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post #91 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

Come on b2b. The guy even said "In terms of putting location tracking devices on each unit and having them report back to us--well that's a little difficult." So they don't know either. And we both know Sony didn't launch the number of units that they said they would, and some estimates have been half that.

"We're comfortable we'll have the 400,000 within a week." isn't the same as "We've currently shipped 400,000 this week." and you know it.

So maybe there is the answer everyone's looking for. Maybe Microsoft isn't going to try and speculate how many add-on's they've sold. Maybe they're waiting to get concrete numbers together.

Yeah, Sony hasn't had a problem quoting shipping numbers. They also haven't been right yet.

Well at least we have an idea, that Sony has an idea of a number (400,000). With the Xbox addon the only idea that Microsoft has given is ( ???? ).

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post #92 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by onanie View Post

Do you mean we can also do a poll on a PS3 fan site, and it will win the war for Sony? WOW!

Did you even read my original post ?
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post #93 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

Yeah, Sony hasn't had a problem quoting shipping numbers. They also haven't been right yet.

LOL. Good catch.
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post #94 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Why ? If I want to know the level of interest in AVS, this is the right poll.

True, but I thought you were actually curious about HD DVD sales rates. Also if you want to see a poll on the level of interest on the PS3 you will have to wait a few months until they are available on store shelves. Until than asking how many people have a PS3 is not really going to tell you how many people want one. A somewhat important difference in my opinion.


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Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

So is the wheel or the camera or ....

So your saying that Microsoft isn't going to release the sales numbers for HD DVD drives since they don't consider it any differently than those accessories? I guess that could be possible though considering how they promoted it earlier this year at CES I thought it was more important.


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Well, then again, let's see Sony's release numbers for the PS3. Exactly.

I would like to see that as well, but at least we know that between 200,000 and 400,000 of them have been released. We don't really have a clue how many Xbox 360 drives were released. For instance if someone said that only 10,000 HD DVD add-on drives were released could you prove them wrong?
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post #95 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 08:56 PM
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This is the HDTV Software Media Discussion Subforum.... how is it that a poll regarding users of Hi-Def media is inappropriately skewed for people discussing Hi-Def media??? Guess what, some of those AVS people buying the PS3 "may" be buying it exclusively for games!!! I very much doubt any of those HD-DVD Add-on folk are buying to play games only.

Cheers...
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post #96 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hdkhang View Post

Guess what, some of those AVS people buying the PS3 "may" be buying it exclusively for games!!!

True, and that certainly would be a factor in any poll that deals with PS3 owners and Blu-ray playback. One problem with that though is how do you know that someone who buys it only for games won't end up using it for Blu-ray playback?
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post #97 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 09:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

True, and that certainly would be a factor in any poll that deals with PS3 owners and Blu-ray playback. One problem with that though is how do you know that someone who buys it only for games won't end up using it for Blu-ray playback?

Nat doesn't know and (imo, based on months of observation) he fervently hopes (for the sake of HD-DVD) that it doesn't happen.

Whereas the corporations that support BD exclusively seem to think it will.

This pesky dilemma: Who to believe? Fortune 500 strategists or a stranger on AVS forum?


Ok, i have decided.. (i am a fast thinker, not)

I go with the people with the vision and experience in these matters, not those whose support (in my, possibly incorrect but quite strong, opinion) is determined by who they happen to be working for at the time of the format war.
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post #98 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by What'sHD View Post

He doesn't know and (imo) he fervently hopes (for the sake of HD-DVD) that it doesn't happen.

This makes no sense. Why should I care if someone uses their PS3 for BD playback? Thats like giving a damn if someone used their car to carry things other than people...

A simple poll suggested that there are more Add-on owners on AVS than are PS3 owners... this is hardly surprising as it is still very hard to get your hands on a PS3, I'm afraid I won't be able to get one when they land in Australia either and that's over 3 months away (luckily Ninja Gaiden Sigma isn't likely to launch by then either). From a Hi-Def perspective, being on a Hi-Def centric forum, it would seem that more people are watching Hi-Def media on the Add-on vs PS3, that is obvious enough even from a pure numbers point of view... but then there are also gamers on this forum, which don't have a care for Hi-Def media at this early point in the game which may have bought the PS3 for the gaming side exclusively, I know plenty of people who don't want to invest in Hi-Def media just yet. However the owners of the Add-on are exclusively movie watching purchases as that is all that peripheral is capable of. What is so damned hard to believe?

Cheers...
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post #99 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 09:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hdkhang View Post

This makes no sense. Why should I care if someone uses their PS3 for BD playback? Thats like giving a damn if someone used their car to carry things other than people...

I am sorry, dude. I was talking about the other dude, not you.

My bad for not clarifying
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post #100 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Did you even read my original post ?

Hmmm, it appears you haven't read mine, or it may have given you a case of occulogyric crisis.
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post #101 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 10:25 PM
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Well at least we have an idea, that Sony has an idea of a number (400,000). With the Xbox addon the only idea that Microsoft has given is ( ???? ).

Ok, let's clear something else up really quick. If you really want to get technical, the marketing guy was responding to a question on Forbes. I haven't seen any media journalist ask a Microsoft marketing rep how many add-ons they shipped. Maybe if someone asks them, they might answer it.

Now until then gaming companies like Microsoft and Sony don't issue press releases declaring how many things they've shipped. They never have, they likely never will. In my 6 years running Next Level Gaming I never once got a press release from Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, or Sega (when I ran Dreamcast HQ before that) telling us how many units they shipped out. When they are ready to announce their sales numbers, they will send out a press release. That's how it works.

And again I ask, why give a number out that you end up being wrong about? First it was 1 million at launch. Then it was 400,000 at launch. Now we don't even know if it was 200,000 at launch. That arguement of "at least we have an idea" is not valid here. The truth is we DON'T have an idea, and all we can do is speculate and try and figure out if Sony's numbers are right. So exactly how has this information even been useful?

If that's the case, Microsoft can easily come out and say they shipped 5 million add-on units and all you could do is speculate if they really did or not.
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post #102 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

Ok, let's clear something else up really quick. If you really want to get technical, the marketing guy was responding to a question on Forbes. I haven't seen any media journalist ask a Microsoft marketing rep how many add-ons they shipped. Maybe if someone asks them, they might answer it.

Now until then gaming companies like Microsoft and Sony don't issue press releases declaring how many things they've shipped. They never have, they likely never will. In my 6 years running Next Level Gaming I never once got a press release from Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, or Sega (when I ran Dreamcast HQ before that) telling us how many units they shipped out. When they are ready to announce their sales numbers, they will send out a press release. That's how it works.

And again I ask, why give a number out that you end up being wrong about? First it was 1 million at launch. Then it was 400,000 at launch. Now we don't even know if it was 200,000 at launch. That arguement of "at least we have an idea" is not valid here. The truth is we DON'T have an idea, and all we can do is speculate and try and figure out if Sony's numbers are right. So exactly how has this information even been useful?

If that's the case, Microsoft can easily come out and say they shipped 5 million add-on units and all you could do is speculate if they really did or not.

They have been asked, right here on AVS..
Quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP
Amir: I can understand both of them. But can you at least give us a ball park figure on how many MS thinks they will ship in 2006 or so far? are we talking 1M? or 10k? or 100k> or 200k like some are saying?

I am confused why it matters to you Anthony. I thought you were in blu-ray camp. Did you get a recent job as a market analyst?

But no, Xbox related data like this is highly confidential. Come and tell me something I don't know about PS3 shipment volumes and I might think about reciprocating...

__________________
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Ask me questions about HD DVD here

And here too..
Quote:


The $199 Xbox 360 add-on also posted strong sales out of the gate Nov. 13 and gave an unexpected sales boost to the Xbox 360 console, Microsoft senior program manager Kevin Collins said, while doing press demonstrations of HD DVD from the HD DVD Promotional Group's 18-wheeler parked on the Universal Studios backlot in Universal City, Calif., this week.

It's going right out, he said, declining to speak of initial units shipped. Stores are struggling to keep up with demand.

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.a...leid=CA6393228

There is your answer.. So much for asking..

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post #103 of 3949 Old 11-19-2006, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

Ok, let's clear something else up really quick. If you really want to get technical, the marketing guy was responding to a question on Forbes. I haven't seen any media journalist ask a Microsoft marketing rep how many add-ons they shipped. Maybe if someone asks them, they might answer it.

Now until then gaming companies like Microsoft and Sony don't issue press releases declaring how many things they've shipped. They never have, they likely never will. In my 6 years running Next Level Gaming I never once got a press release from Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, or Sega (when I ran Dreamcast HQ before that) telling us how many units they shipped out. When they are ready to announce their sales numbers, they will send out a press release. That's how it works.

And again I ask, why give a number out that you end up being wrong about? First it was 1 million at launch. Then it was 400,000 at launch. Now we don't even know if it was 200,000 at launch. That arguement of "at least we have an idea" is not valid here. The truth is we DON'T have an idea, and all we can do is speculate and try and figure out if Sony's numbers are right. So exactly how has this information even been useful?

If that's the case, Microsoft can easily come out and say they shipped 5 million add-on units and all you could do is speculate if they really did or not.

In sony's case, the shipment can't be much more than 400k. If Microsoft could just reveal how many they shipped, it could tell us whether selling "most" of it means anything significant in comparison.
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post #104 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 02:35 AM
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Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on reviewed on areadvd.de

Pros:
- Very good picture quality
- Reduced access time
- Great value for money

Cons:
- Perceptible console noise
- Slight dynamic range compression when playing back DD+ tracks
- Playback of Dolby True HD and DTS HD tracks only possible via conversion

All in all, it gets a "Very Good" rating, and a 10/10 rating for value.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
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post #105 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post


....

And again I ask, why give a number out that you end up being wrong about? First it was 1 million at launch. Then it was 400,000 at launch. Now we don't even know if it was 200,000 at launch. That arguement of "at least we have an idea" is not valid here. The truth is we DON'T have an idea, and all we can do is speculate and try and figure out if Sony's numbers are right. So exactly how has this information even been useful?

...

for the life of me i can't figure out why the "ardent bd supporters" ignore this while trying to crucify hd dvd/ms for everything, including a "dongle"
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post #106 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 06:36 AM
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MediaTek and Sunext reportedly more aggressive on Blu-Ray chip Schedule

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MediaTek and Sunext Technology, a subsidiary of Sunplus Technology, will launch chips for Blu-ray drives next year, earlier than their scheduled launch of chips for HD-DVD drives, according to the Chinese-language Economic Daily News (EDN).

MediaTek has sent samples of chips for Blu-ray and HD-DVD drives to customers, including Lite-On IT, Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics (LGE), while Sunext will launch Blu-ray drive chips first and chips supporting both Blu-ray and HD-DVD drives later, the paper reported.

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post #107 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 07:58 AM
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b2b, you've got to be kidding us. By having someone on this forum ask Amir and he not giving an answer is not the same as a legitimate interview sanctioned by the company to talk to their PR man. Give at least this one a rest. The truth is PR men are also called spindoctors for a reason. They are good at answering a question that can be quoted without actually answering the question.

So what are you trying to prove, that someone did ask MS and they declined to give #'s? Or that Sony's #'s have to be right because they gave us one?

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post #108 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 08:42 AM
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Thank you, Paul, you beat me to it. Asking a senior program manager or a technical developer is not the same as asking a marketing or PR person. In fact, I would venture a guess that subject is something Amir is not even allowed to talk about, much less would know the answer to.
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post #109 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Seng View Post

b2b, you've got to be kidding us. By having someone on this forum ask Amir and he not giving an answer is not the same as a legitimate interview sanctioned by the company to talk to their PR man. Give at least this one a rest. The truth is PR men are also called spindoctors for a reason. They are good at answering a question that can be quoted without actually answering the question.

So what are you trying to prove, that someone did ask MS and they declined to give #'s? Or that Sony's #'s have to be right because they gave us one?

Kind of like this.?? "They are selling like hotcakes.. can barely keep up..."
Quote:


Kevin Collins said, while doing press demonstrations of HD DVD from the HD DVD Promotional Group's 18-wheeler parked on the Universal Studios backlot in Universal City, Calif., this week.

It's going right out, he said, declining to speak of initial units shipped. Stores are struggling to keep up with demand.

Yup, that's some good spinning...

b2b

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post #110 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Kind of like this.?? "They are selling like hotcakes.. can barely keep up..."
b2b

At my local Best Buy, two (2) XBox HD DVD players on the shelf, PS3 display ONLY. Interesting, did not expect to see either?

It is "WOW" TV!
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post #111 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:19 AM
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Hello

may I remind posters it is OK to question technical facts of a post...

but never bash or attack another member: regardless of your post count

Thanks


some [more]threads deleted

please take the high road in every post
if you see a problematic post, please do not quote it or respond to it: report it to the mods to handle
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post #112 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by onanie View Post

Hmmm, it appears you haven't read mine, or it may have given you a case of occulogyric crisis.

lol
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post #113 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:39 AM
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Blu-ray Disc Gets in Front of Target Market with Launch of High-Definition TV Advertising

High-Def TV, Print and Web Work Focal Points of Extended Marketing Campaign


AUSTIN, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--A core group of Blu-ray Disc supporters including Twentieth Century Fox, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Sony and Warner Bros., working with Austin-based advertising and marketing agency, SicolaMartin, is utilizing the power of high-definition television along with a series of advertising and marketing initiatives to reach target audiences during the holiday shopping season. In order to best demonstrate the benefits of the Blu-ray Disc next-generation optical disc format, the group has produced a 30-second commercial shot for high-definition television that debuted on November 17. This spot, along with broader placement in print and online media outlets, builds upon earlier advertising efforts directed at home-entertainment enthusiasts. (Ad may be viewed at http://www.sicolamartin.com/bluraybroadcast/)


http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...80&newsLang=en

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post #114 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:41 AM
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Sony DADC 50 GB Blu-ray Up and Running

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Sony DADC has announced that they now have six 50 GB Blu-ray Disc production lines up and running.

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In addition to the six dual layer lines currently running, the company has nine 25 GB Blu-ray Disc production machines in operation and has shipped over three million Blu-ray Discs for a client base of over 35 customers since beginning production in May of this year.

Sony DADC's Terre Haute facility also has two Phase Transition Mastering (PTM) systems and has been mastering 50 GB discs since mid-September 2006. Over 130 BD titles have been mastered, which include both 25 and 50 GB titles. Both PTM machines are capable of mastering PS3 titles as well. Sony DADC has three fully integrated Blu-ray packaging lines, all of which are fully operational and capable of supporting video and PS3 titles in both 25 GB and 50 GB formats.



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post #115 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post

has shipped over three million Blu-ray Discs

Let me be the first to suggest that at least 2 million of those are PS3 game discs. (Even 2 million game discs would not fulfill a very high attach rate for consoles sold in 2006.)
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post #116 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Zassk View Post

Let me be the first to suggest that at least 2 million of those are PS3 game discs. (Even 2 million game discs would not fulfill a very high attach rate for consoles sold in 2006.)

Very likely. Perhaps more.

But, like HD DVD, this is SHIPPED not sold. People like counting attach rate chickens before they hatch.

Gary


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post #117 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:58 AM
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A core group of Blu-ray Disc supporters including Twentieth Century Fox, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Sony and Warner Bros.

Interesting to see WB as part of the "core group" of BD supporters, and in the same token, Disney is not listed.

All of this being said, it just seems the industry support for BD is overwhelming at this point. I'm starting to think HD DVD is really facing an uphill battle, despite what some people who post here would have us believe. If this is the way the industry wants it to be, then let's end this thing once and for all and everyone move forward...
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post #118 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:42 AM
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Yeah it definitely looks that way to me. I still want to get an HD-XA1 and already have a 360 so the dongle looks attractive (especially at the sub $200 prices it can be had for), but have a bit of a long term worry that HDCP gets turned on and turns my dongle into something barely better than a normal DVD player... Concerns of the format dying are far more real for me than with Blu-ray since even if Sony gave up on all arms (CE, content, PC), Blu-ray will still have double the branded players and much more content exclusive to them...

At this point the add-on looks like a no-brainer, though to stay neutral in the format war even if I really don't like the aesthetics.

-- "No matter where you go, there you are."

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post #119 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

And again I ask, why give a number out that you end up being wrong about? First it was 1 million at launch. Then it was 400,000 at launch. Now we don't even know if it was 200,000 at launch. That arguement of "at least we have an idea" is not valid here. The truth is we DON'T have an idea, and all we can do is speculate and try and figure out if Sony's numbers are right. So exactly how has this information even been useful?

If that's the case, Microsoft can easily come out and say they shipped 5 million add-on units and all you could do is speculate if they really did or not.

Sony and Microsoft are both public companies. Claiming to have shipped a given quantity when in fact it's a different reality would have dire consequences with investors, the SEC, and others. That's very different than estimating a volume which will be shipped and not reaching that figure, although if one can prove the company knew at the time they claimed that shipment volume that they couldn't possibly meet it could also have ramifications.

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post #120 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

for the life of me i can't figure out why the "ardent bd supporters" ignore this while trying to crucify hd dvd/ms for everything, including a "dongle"

Because the number shipped last week is fairly meaningless, since it appears Sony will sell everything they can produce in the next six months, and all indications are that they are ramping production. So if they sold 400K units last week or it happens next week, and if they've sold 1M by the end of November or by the end of December just doesn't matter that much, since they will very likely have sold millions come next spring.

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