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post #1 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a continuation of HiDef DVD News VI - A New Beginning???

12/23 Thread rule change: Please limit posts in this thread to a link to a news article and/or a partial quote with an optional line or two describing the article.

Take discussion of any article to a new thread, but you're welcome to link to the discussion thread. Quote the news post, type "discussion here:" and the thread link.

NOTE: Posting of sales figures is strongly discouraged and should go to the new BD Sales Figures Thread or the new HD-DVD Sales Figures Thread

This affects posts beginning with 12/23/06

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Now that both PS3 and 360 add-ons have been released, time for a new thread.

Edit :

Some related review.

Burning Questions: PS3--The Blu-ray Movie Experience

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The short answer is yes. In my initial hands-on tests, the PS3's Blu-ray Disc playback was very good--even better than I'd anticipated.

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post #2 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 01:50 PM
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regarding the lack of HDMI on XBox add-on. From my POV, it's a non issue. By the time ICT is switched on (approx 2010 or later), you're already buying new players anyway. At that time, qood quality standalone HD-DVD players will cost no more than $200.

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It may not be an issue for you but some people do hang on to their players for a long time.


Other than exceptions here and there, I honestly doubt that a player bought in 2006 will still be in operation when it reached 2010.

Four years is a very long time. None of my DVD players (more than a dozen) except for Panasonic DVD-A300 lasted longer than 3 years. None of my 5 LD players (except for Pioneer CLD-604) lasted longer than 3 years too.

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post #3 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 01:51 PM
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No super new news, but the Top 10 Amazon sales rankings for Blu-ray discs have been consistently up over the last 30 days.

The combined HD DVD sales ranking has been consistent as is still much higher than the Blu-ray sales rankings, but the Blu-ray trend has been definately upward.

Too early to see any PS3 impact

3rd chart down
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post #4 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 01:56 PM
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made a sticky

Thanks nataraj

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post #5 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 01:58 PM
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I just returned from Tweeter, the guy told me that they've been selling the Panasonic players as fast as they can get them in. So-so on the Samsung though. He said he hasn't sold an HD DVD player since late summer. Not sure how true this is, but it doesn't matter either way. Either they are selling at the rate at which he says, OR the retailers are pushing BD at the expense of HD DVD.

I just get the sense that BD is going to win this thing based on CE support, Studio support, and retailer support, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Part of me wants one format, but the other part of me says that the "best product" should win, not the one the industry wants to win.
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post #6 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 02:06 PM
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Sony NEC Optiarc: Blue-ray Disc drive prices to drop 50% by 2008

Quote:


By 2008, prices for Blu-ray Disc (BD) drives will drop 50% from current levels amid aggressive development by various related brands and makers, according to Shuji Minami, general manager, product business group of Sony NEC Optiarc. Minami also said the maker is not ruling out seeking new partners in Taiwan or placing more orders with existing Taiwan-based partners.

Demand for BD drives are expected to be driven by full high-definition (HD) demand for 19-inch-and-above LCD monitors and the new Vista operating system (OS) from Microsoft in 2007, Minami indicated.

In addition, adoption rates for BD technology will be further driven by the Olympic Games in Beijing in 2008, when demand for LCD and PDP (plasma display panel) TVs, along with high-density storage devices, will drive the market, Minami added.

Now I know this is supposed to be big news from the BD side, but by 2008, if BD didn't reduce drive costs by AT LEAST 50% then they will be crushed by Chinese made HD DVD drives.
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post #7 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post

Part of me wants one format, but the other part of me says that the "best product" should win, not the one the industry wants to win.

So Which one is which? Pardon me, I've been sniffing cleaning products all afternoon, and I can't reason very well...
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post #8 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 02:30 PM
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Since it will be an inevitable win by BD in the eyes of some, I thought it interesting to look back to Churchill and what he said of another war:

"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.''

"When I warned them that Britain would fight on alone, whatever they did, their Generals told their Prime Minister and his divided cabinet that in three weeks, England would have her neck wrung like a chicken - Some chicken! Some neck!"

"This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

That war went on another 3-4 years after he said these. BTW, we know it wasn't the "superior" side that won that war. Everyone take a deep breath!
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post #9 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

Sony NEC Optiarc: Blue-ray Disc drive prices to drop 50% by 2008

Now I know this is supposed to be big news from the BD side, but by 2008, if BD didn't reduce drive costs by AT LEAST 50% then they will be crushed by Chinese made HD DVD drives.

I take the article to be refering to PC drives. Which are burners for BD. This seems to be somewhat on track with Pioneer's comments. The SRP on the Sony is $750 and streets for $540 or less. Drop that in half.

Is there an announced HD DVD burner? I can't see ROM drives being "crush" level.

Gary


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post #10 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

Sony NEC Optiarc: Blue-ray Disc drive prices to drop 50% by 2008

Now I know this is supposed to be big news from the BD side, but by 2008, if BD didn't reduce drive costs by AT LEAST 50% then they will be crushed by Chinese made HD DVD drives.

Well that assumes the Chinese will have enough "in country technology" to make blue lasers at a cost well below the suppliers of BD drives.

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post #11 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

Since it will be an inevitable win by BD in the eyes of some, I thought it interesting to look back to Churchill and what he said of another war:

"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.''

"When I warned them that Britain would fight on alone, whatever they did, their Generals told their Prime Minister and his divided cabinet that in three weeks, England would have her neck wrung like a chicken - Some chicken! Some neck!"

"This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

That war went on another 3-4 years after he said these. BTW, we know it wasn't the "superior" side that won that war. Everyone take a deep breath!

That is probably the best analogy of this format war I've read so far.

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post #12 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 03:16 PM
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Through 11/3/06, the CEA is reporting that digital TVs have outsold analog TVs by a factor of 2:1. Pretty cool. Digital's 5 week moving average in 2006 is up some 430% over the same 5 week moving average in 2005.

SCEA is re-evaluating their numbers...the 400K PS3s noted for launch just this September for the NA debut has now been reinvisioned as only a "goal that we were shooting for" and the year end 1000K target is now also a target they are "shooting for"...this is Hirai talking, not some flacky. It will be a few days before they release actual figures--at this stage, they aren't 100% sure they even sold out on launch day.

The production to date has been 20% $499 and 80% $599. Shipping by boat takes 12-14 days, so they plan to air units to NA for the foreseeable future. They plan to do daily flights/shipments for the foreseeable future. Hirai specifically said they will *not* try to build up inventory, but rather ship daily direct to retail...they don't want retail to go dry.

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post #13 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post

I take the article to be refering to PC drives. Which are burners for BD. This seems to be somewhat on track with Pioneer's comments. The SRP on the Sony is $750 and streets for $540 or less. Drop that in half.

Is there an announced HD DVD burner? I can't see ROM drives being "crush" level.

So it means nothing..."Sony NEC Optiarc: Blue-ray Disc drive prices to drop 50% by 2008" is hereby dumped...
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post #14 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians View Post

Through 11/3/06, the CEA is reporting that digital TVs have outsold analog TVs by a factor of 2:1. Pretty cool. Digital's 5 week moving average in 2006 is up some 430% over the same 5 week moving average in 2005.

SCEA is re-evaluating their numbers...the 400K PS3s noted for launch just this September for the NA debut has now been reinvisioned as only a "goal that we were shooting for" and the year end 1000K target is now also a target they are "shooting for"...this is Hirai talking, not some flacky. It will be a few days before they release actual figures--at this stage, they aren't 100% sure they even sold out on launch day.

The production to date has been 20% $499 and 80% $599. Shipping by boat takes 12-14 days, so they plan to air units to NA for the foreseeable future. They plan to do daily flights/shipments for the foreseeable future. Hirai specifically said they will *not* try to build up inventory, but rather ship daily direct to retail...they don't want retail to go dry.

I'm not sure you can even buy anything >27" that doesn't have a ATSC digital tuner in it now. My mother's TV quit working and all she watches a couple of game shows and one soap opera, so it was replaced with another 27" SDTV and it had a digital tuner. The shock was that it only cost $224 dollars..

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post #15 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 03:34 PM
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D'oh...good point, b2b. I forgot that pesky regulation!

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post #16 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 03:39 PM
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B2B: maybe in the US, but here you can
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post #17 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

B2B: maybe in the US, but here you can

Does Canada even have a date for analog TV shutdown ?

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post #18 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 04:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Well that assumes the Chinese will have enough "in country technology" to make blue lasers at a cost well below the suppliers of BD drives.

b2b


and please feel free to continue to undermine the Chinese's technological advancement
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post #19 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Too early to see any PS3 impact

Oh ... I was going to say a day after PS3 release BD numbers actually went south

Movies in Top 10,000

11/16/2006 : 35
11/17/2006 : 33
11/18/2006 : 24

The trend is unmistakeable. BTW, for HD DVD ...

11/16/2006 : 98
11/17/2006 : 93
11/18/2006 : 95
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post #20 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

made a sticky

Thanks nataraj

Great. Thanks.
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post #21 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 04:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Well that assumes the Chinese will have enough "in country technology" to make blue lasers at a cost well below the suppliers of BD drives.

b2b

Main Land China has all the technology they need to produce almost any advanced CE technology device they want to and they already do so.

Whatever they may not have is easily gotten.

-Robert
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post #22 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g55555sim View Post

and please feel free to continue to undermine the Chinese's technological advancement

I think b2b's point is that the most difficult component to make in all of these devices is the blue lasers. While there is a lot of work going on in this area, it doesn't seem that anyone has truly cracked the code on making these inexpensively at high volume. From what I've read the current approach is kind of a brute force attack at the problem. Make lots of material and some of it will be usable....throw away the rest.

The Chinese could get into the business of trying to make blue lasers as well, but there would be very heavy capital investment involved and the ramp up time to bring facilities on line would be significant. I think it's more likely that they'd look to source these components from somewhere else, at least until someone has figured out how to do this with better yields.
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post #23 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 05:27 PM
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reposting this one as it came in right at the tail end of the last thread........

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstephen
Blue laser shortfall cools PS3 debut

This isn't really new, we've all known it for some time, but you may want to have a look


http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/...cleID=194400848


All HD-DVD and Blu-ray products except Sony's currently employ Nichia's laser diodes.


There were some posts previously on this thread saying that Nichia is responsible for 80% of the global blue laser production and that 100% of that was committed to Sony for PS3. This EE Times article seems to contradict that. I'm still not sure how much of the global supply comes from Nichia and how much of that is committed to manufacturers of HD-DVD products. But this is interesting information all the same.
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post #24 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g55555sim View Post

and please feel free to continue to undermine the Chinese's technological advancement

For pioneers of cutting edge technology, I think it stands true that it isn't a term usually synonymous with Chinese technology. As large scale manufacturers of existing technology, there is no doubt, as long as they have access to it. I think it is an aspect that the Japanese companies still have control over, both technologically and legally.
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post #25 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Main Land China has all the technology they need to produce almost any advanced CE technology device they want to and they already do so.

Whatever they may not have is easily gotten.

-Robert

I'm sure that will be true for blue laser production someday. That was the point of my comment, "someday" is not "today".

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^ someday? sound familiar! A while ago, we said "someday" BD will come out with BD50 movies", "someday, BD PQ will be at par as HD DVD", "someday, the BD players will do BD Live", "someday, BD will sell more players than HD DVD". Come to think of it, the term "someday" is not "bad" at all. .. come on now, dont hate me please
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post #27 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g55555sim View Post

^ someday? sound familiar! A while ago, we said "someday" BD will come out with BD50 movies", "someday, BD PQ will be at par as HD DVD", "someday, the BD players will do BD Live", "someday, BD will sell more players than HD DVD". Come to think of it, the term "someday" is not "bad" at all. .. come on now, dont hate me please

There is a difference. When that "someday" arrives for cheap Chinese blue diodes, why should it be exclusive to HD DVD?

Like you said, what is wrong with "someday"? I know, only when a HD DVD supporter talks about BD50.
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post #28 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g55555sim View Post

^ someday? sound familiar! A while ago, we said "someday" BD will come out with BD50 movies", "someday, BD PQ will be at par as HD DVD", "someday, the BD players will do BD Live", "someday, BD will sell more players than HD DVD". Come to think of it, the term "someday" is not "bad" at all. .. come on now, dont hate me please

BD-50 - Check

BD PQ - Still hit or miss, Talladega Nights got 2 out of 5 for PQ from highdefdigest and this is the PS3 showcase disc. Isn't BD supposed to be better?

BD Live - Which player has BD Live?

More BD players than HD-DVD - Check. Let's see if they get used.
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post #29 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Does Canada even have a date for analog TV shutdown ?

Used to follow this sort of thing. Here's what I find in a letter from the spectrum regulator to the broadcast ("cultural": OMG, stay away from this one) regulator. Looks like a bureaucratic battle between them where the former is looking at the US and says, OK......

"Given the potential for alternative use of spectrum to be freed-up by the transition to DTV, Industry Canada is of the view, from the perspective of efficient and effective management of the radio spectrum, that serious consideration should be given to specifying a date for the shut down of OTA analogue television. Such a date could be closely aligned within a North American market with a view to ensuring that Canadians will be able to receive Canadian OTA DTV within a North American market time frame. This could also contribute to Canadian broadcasters maintaining their viewership, particularly in markets along the Canada/US border where American television stations are rapidly moving to DTV."

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf08702e.html

If anyone can update, FWIW
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post #30 of 3949 Old 11-18-2006, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

Only the studios releasing in both formats use VC-1 on BD (and only on some titles), the VC-1 encoded BD titles tend to score well for PQ. Talladega Nights, like all Sony pictures releases is encoded with Mpeg2. While some titles on Mpeg2 have managed to come close to VC-1, this wasn't one of them. Sony pictures seems to be stubornly sticking with Mpeg2.

Is there a player out there that supports BD Live?

Well here is the complete quote on the PQ.
Quote:


It doesn't seem like there is anything wrong with the source material, which looks as clean as a whistle. Grain is almost absent from the transfer, with solid blacks and consistent color saturation. I also noticed no chroma noise, compression artifacts or posterization. The film's color palette is quite bright and lively, with sun-drenched exteriors and a fine use of primary colors, in particular blues, reds and yellows. Fleshtones appear accurate, if a bit waxy.

Unfortunately, what 'Talladega Nights' suffers from is really awful contrast. I have no idea why it looks this way (and I didn't see it theatrically), but it is as if the entire image has been completely flattened out and darkened. There is zero "pop" to the presentation -- it's like watching the video through a pair of polarized sunglasses. As a result, depth and detail appear surreal and washed out, and colors are nowhere near as vibrant as they could have been. There is certainly none of the three-dimensionality I'm accustomed to with great high-def. It's hard to describe until you see it, but it is telling that the deleted scenes on this disc, which are also presented in full 1080p and 2.35:1 widescreen, look much better. It is doubly a shame, as Sony is bundling 'Talladega Nights' with the launch of its PlayStation 3 next-gen game console -- I can only hope there is just something wrong with my eyes and I'm the only one who finds 'Talladega Nights' this unwatchable.

No mention of MPEG2 problems, but one of "contrast". Plus the reviewer didn't see the theatrical presentation for comparison. It could be that it was just filmed that way.

b2b

"Listen, You Pencil Neck Geeks.." 'Classy' Freddie Blassie ~ 1918-2003
A Toshiba spokesman, said that "from an engineer's point of view, the Blu-ray is a masterpiece.."
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