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post #181 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:05 PM
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More of a neutral look between the formats.

Time.com: PS3 vs XBOX 360 HD DVD
http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...561457,00.html

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post #182 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:41 PM
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So how many times are the HD-DVD fans going to post about the same two articles... ?? So are Seth and Lev the new wizards of gaming ??

If I'm a HD DVD fan, its because its delivered. I'll be a Blu-ray fan too when it delivers value. I'm really a HD lover.

I posted because I thought noone else had posted the significance of those major publications hitting at the same time and the mention of the missing cables as being noticed by both writers.

BTW B2, you seem amazingly well prepared and researched, almost as if your in anti - HD DVD pro - Blu-ray opposition research.

Having a positive review of a consumer product is not always the same thing as being in someones pocket.

The point was, valid views or not, the prominance of the media outlet was a significant factor. I'm sure you would be shouting if they had been positive reviews.

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post #183 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

If I'm a HD DVD fan, its because its delivered. I'll be a Blu-ray fan too when it delivers value. I'm really a HD lover.

I posted because I thought noone else had posted the significance of those major publications hitting at the same time and the mention of the missing cables as being noticed by both writers.

BTW B2, you seem amazingly well prepared and researched, almost as if your in anti - HD DVD pro - Blu-ray opposition research.

Having a positive review of a consumer product is not always the same thing as being in someones pocket.

The point was, valid views or not, the prominance of the media outlet was a significant factor. I'm sure you would be shouting if they had been positive reviews.

What is amazing is to see that level of propaganda so well placed and at the level it was published. As far as being prepared, all that took was 5 mins. on google and another 10 looking at what those guys were all about. One guy is a general purpose writer and the other is so in love with Microsoft, his review is almost as biased as if Bill Gates wrote it himself.

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post #184 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

We do? Can you provide some links so that we can all partake in the deals??

ooh, a (wanna-be) funny man

hint: think of it as a royal We for all i care. I honestly cant be bothered to debate about the PS3 as decent BD player point anymore when I see sarcasm. Enjoy the subsidized toshiba or the 200 USD add-on..

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post #185 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Because it's the right thing to do.

smith dude, you accidentally misunderstood what Anthony said or you delibrately misquoted him.

Imo, he said "why should I" in response to your "request" for a gushing review , not taking the high road

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post #186 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:15 PM
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From Variety on Sunday (not a good weekend for Blu-ray press)

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...goryid=20&cs=1

Quote:
PS3 plays Blu-ray DVDs, and the success of the machine may well determine the fate of the format. Simply put, if the 400,00 units Sony is shipping to North America don't convert enough people to Blu-ray, it may prompt a lot of studios to shift their allegiances to Toshiba's rival HD-DVD.

Quote:
There's a long way to go before Redmond becomes the go-to place for studios -- in fact, besides podcasts, firm isn't offering any video content on Zune at the time of release -- but the brains behind Zune is Microsoft hipster J. Allard, a thirtysomething who's viewed as being deeply in touch with the youth culture Hollywood so wants to reach.

And reviews note that the Zune's video display is in many ways superior to the latest video iPod. That could make Microsoft aggressive about going after TV shows and movies. That's a form of Microsoft aggression entertainment execs would love.

Gee Hollywood warming up to Microsoft and getting impatient with Sony and the PS3 adn Blu-ray promises?

Maybe a negative reaction to the PS3 is getting into the Zeitgeist. That would be a problem for Blu-ray as a format.

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post #187 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

What is amazing is to see that level of propaganda so well placed and at the level it was published. As far as being prepared, all that took was 5 mins. on google and another 10 looking at what those guys were all about. One guy is a general purpose writer and the other is so in love with Microsoft, his review is almost as biased as if Bill Gates wrote it himself.

b2b

I especially love the quote by Lev to the effect that no one cares about the BD drive in the PS3 (which is the reason he mentions for the PS3s price)

It is heartening to know that reviewers in major international mags use a broad, long-term perspective instead of their short-term, immediate gratification level to make recommendations to their readers

Imo, it smacks of ignorance (unpardonable in such a position) or old prejudices (even worse)
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post #188 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

What is amazing is to see that level of propaganda so well placed and at the level it was published. As far as being prepared, all that took was 5 mins. on google and another 10 looking at what those guys were all about. One guy is a general purpose writer and the other is so in love with Microsoft, his review is almost as biased as if Bill Gates wrote it himself.

Effective PR and the bandwagon effect for press coverage are significant events. Its kinda irrelevant if one disagrees with them if they become conventional wisdom.

What we are seeing is not propaganda, that was Sony's and other Blu-ray supporters comments on the superiority of the PS3 before its release.

Now we are seeing criticisms based on performance and usability in the hands of reviewers and consumers. If a lot of these articles start saying the same thing, its irrelevant where they started. Its also harder to be critical of the writer when he is saying the same thing as others.

That's why I was observing that those articles are bad news for Blu-ray, because they are mainstream articles that others refer to.

No matter how you spin it, its not good news for Blu-ray.

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post #189 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

So how many times are the HD-DVD fans going to post about the same two articles... ?? So are Seth and Lev the new wizards of gaming ??



And Seth fell into MS's backpocket over a year ago..

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/25/ar...f25794&ei=5070

b2b

You're good b2b....

I'm on vacation and just catching up. Although I really want to reply back to Richard Paul's last response to me, I find you sucking me in to respond to this one instead.

I copied this from my 11/15 post on the last thread. You seemed to be actively posting at the time as well....but maybe you missed it.


Let's see what third party reviewers are saying.....uh oh.....

Sony's console in last place? Who would've thunk it?
http://www.revolutionportal.com/200...s3-vs-xbox-360/

We like the Wii
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/bu...AF?OpenDocument

I can't recommend the PS3 for this season
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/merc...ss/16000173.htm

Wait.....news flash.....

PS3 Allotment Cut Again?
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/746/746181p1.html

What will retailers do?

PlayStation 3 is sold out. How about an Xbox 360 bundle?
http://www.revolutionportal.com/


I think the PS3 is still alive and well as a low cost BD player. It may very well end up that Merril Lynch is right, and that this round of the console wars will go to Microsoft. Too much sizzle, not enough steak.

I've read lots of reviews that compare 360 vs PS3 and in many cases include Wii into the comparison as well. The PS3 never fares well in any of the comparisons I've found to date.

Ironically, this may be good for BD. If many gamers start to view the PS3 as overhyped, it may become easier for guys like me (who want a subsidized BD player) to actually get their hands on one.
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post #190 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

I'm thinking 259K PS3s at launch. Not quite 2,000,000 at launch. oh well. Not quite the truth, yet again...Thanks for everything Sony.

I own a PS3 and if anything I am more confident that Blu-ray will win this format war from what I have seen of it so far. Also Mike I am a little skeptical you would have wanted Sony to meet their original launch estimate.


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Originally Posted by g55555sim View Post

sorry to break it to you pal but BDA doesnt care if the PS3 purchasers use the console to watch BD movies. They just want a sale figure. Their PR is already utilising the sales figure of PS3 when we all know that those who lined up for days to get the console most probably wont use the console for movies.

Well good to see that you are so sure about that. Personally though I think as time goes on many PS3 owners will try Blu-ray and that is in addition to the increasing number of PS3 owners. Not saying that the PS3 will make Blu-ray the winner of this format war, but I think it will be one of the reasons that Blu-ray will win.


Quote:
Originally Posted by g55555sim View Post

You my dear is sanctioning what they are doing.

How? Was it by buying the PS3 or was it by playing Blu-ray movies on it? Seriously g55555sim you should calm down and I only stated the obvious fact that any PS3 owner who wants to play a Blu-ray movie can do so.
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post #191 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

I've read lots of reviews that compare 360 vs PS3 and in many cases include Wii into the comparison as well. The PS3 never fares well in any of the comparisons I've found to date.

Ironically, this may be good for BD. If many gamers start to view the PS3 as overhyped, it may become easier for guys like me (who want a subsidized BD player) to actually get their hands on one.

Agree. I hope so too, for 2007 at least.

But I will add two dissenting points:

1. CNET, as an example, rated the PS3 higher than the 360

2. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Lets see the market nos. If 3rd party reviewers really carry that much weight, the console war is MS' to lose
(which they will manage to do as soon as they think they have won)
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post #192 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

Maybe I should inform Sony they can buy a hdmi cable from monoprice for as low as $5 or less. Does seem weird they didn't include a $5 cable in a $600 system.

Anyone who already owns a PS2 (many multiples those who own both the original XBox and the 360 combined) and already have the AV-multi-out component cables can already match the best form available from the 360 and with a fraction of the noise for nothing. Or find them for $20 (Amazon). The spectre of ICT should haunt both of these options though. The PS3 people can look to Monoprice, but where does that leave us 360 Add-on owners?

I am very much enjoying my new HD-DVD add-on (for $159 it just wasn't feasable for me to consider the gigantic and quirky XA1, as beautiful as it is, for over twice the price). The PS3 OTOH, has very many movies I was drooling over today at Best Buy (Kingdom of Heaven DC & Black Hawk Down most prominently) that I am unfortunately unlikely to ever see on HD-DVD.

As a recent demo showed from an ISF calibrated 1080p Qualia 006, there is no quantifiable performance difference between the formats, leaving only the content. Right now, HD-DVD has the edge, but they're losing ground very quickly and unless they can crack the BD exclusives, I fear they're just not going to have enough to offer...

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post #193 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

snip...there is no quantifiable performance difference between the formats, leaving only the content. Right now, HD-DVD has the edge, but they're losing ground very quickly and unless they can crack the BD exclusives, I fear they're just not going to have enough to offer...

clear, even-handed post
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post #194 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Effective PR and the bandwagon effect for press coverage are significant events. Its kinda irrelevant if one disagrees with them if they become conventional wisdom.

What we are seeing is not propaganda, that was Sony's and other Blu-ray supporters comments on the superiority of the PS3 before its release.

Now we are seeing criticisms based on performance and usability in the hands of reviewers and consumers. If a lot of these articles start saying the same thing, its irrelevant where they started. Its also harder to be critical of the writer when he is saying the same thing as others.

That's why I was observing that those articles are bad news for Blu-ray, because they are mainstream articles that others refer to.

No matter how you spin it, its not good news for Blu-ray.

I'm not really going to get into some long debate over two guys opinions printed in yesterdays fish wrapper. All of this is going to play out over time and if the PS3 is truly as bad as these guys seem to think, then hundreds of thousands of people are really going to be pissed and let the world know it. And yes they should have put at least a component cable in the box, but I sure people still get mad when they buy things "batteries not included"..

b2b

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post #195 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:54 PM
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I'm surprised at the fact because of its price/performance and availablity the Wii may impact PS3 sales and thus influence the Blu-ray HD DVD struggle.

Have not heard the Wii mentioned much herem becasue it does not have a HD drive but if it does suck sales from the PS3 for families, that may affect many Blu-ray movies the PS3 sells.

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post #196 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

I'm not really going to get into some long debate over two guys opinions printed in yesterdays fish wrapper. All of this is going to play out over time and if the PS3 is truly as bad as these guys seem to think, then hundreds of thousands of people are really going to be pissed and let the world know it. And yes they should have put at least a component cable in the box, but I sure people still get mad when they buy things "batteries not included"..

Agree. But I think most other reviewers will give the PS3 better marks. But those articles may open the floodgates to other criticisms.

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post #197 of 3949 Old 11-20-2006, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

I own a PS3 and if anything I am more confident that Blu-ray will win this format war from what I have seen of it so far.

Are you planning on posting any reviews over in the Blu-Ray section ?? I would be interested in seeing what you honestly think of the box.

b2b

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post #198 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Are you planning on posting any reviews over in the Blu-Ray section ?? I would be interested in seeing what you honestly think of the box.

I plan to do a complete review of the PS3 so I most likely won't get around to posting it for at least another week or two.
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post #199 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Agree. But I think most other reviewers will give the PS3 better marks. But those articles may open the floodgates to other criticisms.

Given the amount of effort that MS has put into badmouthing the PS3, that wouldn't be surprising.

It's going to take months to see if the HW is stable and how the SW starts to mature. One thing I did read was that one game came with its own patch to 1.02 and it loaded before the game started. Don't know if I really like that approach, but it was interesting.

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post #200 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 03:14 AM
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Sony DADC 50 GB Blu-ray Up and Running

*********

Microsoft shares get lift from upgrade

Credit Suisse raised its rating on Microsoft Corp. to "outperform" from "neutral," saying the stock could appreciate nearly 20 percent from current levels due to the company's strengthening market position in

digital entertainment, among other reasons. I hope Amir, Ben et al get a big Christmas bonus. They deserve it.

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post #201 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 03:58 AM
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More analysts weigh in on the quantity of PS3s sold.

Sony May Have Missed PlayStation 3 Goal, Analysts Say (Update2)

Quote:


Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Sony Corp. may have missed its goal of having 400,000 PlayStation 3 consoles in U.S. stores for the video-game player's Nov. 17 debut, analysts said.
...
More than half the 150 stores checked by Kaufman Bros. said they wouldn't have enough units to cover preorders, according to a Nov. 16 research note by retail analyst SooAnn Roberts. She predicts Sony will ship no more than 200,000 units to the U.S. this year.

Savner said in a Nov. 7 report that Sony would miss its target. Gikas said in a Nov. 16 note that he expected 200,000 PlayStation 3s available at the U.S. launch and 400,000 by year- end.

Even worse than previous estimates...
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post #202 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

No HD-DVD products on shelves = no sales

btw, that's the reality...

b2b

ummm, no bd products on shelves = no sales ?

[EDIT: I find this amusing since I can recall you doing this when you adamantly arguing that the players were not selling and were sitting on shelves everywhere:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Toshi...oshiba+hd+dvd]
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post #203 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Maybe a negative reaction to the PS3 is getting into the Zeitgeist. That would be a problem for Blu-ray as a format.

We'll see. Meanwhile, here is a review from someone who should know what they are talking about... http://www.avrev.com/equip/playstation_3/

A very nice and thorough review. Sure, there are downsides they say, but at the end they provide this little nugget:

Quote:


In the 10 year history of AVRev.com, we have never ever suggested our readers pay above retail for a product before, but Playstation 3 is so impressive we might need to break that tradition. The Sony Playstation 3 is beyond the Holiday season’s hot gift. The PS3 is ground-breaking technology, and the most significant convergence component ever sold.


(Enter HD DVD folks saying he is a Sony-bitch....)

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post #204 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 04:36 AM
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Hollywoodland (HD DVD) in February

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post #205 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 05:46 AM
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I will be interested to see the PS3 sales curve after the first million or so sell to the hardcore, money is no object 20 somethings. Not that many families will spend 5-600 during a non-holiday...
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post #206 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by price3 View Post

I will be interested to see the PS3 sales curve after the first million or so sell to the hardcore, money is no object 20 somethings. Not that many families will spend 5-600 during a non-holiday...

One's who are looking for a low cost BD player will, and ofcourse the rabid gameboys always will.

It is "WOW" TV!
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post #207 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 06:16 AM
 
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"a little quick math will show that if this system lives up to its hype as a game system and has quality Blu-ray playback, there is an argument to be made that this is the most well-priced and important video game system in history."

"The PS3 is ground-breaking technology, and the most significant convergence component ever sold."



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post #208 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

ummm, no bd products on shelves = no sales ?

[EDIT: I find this amusing since I can recall you doing this when you adamantly arguing that the players were not selling and were sitting on shelves everywhere:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Toshi...oshiba+hd+dvd]

That was three months ago. Those A1s have been "going, going; gone" now for forever. I guess they keep finding a few pallets at a time that were lost in the Toshiba warehouse.

That blows a hole in the "70,000 units have been sold" theory too.

b2b

"Listen, You Pencil Neck Geeks.." 'Classy' Freddie Blassie ~ 1918-2003
A Toshiba spokesman, said that "from an engineer's point of view, the Blu-ray is a masterpiece.."
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post #209 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 06:20 AM
 
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also

"From a normal seating distance the picture was not just impressive to the videophile, it is so noticeably better than DVD grandma will start dropping hints that she wants a Blu-ray player for Christmas."


the masterplan is working baby
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post #210 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 06:28 AM
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[quote=nilsp]We'll see. Meanwhile, here is a review from someone who should know what they are talking about... http://www.avrev.com/equip/playstation_3/

Same guy wrote about quality of Blu-Ray movies:
'You have poor with The Terminator, good with The Fifth Element and 50 First Dates, and then you have unbelievable, call-your-friends-and-invite-them-over-now good with xXx and The House of Flying Daggers. '

He really knows what he is talking about!!!
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