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post #451 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomopolis View Post

The only negatives brought out by the game systems; the PS3 has effectively made it unrealistic for CE companies to sell BD players over $500 in any kind of quantity. The Addon has effectively taken six million (or miiiiilllllliiiiiiioooooonnnnn if you prefer) potential customers interested in hitech away from any CE companies wanting to get into HD-DVD until players are sub $200.

Both are offset by connections that audio enthusiasts (arguably a niche concern) would want. I was getting set on the HD-XA1, but very true, this player was just too good a deal for a fraction of the current pricing for me to seriously consider it. Even if my analog inputs remain empty. Then there are elitists who won't consider a game system and those who don't want their decidedly un-home theater component appearance. More players available is never a bad thing, though, and the dedicated players should be able to (hopefully) add features, though the firmware/feature/hard drives on the game systems make them very likely to be able to counter.

The 360 gimping it's audio ouput is a bit more serious concern. I should at least be able to get the DD+. Hopefully this will be addressed via firmware (and is presupposes that this something that CAN be addressed by firmware).

The PS3's HDMI output gives it an advantage for me, offset by 1) I can't get a PS3 and 2) the hope that Microsoft may be able to come out with HDMI.

In either case, I'll remain format agnostic.

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post #452 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomopolis View Post

I didn't say you were being annoying, I was speculating that you were trying to be annoying....now I think you are trying to mimic Carl Sagan, only he usually talked in BIIIIILLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYUUUUUUUUUUNNNNSSSSSSSSSSS.


Going back and reading the recent posts I think we are arguing past each other. So instead of continuing it, I am going to jump back to something I said a few days ago.


The addon appears to be popular, so the odds of HD-DVD dying have lessened. The odds of studio support increasing has gone up.

The PS3, based upon initial reviews, appears to be a good BD player, so the odds of the studios abandoning BD have lessened. The odds of Universal putting movies on it have increased.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

The only negatives brought out by the game systems; the PS3 has effectively made it unrealistic for CE companies to sell BD players over $500 in any kind of quantity. The Addon has effectively taken six million (or miiiiilllllliiiiiiioooooonnnnn if you prefer) potential customers interested in hitech away from any CE companies wanting to get into HD-DVD until players are sub $200.



Happy?

If we could just convince Microsoft to come up with a $200.00 42" plasma addon for the Xbox... I could go for that...

b2b

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post #453 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 09:43 AM
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I didn't say you were being annoying, I was speculating that you were trying to be annoying....now I think you are trying to mimic Carl Sagan, only he usually talked in BIIIIILLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYUUUUUUUUUUNNNNSSSSSSSSSSS.

Ok, now I'm impressed. Carl Sagan isn't exactly a household reference.


Quote:


The addon appears to be popular, so the odds of HD-DVD dying have lessened. The odds of studio support increasing has gone up.

The PS3, based upon initial reviews, appears to be a good BD player, so the odds of the studios abandoning BD have lessened. The odds of Universal putting movies on it have increased.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

I agree actually. I said that in another thread. It's also been my position from the very start of getting involved in the "format war" that exclusive studios are doing this wrong. There should be as much studio neutrality as possible and let the consumers decide the format.


Quote:


The only negatives brought out by the game systems; the PS3 has effectively made it unrealistic for CE companies to sell BD players over $500 in any kind of quantity. The Addon has effectively taken six million (or miiiiilllllliiiiiiioooooonnnnn if you prefer) potential customers interested in hitech away from any CE companies wanting to get into HD-DVD until players are sub $200.

I see it another way. I see it as an inexpensive way for a large segment of people to get into the format and start buying movies. I don't believe that Universal, Fox, Disney, etc: care how many CE players are on the market, or who makes them. I'm sure they care how many discs they sell. That is going to be what sways their format choices.

That said, this add-on won't stop overseas CE's from making standalone players. There are still advantages for many who don't own Xbox 360's to getting a standalone player. And if someone can get a player down into the $350-$399 range, that would spur sales just as much.


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If we could just convince Microsoft to come up with a $200.00 42" plasma addon for the Xbox... I could go for that...

I don't do anything under 65"
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post #454 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

I don't do anything under 65"

So why are you in love with a $200 addon that doesn't fully support HD-DVD with all options. Looks like a $1000 HD-XA2 would be more to your budget capabilities.

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post #455 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 10:55 AM
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post #456 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:17 AM
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So why are you in love with a $200 addon that doesn't fully support HD-DVD with all options. Looks like a $1000 HD-XA2 would be more to your budget capabilities.

Funny, I put an HD-DVD disc in, and I get 1080i (since I don't have a 1080p set, YET). And I get all forms of audio decoded into Dolby Digital (since I don't have a receiver that supports anything else yet).

Oh, and through my VGA cable I get my regular DVD's upconverted.

So I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.
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post #457 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:17 AM
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Ack !... 399 GBP = $771 USD...

b2b

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post #458 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

Then there are elitists who won't consider a game system and those who don't want their decidedly un-home theater component appearance.

Not sure if you are referring to both, but I borrowed a PS3 from somebody and I think it has a nice home theater component appearance. My HD-A1 looks more like an old style home theater component though. I'm not all that impressed by current games I've tried, but as far as the look goes, I think the PS3 looks better than most of my components.
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1) I can't get a PS3

Prices have been coming down pretty fast and it depends on what you are willing to pay. I don't think I would have much problem finding a 20GB PS3 for $700 by putting an ad on craigslist.

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post #459 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:40 AM
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To most people that get the HD DVD add on for the Xbox 360, the audio out of it is equal to or superior to what they have ever gotten from a DVD before.

Some may know in theory that they are not getting all that the format provides, which BTW gives them an incentive to upgrade to a standalone player, but most are and will not be disappointed by their audio experience. To most people, video is more important anyway. The audio is more than good enough to provide a thrilling movie experience.

Most reports are most HD DVD owners are more than satisfied with the audio out, despite its limitations.

Its a matter of meeting expectation also. a $599 PS3 purchase has more expectations than a new $149/199 addon purchase.

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post #460 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

Funny, I put an HD-DVD disc in, and I get 1080i (since I don't have a 1080p set, YET). And I get all forms of audio decoded into Dolby Digital (since I don't have a receiver that supports anything else yet).

So I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

HDMI 1.3, lossless audio thru analog out.. more stuff that I can't remember.

I was going to quote something off the Toshiba site, but they don't even list them (A2 or XA2) under the "products" selection yet, all they show is the discontinued A1 & XA1. The only info is a press release on the new players.

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post #461 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:49 AM
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Did anyone else catch this out of that Europe article on the HP drive:

Quote:


The drives should be available in the UK mid-December with recommended retail pricing of £399 and they will be bundled with Cyberlink playback software. The hd100 is actually a Lite-On device, but HP has been branding its products since early 2005.

Wasn't Lite-On prepping a standalone HD DVD player for sometime in the spring? I saw mock-up pics of it a couple weeks ago, but no info since.
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post #462 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by thomopolis View Post

The only negatives brought out by the game systems; the PS3 has effectively made it unrealistic for CE companies to sell BD players over $500 in any kind of quantity. The Addon has effectively taken six million (or miiiiilllllliiiiiiioooooonnnnn if you prefer) potential customers interested in hitech away from any CE companies wanting to get into HD-DVD until players are sub $200.

Happy?

with the PS3 having the functionality of the expensive standalone players such as HDMI 1.3, 1080p .. I would not be suprised if the console (as b2b put it) 'chop the leg off the standalone players'. if CEs can sell the standalone players because of PS3, I will be the first one to label them SUCKERS !!
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post #463 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

To most people that get the HD DVD add on for the Xbox 360, the audio out of it is equal to or superior to what they have ever gotten from a DVD before.

Some may know in theory that they are not getting all that the format provides, which BTW gives them an incentive to upgrade to a standalone player, but most are and will not be disappointed by their audio experience. To most people, video is more important anyway. The audio is more than good enough to provide a thrilling movie experience.

Most reports are most HD DVD owners are more than satisfied with the audio out, despite its limitations.

Its a matter of meeting expectation also. a $599 PS3 purchase has more expectations than a new $149/199 addon purchase.

Beats the heck out of the HP USB drive for $771 dollars for sure..

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post #464 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:52 AM
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My friend just bought an Xbox 360 and a 42" LCD. When I told her about the HD DVD option whe was VERY jazzed. Another add on sale is coming..i'm sure of it.
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post #465 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

Did anyone else catch this out of that Europe article on the HP drive:



Wasn't Lite-On prepping a standalone HD DVD player for sometime in the spring? I saw mock-up pics of it a couple weeks ago, but no info since.

Looks like they can make more money selling the drives to HP than they can trying to compete with MS (addon $199) and Toshiba (A2 $499) building standalone players. Liteon makes pretty good OEM products, but the their CE stuff is kinda junky.

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post #466 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g55555sim View Post

with the PS3 having the functionality of the expensive standalone players such as HDMI 1.3, 1080p .. I would not be suprised if the console (as b2b put it) 'chop the leg off the standalone players'. if CEs can sell the standalone players because of PS3, I will be the first one to label them SUCKERS !!

As many have said, they don't want a game machine in their rack. I don't think it will be huge problem. And, it is not like the CEs didn't know about the PS3...

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post #467 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nilsp View Post

As many have said, they don't want a game machine in their rack. I don't think it will be huge problem. And, it is not like the CEs didn't know about the PS3...

well CEs might have underestimated the problem of the "expensiveness" of their standalone players
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post #468 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

If we could just convince Microsoft to come up with a $200.00 42" plasma addon for the Xbox... I could go for that...

b2b

Ok, now there's something that everyone can agree on
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post #469 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Ack !... 399 GBP = $771 USD...

That's what the article says. But, it can't be right. I'm sure that is around what a Sony BURNER sells for over there.

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post #470 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g55555sim View Post

well CEs might have underestimated the problem of the "expensiveness" of their standalone players

That could be true. They were probably not expecting Toshiba to launch at $500... Thus suddenly becoming very expensive compared to the competition.

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post #471 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g55555sim View Post

with the PS3 having the functionality of the expensive standalone players such as HDMI 1.3, 1080p .. I would not be suprised if the console (as b2b put it) 'chop the leg off the standalone players'. if CEs can sell the standalone players because of PS3, I will be the first one to label them SUCKERS !!


If HD-DVD had more studio support, I probably would have bought an A1 by now. And if the PS3 didn't exist, I definitely would have bought the Panasonic by now.

Instead, I am waiting to get hold of a PS3 to feed my projector.
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post #472 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Prices have been coming down pretty fast and it depends on what you are willing to pay. I don't think I would have much problem finding a 20GB PS3 for $700 by putting an ad on craigslist.

--Darin


Assuming I am only going to use it for movies and a few games, but never play online or download anything, is there any reason the 20 Gig version would not be adequate?
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post #473 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by nilsp View Post

That could be true. They were probably not expecting Toshiba to launch at $500... Thus suddenly becoming very expensive compared to the competition.

Here's a post where Amir and Talkstr8t were discussing the HP drive vs. the Xbox add-on. they seem to be under the impression that the US price would be $349, but who knows. Maybe the UK site mixed up the US dollar list price with the UK price. I imagine we'll see real prices show up in froogle some time next week and then we'll know for sure.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...49#post8881281
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post #474 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomopolis View Post

Assuming I am only going to use it for movies and a few games, but never play online or download anything, is there any reason the 20 Gig version would not be adequate?

The 60 Gig also has the memory card slots and wireless LAN connectivity. Of course if you would like to load games local to the hard drive instead of playing off the disc, you may want the 60Gig version (below is one example). I plan to pick up the 60Gig personally. I want the memory slots, plus in a couple of years I'll probably want to sell this box, and I think the 60 Gig will be easier to unload.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=85228
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post #475 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomopolis View Post

Assuming I am only going to use it for movies and a few games, but never play online or download anything, is there any reason the 20 Gig version would not be adequate?

Several threads have been made by people who have just bought a 20 GB player. Apparently the 20 GB acts just as well as the 60GB version as a player. It might have made a difference before when the 20 GB was not slated to have HDMI, but both versions now have it.

If your not using the HD for gaming and/or future storage potential the 20 GB should work just as well for Blu-ray movie discs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755349

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post #476 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

BD "winning" this thing would require MS having to can the HD-DVD add on, give up HDi, lose all those VC-1 wins, incur the wrath of orphaned XBox HD DVD add on users, and get a very public black eye in the process. They have a formidable cash reserve, while expressing a keen desire to have their software be there in the digital home (which requires some involvement in the format's creation and administration by the way). Are you suggesting they would just give all that up and wait for the download market?

Of course, it would be decided for them if either Toshiba decided they couldn't afford to fight an expensive, losing battle, or if Universal decided the Blu-ray pastures were too, umm, green.

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post #477 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

What about the fact that Sony and it's crew is propping up a format which was rejected by the very group who more or less oversees the DVD format?

Everyone in the group except Toshiba backed Blu-ray. It was only due to the politics and governance of the group that it is where HD-DVD has been specified.
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Still don't understand why one format has to "win". I'm betting they can both survive and all of us on both sides with our various players can enjoy our movies.

Every analyst out there has said that as long as both formats persist a big chunk of the public will consider neither format. That lack of adoption hurts the market for high-def DVD, regardless of which format.

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post #478 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Considering the dismal number of PS3s that were shipped, I wonder whether this is correct. This is getting hilarious.

Dismal number? They are still well on track to greatly exceed the number of Xbox 360s sold a year ago. Even based on the lowest estimates and as of last Friday, we have 90K sold in Japan and 125K sold in North America. Unless 130K+ HD-DVD add-ons have been sold (highly unlikely), Blu-ray is clearly in the lead.

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post #479 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by thomopolis View Post

The only negatives brought out by the game systems; the PS3 has effectively made it unrealistic for CE companies to sell BD players over $500 in any kind of quantity.

How does this make other BD player models any less likely than the $499 Toshiba model(s) do?

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post #480 of 3949 Old 11-24-2006, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Of course, it would be decided for them if either Toshiba decided they couldn't afford to fight an expensive, losing battle, or if Universal decided the Blu-ray pastures were too, umm, green.


You're getting ahead of yourself....perhaps your team should focus on getting BD disc sales equal to HD-DVD disc sales numbers before mapping out how the other team will fold up their tents and go home.
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