Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here! - Page 154 - AVS Forum
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post #4591 of 6336 Old 02-04-2007, 07:41 PM
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Well this should be thrilling news for the studios supporting HD-DVD...
Quote:


Preliminary reports over at the new SlySoft support forum indicate that SlySoft is hard at work developing AnyDVD HD, a new software product that is designed to help decrypt HD DVD movies (HD DVD-ROMs) on the fly. This is a logical evolution for the company behind the famous AnyDVD app, which is an excellent piece of software that allows users to decrypt DVD discs on-the-fly. This is great news for HD DVD owners who wish to back up their HD DVD movies.

http://wesleytech.com/anydvd-hd-coming-soon/

b2b


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post #4592 of 6336 Old 02-04-2007, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Well this should be thrilling news for the studios supporting HD-DVD...
http://wesleytech.com/anydvd-hd-coming-soon/

From your link:
Quote:
Once AnyDVD HD has been launched, they will take a look at the Blu-ray format.

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post #4593 of 6336 Old 02-04-2007, 08:58 PM
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Management change at NBC Universal:

Jeff Zucker to take top spot at NBC Universal

This probably means nothing to our debate, but who knows?

New management can try new strategies without losing face. And clearly something needs to be done about Universal Studio's abysmal theatrical box office.

Gary


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post #4594 of 6336 Old 02-04-2007, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 View Post

It definitely did, the war would be very different had Toshiba stuck to their guns and released the A1 for $799 MSRP, but then that showed their confidence in the format similarly priced Toshiba knew that they had no chance against BD.

Most likely I don't think we would have seen the A1 at all and there would have only been the XA1.

-- "No matter where you go, there you are."

SXRD/Denon/Polk/PS3/360/WiiU
Blu-ray bliss

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post #4595 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post

Last time I read an interview article with VP of Toshiba America, he said 70,000 players (including both G1 and G2) were shipped last year and 60,000+ players were sold.
...
Toshiba's claim, interview with Mr. Uchiyama, VP of Toshiba America

- The ratio of A1 to XA1 sold was 1:9
- 70,000 players shipped in last year (including G1 and G2), 60,000+ players sold. About half of this number was G2 player

I am disappointed with how unreliable DTV TiVo Dealer's (Robert's) information has been in some cases. Back in November I pointed out that Robert had claimed that Toshiba had sold 70k HD DVD players in the US alone in September, but when the first Gen 2 player got delayed it all of a sudden changed to them having 1000 left to sell. He then claimed that his number had been 97% correct and his newer information was 100% correct. This can be seen here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8900521

Then after the start of CES I remember somebody saying that at Toshiba's press conference they mentioned 60k players sold, but Robert claimed that the 60k was for Gen2 units. I pointed out that the 175k+ number for North America counting XBOX360 add-ons and laptops didn't match up with Robert's claims. Now, if the information from the VP of Toshiba America is correct, then I would say that Robert has been posting misinformation on this subject. There is no way that they could have shipped 70k Gen1 players and also shipped only 70k total with Gen1 and Gen2 and had 60k+ total sold with Gen1 and Gen2 with about half being Gen2. I wonder if Robert's information he posted about the XA2 getting 1080p24 by about the end of February will be more reliable than his claims of how many players Toshiba sold seem to be.

If you want to respond to this Robert, please tell us why you claimed that they had 70k out in September and 69k (or close to that) before the G2s even hit, along with saying that your claim of 70k in the US alone was 97% true in September when I pointed out the discrepancy in 2 of your claims. Was that inside information you had gotten, or were you guessing and posting here as if you knew?

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #4596 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 01:33 AM
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Thats not how I read that translation of the interview with the Mr. Uchiyama, Toshiba , VP of Toshiba America. I can't find it now. Do you have the link?

All the various reports considered that I have read, still support 60-70,000 1st generation units shipped and sold in 2006. I beleive I saw that article but the translation was rough.

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post #4597 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

Most likely I don't think we would have seen the A1 at all and there would have only been the XA1.

Sounds about right, but even so, HD DVD would never have gained so many buyers if it had been priced as Toshiba initially intended.
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post #4598 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 View Post

Sounds about right, but even so, HD DVD would never have gained so many buyers if it had been priced as Toshiba initially intended.

The same thing could be said for the PS3. Sony decided to change their original plans and lowered the price by $100, and stuck HDMI on the cheaper (20gig) units.
J
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post #4599 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J View Post

The same thing could be said for the PS3. Sony decided to change their original plans and lowered the price by $100, and stuck HDMI on the cheaper (20gig) units.
J

Only in Japan was the price lowered on the 20GB unit. With HDMI you bring up a good point. Toshiba halved the SRP (799 to 399) of their original player, hardly comparable to a $100 price drop which happened in only one territory.
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post #4600 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 View Post

With HDMI you bring up a good point. Toshiba halved the SRP (799 to 399) of their original player,

No, the HD-A1 originally listed for $499.
J
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post #4601 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J View Post

No, the HD-A1 originally listed for $499.
J

Sorry, I am not American, so I was going by the Amazon price .
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post #4602 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Not saying that there is anything wrong with that just saying that one can hardly point out the effect the PS3 has had without accepting that those two factors had an effect on the format war as well.

I guess those two are because of PS3 in the first place ... in anycase you didn't follow the "thread". Read my further comments this before jumping in ...
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post #4603 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Ramzyk View Post

Very, very depressing, but as I was just about to put my HD-DVDs in the CD slot of my shredder, a little voice started speaking to me.

"Did you notice that was only a two-week chart?"

"Did you notice it was top-ten sales, not overall sales"

"Did you remember that no new HD titles have streeted"

"Did you remember PS3 put a lot of players out in one burst?"

"Did you remember that A2 and XA2 streeted this week and are selling really well?"

Then as if by magic, or maybe common sense, I put my discs back and had leisurely breakfast.

Plus ... there are no PS3 games (concidence?) so people have to buy some movies to justify their $600 doorstop.
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post #4604 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Thats not how I read that translation of the interview with the Mr. Uchiyama, Toshiba , VP of Toshiba America. I can't find it now. Do you have the link?

All the various reports considered that I have read, still support 60-70,000 1st generation units shipped and sold in 2006. I beleive I saw that article but the translation was rough.

Do you have better translated report which does not conflict against other reports you have read, or do you speak Japanese better than me?

Here is the original Japanese article:
http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle...news001_3.html

Quote:


――昨年、HD DVDプレーヤーは何台販売されたのでしょう?

内山氏: 昨年販売したHD DVDプレーヤー全体で7万台出荷しています。セルスルーで6万を超えるぐらいでしょう。機種別の数字は出していませんが、第2 世代に入ってからの方が売れ行きは好調です。昨年販売した分の半分は第2世代プレーヤーです。特に12月になってからは好調でか なりの数が売れました。

My translation:
Quote:


-- How many HD DVD players were sold last year?

Uchiyama: We shipped 70,000 units last year in all of HD DVD players. Probably over 60,000 via sell through. We don't have actual numbers for each product type, but sales of 2nd generation is better (than 1st gen.). About half of the sales in last year was 2nd gen. players, especially in December, there was favorable sales and many players were sold.

Google machine translation:
Quote:


70,000 unit it is shipping DVD player altogether HD last year was sold. Being the cell through, it probably is the extent which exceeds 60,000. It does not produce the number classified by type, but after entering into the 2nd generation, as for demand is more favorable. Half of the amount which last year sold is the 2nd generation player. Especially, after being December, being favorable, it could sell considerable number.

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post #4605 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I am posting this here because B2b made a remark about Tom not being active lately (for those of you who don't know him, he is an insider working at our partner company, Broadcom). I heard this unfortunate news at CES and just got this from him. Here we think format war is what is important to us when things like this happen to someone over Xmas of all times! Really puts things in prespective, doesn't it?

Our deepest prayers go to him and his family.

-------

[Eileen, Peter, etc.; I cannot send Email to some of these lists from
this account so please forward for me, thanks. This is the first time I
have been either technically able to connect from the hospital or
coherent enough to connect at all once home, hence the lack of any
communications before this time.]

After suffering a severe seizure over the XMas holidays I have just been
released from the hospital (yesterday). The seizure resulted in burst
fractures in some of my mid-lower spinal vertebrae in addition to
cracked ribs which I've been told would have led to permanent paralysis
from the waist downward. So they locked me away in an ICU for the last N
weeks.

I am now living in an upper body brace and am pretty heavily drugged
with morphine, vicaden, Librium, and other stuff. I am told that this
was partially due to osteoporosis plus bad diet and too much stress
recently. I'll be pretty used up in physical therapy and drug/dietary
supplements over the next few weeks, and although I expect to be on line
a lot more now, physically I'll be pretty scarce.

My reason for this Email is to apologize to anyone and everyone I may
have let down during the CES lead-in and execution window. I am really
really sorry if I dropped any balls that led to problems for Broadcom,
the HPA, the IBC Council, or any members thereof. Monster people - I am
also really sorry I couldn't make your concert - I tried to fly from the
hospital direct last night but the answer from both my wife and the
doctors was NO. John Ive - I am also very very sorry about our trip.

My profound and sincere apologies. Please let me know what I can do to
help make things up or help in any way during the post CES follow-up
window.

Thank you and please accept my belated apologies - Tom.

Thanks, Amir. I am feeling much better but it is going to be a long time before I fully recover. Thanks again.

Tom McMahon
Technologist
DelRey
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post #4606 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 11:09 AM
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Good to hear from you Tom. Hope you are doing well.
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post #4607 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 11:28 AM
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It is GREAT to see you back Tom!!!

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post #4608 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 11:44 AM
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Tom - great to hear from you. We all wish you speedy healing and best-case outcomes!

Ahh... F1 in full HD 3D with
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post #4609 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Calling NPDs numbers "rumors and speculation" is a bit shallow. Maybe you should give Jodi Sally a buzz and tell her those losers at NPDs are spreading misinformation about the addon numbers...

b2b

From Wordnet: Speculation: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence. Are you trying to say that the NPD numbers are not speculation by that definition?

What NPD does is use incomplete data to guesstimate sales numbers. Sometimes they're close, and sometimes they're not. They're more likely to be off in supply constrained systems, where the distributor does not distribute their product evenly through the channel, especially when the companies getting a disproportionate amount of the product are not included in their information gathering.

That's not to say they aren't useful. Even when they're wrong they can provide excellent indications of sales trends and volumes. I just always take their acual numbers with a grain of salt. For console numbers, they seem to be consistently low.
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post #4610 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkilian View Post

From Wordnet: Speculation: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence. Are you trying to say that the NPD numbers are not speculation by that definition?

What NPD does is use incomplete data to guesstimate sales numbers. Sometimes they're close, and sometimes they're not. They're more likely to be off in supply constrained systems, where the distributor does not distribute their product evenly through the channel, especially when the companies getting a disproportionate amount of the product are not included in their information gathering.

That's not to say they aren't useful. Even when they're wrong they can provide excellent indications of sales trends and volumes. I just always take their acual numbers with a grain of salt. For console numbers, they seem to be consistently low.

Until the day that every product can be tracked through the entire supply chain with an embedded RFID tag, the best thing anyone has is to count products POS sales data. Right now NPD is the best version of the truth that's available.

b2b


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post #4611 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkilian View Post

From Wordnet: Speculation: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence. Are you trying to say that the NPD numbers are not speculation by that definition?

What NPD does is use incomplete data to guesstimate sales numbers. Sometimes they're close, and sometimes they're not. They're more likely to be off in supply constrained systems, where the distributor does not distribute their product evenly through the channel, especially when the companies getting a disproportionate amount of the product are not included in their information gathering.

That's not to say they aren't useful. Even when they're wrong they can provide excellent indications of sales trends and volumes. I just always take their acual numbers with a grain of salt. For console numbers, they seem to be consistently low.

Seems to exactly describe the standalone HD DVD and Blu-ray player market in 2006. VE got a disproportinate share from their channel and Circuit City did not even sell the first generation HD DVD players.

.
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post #4612 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdg345 View Post

Plus ... there are no PS3 games (concidence?) so people have to buy some movies to justify their $600 doorstop.

Of course... They're holding back releasing games to MAKE people buy movies. Why didn't I think of that....

BTW, finally got the PS3 installed last night and watched Superman Returns with the family. They were all impressed. And, that MotorStorm demo rocks!

NilsP

Life is better in HD.
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post #4613 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 01:27 PM
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Geez people never heard of a statistical sample?

You think NPD would be in business long if its work product was speculative?

Yes they do sell their data.
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post #4614 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilsp View Post

Of course... They're holding back releasing games to MAKE people buy movies. Why didn't I think of that....

...

ROFL ... I am not sure where people come up with these ideas ... Obsession and denial are powerful forces ...
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post #4615 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Geez people never heard of a statistical sample?

You think NPD would be in business long if its work product was speculative?

Yes they do sell their data.

You understand that they didn't draw a sample randomly from the popultion, correct? They had to model the sample they drew, and use their best guesses to fill in the gaps. We don't know how accurate their model is. And there is no way to model data like that that without speculation. It would be easy for the model to be off, and the figures to be completely wrong.
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post #4616 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilka View Post

ROFL ... I am not sure where people come up with these ideas ... Obsession and denial are powerful forces ...


This morning a member was banned because his post wasn't "cordial". Actually, his post was deleted because it wasn't cordial, and he was banned for complaining about it.

I wonder, (and this isn't strictly speaking directed at you,) was your post cordial? I don't know where the line is anymore, but the post that was deleted this morning was less offensive than this. So I would guess this one is in jeopardy as well.
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post #4617 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

This morning a member was banned because his post wasn't "cordial". Actually, his post was deleted because it wasn't cordial, and he was banned for complaining about it.

I wonder, (and this isn't strictly speaking directed at you,) was your post cordial? I don't know where the line is anymore, but the post that was deleted this morning was less offensive than this. So I would guess this one is in jeopardy as well.

I figured he agreed with nilsp and his post was intended generally. Was I wrong?
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post #4618 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

You understand that they didn't draw a sample randomly from the popultion, correct? They had to model the sample they drew, and use their best guesses to fill in the gaps. We don't know how accurate their model is. And there is no way to model data like that that without speculation. It would be easy for the model to be off, and the figures to be completely wrong.

Oops.. Better tell Tosh to quit dealing with these lamers at NPD and their bum data !!
Quote:


Toshiba America Consumer Products is a division of one of the nation's leading high-technology companies, specializing in electronics products for the home and office. The company's Director of Marketing, Digital A/V Group, Jodi Sally, looks to NPD's sales and marketing information for insights into the television, digital video recorder, DVD player and home theater markets. Here, she shares her perspective on the value of NPD's market information and discusses how the data is used by Toshiba America.

http://www.npdinsights.com/corp/enew.../close_up.html

b2b


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post #4619 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 03:17 PM
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Skogan, I hope nobody reports him! There are only a few BD supporters left on this forum!



I was surprised about that post+poster incident too. However, I do think that it will be better in general if we all debate the points rather than roll on the floor laughing at others!
[EDIT: Above paragraph not directed at anyone particular; not the least at Ilka]

"I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." - George Bernard Shaw
"I want lossless audio. Let me be the judge of what is good enough for me" - kdragon :)
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post #4620 of 6336 Old 02-05-2007, 03:20 PM
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Get well soon Tom
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