Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here! - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

There is no need for such a juvenille response. Honestly rdjam I don't mind a debate but when you "talk back" it is usually in the form of claims that you so often post but so rarely provide evidence for, personal opinions stated as though they were facts, and attacks against anyone that doesn't agree with what you believe.

No, the attacks are yours.

Many people agree with me that non-BD-Live-compliant players are obsolete.

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Do you have any evidence for that belief or is this a personal opinion?

Easy, I said "many" BD fans were disappointed that the PS3 didn't support BD-Live, to which you said it was only "a few" - so whether they were "many" or "few", all of them were disappointed. Having to go three posts back and forth to explain the meaning of the obvious is rather retentive.

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For someone that says this with such confidence it is telling that you had to add the term "anytime soon" to that statement. After all if you believed that HDi could do everything that BD-J could you wouldn't have bothered to put a time limit on that statement.

It was sarcasm. For you to even attempt to compare BD-J and HDi is laughably ludicrous, let alone try to imply that BD-J is superior. HDi has a RAFT of things that BD-J can't even HOPE to contemplate, such as networking and Picture in picture.

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Another personal opinion stated as though it was a fact.

So you think that since the lowest common denominator of the Bluray format is BD-J that it's not a relevant point that those non-compliant players will ever be able to handle BD-Live??

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Actually I was comparing the requirements of BD-Live to HD DVD in terms of players. You can't compare HDi, which is an interactive layer, to a player spec such as BD-Live. Also rdjam the most likely reason that you don't want to compare BD-Live to HD DVD is because BD-Live does have higher requirements than HD DVD and will be capable of more because of that.

What are you trying to say?

BD-Live is a GHOST - there is nothing for anyone to be able to compare HDi to. Obviously the BDA, Sony, etc will be using HDi as the yardstick as they get BD-Live ready, but to call it a victor before it's even seen the light of day is SOOO typical of the Bluray hubris in this format war.

And to attempt to focus on this "future" battle, is a clear admission that you don't believe anything you are saying about BD-J being "potentially superior" to HDi...
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post #512 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gandley View Post

after sluggin thru this thread two or 3 things stood out,

2 were comments by dr1394

1 being

The situation is worse for HD-DVD. Future players won't be able to play currently authored titles to their full potential.

Ron

2, was a hint that toshibas method of 1080p24 couold be ruff.

and finally the introduction of a performance critera that could affect playback.

Could someone explain this in more detail, as there is somthing going on in the HD-DVD camp that it sounds like we should know about. unless its spin of course

Hi Gandley - I would classify the statement by 1394, as being without merit. It was probably an off-hand joke, since there is no reason that future HD DVD players would be any less capable that current ones. The HDi spec is a standard for a reason, for all players.
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post #513 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 10:33 AM
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well that has always been my understanding, but whats all this performance 2,3 criteria?
dr1394, in the past, usually is quite accurate in what he says, thats what made me go sideways .

Dustin
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post #514 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gandley View Post

well that has always been my understanding, but whats all this performance 2,3 criteria?
dr1394, in the past, usually is quite accurate in what he says, thats what made me go sideways .

Here's a post that Amir did on the subject on the insiders questions thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9274141

In a nutshell there are no performance levels 2 and 3 in existence today, but there are discussions on the subject. It seems these are more oriented around PCs. You can post any follow up questions you have on the insiders thread.
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post #515 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Hi Steve, with full respect, a BD player either meets the BD-Live spec, or it doesn't. It's not a question of whether it can do "a feature of BD-Live". If a BD player is not BD-Live compliant then it's not BD-Live compliant.

I'm not arguing what constitutes a fully -Live compliant player. In the interest of accurate information, I'm asking you to tell us what evidence you have for making THIS STATEMENT of yours: "NONE of the current standalone BR players will EVER support any of the additional BD-Live features that may be added to discs latyer[sic] on (ahem, and which AREN'T there now either...)"


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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

PiP is only one feature of BD-Live, but we already know that the first-gen BD players cannot do it, so they can never be BD-Live compliant.

By the use of your word "never", I must assume you are saying for a fact that the current players do not contain the hardware necessary to do PiP, and therefore cannot be firmware updated to support this feature. How do you know this for a fact for all released standalone BR decks?

This may be suspected, but I've never seen concrete proof of such.

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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

The PS3 is still an open question in terms of BD-Live - "rah rah talk8r" says he's "pretty sure" that the PS3 will be able to be BD-Live compliant with firmware, but I'm sceptical.

Fair enough.... so if you are skeptical of the PS3, yet are stating absolutely that the CE decks cannot ever do PiP, I'll assume you have some hard evidence that allows you to make that distinction. Would you mind sharing?

-Steve
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post #516 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Hi Gandley - I would classify the statement by 1394, as being without merit. It was probably an off-hand joke, since there is no reason that future HD DVD players would be any less capable that current ones. The HDi spec is a standard for a reason, for all players.

Well, until Ron clarifies what he meant, there's no way of telling.

I suspect, however, that he may be referring to some way in which future players ay support 24p output (specifcally how they handle IME), as opposed to what current players may be capable of.

For example: A Toshiba HD-A3 may be capable of decimating 60i-based PiP material to 24p for final output, whereas todays players may nto have hardware capable of doing that, and may simply diable PiP completely for 24p output.

(Please note: above example complete conjecture)

-Steve
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post #517 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by scaesare View Post

I'm not arguing what constitutes a fully -Live compliant player. In the interest of accurate information, I'm asking you to tell us what evidence you have for making THIS STATEMENT of yours: "NONE of the current standalone BR players will EVER support any of the additional BD-Live features that may be added to discs latyer[sic] on (ahem, and which AREN'T there now either...)"

By the use of your word "never", I must assume you are saying for a fact that the current players do not contain the hardware necessary to do PiP, and therefore cannot be firmware updated to support this feature. How do you know this for a fact for all released standalone BR decks?

This may be suspected, but I've never seen concrete proof of such.

I guess I assumed that Rdjam was talking about the BD-Live interactive features.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/news/121006bdlive/

So, for those keeping score at home, the Video Business article makes it clear that "BD Live" interactivity features requiring broadband Internet connectivity were touted by the Blu-ray camp at CES 2006, this past January, and will be touted again at CES 2007 next month. Given that the Blu-ray camp knew well that these features loomed in BD's future, it makes one wonder why on earth players from Samsung, Panasonic and now Sony have shipped with no Ethernet connectivity (the listing on Philips' web site for its BD player makes no mention of Ethernet, and we've not seen it nor have we yet read any first hand reports on its connectivity).

The only BD players that I know have an ethernet port are the PS3 and the Pioneer. So they at least have the potential for a BD-Live upgrade down the road, but I don't think there have been commitments made for either platform. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that point. Personally I suspect it's likely the PS3 will get the upgrade, I'm not as confident about the Pioneer.

I didn't realize PiP was considered part of BD-Live. I guess if it's tied up with how it will be used for interactive content that would make sense.
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post #518 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

I guess I assumed that Rdjam was talking about the BD-Live interactive features.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/news/121006bdlive/

So, for those keeping score at home, the Video Business article makes it clear that "BD Live" interactivity features requiring broadband Internet connectivity were touted by the Blu-ray camp at CES 2006, this past January, and will be touted again at CES 2007 next month. Given that the Blu-ray camp knew well that these features loomed in BD's future, it makes one wonder why on earth players from Samsung, Panasonic and now Sony have shipped with no Ethernet connectivity (the listing on Philips' web site for its BD player makes no mention of Ethernet, and we've not seen it nor have we yet read any first hand reports on its connectivity).

The only BD players that I know have an ethernet port are the PS3 and the Pioneer. So they at least have the potential for a BD-Live upgrade down the road, but I don't think there have been commitments made for either platform. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that point. Personally I suspect it's likely the PS3 will get the upgrade, I'm not as confident about the Pioneer.

I didn't realize PiP was considered part of BD-Live. I guess if it's tied up with how it will be used for interactive content that would make sense.

No ethernet port on all of the players besides the Pio?? Even the Sony? Well I didn't even know that.

Well that certainly narrows it down... and given the Pioneer manual page quote I posted earlier reagarding the lack of intaeractive support foo it's ethernet connector, it's looking less likely.

Thanks.

-Steve
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post #519 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

The first and second generation Toshiba products could not be more different than each other from architectural point of view.

...

Back to Ron's comment, until he explains what he means, I have no idea how to answer. There is nothing specific there.

I suspect he's talking about SoC-based designs, which the A2 clearly isn't. Teardowns I've seen suggest the A2 has a 900MHz Pentium-family CPU, which is still far more CPU than any current SoC solutions, nor to my knowledge anything which has been announced. Do you expect that HD-DVD players will be unable to use SoC-based solutions until they ~1GHz CPU cores? If so that's a fairly significant cost Toshiba and friends will have to eat...

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post #520 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

I suspect he's talking about SoC-based designs, which the A2 clearly isn't.

That would be awful amount of speculation for someone to claim to know what the architecture of the next Toshiba player would be. Would you/Rio have guessed correctly the current machine's chip-set? I am pretty sure not.

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Do you expect that HD-DVD players will be unable to use SoC-based solutions until they ~1GHz CPU cores?
- Talk

Well, as a competitor, you just have to wait to find out like the rest of the world .

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If so that's a fairly significant cost Toshiba and friends will have to eat...

Oh good grief. We are back to this line again.... Bait not taken . Let's let the peace remain in this thread...

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post #521 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by scaesare View Post

No ethernet port on all of the players besides the Pio?? Even the Sony? Well I didn't even know that.

Well that certainly narrows it down... and given the Pioneer manual page quote I posted earlier reagarding the lack of intaeractive support foo it's ethernet connector, it's looking less likely.

Thanks.

Very interesting, thanks for the info on the Pioneer ethernet port. So that leaves just the PS3 as a potential BD-Live candidate.

Rdjam is skeptical on the PS3....I think Sony will find a way to do it (though they haven't commited to it). I plan to ask Sony about this at CES. I'm not sure that they'll be able to answer though.
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post #522 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

PiP is only one feature of BD-Live, but we already know that the first-gen BD players cannot do it, so they can never be BD-Live compliant.

No, PiP is not a feature of BD-Live. Network connectivity defines BD-Live.
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Totally valid point - those BD standalone players are obsolete before they even get home.

Are you defining lack of network connectivity as "obsolete"? If so, are the >50% of HD-A1's not connected to a network also obsolete?
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So are you advocating that BD fans ONLY buy the PS3, and that there are not "really" any BD players available, since you obviously want to pretend they are not there, just because one can buy a PS3?

What a nonsensical statement. Buyers who want the prospect of BD-Live support should either wait until a player is available which explicitly claims BD-Live support, or they should buy a PS3 and be prepared to repurpose it if in fact it doesn't support BD-Live. Most early adopters want high-def A/V today and rate internet connectivity and other interactivity well down the list of features which they care about.
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the short answer is that I don't think BD-Live is even READY yet. THAT's why - and until it is ready, Sony won't know whether the PS3 can be made to play it. There is also a chance that they will now "re-engineer" BD-Live to ensure that a PS3 can manage it, but we'll have to see.

And this is based on your attendance at BDA meetings? Or on reports from your colleagues who attend BD meetings? Or you receive the presentations and meeting reports from those meetings? More likely this is your blind speculation, and based on the number of facts you have gotten wrong both here and on your petition site there is simply no reason to believe your insight on this topic is remotely credible.
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You can't aim for something you can't see, can you? BD-Live is about as visible as an Area 51 stealth program.

You pay your money and you can get the spec yourself (the same process for getting the HDi spec, incidentally). See the BDA License site for details.
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For you to even attempt to compare BD-J and HDi is laughably ludicrous, let alone try to imply that BD-J is superior. HDi has a RAFT of things that BD-J can't even HOPE to contemplate, such as networking and Picture in picture.

BD-J supports both of those. You are confusing a platform specification (BD-J or HDi) with player features. It is unlikely HDi is capable of anything BD-J is not capable of, yet BD-J is almost certainly capable of many content types HDi is not. That the first HD-DVD players have features (PiP, networking) which many of the first Blu-ray features do not has little bearing on the relative capabilities of BD-J and HDi.

- Talk

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post #523 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 01:18 PM
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Amir, do you know for sure about cost of both format players, especially the cost other than optical drive? Do you think 900MHz dual core Intel CPU + chipset + video/audio decoder chip does cost less than Sigma's SoC?
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post #524 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

If the Chinese have their way, the battle between HD-DVD and Blu-ray will be over before the war has even been able to be fought!

http://en.ce.cn/Insight/200612/25/t2..._9869903.shtml

China has BILLIONS of people. China is going to do EVD, and not do HD-DVD nor Blu-ray at all! Hurray for China!

With a per-capita income of just over $1,700, I don't think the majority of billion+ Chinese are going to be in the market for high-def DVD anytime soon.
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EVD:
1) Capacity of at least 50GB just like BD50

According to the article it's 12GB. It's virtually inconceivable you could do 50GB with red laser.
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5) Has a very good chance of catching on, because of:
a) has DRM features that make pirating much much harder than with dvd, piracy is huge problem in China.
b) by 2008 China plans to have all EVD and eliminate DVD!
c) China will only have ONE standard ( much better than two with HD-DVD and Blu-ray huh?) which will not cause some movies to be on one "format" or another like we are currently experiencing. Either a movie is available or it's not. END OF STORY. No more "get both players and stop being a format nazi"

And unless the US studios support it, it will be a very nice standard for China and perhaps other Asian countries, but is unlikely to have any impact in the West.

- Talk

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post #525 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

No, PiP is not a feature of BD-Live. Network connectivity defines BD-Live.
Are you defining lack of network connectivity as "obsolete"? If so, are the >50% of HD-A1's not connected to a network also obsolete?
What a nonsensical statement. Buyers who want the prospect of BD-Live support should either wait until a player is available which explicitly claims BD-Live support, or they should buy a PS3 and be prepared to repurpose it if in fact it doesn't support BD-Live. Most early adopters want high-def A/V today and rate internet connectivity and other interactivity well down the list of features which they care about......

Talkstr8t, in all fariness, there is something wrong with the fact that so many G1 BD players shipped without even an ethernet port. Let's put aside interactivity for a moment, these are new devices that will need software upgrades. Not including an ethernet port to make things a little less painful for those of us who choose to spend pretty large sums of money to be on the bleading edge is just wrong. In my mind, buying a player in either format without an ethernet port is a non-starter for this reason alone.

As for the interactivity aspect, it's a shame that the BD CEs chose to sell players to their early adopter customers that are incapable of being upgraded to BD-Live. I get your point about buyer be ware, but let's face it, that's a bad way to treat your highest paying customers. The folks who didn't know about BD-Live ahead of their purchase will feel burned when they find out.

In contrast G1 HD-DVD players can be software upgraded over the internet to have all of the same software features in the G2 players (inlcuding interactive functions).

It's these attitudes toward the customer that are so important to me.
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post #526 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rio View Post

Amir, do you know for sure about cost of both format players, especially the cost other than optical drive? Do you think 900MHz dual core Intel CPU + chipset + video/audio decoder chip does cost less than Sigma's SoC?

For sure? Of course not. I have no idea if Sigma cut Pioneer/Panasonic special pricing, or charge them a fortune given their limited volume. As for Toshiba, we didn't design their hardware nor are we in charge of their purchasing department (although we did collaborate with them on the architecture of the device).

What I do know from years of designing hardware and managing development of such, is that a lot of variables go into cost of finished goods such as volume, newness, popularity, amount of competition for a part, and most importantly, the type of relationship between supplier and manufacturer. The latter is much more important in Japan than rest of the world.

The other thing I know is that Toshiba's volume of product is much higher than these other companies using Sigma parts, that they are on a much faster design cycle (seeing how they came out with second gen in the amount of time it took for some to get to first gen), and do large amount of PC business which can given them an advantage in PC components. All of these things are very helpful for driving cost down.

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post #527 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

Very interesting, thanks for the info on the Pioneer ethernet port. So that leaves just the PS3 as a potential BD-Live candidate.

Rdjam is skeptical on the PS3....I think Sony will find a way to do it (though they haven't commited to it). I plan to ask Sony about this at CES. I'm not sure that they'll be able to answer though.

Is SCEI or SCEA or any other Playstation-related business groups going to be at CES?

If you ask the people who made the BD standalone, would they know?
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post #528 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Is SCEI or SCEA or any other Playstation-related business groups going to be at CES?

If you ask the people who made the BD standalone, would they know?


I'll sit down to work out my itinerary later this week. I'm sure there will be lots of Playstation representation from Sony. It's one of the most important shows after all.
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post #529 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 04:27 PM
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The HD A2 just showed up at my local Circuit City. They did not carry the HD A1 or HD XA1 or the RCA clone.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Toshi...oductDetail.do

Does anyone think this increased availablity of HD DVD players will have any impact?

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post #530 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

I suspect he's talking about SoC-based designs, which the A2 clearly isn't. Teardowns I've seen suggest the A2 has a 900MHz Pentium-family CPU, which is still far more CPU than any current SoC solutions, nor to my knowledge anything which has been announced. Do you expect that HD-DVD players will be unable to use SoC-based solutions until they ~1GHz CPU cores? If so that's a fairly significant cost Toshiba and friends will have to eat...

- Talk

Well, the A1 had a 2.4(?)Ghz core, so it looks like the current player software is running just fine with only 75% of the original clock with just one generation of optimization. And with a general purpose CPU at that.

Somehow I doubt that with SoC designs already incorporating DUAL RISC cores, dedicated decryption cores, dedicated gates for hash functions, acclerated video plane primitives, hardware video mixing, dedicated transport demuxes, audio decocders, and dual dedicated decoders that they aren't going to have a performant player. Especially when they explicitly target HD DVD players within their spec collateral.

-Steve
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post #531 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Are you defining lack of network connectivity as "obsolete"? If so, are the >50% of HD-A1's not connected to a network also obsolete?

- Talk

Thanks for the chuckle, Talk.

While I don't necessarily agree with rdjam's categorization of BD players without advanced features as "obsolete", your attempt at logic turn-about is entertaining to say the least.

Let see here:

My trailer hitch curretly has no trailer on it, therefore it's useless to have one at all...

My MP3 player doesn't have an xtra memory card in it, therefore the slot is usless...

My AVR currently doesn't have an antenna attached, therefore the tuner in it will never be useful in the future...


The firewire port on my laptop doesn't.... shall I go on?


Do we really need to say here not utilizing a feature != absence of said feature?

-Steve
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post #532 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Buyers who want the prospect of BD-Live support should either wait until a player is available which explicitly claims BD-Live support.

- Talk

Talk, first of all, let me apologize for breaking my response to your post up in to two seperate posts, but I wanted this question to stand alone.

You probalby have seen that the issues surrounding the communication fo profile support has been a bit of a pet subject of mine.

Can you give me your estimate of what percentage of the BD-buying public even KNOWS what BD-Live is?

-Steve
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post #533 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 06:58 PM
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I just posted this link on the news thread.

Console Shortage May Linger Well Into 2007
Analysts are not optimistic about upcoming console quantities
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5467

Some market analysts are now predicting that the console shortages will not ease until at least March. American Technology Research analyst Paul-Jon McNealy believes the PS3 drought will last through the June quarter, while the Wii shortage may be ease in the March quarter.

Sony picked up some good numbers in the last 48 hours before Christmas (300K more units according to nexgenwars.com).

I'll wait for January 1 before I sit down and review all of the sales numbers again.
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post #534 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 07:32 PM
 
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Quote:


The HD A2 just showed up at my local Circuit City. They did not carry the HD A1 or HD XA1 or the RCA clone.

My local Circuit City is not only now dealing Toshiba electronics for the first time in years, but as of last week, they are now carrying Universal HD DVDs, the first since launch.

It appears there has been some back room, or rather, boardroom, wheeling and dealing going on.
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post #535 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 09:24 PM
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Quotes from Alex in the News thread:

Quote:


-- Another round of BD-Video testing (well, technically the first RRT) will kick off Q2 '07, with the first BD-Live plugfest scheduled for Q3 '07 to boot, following on the heels of inside BD-Live testing in late Q2 '07. With that, I'll wager good money that BD-Live won't surface until Q4 '07.

Quote:


-- There's a formal Blu-ray Disc LOGO GUIDE available now for BDA members...lots of pretty graphics and such...and there's a Blu-ray Disc Indication Guide, which "define(s) common indications related to Blu-ray Disc to help consumers distinguish the types of medias and its compatibility with the hardware"...so, the BDA is finally stepping up to the plate to help the consumer figure out BD-Video vs. BD-Live and the such...about time...the helpful consumer guide is available for download at http://www.blu-raydisc.info/license...censee_page.htm, but I think limiting its access to BDA members only will cut into its usefulness a bit...

Wow... something like 18 months months after initial introduction before we'll likely see significant #'s of BD-Live profile players, and still no public roadmap for the consumer.

-Steve
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post #536 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 09:56 PM
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Just sitting here at home curled up in a big easy chair by the fire. I'm reading my January 2007 edition of Stereophile and what do I come across? An interview with John Dawson President of Arcam. It doesn't seem to be available on line yet, but I'll pull a few gems out.

Interviewer: But the latest format war of HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray makes things doubly difficult for specialist companies.

JD: It is staggering that these two groups weren't able to get themselves together.

....I do have opinions on which is more fit for purpose as a replay medium, and it's not Blu-ray.

...As I understand it, BD was develloped not as a ROM, a playback only medium, but as a recording medium for Japanese high-definition television broadcasts. And because high definition in television in America and Japan is based on the older and relatively inefficient MPEG-2 video codec, you need very high data rates and lots of disc space to support the programming.

....So with these new codecs, VC-1 and H.264 there is no longer a need for all that amount of space in a replay or ROM format. But BD has already invested the time and effort in getting this to work for MPEG-2 video as a recording format - although all you can do is record off-air; you can't record off disc because of copyright issues - and they've now tried to adapt it as a replay-only format.

....The HD-DVD specification proposed by Toshiba and its partners and endorsed by the DVD forum is a substantial extension of today's DVD format. It's much cheaper to replicate the discs - you can modify existing production lines - and it's less hard to make the players. The disadvantage, if it has one, is less playing capacity, but with a modern video codec, that doesn't get in the way. With BD, you need totally new disc-manufacturing lines and more complex optical pickups, both of which add significant cost.


As to Arcam's potential entry into this market he says...

So what is the way forward right now? I really don't know. We have to watch and observe and see how it shakes out.
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post #537 of 6336 Old 12-26-2006, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

With a per-capita income of just over $1,700, I don't think the majority of billion+ Chinese are going to be in the market for high-def DVD anytime soon...- Talk

Talk, I don't know why you felt necessary to take a swipe at China like that, it's rather insulting. Yes, China has low per capita income, that does not mean there can not be a market for HiDef DVD. HDTV and HiDef DVD are strategic goals for Chinese CE manufacturers/government, that's the reason for EVD. Actually, if EVD does fail, China's plan B to get into HiDef DVD is HD DVD-China (BR is really not an option), whether you like it or not, China will have a significant impact on this war. The longer this war drags on, the bigger impact China will have.
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post #538 of 6336 Old 12-27-2006, 01:11 AM
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http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5467
Quote:


Some market analysts are now predicting that the console shortages will not ease until at least March. American Technology Research analyst Paul-Jon McNealy believes the PS3 drought will last through the June quarter,

If PS3 shortages last until June, how will affect the HD format wars?

If thats the case, and the PS3 is still the only player under $500, thats a big opportunity for the 2nd gen HD DVD players.

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post #539 of 6336 Old 12-27-2006, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

No, the attacks are yours.

Come on rdjam you do have a tendency to go out of your way to attack Blu-ray and those that support it. I mean heck you even attack Blu-ray in your signature.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Many people agree with me that non-BD-Live-compliant players are obsolete.

Even if we assume that is true how would that change the fact that it is a personal opinion that you posted merely as a way to attack Blu-ray?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Easy, I said "many" BD fans were disappointed that the PS3 didn't support BD-Live, to which you said it was only "a few" - so whether they were "many" or "few", all of them were disappointed. Having to go three posts back and forth to explain the meaning of the obvious is rather retentive.

What you said in your last post was that "all expectations that the PS3 would be BD-Live compliant were dashed on launch". Instead of providing any evidence for that statement, or admitting that it was a personal opinion, you ignore the question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

It was sarcasm. For you to even attempt to compare BD-J and HDi is laughably ludicrous, let alone try to imply that BD-J is superior. HDi has a RAFT of things that BD-J can't even HOPE to contemplate, such as networking and Picture in picture.

I am talking about interactivity that does not involve those two features. The fact that you have to fall back on those every time you say that HDi is superior to BD-J indicates that you are not as sure about HDi as you act. After all do you believe that everything that BD-J can do can also be done with HDi?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

So you think that since the lowest common denominator of the Bluray format is BD-J that it's not a relevant point that those non-compliant players will ever be able to handle BD-Live??

What you originally said, which was a personal opinion, was "and BD-Live, no matter what it can do, won't be anjoyed by the majority of Bluray owners, so is as good as irrelevant." Also of course I want people to know everything about both HD formats since I personally believe that most people would support Blu-ray if they did know everything about the two HD formats.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

And to attempt to focus on this "future" battle, is a clear admission that you don't believe anything you are saying about BD-J being "potentially superior" to HDi...

rdjam, you changed the topic again but I will answer that statement, which should have been a question. Personally I do think that BD-J is superior to HDi. I also think that HD DVD is currently better in terms of networking, PiP, and persistent storage than Blu-ray. Long term though I like the fact that Blu-ray will have higher requirements for PiP video and that BD-Live has higher requirements for persistent storage. Also I personally consider the long term to be more important than the short term since I think the winning format will be around for at least 10 years.
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post #540 of 6336 Old 12-27-2006, 02:26 AM
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Ye gads, both of you guys need to have a drink of egg nog.

Suggest a time out on that subject?

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