HiDef DVD News VII - News Only : AND WE MEAN IT: NEWS ONLY - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Five "in production" BD player devices (six when Pioneer releases), 50GB BD discs released and in production. That doesn't sound too shabby to me..

That is vs. four discontinued Tosh HD-DVD players (and clones) one USB addon drive (Xbox) and two Tosh players delayed due to parts/QC problems. I guess you're right. If you set the "bar" low enough, you can claim "success" at most any level of achievement..

b2b

Oh yay uh huh you win...

The fact that the second generation HD DVD machines are out in a couple of weeks and that they are still twice the price performance of the bluray machines doesn't factor at all, nuh uh

Put me in the quietly confident camp also - I'll leave the attacks to the other side...
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post #1082 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

How about this comment.. observations from the "real world" of consumers ???
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9054863

b2b

Gee whiz - you are now using a noob, with 3 posts, who doesn't have either player as your expert witness that the Toshibas don't work?

And should we take anything from the fact that your noob witness has already bought Bluray movies without a player - yet is "openminded"?

Anyhoo - anyone got some real news here?
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post #1083 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Just battlefield first aid. I tried not to shoot my own wounded when they are down on the ground in the field after they were just shooting in the same direction I was a momement ago. Even innacurate allies are useful in supressing enemy fire so the more talented warriors can finish the battle.

I think there is a term for that..."Cannon fodder"...

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post #1084 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 11:26 AM
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in my engineering days, individuals that were seen as problems and that couldn't get the job done were "promoted out of the way" ...

BenDover: is that from personal experience
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post #1085 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 11:47 AM
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Rob, here's my experience. Personally my company has sold over 3000 HD DVD players and have taken back 5 units, 3 of which I am personally using and have no trouble whatsoever.

I have also helped a few HD DVD owners expedite their repair/replacement HD DVD playas with Toshiba, but in no way is the A1, D1 XA1 or RCA HD DVD player having any serious problem or high rate of defect. IN fact, the reliability is excellent.

I have seen hundreds of Samsung players being returned. The Panasonic BMP-BD10 has been a very nice player and to date I have only seen 1 defective unit.

I expect the HD DVD G2 players to be fast and glitch free.

Robert: how many Samsungs have you sold?
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post #1086 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by What'sHD View Post

hoo mama
If ever the chips are down, I want you on my side, dude. Way to support the team

Not so much with the logic though

Perhaps MS-DVD started paying overtime for Saturdays.
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post #1087 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 11:55 AM
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HD DVD spec doesn't mandate/require 60i out...please stop trying to spread FUD...did you forget your own "FUD for idiots" post already

no Ben, it requires all work on the player all internal processing be done in 60i
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post #1088 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 12:00 PM
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Not a penny coming this way boys, although I would consider any offers to support the things I think are the best of breed. Just fighting for truth justice and the American way.

I like do like HD DVD now, although I consider myself a HD fanatic first and foremost. I also want Blu-ray to improve since I think Sony will not abandon it for a long time. I am open to Blu-ray when it is a cost effective solution that works as well as HD DVD does now at a competitive price.

Kinda insulting to say so directly though, I don't even say that of some of the more passionate Blu-ray supporters.

BTW saying MS-DVD is as inflammatory as Blurray and is kinda frowned upon here.

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post #1089 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Not a penny coming this way boys, although I would consider any offers to support the things I think are the best of breed. Just fighting for truth justice and the American way.

I like do like HD DVD now, although I consider myself a HD fanatic first and foremost. I also want Blu-ray to improve since I think Sony will not abandon it for a long time. I am open to Blu-ray when it is a cost effective solution that works as well as HD DVD does now at a competitive price.

Kinda insulting to say so directly though, I don't even say that of some of the more passionate Blu-ray supporters.

BTW saying MS-DVD is as inflammatory as Blurray and is kinda frowned upon here.

So you consider associating MS with HD-DVD (in a humorous sort of way) a derogatory statement ?? Actually considering how much MS technology is built into HD-DVD (VC-1, HDi, AACS (MS was the primary developer) and now the second wave of HW products being from MS, the term is pretty well founded in reality...

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post #1090 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 12:16 PM
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Nah only humorous. I see the evil knife twisting irony in it. But I also see Blur-ray is the same way, it highlights the initial fault and PQ problems in the Blu-ray initial releases.

But I think the common use of either of those terms cause people to go insane here, and the mods don;t like it, so I proposed a cease fire on their use.

I have seen the mods lock this thread and delete posts when people were talking back and forth using that term and some other misspellings for Blu-ray so I wanted to steer away from it.

Quote:


So you consider associating MS with HD-DVD (in a humorous sort of way) a derogatory statement ??

I do consider implying I am paid by MSFT to post here kinda insulting as you would if I said that Sony was paying you for your own post count.

I post here because I believe in what I say and I think I am contributing to the discussion. I read your posts and others because I learn some things and am entertained by others.

I am glad you post here. I hope you keep it up. I hope others think the same for my contributions here as well.

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post #1091 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 12:22 PM
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No matter how you spin it, HD DVD and the Xbox 360 movie player add on are exceeding sales expectations, the PS3 and the more expensive Blu-ray players are below sales expectations.

Thats a reality to the studios and may affect content availability after the new year.

Kosty: exactly how many add-ons nand HD DVDs have sold.
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post #1092 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 12:50 PM
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I dunno. At least 200 in my local market from my conversations with managers in my big box retailers and game shops. And my market is around 150-200 largest nationally. Several of them have already gone through and sold their second shipments. Sales were better than they expected, as most of them admit the 360 add on was not on their radar screens.

So low end just by my measly little market x 200 markets is 200 x 200 is 40,000 plus sold to date.

Iif I had to guess, I would double that figure and say 60,000 to 80,000 have been sold to date, based on the fact that supply seems to be just ahead of demand at this point.

Surprising thing is that some of those guys are telling me that a lot of people are buying both a new HD DVD player add on and a new Xbox 360 at the same time. That was unexpected thing to a couple of guys I talked to. They never thought someone who was just buying a new Xbox would get the HD DVD drive at the same time.

I thought I saw a VB link that estimated 50,000 Xbox add ons sold, but I can't find the link.

Anyone else have it?

What % of Xbox owners will buy the HD DVD movie player add on is anyones guess.
http://nexgenwars.com/

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post #1093 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack View Post

The fewer the companies involved, and the fewer the implentation variations, the smoother deploying a new technology goes. If all the BD companies were making HD-DVD, I have no doubt there would be plenty of issues, both public and private. These are very complex specs with lots of room for interpretation on how do things.

So true. When the first upscaling DVD players came out, the Samsung one couldn't do 1080i with my Toshiba set. The HDCP handshake would fail. Samsung said the reason was a different interpretation on how to handle some situation.

They provided a firmware update, and all was fine. But it shows what can happen.

The BDA is doing interoperability testing to avoid that specific issue, aren't they?

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post #1094 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

I thought I saw a VB link that estimated 50,000 Xbox add ons sold, but I can't find the link.

Another recent link referenced (without a link) a VB article saying an industry insider said the number was 100K.

The thing is, they are easily available (right now, 25 are stacked up at my local BB). And if $200 is the magic price point, I would have hoped to see a heck of a lot sold.

If we eliminate all those who buy Xbox 360s and PS/3s, where is the mass market for HD coming from?

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Originally Posted by kosty View Post

Well the estimate he made two months ago of 200,000 Xbox 360 HD DVD movie player add on sales by Nov 14th does seem to be overly exuberant. As well as 300,000 HD DVD players sold. But his sins seem to be in the estimate of the time that those milestones will be reached, not when. Those are at least possibilities that may happen in the future, even if his sense of timing of them is premature.

Couldn't the same thing be said for the PS/3? It will hit the numbers eventually too.

Hype is hype. How fair is it to attack one side's and forgive the other's?

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post #1095 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

What % of Xbox owners will buy the HD DVD movie player add on is anyones guess.
http://nexgenwars.com/

At this rate, it will be Apple and Sun arguing who has the better OS.

1.1 million Wii in two weeks?! That is going to absolutely murder both sides.

Gary


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post #1096 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Thanks for the clarification. Is it possible for there to be a Blu-ray authoring suite like this or does the encryption issues make this kind of home authoring impossible for Blu-ray?

I would think so, but is red laser authoring on DVD-R a sure thing or is it prohibited? If so why haven't we seen an authoring suite released?

This isn't prohibited - AACS is only required on replicated (i.e. stamped) discs, not duplicated (i.e. burned). You can absolutely author to DVD-R. Authoring suites aren't out because PC-based playback suites are barely out (only bundled with Blu-ray equipped PC's for the most part). They'll come, but it takes time for the authoring tools vendors to determine what the right features and user interfaces are for the non-professional public.

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post #1097 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

The $1,000 BD player you just bought a few months ago plays almost all BDs and that's a "gotcha."

There are plenty of people with the Samsung who can play Speed fine. There are people with the Samsung who couldn't play one disc and then could play another copy. I've seen no reports of non-Samsung players having any trouble. The net? It appears there is some borderline condition between the Samsung and certain pressings of Speed resulting in incompatibility. This sort of behavior was common in the early days of DVD and certainly doesn't suggest Fox was somehow blatantly negligent in their QA.

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post #1098 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 02:26 PM
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I do consider implying I am paid by MSFT to post here kinda insulting as you would if I said that Sony was paying you for your own post count.

I do think the frequent and ardent posters should disclose (or deny) any financial incentives they or a relative may have with any of the subject parties.
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post #1099 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

Robert: how many Samsungs have you sold?

Anthony, I asked something similar to him. Although, I asked how many of the returned Samsung players were defective (after he gave number for A1). I didn't get an answer. In the absence of an answer I am guessing that most of the returned Samsung players were not defective!

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post #1100 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

There are plenty of people with the Samsung who can play Speed fine. There are people with the Samsung who couldn't play one disc and then could play another copy. I've seen no reports of non-Samsung players having any trouble. The net? It appears there is some borderline condition between the Samsung and certain pressings of Speed resulting in incompatibility. This sort of behavior was common in the early days of DVD and certainly doesn't suggest Fox was somehow blatantly negligent in their QA.

Thanks for the update. I saw the article last night on highdefdigest saying that a number of the Speed BDs didn't work specifically on the Samsung player and Fox is offering replacement discs to those affected.

Any ideas on why? It sound like the drive mechanism on the Samsung may be a little more touchy than the PS3.
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post #1101 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post

Another recent link referenced (without a link) a VB article saying an industry insider said the number was 100K.

The thing is, they are easily available (right now, 25 are stacked up at my local BB). And if $200 is the magic price point, I would have hoped to see a heck of a lot sold.

If we eliminate all those who buy Xbox 360s and PS/3s, where is the mass market for HD coming from?

There is no mass market for HD discs. Maybe some day...or maybe never. This is all about building early momentum and credibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post

Couldn't the same thing be said for the PS/3? It will hit the numbers eventually too.

Hype is hype. How fair is it to attack one side's and forgive the other's?
Gary

Yes, I see your point. So the hype of one AVS member is equivalent to the hype Sony corporation spreads to its investors, its studio partners and its customers?

The last I heard Sony was still saying they would ship 2 Million PS3s by 12/31/06 and 6 Million PS3s by March 07? Can the BD supporters go on the record and say if they believe Sony this time?
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post #1102 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 06:06 PM
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HD DVD playback and recording via red laser on conventional DVD blanks was among items approved at last week's DVD Forum Steering Committee. The blend of red laser DVDs and advanced compression systems has been embraced for HD DVD content playback and for disc-based HD camcorders. For playback, the DVD Forum already has approved the 3X HD DVD-ROM, a hybrid Warner devised for short-form videos. It would put content on regular DVDs, read by red lasers but compressed with MPEG-4/H.264-AVC or VC1 and spinning at 3 times DVD's speed to render HD DVD data rates and resolution.
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post #1103 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

I do think the frequent and ardent posters should disclose (or deny) any financial incentives they or a relative may have with any of the subject parties.

Sure, why not.

I am not now or have I ever been in the employ of any of the companies involved with HD-DVD or BD. I have never received any form of payment or compensation for services rendered to any of the corporations involved with either standard.

I owned a small number of shares of Microsoft stock about 5 - 6 years ago that I purchased on the open market. I sold those shares about a year later at a small profit. I currently have no shares in any of the companies involved with either standard.

I have been a customer of Microsoft in the past and have used their products in a personal and professional capacity. I currently own a Toshiba TV and a Sony DVD/SACD player. I have a Toshiba HD-DVD player on pre-order and plan to buy a PS3 as soon as I no longer have to worry about being injured as a result of buying one.

The robbers reportedly bum rushed the house with their eyes on the prize, tied up the victims with a PlayStation power cord, bolted out while laughing evilly, and then realized they needed the very cable they left behind. Similar to the crook who jacked a TV but returned for the remote, these guys apparently forgot the keys to pulling off an even marginally successful heist, but thankfully didn't harm the poor family they intruded upon. The wonders of humanity will never cease.

http://news.naikmichel.com/2006/11/2...g-playstation/

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post #1104 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

There are plenty of people with the Samsung who can play Speed fine. There are people with the Samsung who couldn't play one disc and then could play another copy. I've seen no reports of non-Samsung players having any trouble. The net? It appears there is some borderline condition between the Samsung and certain pressings of Speed resulting in incompatibility. This sort of behavior was common in the early days of DVD and certainly doesn't suggest Fox was somehow blatantly negligent in their QA.

I thought Fox handled this problem in a fantastic way by offering refunds or duplicate discs to anyone affected. Good for them and the people that brought up the problem.

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post #1105 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdragon View Post

Anthony, I asked something similar to him. Although, I asked how many of the returned Samsung players were defective (after he gave number for A1). I didn't get an answer. In the absence of an answer I am guessing that most of the returned Samsung players were not defective!

Per my conversation with him, I think its fair to say that most of his Samsung returns were not defective, its just that the buyers were dissatisfied with the performance and hence their value.

That was in contrast with the low return rate and high user satisfation with the HD A1 and HD XA2 models. Although they have ergonomic issues, most owners are well satisfied with them, at least well enough to keep them.

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post #1106 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Just battlefield first aid.

I tried not to shoot my own wounded when they are down on the ground in the field after they were just shooting in the same direction I was a moment ago.

Even inaccurate allies are useful in suppressing enemy fire so the more talented warriors can finish the battle.

You're a class act Kosty....I alwasy enjoy reading your posts as well as the many other great HD-DVD supporters. I won't name them all out of concern that I would forget someone. On the BD side, I enjoy b2b most (but there are others as well).

All of you help entertain, provoke thought and pass the time as we wait for more nuggets of news.
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post #1107 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

You're a class act Kosty....I alwasy enjoy reading your posts as well as the many other great HD-DVD supporters. I won't name them all out of concern that I would forget someone. On the BD side, I enjoy b2b most (but there are others as well).

All of you help entertain, provoke thought and pass the time as we wait for more nuggets of news.

Did you say nuggets... Now Collins* is saying 35,000 Toshiba players.
Quote:


How people have HD DVD players are out there now?

Kevin Collins: There are over 35,000 Toshiba HD DVD players and a second generation player coming out. From what I hear the Xbox 360 player has been flying off the shelves, particularly here in the LA area. However, we're still early.

http://www.socaltech.com/fullstory/0006501.html

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*note: Kevin Collins, Director of HD DVD Evangelism at Microsoft

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post #1108 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Did you say nuggets... Now Collins* is saying 35,000 Toshiba players.


http://www.socaltech.com/fullstory/0006501.html

b2b

*note: Kevin Collins, Director of HD DVD Evangelism at Microsoft

That's interesting....Kevin actually said over 35,000. Could he be down playing the numbers in the opposite fashion from the way Sony overplays them by saying 2 Millions PS3s by the end of the year?

By the way, still waiting for your answer. Do you believe Sony this time? 2 Million PS3s by 12/31/06 and 6 Million by March 07? Enquiring minds want to know.
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post #1109 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

That's interesting....Kevin actually said over 35,000. Could he be down playing the numbers in the opposite fashion from the way Sony overplays them by saying 2 Millions PS3s by the end of the year?

By the way, still waiting for your answer. Do you believe Sony this time? 2 Million PS3s by 12/31/06 and 6 Milliong by March 07? Enquiring minds want to know.

I will take a queue from the reverend Kevin and say "over 35,000", but in any event the PS3 will be the #1 HD movie disc device on either of those dates you mentioned...

b2b

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post #1110 of 3949 Old 12-02-2006, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

I do think the frequent and ardent posters should disclose (or deny) any financial incentives they or a relative may have with any of the subject parties.

Yes, it sure would put things in better focus.

It is "WOW" TV!
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