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post #91 of 6336 Old 12-16-2006, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by d3code View Post

xbox360 as hardware numbers arent a good indicator. i never understand why people use a number of consoles sold as indicator.

fact is on the xbox360 it is possible to play copied games. this is a fact. and lot of people specially in europe buy xbox360 to play copied games. those games wont make any revenue for the studios. same as in china. were 400.000 people bought a xbox360.

so imfportant is to know the number of xbox360 sold, that people use for their orginal games.

if out of those 8 million units sold. only 4 million actually use it to play orginal games. then revenue is much lower. ofcourse this is just an estimation and could be completely wrong. but you have to take that in account when you start using numbers for how many units sold.

same for nintendo DS, Ps2, xbox etc. but PS3 aint hacked yet, you cant play copied games on it.

so revenue wise bluray has sold more then hd-dvds. simply because games are also on bluray. and that is where the bluray effect come kickin in.

people are butchering sony so much for including the bluray drive in the PS3. why? do you want to be stuck in the past or you want to go into the future? i love the bluray drive in my ps3. and i am very happy that i have 1 unit that i can play next generation games on it and watch next generation movies.

i find the hd-dvd addon on the xbox360 and including 1080p on the xbox360 firmware update an indication that sony was right. why would microsoft otherwise do the firmware update and sell the xbox 360 add-on?

microsoft screams murder and death for sony to include such an expesive NExt generation drive in it. if so then why is the xbox360 stuck with a dvd drive from the past, while they release the hd-dvd addon. i would have glady paid 600 bucks as well for a xbox360 with hd-dvd drive inside from the beginning and you wouldnt have me heard complaining at all.

dont get me wrong i like it that i am able to play hd-dvds on my xbox360, but i have to give this to sony. they were right. including the bluray drive was essential. if not so. then microsoft should not had released the xbox360 hd-dvd addon at all.

I also wonder if people realise that a lot of the studios are getting into gaming also. Take the Matrix. On the last 2 movies they did a ton of motion capture and released a pretty crappy Matrix game (as I heard it, don't know for sure..). All of that motion capture can be used in a new PS3 game that on a 50GB disc includes the actual movie. Duh...!! Does anyone actually think that all of that 50GB of space is going to be left to waste forever ??

Storage space is like jumbo shrimp at a cocktail party. No matter how much you have, it won't be enough...

b2b


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post #92 of 6336 Old 12-16-2006, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by d3code View Post

edvedder.

ask everybody over 50? the target market for both bluray and hd-dvd at this moment is between 18 and 36.


at this moment both hd-dvd and bluray are going for the gamer market so to speak. for a new format to succeed you first need a strong basis. once that is done. then you can start marketing the older generation.

yes the older generation have money. but to turn them from dvd to hd-dvd or bluray will be very hard to do.


So where does a 55 year old guy with both an HD-XA1 and the Xbox-360 HD-DVD add-on fit into this? Who also bought an HD-A1 for a friend's birthday back in April? Who was turning 57? And it looks really nice on his NEC XG projector...

you know what they say about assumptions...

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post #93 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 05:54 AM
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Again..Price mattters in the long run in console penetration....Xbox this time around will have the clear advantage there. Again...people who point to past victories and rely on that for there predictios obviously don't work in the competetive retail/CE industry. Past success doesn't always translate into present and future success. We will see how stronp brand loyalty is when an Xbox 360 can be had for $199.99 and $299.99, or you can chose the $499 or $599 PS3, what is going to be the big seperator that motivates people to purchase the PS3?
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post #94 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by kjack View Post

Any unsupported features wouldn't show up in the user interface. And somehow I really doubt the Toshiba players can decode HD secondary video for PIP. Do they support WMA Pro audio decoding without a software update? No player can fully support all possible features out of the gate -- they are too complex to develop for.

Is WMA Pro a supported HD DVD audio format? I don't recall ever seeing that, and as a matter of fact I'm pretty sure I've seen Amir comment on "losing" that portion of the effort to get their tech in the spec.

As for seondary video, I've seen specific bit-rate caps for them, and they differ for codec choice (4Mbps for MPEG2, and 2Mbps for VC1/AVC, IIRC). That would seem to indicate that consideration for the hardware impact was given to the spec.

Given that the Toshiba decks thus far have dedicated hardware decoders, do you know of any chip specs that indicate they wouldn't be able to handle those secondary streams?

-Steve
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post #95 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Wishful thinking. In spite of their huge R&D costs and subsidies, Sony has still been consistently profitable the last few years and will be (barely) this year. The PS2 is incredibly profitable - continues to be the best-selling game system by a wide margin. You think they're subsidizing that? The PS3 will provide the same franchise, but pull in even more revenue since it ensures the success of Blu-ray and will be a tremendous home media center. Very high costs to start with, no question, but great rewards as well given how terrific the hardware has turned out. Compare this with Microsoft, who has reportedly lost $6B on all of their hardware efforts (Xbox/Xbox 360, Zune, Windows Mobile, etc.). They've spent many, many years trying to profit from these efforts and they are still years away from actually doing so.
And a red-laser HD DVD player (DivxHD or WMV-HD) is far cheaper than both, yet there is virtually no consumer interest. Just being cheaper is certainly not sufficient for market success. Incidentally, when is the last time you saw a one CE company format be successful?

(emphasis mine)

When is the last time a game console has ensured the success of anything other than it's own game format?

The PS3 very well might... it's admittedly a trojan horse strategy. It didn't work for UMD, but I hope it does for the PS3. Nonetheless to say it ensures the success of the format is also wishful thinking.

-Steve
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post #96 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

The fact that a very specific class of bonus feature may not work certainly doesn't make a player obsolete.

- Talk

It's actually a "group" of "sevices" (plural) that are missing. The difference between BD-LIVE and BD-J is more than just PIP.

I may analyse it too starkly, and a little black and white, but the simple fact is that the Bluray players being sold today (with the "possible" exception of the PS3 - which we don't yet know can do PIP, etc) will not be able to perform the BD-LIVE features promised for the format. No one can argue with this.

Now, as to that signature file you're sporting - that's easy. A November 17th launch would mean that there would have to be about 900,000 PS3s out there before New Year's for your sig to be true.

And we know that ain't so...

Ahh... F1 in full HD 3D with
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post #97 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

I don't disagree that there hasn't been much transparency around the profiles and what each player supports. The BDA could probably be more proactive in describing the profiles, but ultimately it's up to each player manufacturer to describe what features they support or don't support. I don't think this will be an issue by next Fall, when I expect virtually all players in the market will support BD-Live. Given that the standalone market today is really targeted at well-educated early adopters who are probably more willing than most to upgrade equipment frequently and probably will number less than 100K sales of 1G players, I think this early period of uncertainty won't be a major issue going forward, especially since the PS3 would appear to be capable of full BD-Live support.
I believe so (Keith and Tom or Google can likely answer that question quickly). If not, it's probably a trivial amount of peripheral hardware needed to do so.

- Talk

Would you help me understand how even early adopters who are willing to educate themselves are going to find info about this? I can't readily find ANYTHING from CE manufactures, or the BDA that discusses the profiles, the diffences between them, timelines, etc...

Seriously... unless you happen to read multiple 150+ page threads here, where is this info?

-Steve
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post #98 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by kenliles View Post

Yes - that certainly blows my theories. Sure makes me wonder then why they are releasing on BD then. If I'm a stockholder I'm wondering why are they incurring the loss? Without the PS3, there aren't enough BD players in existence to justify the expenditure and won't be for a long time, if ever... Same is true on the HD-DVD side as Xbox addon doubles the number. Why would the attach rate for PS3 be any different? In fact, given the PS3 IS the low cost player for BD, the attach rate would be higher in theory since HD-DVD has other low cost options to the XBox add-on.....

In the end, he's the CEO and I'm not; guess I'll go fishing.... lot more fun anyway; at least I'm smarter than most of the fish....

ken
I think I will make a note though to avoid Time Warner stock; just in case this AOL company might be wrong here....

I don't follow the point you're making about the add-on.....

As for the PS3 attach rates, you're looking at it purely as a low cost BD player. First and foremost it's a game console and the folks lining up to buy them are typicaly males 15-25 and they want to play games. Every HD-DVD device (including the add-on) is being purchased for only one reason....to watch HD-DVD movies.

But as to why Warner would invest in BD and HD-DVD, it's the same reason that other studios have chosen to support both formats. It's not clear which format will ultimately win and they want to be well positioned for the adoption of either format.
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post #99 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

I personally have never owned any form of Play station as I dont play much video games but Im pretty sure PS2's sold a tremendous amount more than xbox or xbox 360s. Anyone know the exact numbers. Anyone know why the PS3 wouldnt do the same thing? People werent camping out 3 and 4 days in advance and spending 2000 on ebay for a dying system or company. What was the starting price of the XBOX 360? wasnt it only like 100 dollars cheaper? And anyone who doesnt think in a few years when a new XBOX hits it wont be 600 dollars or more is crazy?

We are all suckers. We all want the newest and best and exciting technological advances and we want them now.

Sony can't make as many PS3s as they could PS2s. Some people think this is a normal startup challenge for a new device. If you dig into the details of blue laser production you start to realize the magnitude of Sony's problem. They could get lucky and fix blue laser yields soon....or not. I think not, but either way, they messed up their launch and missed Christmas 2006 as a prime opportunity to gain market penetration with the PS3.

Take a look at the current global sales numbers for the new consoles.

http://nexgenwars.com/
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post #100 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by scaesare View Post

Is WMA Pro a supported HD DVD audio format? I don't recall ever seeing that, and as a matter of fact I'm pretty sure I've seen Amir comment on "losing" that portion of the effort to get their tech in the spec.

WMA Pro is an optional codec for secondary audio. It hasn't gotten much use, of course, as non-mandatory audio codecs don't get much use in general.

It would have been nice to get it in there, but it's not a killer given the relatively small portion of bitstreams compressed audio takes up (PCM is the obvious exception here). WMA is around 2x as efficient as Dolby Digital for typical 5.1 use. Our new low bit rate implementation is about 4x as efficient in the 32-96 Kbps range (you get great 2-channel music at 48 KHz at 64 Kbps).

Quote:


Given that the Toshiba decks thus far have dedicated hardware decoders, do you know of any chip specs that indicate they wouldn't be able to handle those secondary streams?

Any HD DVD compliant player needs to support full spec PIP decode. Getting back to the whole complexity/value issue, by using a more constrained PIP spec, it was able to be mandatory, and used from early titles, where BD's more grandious spec has kept PIP from being universally playable or used much.

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post #101 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

Sony can't make as many PS3s as they could PS2s. Some people think this is a normal startup challenge for a new device. If you dig into the details of blue laser production you start to realize the magnitude of Sony's problem. They could get lucky and fix blue laser yields soon....or not. I think not, but either way, they messed up their launch and missed Christmas 2006 as a prime opportunity to gain market penetration with the PS3.

Take a look at the current global sales numbers for the new consoles.

http://nexgenwars.com/



Sony {has/hasn't} {will/won't} {can/can't} _____________ (fill in the blank... )



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post #102 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

WMA Pro is an optional codec for secondary audio. It hasn't gotten much use, of course, as non-mandatory audio codecs don't get much use in general.

It would have been nice to get it in there, but it's not a killer given the relatively small portion of bitstreams compressed audio takes up (PCM is the obvious exception here). WMA is around 2x as efficient as Dolby Digital for typical 5.1 use. Our new low bit rate implementation is about 4x as efficient in the 32-96 Kbps range (you get great 2-channel music at 48 KHz at 64 Kbps).

Thanks Ben... didn't know that. Do you know if there's any labeling standards for media that would use WMA only for the secondary audio, so that way folks can determine if they have a player capable of it?

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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

Any HD DVD compliant player needs to support full spec PIP decode. Getting back to the whole complexity/value issue, by using a more constrained PIP spec, it was able to be mandatory, and used from early titles, where BD's more grandious spec has kept PIP from being universally playable or used much.

Thanks again. Now just to get that pesky framerate thing sorted out.

-Steve
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post #103 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 09:59 AM
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Sony muddied the waters with the trojan horse strategy. (1) PS3 does not equal (1) HD-A2 as far as disc sales. Only a percentage of PS3 players will be used for movies.

but no one thinks it is 1:1. Let me ask you this, let's keep it simple

what do you think about 500k PS3 by Jan 1? how about 200k HD DVD players? 1/3 of the PS3s would be equivalent to 167k, the other players make the difference.

The added benefit of the PS3 is that even if you assume the attach rate is less you still have more players. In other word even if (over all) the disk sales are less for BD, it is easier to sell 100k copies of a popular title.

Quote:


Let me clarify. 100 HD-A2's will sell more movies than 100 PS3s. The PS3 can overcome with sheer numbers, but that's where the blue laser shortage comes into play.

but shortage is happening because there are so many more players, the shortage would also be for HD DVD if HD DVD could make and sell that many players in such a short time.

also let's say in a given neighbourhood there are 100 HD DVD players and 300 PS3s , let's also assume everyone buys local. The store sells the same number of BD movies as it does HD DVD. What is the theoretical max of a particular movie in HD DVD? how about BD?
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post #104 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:06 AM
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People are getting PS3s without Talledega Nights, which would indicate they've hit 500k already.
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post #105 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

People are getting PS3s without Talledega Nights, which would indicate they've hit 500k already.

Maybe they ran low on BD-25s.
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post #106 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post



Sony {has/hasn't} {will/won't} {can/can't} _____________ (fill in the blank... )



b2b

currently it's can't
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post #107 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

People are getting PS3s without Talledega Nights, which would indicate they've hit 500k already.

Probably that many have been shipped already and soon will be sold. But its already Dec 17th and console sales that are not done by Dec 24 drop like a rock. Tick Tock Tick Tock.

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post #108 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:24 AM
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From the news thread
Quote:


For all you Rob Enderle lovers out there.

This weeks article where he states: "...Why did Sony Fail?

Quote:


Finally, Blu-Ray simply wasn't ready. If anything killed the PS3, Blu-Ray did. By not being able to build enough drives, they sold one tenth the number of consoles they could have sold during the launch week and given the projected 2M (interesting to note that this projection mysteriously got adjusted down to 1M) they were supposed to produce in 2006 will be at about one tenth potential by year end.

Sony had arguably the best marketing campaign of the three systems this year and, even with the other two problems, would have sold out on the strength of its installed base had they been able to build product. But as mentioned above, this market collapses after the holidays and it is the holiday sales that set the foundation for game sales.

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback159_page3.html
http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback159_page3.html


Discussion continued in the Format Battle thread....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=769114


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post #109 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Probably that many have been shipped already and soon will be sold. But its already Dec 17th and console sales that are not done by Dec 24 drop like a rock. Tick Tock Tick Tock.

Yes, youre right the PS3 will probably not sell another one after Dec 24. They should just stop making them now.
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post #110 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:39 AM
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From the above article:

First off he mentions the importance of 4th quarter sales. If the Xbox 360 has won both last years holiday and this years holiday seasons, then the PS3 has to buck the 1st quarter drop off historical trend to gain market share.

Quote:


Finally, in what was clearly a slap at Sony, Microsoft came out with a $200 HD-DVD option and promptly sold out in many markets. While considered a movie only player, this virtually nullified Sony's perceived advantage in the battle for the follow on to DVD for movies and enhanced the Xbox as a media device.

Interesting point. His observation is that the Xbox 360 HD DVD option only has to create a perception of nullifying the PS3 Blu-ray trojan horse strategy. If its close, the PS3 Blu-ray penetration juggernaught is questioned adn may cause studios to reconsider their support.
Quote:


Microsoft however, has made three mistakes. The most critical, and similar mistake to Nintendo, was not having enough consoles on the market last year. They could have sold between 3x and 5x the actual volume (maybe even more) and left 2005 with such a resounding win that neither Nintendo nor Sony constituted a real threat.

Quote:


...
Finally they dramatically under-marketed in 2006 and will likely fall short of the projected 10M installed base numbers they have forecast as a result. This last point is also a traditional Microsoft mistake, Microsoft does good launch marketing but doesn't do well sustaining demand generation marketing for some reason (often makes me wonder if folks there skipped a critical marketing class). With shortages for the other players, Microsoft is benefiting but probably about 50% of what they otherwise would have had they executed a strong demand generation campaign.

Both Microsoft and Toshiba's HD DVD marketing has been week, but he's criticizing the Xbox 360 marketing now, and saying that MS is missing an opportunity to accelerate Xbox 360 penetration.
Quote:


Microsoft's biggest strengths are that they fight as a company (a very big company) and are experts in software (read game) development tools; and their weakness is poor sustaining marketing and uneven (both Nintendo and Sony are typically more consistently good) hardware designs. Sony's strengths are marketing, and technical and industrial design competence; their weaknesses include corporate dysfunction (they don't play well with themselves), a misplaced belief they can (or should) drive industry standards, and the resulting inability to create winning plans they can execute.

Nice summary of the three corporate cultures.

Overall, this article seems fairly balanced to me, taking swipes at all three console makers.

What am I missing here, any comments?

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post #111 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

Yes, youre right the PS3 will probably not sell another one after Dec 24. They should just stop making them now.

of course they will continue to sell, just not as fast as if they were available for the gift buying season.

The point is that console sales slow after the 4th quarter. Sony is swimming upstream against historical trends to sell a lot after Xmas. That gives a large advantage to the Xbox 360.

In addition, after the holiday sales, game designers look to see the installed base and where they should committ development resources to. If there a lot more Xbox 360s than PS3's, they design for the Xbox 360 first and port over to the PS3, that means they don't take advantage of the PS3 unique strengths, and there are less exclusive killer apps for the PS3.

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post #112 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

but no one thinks it is 1:1. Let me ask you this, let's keep it simple

Hi Anthony, welcome to the new thread. I was clarifying a point to Richard Paul. Though I do have to say, I've asked b2b this question a couple of times and he never quite answers it. He seems to answer in a way that implies 1:1, but has said that is not what he believes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

what do you think about 500k PS3 by Jan 1? how about 200k HD DVD players? 1/3 of the PS3s would be equivalent to 167k, the other players make the difference.

Let's break that down (I'll just use your 200,000 number for HD-DVD). If I use Andy Parsons (Pioneer) 33% estimate for PS3 buyers who turn into movie watchers that yields the following.

BD = 500,000 x .33 = 165,000
HD-DVD = 200,000

I think he's very optimistic though. This is my estimate, though it looks like in hind sight I was very generous on the number of PS3s Sony would be able to manufacture this year.

BD = 1,000,000 x .10 = 100,000
HD-DVD = 200,000

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Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

The added benefit of the PS3 is that even if you assume the attach rate is less you still have more players. In other word even if (over all) the disk sales are less for BD, it is easier to sell 100k copies of a popular title.

That depends entirely on the number of PS3s Sony can make, and the percentage of PS3 buyers that buy BD movies.

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Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

but shortage is happening because there are so many more players, the shortage would also be for HD DVD if HD DVD could make and sell that many players in such a short time.

Sony picked a shot gun strategy. They need millions of blue lasers so that some percentage of their blue lasers wind up in the hands of people willing to buy BD movies. The HD-DVD strategy (including the add-on) is more like a sniper. They only need enough blue lasers for movie watchers. They aren't selling blue lasers to gamer customers who turn around and sell their sealed copy of TN on e-bay or craig's list.

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Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

also let's say in a given neighbourhood there are 100 HD DVD players and 300 PS3s , let's also assume everyone buys local. The store sells the same number of BD movies as it does HD DVD. What is the theoretical max of a particular movie in HD DVD? how about BD?

Your example has changed the ratio from the beginning of your post. By your own numbers a typical neighborhood would be 200 HD-DVD players and 500 PS3s (or a set of members that yields the same ratio). Using my projection or Andy Parsons, the HD-DVD customers would likely produce more disc sales. I'm not sure why you would assume that everyone buys local. I never buy local. I buy all of my books, music and movies from Amazon. Their prices are usually less, there's no slaes tax and I almost always get free shipping. If you're concerned about local retail supply, I don't think either format will empty the shelves of any local store.
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post #113 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 10:52 AM
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One thing I can point out is, current most biggest blue LD supplier in the world is Sony. Not Nichia, nor Sharp. Sanyo? Toshiba? Forget about them.

First, Sony is not a "supplier" as they are not selling them to others. Second, they may be able to produce more because they spent millions of dollars installing multiple parallel lines, to compensate for poor yields. Others can do the same, should the business call for such high capital equipment expenditure. So any additional capacity they might have, does not position them as being ahead in this respect.

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What I saw innards of players from both camps, I found Toshiba's (both A1 and A2) looked much expensive to manufacture than BD players. Look, how many "chips" on the mainboard, how big the mainboard is, and so on...

You can't use such layman logic to account for cost. There are chips like the Intel quad core CPU that cost $1,000, and other CPUs which cost less than $5. We are not selling watermelons where you can count each and account for them that way.

As to PCB ("mainboard"), the number of layers and complexity of testing it determines its cost, which obviously you can't determine by just looking at it.

Above all, volume has a lot to do with this and we know very well that Toshiba sells more HD DVD players than a number of BD stand-alone players combined.

Anyway, I think you have and continue to be the lone voice saying BD is cheaper than HD DVD to manufacture. No BD company has officially claimed such a thing. And if it were true, I am sure they would not be so shy.

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post #114 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

Yes, youre right the PS3 will probably not sell another one after Dec 24. They should just stop making them now.

I hope not. I'm planning to buy one, and I think Kosty was considering it as well.

Back to your point. Sure they'll continue to sell, but if you think that the same pent up demand will exist in Q1, Q2 or Q3 as exists during the Chsritmas shopping season, you're wrong.

Then again, if Sony continues to produce PS3s at a slow trickle, it may not matter. It will become an entirely supply bound equation and demand will not be a factor.

In other words ....good news, bad news. The good news is Sony can sell as many PS3s as they can make. The bad news, Sony can only sell as many PS3s as they can make.
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post #115 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post


Overall, this article seems fairly balanced to me, taking swipes at all three console makers.

What am I missing here, any comments?

Oh... maybe the numbers he keeps pulling out of thin air. Like....
Quote:


a near 20x installed base advantage against Sony in terms of next generation consoles by the end of 2006.

In the US the Xb360 will be around 4 million... (Robbie) can't even come close to telling any kind of truth...

b2b


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post #116 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

First, Sony is not a "supplier" as they are not selling them to others. Second, they may be able to produce more because they spent millions of dollars installing multiple parallel lines, to compensate for poor yields. Others can do the same, should the business call for such high capital equipment expenditure. So any additional capacity they might have, does not position them as being ahead in this respect.........

Hi Amir. You bring up a good point regarding Sony compensating for their yield problems by building more production lines. Can you shed any light on why we haven't seen the benfits of such measures yet? It would seem that Sony should have ramped their capacity appropriately earlier this year in anticipation of the PS3 launch.
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post #117 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 11:13 AM
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Some how the PS2 outsold the 360 in 2006. Who doesnt think the PS3 cant do the same?
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post #118 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 11:15 AM
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Well

http://nexgenwars.com/

as of now :

Xbox 360 (8,646,088)
PS3 (469,779)

That's 8646088/469779 = 18.40 to 1

(Gee thats kinda close to a near 20x installed base advantage?)

Got better numbers, before you start calling someone else an idiot?

IIRC The North American numbers are probably 4 million to 200,000, thats around that 20:1 number.

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post #119 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

Hi Amir. You bring up a good point regarding Sony compensating for their yield problems by building more production lines. Can you shed any light on why we haven't seen the benfits of such measures yet? It would seem that Sony should have ramped their capacity appropriately earlier this year in anticipation of the PS3 launch.

Actually you have seen the benefits . Without them, there would be far less PS3s than there were.

The level of investment by Sony here is quite significant. But this also bought them additional problems in that getting all of those lines running and operational has been problematic. When yields are low, one does not know what makes things work, and what doesn't. So the multiple lines do not behave the same, requiring seperate attention to get them to produce good components. This is why one can't afford to add more lines even if cost were no object.

My hat is off to Sony engineers killing themselves trying to produce these diodes in any way, and at any cost they can.

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post #120 of 6336 Old 12-17-2006, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

Some how the PS2 outsold the 360 in 2006. Who doesnt think the PS3 cant do the same?

Price
Availablity
Games Available
Irritation with Sony with putting a Blu-ray player in the console which jacks up the price.
Did I say price?

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