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post #211 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

smithfarmer:

...

Unlike you, I do have friends

...

Wow.

-Steve
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post #212 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

More analysts weigh in on the quantity of PS3s sold.

Sony May Have Missed PlayStation 3 Goal, Analysts Say (Update2)

Even worse than previous estimates...

Mike if you look hard enough, I'll bet you can find a analyst somewhere that is saying that no PS3 were available and it was all an elaborate hoax...

And if you look real close at some the demand curves, the Xbox is quickly becoming the "man in the middle" squeezed at both the top end by the PS3 and very much so at the bottom end with the Wii. Plus Sony is still selling the PS2 and expects to do very well with it for the Holidays also.

Price curve... PS2 -> Wii -> Xbox -> PS3

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post #213 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 10:07 AM
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another puzzling review; i hope it is simply that the developers are coming up to speed on coding for the ps3 and they rectify that soon:

Quote:


Based on criteria like this, it's hard to imagine COD not impressing. After all, it sounds exciting, so where are all the pitfalls? Unfortunately, they can be found everywhere... especially if you've played the Xbox 360 version released earlier in the year. A quick comparison reveals those differences right off the bat. Be it with multiplayer options and online capabilities (360 has a point system and voice support, PS3 doesn't), or the visuals (Xbox moves at a smoother framerate with few hitches, while the PS3 version stutters often and boasts a more "washed out" color palette).


But even if you go in never having played the Xbox 360 version, Call of Duty 3's two biggest problems are still its level design and high bug count. The former isn't as bad as the latter; final stages like The Mace, Chambois, and the Corridor of Death help us forget the more straightforward and generic-feeling earlier levels (which can still be fun, they're just familiar). The constant glitches and freeze-ups, however, are downright deplorable. In the 10 hours we spent with the single-player campaign, we had to restart a checkpoint five to six times because certain flags wouldn't activate (i.e., doors that were supposed to open didn't, walls that were supposed to break wouldn't, and characters that were supposed to die couldn't).

review from ign.com: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/746/746533p2.html

the mighty cell shouldn't be having such issues...
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post #214 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 10:22 AM
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LOL, this is such a great thread. So here is what we learned today:

1) Anyone who dares utter a bad word about the PS3 must be in Microsoft's pocket and doesn't know what they are talking about.

2) All positive PS3 reviews are written by great people who are knowledgeable and fair.

3) There are no HD-DVD players anywhere in the world. Any mention of a player by RCA, and (in my best Jim Gaffagan voice) "But they're made by Toshiba". Forget the fact that they could have been made by the Keebler Elves, apparently the player isn't out there at all.

4) HD-DVD sukz, Blu-Ray rulez. All who disagree are pwned.

Did I miss anything?
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post #215 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

Forget the fact that they could have been made by the Keebler Elves, apparently the player isn't out there at all.

Well I never have actually SEEN one...

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post #216 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 10:45 AM
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Well I never have actually SEEN one...

A Keebler Elf? Where do you think all the cookies come from, a factory??
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post #217 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

So how many times are the HD-DVD fans going to post about the same two articles...
b2b

Here's a new one for you. While they elaborate on the technicals, both good and bad, I thought this summarized it fairly well:

Quote:


ArsTechnica gives PS3 6 out of 10.

[excerpt from page 7]
I think my main problem with the PS3 is that philosophically, it's a confused system. It doesn't really know what it wants to do. The 360 wants to be a social system; it wants to get you online, talking to people, playing this fun little minigames, and going for the high score and bragging rights. It wants to bring you together and make you remember what you love about gaming.

The Wii wants to get you off the couch, for you to be physical and to be part of this game world. Wii wants you to connect and to get your friends and family involved even if they don't like games. The Xbox 360 and Wii are systems that know what they want to do.

The PS3 doesn't have any grand ideas; Sony wanted something high-tech, so they started from scratch with the processor and GPU, but what does it get them? Very little so far. The controller is a mash-up of ideas from their old systems, the 360's triggers, and the Wii's motion-sensing capabilities, but once it has that tech it doesn't really know what to do with it. The Blu-ray adds cost, but adds very little to the gaming experience for the user. It's great as a media player, but for those of us who love games first and foremost, we have to look at it skeptically. The PS3 is a system with no core message, and that is what keeps it from being elegant. Will it do great things in the future? I hope so, the possibility and potential are certainly there. For now, it's power looking for a mission statement.

I'm sure you can some how relate the reviewer back to sleeping with Bill Gates within 10 hops "Kevin Bacon style" thus invalidating the whole thing...
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post #218 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Mike if you look hard enough, I'll bet you can find a analyst somewhere that is saying that no PS3 were available and it was all an elaborate hoax...

The only unanimous opinion I get from them is that the number sold is way less than the 400,000 Sony claims.

Quote:


And if you look real close at some the demand curves, the Xbox is quickly becoming the "man in the middle" squeezed at both the top end by the PS3 and very much so at the bottom end with the Wii. Plus Sony is still selling the PS2 and expects to do very well with it for the Holidays also.

Price curve... PS2 -> Wii -> Xbox -> PS3

Isn't it a strange coincidence that the lower priced consoles sell the most number of units? Where does that put the PS3?

And if there is any truth to this table, then I'd guess MS has quite a bit of room (and tons of cash) to make some changes to that demand curve...after all, If a BD drive costs Sony only $125, then MS must be making money presently on the HD DVD add on...

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post #219 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

And if you look real close at some the demand curves, the Xbox is quickly becoming the "man in the middle" squeezed at both the top end by the PS3 and very much so at the bottom end with the Wii.

Retailers and analysts across North America confirm that the hottest selling gaming console this past weekend was the Xbox 360.
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post #220 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 11:24 AM
 
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Lol, Bill also said they'd have a 10 million unit head start, I guess that was yet another smoke and mirrors lesson from MS.

Quote:


Bill Gates told the world about six months ago that Halo 3 would be released day and date with the PlayStation 3, but that proved to be more of a smoke screen than a promise.

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post #221 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 11:58 AM
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post #222 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 12:14 PM
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Yes, it was good marketing to have tons of Xbox sitting around waiting to be the "consolation prize" when the Wii and PS3 came up short on numbers.

I doubt that it will that way for very long though..

b2b

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post #223 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by nilsp View Post

We'll see. Meanwhile, here is a review from someone who should know what they are talking about... http://www.avrev.com/equip/playstation_3/

A very nice and thorough review. Sure, there are downsides they say, but at the end they provide this little nugget:



(Enter HD DVD folks saying he is a Sony-bitch....)


Here's why you should pay over list for a PS3.....

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162090...stnews;title;1
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post #224 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

Here's why you should pay over list for a PS3.....

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162090...stnews;title;1

Yea, but who is going to pay for the $20,000 worth of Rolaids you are going to need if you take them up on the offer ??



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post #225 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 12:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Well good to see that you are so sure about that. Personally though I think as time goes on many PS3 owners will try Blu-ray and that is in addition to the increasing number of PS3 owners. Not saying that the PS3 will make Blu-ray the winner of this format war, but I think it will be one of the reasons that Blu-ray will win.

How? Was it by buying the PS3 or was it by playing Blu-ray movies on it? Seriously g55555sim you should calm down and I only stated the obvious fact that any PS3 owner who wants to play a Blu-ray movie can do so.

what i am saying is MOST probably the launch sales of PS3 would not (or atleast have MINOR) influence the sales of BD movie, therefor they the spins of 400,000 BD players sold" is not appropriate. The sales of PS3 will affect the BD movie sales but not now. Not at launch.
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post #226 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by chad_cincy View Post

Here's a new one for you. While they elaborate on the technicals, both good and bad, I thought this summarized it fairly well:
Quote:


The PS3 is a system with no core message, and that is what keeps it from being elegant. Will it do great things in the future? I hope so, the possibility and potential are certainly there. For now, it's power looking for a mission statement.

I'm sure you can some how relate the reviewer back to sleeping with Bill Gates within 10 hops "Kevin Bacon style" thus invalidating the whole thing...

Well here is a comment from way back when..
Quote:


This is probably the most professionally put-together system I have seen. The only thing missing at the moment is a wide selection of packages, but I rather feel that the whole world and its grandmother will be frantically trying to fill that particular gap.

Guess what they were speaking of ....

b2b

Hint: 5150

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post #227 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Yes, it was good marketing to have tons of Xbox sitting around waiting to be the "consolation prize" when the Wii and PS3 came up short on numbers.

I doubt that it will that way for very long though..

b2b

An anecdotal story....it may not be indicative of a larger trend...or it might.

A co-worker of mine has an 11 year old son who has a PS2. His son told him he wants an Xbox360 for Christmas because that's what his friends have. He told his son that he was getting a PS3 because he already has a bunch of PS2 games, and he didn't want them thrown away.

After seeing how hard it is to get a PS3 he decided there was no reason he couldn't hold on to the PS2 and add an Xbox360. He's also picking up the HD-DVD add on because he (Dad) wants to try out the new format.

I don't think this situation is unique. By 1/1/07 I expect the score to be in the neighborhood of

PS3 = 1,000,000
Xbox360 = 10,000,000
HD-DVD add on = ? (I have no guess because I don't know how many blue lasers Toshiba/Microsoft secured)

After that it's anyone guess....but the gating factor will continue to be how many blue lasers Sony and Toshiba can lay their hands on.
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post #228 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

An anecdotal story....it may not be indicative of a larger trend...or it might.

A co-worker of mine has an 11 year old son who has a PS2. His son told him he wants an Xbox360 for Christmas because that's what his friends have. He told his son that he was getting a PS3 because he already has a bunch of PS2 games, and he didn't want them thrown away.

After seeing how hard it is to get a PS3 he decided there was no reason he couldn't hold on to the PS2 and add an Xbox360. He's also picking up the HD-DVD add on because he (Dad) wants to try out the new format.

I don't think this situation is unique. By 1/1/07 I expect the score to be in the neighborhood of

PS3 = 1,000,000
Xbox360 = 10,000,000
HD-DVD add on = ? (I have no guess because I don't know how many blue lasers Toshiba/Microsoft secured)

After that it's anyone guess....but the gating factor will continue to be how many blue lasers Sony and Toshiba can lay their hands on.

Sounds reasonable... there is no way that PS3 is going to make up the year head start that Xbox has overnight. But the 2007 holidays will be a lot different and so will 1/1/08.

Maybe dad will want to watch something other than Universal, Warner and Paramount a little later too...

b2b

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post #229 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Well actually I pay more attention to the movie releases than what the players are selling for. I look at the new release thread and there are some pretty good movies, but nothing that really gives me a overpowering urge to spend a large sum of money to just oggle at wonder of HD.

Plus too, there is the matter of the aging front PJ that needs to be replaced. Maybe when Hollywood starts putting out new releases day and date (say the new James Bond) I will get all excited and what-not.

The PS3 is interesting because it does a lot more than a plain ole player does, so it is highest on my list. Standalone players... <$300 for BD.. HD-DVD, not really interested..

b2b

I will be replacing my PJ after the first of the year and feel the same way about not wanting to spend a large amount for a next gen HD player during a format war. Unlike you and many of the BD supporters here, I cannot easily dismiss the fact that nobody wins with the current situation in regards to studio support. I readily admit that there are BD titles that I like but I have no interest in a PS3 and I'm certainly not going to spend a grand on a BD player.

If studio support wasn't an issue, I'd have no problem dropping the coin on a fully featured stand alone HD player. Unfortunately though, that's not the case and is the reason why I'll just grab an add-on for well under $200 and wait for a decent universal player. I'd rather the extra $$$ go into my PJ upgrade.
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post #230 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 01:18 PM
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Focus makes the difference....... (where have I heard that before )

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/11/21/ro...game_consoles/

Wrapping Up

The Microsoft Xbox 360 currently provides the richest overall gaming and media experience thanks largely to a robust platform and having a year launch lead. The Nintendo Wii provides the best individual, aerobic, gaming experience and will likely be the most popular with parents (and wives) as a result. The Sony PS3 simply doesn't feel finished, but, given the ability to download updates many of these shortcomings should be addressed next year. Once that happens the Sony should be able to better go toe to toe with the other players, for now the market (at least for the new generation of gaming systems) appears to belong to Microsoft at the high end and Nintendo at the low end.

If I were buying a system for myself or for someone into High Definition programming, I'd favor the Xbox, as a gift for kids I'd favor the Nintendo (assuming I could find it) and, with the Sony, I'd stick with the PSP (arguably the best portable player and both more affordable and more available this year) until the PS3 matures a little more and drops out of the Ebay nose bleed pricing phase.


After taking an extra year to deliver, shouldn't the PS3 blow the Xbox360 out of the water? Instead the expectation is that sometime next year it will be just as good as the Xbox360. The reviews keep piling up.
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post #231 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 01:19 PM
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Shouldn't this thread be moved into the BR forum? It's degenerated into nothing more than a cheerleading thread for BR fanboiz...

"But I want to do community service; I want to teach the handicapped how to yodel." - Hudson Hawk
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post #232 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

I will be replacing my PJ after the first of the year and feel the same way about not wanting to spend a large amount for a next gen HD player during a format war. Unlike you and many of the BD supporters here, I cannot easily dismiss the fact that nobody wins with the current situation in regards to studio support. I readily admit that there are BD titles that I like but I have no interest in a PS3 and I'm certainly not going to spend a grand on a BD player.

If studio support wasn't an issue, I'd have no problem dropping the coin on a fully featured stand alone HD player. Unfortunately though, that's not the case and is the reason why I'll just grab an add-on for well under $200 and wait for a decent universal player. I'd rather the extra $$$ go into my PJ upgrade.

I learned a long time ago to put the money where it counts most.. in the display for visual and speakers for audio.

If you already have a Xbox buying a addon is a no-brainer as far as cost goes. But I don't have one, so it's the same $$ either way for me and BD is my first choice for HD on disc.

b2b

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post #233 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 01:27 PM
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Wow! The mods are already out for the PS3.

http://www.therealps3grill.com/ps3grillpics.htm

I'll take mine medium rare.
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post #234 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by heavyharmonies View Post

Shouldn't this thread be moved into the BR forum? It's degenerated into nothing more than a cheerleading thread for BR fanboiz...

After reading your sig.....

Oh well... never mind...

b2b

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post #235 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

another puzzling review; i hope it is simply that the developers are coming up to speed on coding for the ps3 and they rectify that soon:

review from ign.com: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/746/746533p2.html

the mighty cell shouldn't be having such issues...

The cell isn't causing these issues. As you say, the developers need to get up to speed on the system. 1st gen titles usually has issues. 2nd gen titles should be more polished. Can we conclude that multi-platform titles are more prone to such issues? Not sure, but would not surprise me.

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post #236 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

Focus makes the difference....... (where have I heard that before )

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/11/21/ro...game_consoles/

Wrapping Up

The Microsoft Xbox 360 currently provides the richest overall gaming and media experience thanks largely to a robust platform and having a year launch lead. The Nintendo Wii provides the best individual, aerobic, gaming experience and will likely be the most popular with parents (and wives) as a result. The Sony PS3 simply doesn't feel finished, but, given the ability to download updates many of these shortcomings should be addressed next year. Once that happens the Sony should be able to better go toe to toe with the other players, for now the market (at least for the new generation of gaming systems) appears to belong to Microsoft at the high end and Nintendo at the low end.

If I were buying a system for myself or for someone into High Definition programming, I'd favor the Xbox, as a gift for kids I'd favor the Nintendo (assuming I could find it) and, with the Sony, I'd stick with the PSP (arguably the best portable player and both more affordable and more available this year) until the PS3 matures a little more and drops out of the Ebay nose bleed pricing phase.


After taking an extra year to deliver, shouldn't the PS3 blow the Xbox360 out of the water? Instead the expectation is that sometime next year it will be just as good as the Xbox360. The reviews keep piling up.

Interesting. He says the system feels rushed, but hardly mentions anything on why. Oh well.

All new systems has initial issues. Among my friends, at least, we weren't expecting the PS3 to blow the 360 out of the water. The 360 is already on its 2nd/3rd gen titles, while we've only seen launch titles on the PS3. In a year or two, we do expect to see clear differences between the two, though.

Let the reviews pile up. As the firmware gets refined, volume increases, more games are released I'm sure there will be more happy faces around. No matter. For now, I'm not concerned. If a Time article convinces a gamer that the PS3 is not for him, good, then I have a better shot at getting one.

BTW, here is PCWorld's take on the PS3 as a Blu-ray player: http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,127892/article.html

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post #237 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by heavyharmonies View Post

Shouldn't this thread be moved into the BR forum? It's degenerated into nothing more than a cheerleading thread for BR fanboiz...

Imagine what would happen if the "superior" format ever puts out a superior title.
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post #238 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by nilsp View Post

All new systems has initial issues. Among my friends, at least, we weren't expecting the PS3 to blow the 360 out of the water. The 360 is already on its 2nd/3rd gen titles, while we've only seen launch titles on the PS3. In a year or two, we do expect to see clear differences between the two, though.

From a developer's perspective...

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-348-1.htm

Some interesting tidbits...

Game Selection: The XBOX 360 has a huge head start here. 1 year is an eternity in gaming. Almost all multi-platform developers have made the XBOX 360 their primary platform due to timing of release-to-market, this means the games will look and perform better on the 360. The PS3 versions will be ports of the 360 versions. (The opposite was true for XBOX 1 vs. PS2). The XBOX 360 is also far faster to develop for due to better development tools (massively popular Visual Studio .NET vs. proprietary, buggy PS3 compiler and debugger), better documentation, and easier architecture (3 general purpose CPU's vs. 8 specialized processors that require DMA). Timing has also caused all next-gen middleware developers to make XBOX 360 their primary platform, and they will add ps3 support' as needed. This support will probably be inferior to the XBOX 360's due to manpower and more importantly, demand. It's this catch-22 now that will continue to drive the 360 forward and hold PS3 back.

Mind you that is only for titles that are cross platform. It's up to the PS3 exclusives to blow the Xbox360 out of the water.

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang
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post #239 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

the mighty cell shouldn't be having such issues...

I would point out that a PS3 launch game, which is a port from the Xbox 360, is not a good way to judge how well the CELL works.


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Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

And if there is any truth to this table,

Before you jump to much on that iSuppli estimate for the PS3 I would point out that they also estimated a $674 BOM for the HD-A1.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

Xbox 360 HDMI rumor rides again

Those hoping for an Xbox 360 HDMI cable must be getting desperate since that is pretty weak even for a rumor. That a HDMI cable is included with a supposed Xbox 360/Lost Bundle combination based on a single photograph doesn't prove much in my opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyharmonies View Post

Shouldn't this thread be moved into the BR forum? It's degenerated into nothing more than a cheerleading thread for BR fanboiz...

Besides the obvious hypocrisy of saying this while having a signature of "HD-DVD: Pretty self explanatory. Blu-Ray: Didn't one of those kill the Crocodile Hunter? " there is also the fact that your post was nothing but a bash at the Blu-ray supporters posting here.
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post #240 of 3949 Old 11-21-2006, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hdkhang View Post

From a developer's perspective...

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-348-1.htm

Some interesting tidbits...

Game Selection: The XBOX 360 has a huge head start here. 1 year is an eternity in gaming. Almost all multi-platform developers have made the XBOX 360 their primary platform due to timing of release-to-market, this means the games will look and perform better on the 360. The PS3 versions will be ports of the 360 versions. (The opposite was true for XBOX 1 vs. PS2). The XBOX 360 is also far faster to develop for due to better development tools (massively popular Visual Studio .NET vs. proprietary, buggy PS3 compiler and debugger), better documentation, and easier architecture (3 general purpose CPU's vs. 8 specialized processors that require DMA). Timing has also caused all next-gen middleware developers to make XBOX 360 their primary platform, and they will add ps3 support' as needed. This support will probably be inferior to the XBOX 360's due to manpower and more importantly, demand. It's this catch-22 now that will continue to drive the 360 forward and hold PS3 back.

Mind you that is only for titles that are cross platform. It's up to the PS3 exclusives to blow the Xbox360 out of the water.

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang

Sounds like the "massively popular" of the MS tools should be changed to "massively proprietary" MS tool set..
Quote:
Microsoft .NET is the Microsoft strategy for connecting systems, information, and devices through Web services so people can collaborate and communicate more effectively.

Just like everything about MS, they want to suck the world into their proprietary "strategy" of their OS and tools to build applications.

b2b

"Listen, You Pencil Neck Geeks.." 'Classy' Freddie Blassie ~ 1918-2003
A Toshiba spokesman, said that "from an engineer's point of view, the Blu-ray is a masterpiece.."
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