bigger problem than just the authoring tools...

Anyone? (insiders, please :) )
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post #98 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
My question is this.

Is there really language in the licensing terms of HD DVD and Blu-Ray that prohibits the inclusion of the competitors product for the creation of a Universal Player?

This is a good question that I would like to know as well. Is there anything other than technical and cost considerations that prohibits universal players? Specifically, is there written policy prohibiting it?
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post #99 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam
Based on some of the chatter I've seen around the place, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the BD camp are having problems with their decoder hardware in the players, in relation to decoding full-speed VC1 or AVC material.

Talking about using the advanced codecs NEXT YEAR sometime really seems to indicate to me that there is a bigger problem than just the authoring tools...

Anyone? (insiders, please :) )
Are you saying that the current Samsung BD player might have problem with BD25 VC-1 or AVC playback? Now that would be a bombshell. :eek:

Considering VC-1 and AVC.264 is incorporated into BD spec, I don't see how Samsung can release a player with such a big problem. At least I hope not.
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post #100 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 05:19 AM
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We are also working on BD 100 and up to 200 and are testing bit rates much higher than 24-25."
I think I understand why bit rates much higher than 24-25 would be beneficial if one were using MPEG2. But what is the benefit if one were using VC-1 or MPEG4? At what bit rate do you reach the point of diminishing returns? If you can achieve an exact copy of the master with a bitrate of x, what do you gain using 2X?

"Being unable to assume an initial premise with any tolerable degree of accuracy, I am loathe to assert a conclusion fearful lest I should err."
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post #101 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam
Based on some of the chatter I've seen around the place, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the BD camp are having problems with their decoder hardware in the players, in relation to decoding full-speed VC1 or AVC material.
rdjam, their is no indication of that at all and the Broadcom decoder that was used in the Samsung player it is actually capable of decoding bit streams higher than what is even specified for Blu-ray.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy Huff
I think I understand why bit rates much higher than 24-25 would be beneficial if one were using MPEG2. But what is the benefit if one were using VC-1 or MPEG4?
In terms of average bit rate probably not any, but in terms of peak bit rate it could prove beneficial.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy Huff
If you can achieve an exact copy of the master with a bitrate of x, what do you gain using 2X?
I think you are aiming a bit to high with the phrase "exact copy" and visually close is probably a lot more realistic of a goal. After you can't remove over 95% of the data and still achieve an exact copy.
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post #102 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 06:48 AM
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I hope we can keep this thread limited to questions for, and replies by insiders. Members can argue with each other in different threads I trust.


Quote:
Post Questions directed to and answered only by Industry Insiders
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post #103 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan
I hope we can keep this thread limited to questions for, and replies by insiders. Members can argue with each other in different threads I trust.
I agree: please argue with each other off the forum: not here
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post #104 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 06:59 AM
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Can any of the insiders comment on whether the Toshiba would actually be able to display 1080p with a firmware update? It doesn't seem likely given the chips used, but there's no real proof... just a lot of arguing back and forth.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #105 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 07:14 AM
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To add to Madpoet's question, is there any more word on the possible upgrade to 5.1 TruHD decoding via firmware update?
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post #106 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 07:17 AM
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So that we can have it on the record here, would an insider comment on BD 100 and 200 as far as the Blu-Ray video spec? Is this truly a place for BD video to go?

EDIT: This is the latest *I* could find that is publicaly available. In short, it states that BD ROM for movie distribution is either one or two layers. I take it that is still true.

Also, I found this in the same document:

Quote:
The various capacities of BD-ROM discs are shown in Figure 2-1. As you can see from Figure 2-1, most movie applications can be recorded on a single layer disc and we can expect a reasonable cost for such discs.
...which seems to suggest that the plan has been to mainly rely on BD25 all along, once the move was made to advanced codecs. Anyone want to touch that?
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post #107 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
... the Broadcom decoder that was [is] used in the Samsung player it is actually capable of decoding bit streams higher than what is even specified for Blu-ray.
That is correct.

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post #108 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 08:06 AM
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I have a question. According to the interview here, quote " The first production models will be shown at the IFA show in Berlin for which we are investing quite a lot in with our partners like Microsoft and so on."

So the first model on sale in Europe would be totally different from the current design? Is it Windows CE based?

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post #109 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Answer #2
"Initial testing of the *advanced codecs* indicates"…..(well for the sake of not provoking an argument, I’ll delete the rest of his sentence :) )

Then he said,

"We will have time to use them next year."
Is it safe to assume that the rest of that sentence said something to the effect that they did not see a difference between VC-1 and MPEG2? If so, I wonder what the avg bitrate was for the MPEG2 vs VC-1?
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post #110 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam
Based on some of the chatter I've seen around the place, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the BD camp are having problems with their decoder hardware in the players, in relation to decoding full-speed VC1 or AVC material.
Links please? Since the exact same decoder hardware is used for HD-DVD players, I would think you'd be worried about those also. :)

Quote:
Talking about using the advanced codecs NEXT YEAR sometime really seems to indicate to me that there is a bigger problem than just the authoring tools...
One of the hazards of using month-old quotes is that they are just that -- old and out of date. :)

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post #111 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet
Can any of the insiders comment on whether the Toshiba would actually be able to display 1080p with a firmware update? It doesn't seem likely given the chips used, but there's no real proof... just a lot of arguing back and forth.
If the HDMI chip is not the -7 version, then it cannot ever support 1080p reliably. The non -7 versions of the HDMI chip are not fast enough to generate 1080p output reliably. And this assumes the upstream hardware and software was designed to be able to generate 1080p video in the first place.

We and Silicon Image worked through this issue several months ago. This was pointed out several times already, I'm surprised there is still debate it. :)

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post #112 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 08:57 AM
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There's been some scattered talk here and there over the months about the possibility of DVD being "retrofitted" to deal with managed copy. Is this just a wishful dream on some posters part or is there actual work being done towards this within the DVD Forum?
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post #113 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 09:04 AM
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Tom has already confirmed this. But one of the first test we (Toshiba/Microsoft) did on the Broadcom chip when it became available, was to run a VC-1 stream at 30 Mbit/sec (average rate). It played perfectly. As noted, we don't think anyone will encode VC-1 streams at that rate, but we want to know if had good headroom. We did :).

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post #114 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack
...The non -7 versions of the HDMI chip are not fast enough to generate 1080p output reliably...
Granted for 1080p60, but what about 1080p24?

Quote:
...And this assumes the upstream hardware and software was designed to be able to generate 1080p video in the first place...
Yes, that is a big question that I wish Broadcom (Tom McMahon ?) or Toshiba would answer (edit: about 1080p24 possible).

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post #115 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 09:09 AM
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Why is Toshiba not making a definitive statement on HD45 media? They've brough it up but never made anything official. I'd think if they could produce it in mass quantities with decent yeilds, as claimed by the Toshiba exec, they'd be using it as a strong pr/marketing tool, giving the studios yet another option and making A1 owners happy if the current players can read the 45gb discs properly.
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post #116 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 09:10 AM
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So, I got a chance to watch parts of Paramount discs last night (I am here at VSDA). I have to tell you, there are some strong, strong keepers there. The "A" title will surely wind up in my top 5 HD DVD disc list. And once I get a chance to watch it on the Ruby to confirm quality (we were using HP DLP sets), it may garner higher praise than that! There is at least another title that is close to it in quality.

I also saw another unlreased Warner title that was excellent. Again, judgement waits until I watch it at home. But the number of reference HD DVD discs is surely increasing this month.

I think the current count for HD DVD titles is at 48 now....

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post #117 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge
There's been some scattered talk here and there over the months about the possibility of DVD being "retrofitted" to deal with managed copy. Is this just a wishful dream on some posters part or is there actual work being done towards this within the DVD Forum?
Alongside that question; what happened to MMC? Rumint says we may be back to MC - if and only if studios want to support it... Did we consumers lose the MMC war?
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post #118 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 09:14 AM
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MMC provisions would be part of the next AACS license agreement and it (the agreement as a whole) is still being debated. I can not comment on the nature of the debate however.

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post #119 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
MMC provisions would be part of the next AACS license agreement and it (the agreement as a whole) is still being debated. I can not comment on the nature of the debate however.
Thanks for the reply.
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post #120 of 4623 Old 07-11-2006, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
MMC provisions would be part of the next AACS license agreement and it (the agreement as a whole) is still being debated. I can not comment on the nature of the debate however.
The proximity of distance between "would be" and "will be" can be infinite. Putting aside any other terms of "the agreement as a whole", is MMC a settled or an unsettled issue at this time? That can be answered without revealing the outcome, no?

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