Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 01:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Grubert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,892
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdragon View Post

Right now we do! This may be the only time when we do count!

Enjoy your fifteen minutes.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
Grubert is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 01:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
onanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaesare View Post

We are AVS'ers. We don't count.

In any case, in my mind there is a difference between somebody making a prediction about something, vs. defending what the BDA folks are doing: encouraging people to by machines that will NOT enable all features in upcoming titles without disclosing what their investment doesn't buy them.

Excuse me, is your HD DVD player BD-LIVE capable (or equivalent)?

It seems you are very interested in having those features. You are certainly welcome to buy a BD-LIVE player when it is available.
onanie is offline  
post #183 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 01:56 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
kdragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: California, USA
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

Enjoy your fifteen minutes.

I did!

"I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." - George Bernard Shaw
"I want lossless audio. Let me be the judge of what is good enough for me" - kdragon :)
kdragon is offline  
post #184 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 06:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

I stand by it (regarding the console war that is.....still too close on the format war). I'm sure you'll remember to point out my mistake repeatedly if I turn out to be wrong. Not really feeling there's a high likelihood of that though.

Well you are free to be as pessimistic about the PS3 as you like.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

But we still don't know if it's full BD-Live yet, do we?

Not yet, and it is good to see that though no one even mentioned this you went out of your way to spread uncertainty about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

Name the BD title you've seen that provides better PQ and AQ than the best HD DVD title you've seen.

Well that wouldn't be hard to do since I haven't actually watched any HD DVD titles. As for your question it is stated in such a way to be completely irrelevant since there are a few reference titles on both HD formats. Once again can you tell me with absolute certainty that none of the Blu-ray discs released didn't look better because they had a higher maximum peak bit rate to work with?


Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

I'm happy for you that you're happy with them.

But you're happy with them because they're "good enough" for your needs, not because they provided as good an experience as an equivalent set of HD DVD titles.

Impressive piece of propaganda, not only did you bash what I bought you even criticized Blu-ray as a format at the same time. It is even more impressive considering you don't even know what I bought or even if it is available on HD DVD. Still when did propaganda against Blu-ray ever rely on anything as trivial as facts or the truth?
Richard Paul is offline  
post #185 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 07:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaesare View Post

The point is it's a FACT that there are players today that will not be able to use known, planned features for discs.

Sure, and you have stated this many times over and why exactly do you want to keep repeating it? Do you hate Blu-ray? Do you support HD DVD? What are you reasons for doing this?

Call me skeptical but I don't think this is being done simply to inform consumers. After all there are many issues that consumers need to be informed of and this is just one of them. How many HD DVD player owners bought their player without knowing the technical differences between Blu-ray and HD DVD? How many of them know the differences between BD-J and HDi? How many of them knew which studios and CE companies were supporting Blu-ray and HD DVD? It seems to me that if somebody really wanted to inform consumers they would want to inform them of everything.
Richard Paul is offline  
post #186 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 09:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AnthonyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 17,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


The point is it's a FACT that there are players today that will not be able to use known, planned features for discs.

agree scaesare, but that is true for both sides
AnthonyP is offline  
post #187 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 09:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Paul_Seng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orlando,FL, USA
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Well that wouldn't be hard to do since I haven't actually watched any HD DVD titles. As for your question it is stated in such a way to be completely irrelevant since there are a few reference titles on both HD formats. Once again can you tell me with absolute certainty that none of the Blu-ray discs released didn't look better because they had a higher maximum peak bit rate to work with?

Richard, you do know that that bitrate was really by design only going to be used for MPEG2, right?
I understand you back blu ray. But are you hoping it will get better because it has to? I think many of us believe that A: it won't and B: HD DVD gives us high quality already without having to wait for nirvana.
Right now I have seen Click, Monster House and Into the Blue (I know, couldn't pass up jessica alba in HD with only a bikini on even after the reviews) and from those movies I haven't seen anything that has blown me away (I always said I was going to buy a PS3 for games and blu ray, I did). I am not saying they are poor, but so far I give HD DVD titles the edge to picture quality. I am waiting for that "blown away" title that will change my mind, but I don't think it will come. HD DVD has proven that 30GB is enough for a good quality, 3 hour movie (I have not seen any artifacts that Gary talked about with King Kong using my Toshiba or MS addon). And yes, I have watched on a 1080P RPTV and a 720P projector.

Paul Seng
Paul_Seng is offline  
post #188 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 10:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
2Channel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Well if you look real close a the chart, you will see that almost every console was introduced right before the holiday season showing a small spike. It is the year after introduction and that years holiday season that really show the potential sales curves.

The best curve on the chart is the PS2 and the only one that crosses the #2 seller (PS). The PS2 is just a phenomenal seller and if people keep buying it, why should Sony quit making it ? It is outselling the Xb360 and combined PS2 + PS3 sales next year will still put Sony at the top of the heap.

b2b

Ok b2b, I finally got some time to sit down and review your chart. First of all, these aren't charts of sales volume, but installed base. At least in my line of work, when we discuss sales curves, they are sales volume curves, not installed base.

That aside, yes, it takes time for a new product to build installed base, and yes the PS2 built installed base quickly. So here are some observations on the chart. There is only one historical example of a console getting into the market ahead of the curve, building up an installed base of millions of units and then loosing to a challenger that came to market a year later. That product was the Dreamcast and it lost to the PS2.

The general rule is that when a console can get to market before its generation of competitors and reach the 10 Million installed base level first, it goes on to rule that generation.

Sega had a disaster with the Saturn, alienated EA and was on the ropes financially when they were selling Dreamcast. So yes, the PS2 came to market and within 9 months had surpassed the installed base of the Dreamcast. The PS2 also had a 1 year lead on the Xbox and Gamecube and made it to the 10 million mark before those consoles.

Two questions for you...do you believe the PS3 has any chance of passing the Xbox360 installed base within 9 months of its launch? Do you believe the PS3 has any chance of getting to a 10 million unit installed base before the Xbox360?

BTW, I never said Sony should quit making the PS2, it's generating a profit after all. My point was that I've never seen a console maker run tv spots for their old console after the launch of their new console. There is only one reason for this, Sony doesn't have PS3s to sell. If they did, every tv spot from Sony games would be about the PS3.
2Channel is offline  
post #189 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 11:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Seng View Post

Richard, you do know that that bitrate was really by design only going to be used for MPEG2, right?

It is irrelevant why they decided on a maximum AV bit rate of 48 Mbps and to imply that it is only beneficial for MPEG-2 is done without any evidence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Seng View Post

I understand you back blu ray. But are you hoping it will get better because it has to? I think many of us believe that A: it won't and B: HD DVD gives us high quality already without having to wait for nirvana.

I don't think you have been keeping up on the quality level of recent Blu-ray titles to make such a negative statement. Either that or you have begun to believe a lot of the FUD about Blu-ray that is routinely spread on this forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Seng View Post

HD DVD has proven that 30GB is enough for a good quality, 3 hour movie

Okay, but I have before said that HD DVD was a good video format. I just think that Blu-ray is a better video format.
Richard Paul is offline  
post #190 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 11:18 PM
 
What'sHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 973
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Okay, but I have before said that HD DVD was a good video format. I just think that Blu-ray is a better video format.

Amen
What'sHD is offline  
post #191 of 6336 Old 12-18-2006, 11:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
b2bonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ducking for cover....
Posts: 5,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

Ok b2b, I finally got some time to sit down and review your chart. First of all, these aren't charts of sales volume, but installed base. At least in my line of work, when we discuss sales curves, they are sales volume curves, not installed base.

That aside, yes, it takes time for a new product to build installed base, and yes the PS2 built installed base quickly. So here are some observations on the chart. There is only one historical example of a console getting into the market ahead of the curve, building up an installed base of millions of units and then loosing to a challenger that came to market a year later. That product was the Dreamcast and it lost to the PS2.

The general rule is that when a console can get to market before its generation of competitors and reach the 10 Million installed base level first, it goes on to rule that generation.

Sega had a disaster with the Saturn, alienated EA and was on the ropes financially when they were selling Dreamcast. So yes, the PS2 came to market and within 9 months had surpassed the installed base of the Dreamcast. The PS2 also had a 1 year lead on the Xbox and Gamecube and made it to the 10 million mark before those consoles.

Two questions for you...do you believe the PS3 has any chance of passing the Xbox360 installed base within 9 months of its launch? Do you believe the PS3 has any chance of getting to a 10 million unit installed base before the Xbox360?

BTW, I never said Sony should quit making the PS2, it's generating a profit after all. My point was that I've never seen a console maker run tv spots for their old console after the launch of their new console. There is only one reason for this, Sony doesn't have PS3s to sell. If they did, every tv spot from Sony games would be about the PS3.

I really don't get your "installed base" vs "sales" differentiation. They can't get "installed" if they don't get "sold".

"Two questions..." question. Don't follow the game stuff close enough to guess. I would say that Sony would be happy with an "installed" base of 10 million PS3 by Feb.-March 2008. Just as MS would be for Xb360 Feb.-March 2007.

Promoting a profitable product is somehow bad business. ?? Don't think so. PS2 is dirt cheap and money in your pocket means that in most cases you kept it out of your competitors..

b2b


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~ 1918-2003
A Toshiba spokesman, said that "from an engineer's point of view, the Blu-ray is a masterpiece.."
b2bonez is offline  
post #192 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 12:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Issac Hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,644
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Interesting graph, bonez. Though that's only for the US of course where Microsoft have enjoyed their greatest success. I'd love to see graphs for Europe and Japan as well. They might be even more fun!
Issac Hunt is offline  
post #193 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 04:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TomsHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Douglassville, PA
Posts: 4,705
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdragon View Post

No doubt. I agree. However, I don't expect all the new features to work -- ones that weren't supported when I bought the player -- but expect gracious behavior from the player. That is, new features should not break the features that are supported. One such important feature is "play the damn movie". I expect that to work.

Since these players are highly programmable, I may be pleasantly surprised if new features are also usable in these players, but that would be a wish.

Agreed, obviously I don't expect my player that doesn't even have a internet connection to all of a sudden start playing Live features come June 07. But what I am worried about is as you said I expect it to play the damn movie, all BR movies.

Look at some of the newer movies for HD DVD where the movie wont play at all unless you have updated your firmware in order to be compatible for U-Control extra features that you may or may not use during the movie.

I'll be flipping if I hear that because a movie may have some incompatible Live feature that I may not be able to play the movie at all after spending 1k on a player.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TomsHT is offline  
post #194 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 05:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Grubert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,892
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


Wicked Pictures, Dimension DVD Produce First Adult HD-DVD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANOGA PARK, Calif. - Wicked Pictures has become the first adult video company to penetrate the HD-DVD market with its release of Jonathan Morgan's slasher-movie spoof, Camp Cuddly Pines Power Tool Massacre. The title is tentatively slated to ship on Friday.

Representatives from Wicked and authoring house Dimension DVD brought a check disc of the finished product to AVN's offices for a demonstration Monday afternoon. Boasting vivid color and detail, the anamorphic widescreen presentation showcases the unprecedented quality and interactivity of the HD format.

We started doing the preliminary work on this in March, said Jackie Ramos, vice president of DVD production for Wicked Pictures. We really started conceptualizing it before that point; we've been talking about going over to HD-DVD for over a year now. As soon as we heard that great strides were being made in the mainstream world with this format, we've always had our ear to the ground. There were a lot of hurdlesit was a lot more work than we thought. I've heard through the grapevine that other companies have been ready to do this, but that when it came down to it, they weren't ready for the technical problems that go along with it.

Wicked selected Camp Cuddly Pines as its first HD-DVD release based on the title's popularity. Morgan's feature won the AVN's Best Sex Comedy Award in 2006. We looked in our vault to see what we had as far as hi-definition, and Camp Cuddly Pines seemed like an obvious choice, Ramos said. It's been a very popular bestseller for us, and a lot of our newer stuff was still being edited when we started testing the new format. We asked Dimension for their opinion, and they agreed on Camp Cuddly -- when they had the encoding ready, we said, okay, let's roll with it.

One of the major hurdles that Wicked and Dimension encountered was the scripting of advanced content menus, which allow viewers to navigate options without interrupting the feature.

The functionality of the disc is the same quality as any mainstream product out there, said Dimension DVD President Daniel Milstein, who has worked closely with Ramos from the project's inception. We used the same exact encoder that the major mainstream studios useit took about two weeks to encode the feature, frame-by-frame. It takes a lot of processing power.

The first one is always the hardest, added Dimension VP Robert Brickman. Now that we know the procedure, we'll be able to do it faster the next time out.

According to Ramos, Wicked already has additional titles in the HD queue, including the AVN-nominated Curse Eternal. We're going to follow up with our other new releases after that, he said. It's been a long, hard road doing this; at times, it got tense. The leading edge of technology is a dangerous place to be sometimes. But we're really happy with the outcome. When I took the check disc home and watched it on my plasma TV, I was amazed by the color and the definition. It's incredible.

Camp Cuddly Pines Power Tool Massacre will be available at this January's AVN Adult Entertainment Expo. The HD-DVD package will also contain a standard-def DVD sampler with five sex scenes from Wicked releases including the aforementioned Curse Eternal, Sleeping Around, Brad Armstrong's **** and Manhunters and Julia Ann Hardcore.

"While getting to the market first certainly is very exciting for us, it was more important to us that we put out a properly functioning disc, said Wicked Pictures President Steve Orenstein. Jackie has spent countless hours with Dimension DVD to make sure we release a quality product, and I think we have definitely succeeded."

Thanks to forum member Bigkhrisdogg for first posting this.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
Grubert is offline  
post #195 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 07:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdragon View Post

No doubt. I agree. However, I don't expect all the new features to work -- ones that weren't supported when I bought the player -- but expect gracious behavior from the player. That is, new features should not break the features that are supported. One such important feature is "play the damn movie". I expect that to work.

Since these players are highly programmable, I may be pleasantly surprised if new features are also usable in these players, but that would be a wish.

Fare enough. But, as has been part of my argument all along, HOW DOES ONE KNOW THIS TODAY?.

Seriously. Please show me where anybody is being told that new features are already approved and coming so they can make that decision. Other than the 0.000001% of the population that frequents this forum. Gimme a manufacturer link, an in-store display, a BDA link.. anything that allows me to come to the same conclcusion you did if I wasn't an AVS'er.

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #196 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 07:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdragon View Post

Right now we do! This may be the only time when we do count!

Oh... right...

UNITE!

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #197 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 07:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by onanie View Post

Excuse me, is your HD DVD player BD-LIVE capable (or equivalent)?

It seems you are very interested in having those features. You are certainly welcome to buy a BD-LIVE player when it is available.

I'll have to assume that was facetious: HD DVD doesn't use BD-J, but rather HDi, therefore BD-J profiles are not applicable.

I AM interested in such features however, and to the best of my knowledge there are no known approved HDi features that will be forthcoming that my player is incapable of. What's more, one of them, PiP, is already in use on titles and works on my player. If my Toshiba A2 is incapable of something like netowrk interactivty, you are darn right I will be pissed.

Insiders here have told us that as PART OF THE PLAN new features coming on BD-Live discs will not work on BD-Video players. Insiders have told us that THERE IS NO SUCH PLAN for HDi.

Allow me to state the principle once again, however: What I really want is the opportunity to make a fully informed decision regarding what my $1500 buys me.

What's so hard about the BDA simply being upfront to the consumer who's heart and wallet they want so badly to win over? And why would you not support that?

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #198 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 07:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

But we still don't know if it's full BD-Live yet, do we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post


Not yet, and it is good to see that though no one even mentioned this you went out of your way to spread uncertainty about this.

Umm... Richard? Nobody moentioned this?

You and I (and others) have been debating the issues surrounding the uncertainlty of BD-Live profile compliance for a week or more now.

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #199 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 07:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Sure, and you have stated this many times over and why exactly do you want to keep repeating it? Do you hate Blu-ray? Do you support HD DVD? What are you reasons for doing this?

Call me skeptical but I don't think this is being done simply to inform consumers. After all there are many issues that consumers need to be informed of and this is just one of them. How many HD DVD player owners bought their player without knowing the technical differences between Blu-ray and HD DVD? How many of them know the differences between BD-J and HDi? How many of them knew which studios and CE companies were supporting Blu-ray and HD DVD? It seems to me that if somebody really wanted to inform consumers they would want to inform them of everything.

You may be skeptical. That's fine with me. Why I keep stating it: because for some inexplicable reason it seems that folks here would rather not agree it's in the best intrests of we as consumers for the BDA to disclose this information up front.

And (prepare to be shocked), I agree with you that consumers should know as much as possible.

For those other issues, there seem to be readily avilable sources of information: There are published release calendars, titles have clear distinctive format labeling on the case, boxes have industry recognizable logos on them for codec support, CE companies clearly state what format a player is on their advertising collateral, etc...

This is one area where, IMO, people are NOT being given the information to make an informed decision that will impact them.

Seriously: I got's no problems criticizing even things I like or own. Why would you NOT want to have more info out in the wild about this?

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #200 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 07:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

agree scaesare, but that is true for both sides

Can you give me a HDi example?

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #201 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 07:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

I don't think you have been keeping up on the quality level of recent Blu-ray titles to make such a negative statement. Either that or you have begun to believe a lot of the FUD about Blu-ray that is routinely spread on this forum.

I'll give you this Ricard: it takes something (cajones?, gall?) to criticize somebody who has personally evaluated both formats, right after you admitted to not having watched a HD DVD movie.

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #202 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 08:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Grubert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,892
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Toshiba launches HD-E1 DVD system in Europe

Quote:
Japanese tech giant Toshiba has launched their latest HD DVD player in the European market.

The company now wants the European customer to use their HD-E1 DVD system rather than the rival Blu-Ray format.

What has the world come to?

Quote:
Toshiba further said that they are aiming at 500,000 worldwide sales of its HD-DVD player by March 2007.

Okay, a new figure to pummel into a pulp. Ding!

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
Grubert is offline  
post #203 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 08:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
b2bonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ducking for cover....
Posts: 5,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

Toshiba launches HD-E1 DVD system in Europe



What has the world come to?

Quote:
Toshiba further said that they are aiming at 500,000 worldwide sales of its HD-DVD player by March 2007.

Okay, a new figure to pummel into a pulp. Ding!

Only thing I can figure is they are using the inventory count for blue laser diodes they bought from Nichia to meet purchase contracts.. or it's another "pass the pipe" prediction to keep WB happy. Trouble is, WB is reported to be in rehab...
Quote:
Their new player being launched in Europe will retail for about £450. This is almost half the price of competing Blu-ray players in the market.

Yikes !! 450GBP = 884USD

Is the EU being taken to the cleaners so US products are cheap ??

b2b


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~ 1918-2003
A Toshiba spokesman, said that "from an engineer's point of view, the Blu-ray is a masterpiece.."
b2bonez is offline  
post #204 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 09:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
crussader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Re the BD Live vs BD Video features:

I don't think the real issue is the expectation of current players to use BD Live features. The issue is current BD Video players being unable to use future BD Video functionality. The best example at the moment is PiP. Talk has explicitly stated that PiP is NOT a BD Live feature. It is a required BD Video feature after Jun 07. So next summer we will have BD Video players that can perform all BD Video functions and BD Video players that will not perform all BD Video functions. This has great potential for consumer confusion.

David
crussader is offline  
post #205 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 09:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
crussader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

Yikes !! 450GBP = 884USD

Is the EU being taken to the cleaners so US products are cheap ??

b2b

It is a result of the devaluation of the dollar vs. the pound.

David
crussader is offline  
post #206 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 09:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scaesare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussader View Post

Re the BD Live vs BD Video features:

I don't think the real issue is the expectation of current players to use BD Live features. The issue is current BD Video players being unable to use future BD Video functionality. The best example at the moment is PiP. Talk has explicitly stated that PiP is NOT a BD Live feature. It is a required BD Video feature after Jun 07. So next summer we will have BD Video players that can perform all BD Video functions and BD Video players that will not perform all BD Video functions. This has great potential for consumer confusion.

Agreed. And resentment from those who purchased without being told this.

-Steve
scaesare is offline  
post #207 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 09:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
2Channel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

I really don't get your "installed base" vs "sales" differentiation. They can't get "installed" if they don't get "sold".

"Two questions..." question. Don't follow the game stuff close enough to guess. I would say that Sony would be happy with an "installed" base of 10 million PS3 by Feb.-March 2008. Just as MS would be for Xb360 Feb.-March 2007.

Promoting a profitable product is somehow bad business. ?? Don't think so. PS2 is dirt cheap and money in your pocket means that in most cases you kept it out of your competitors..

b2b

A sales volume graph would show units sold each quarter (or perhaps month). This will help you more easily identify product transtions from one generation to the next.

10 million PS3s by feb-march 2008? Is that what they promissed the studios?
In any case this is why I say the format war is still undecided. Sony could end up loosing the console war to MS in North America and Nintendo in Japan, and still manage to cary the format war.......it just becomes much harder to pull off.

Yes, promoting a profitable product can be bad business. You don't buy ads for Windows XP after Vista is released. The PS2 already has huge market share, you don't need to spend money building that installed base anymore. This is purely to hold off the competition (as you stated in your post), because they can't make many PS3s. It always comes back to that same problem, and time is not on Sony's side in this.
2Channel is offline  
post #208 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 10:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
b2bonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ducking for cover....
Posts: 5,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

A sales volume graph would show units sold each quarter (or perhaps month). This will help you more easily identify product transtions from one generation to the next.

10 million PS3s by feb-march 2008? Is that what they promissed the studios?
In any case this is why I say the format war is still undecided. Sony could end up loosing the console war to MS in North America and Nintendo in Japan, and still manage to cary the format war.......it just becomes much harder to pull off.

Yes, promoting a profitable product can be bad business. You don't buy ads for Windows XP after Vista is released. The PS2 already has huge market share, you don't need to spend money building that installed base anymore. This is purely to hold off the competition (as you stated in your post), because they can't make many PS3s. It always comes back to that same problem, and time is not on Sony's side in this.

The chart shows the sales progress. It's just not a fine granularity that you speak of. You can clearly see the "sales" spikes of all the different consoles around the holiday sales periods.

10 million US sales would match the PS2 for its first year.. Nothing wrong with that.. see attached file..

Yeez.. What sort of pointy-hair school of business did you go to..?? Profits are bad ???

b2b
LL


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~ 1918-2003
A Toshiba spokesman, said that "from an engineer's point of view, the Blu-ray is a masterpiece.."
b2bonez is offline  
post #209 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 11:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Paul_Seng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orlando,FL, USA
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

I don't think you have been keeping up on the quality level of recent Blu-ray titles to make such a negative statement. Either that or you have begun to believe a lot of the FUD about Blu-ray that is routinely spread on this forum.

I bought Monster House which, according to some, shows blu ray at it's best. And contrary to you I have bought into both and have bought and watched movies on both before I make any conclusion. How can you say anything negative about HD DVD if you yourself admit to never having watched any movie on that format? How do you know it's not better than Blu Ray? How do you know the movies your watching are hands down better than HD DVD. The above statement you make is now showing the hypocracy in your posts. You can't have it both ways. Someone that has both (and there are many others here) have watched in the comfort of their own home and not one has said that blu ray is hands down better. But somehow you want to contradict their views without YOU having done the same thing.

PS. maybe hypocritcal was the wrong word. But I still stand by my assertion that to have a stand based on just viewing one format and not both is not common sense and in a way insulting to those who did.

Paul Seng
Paul_Seng is offline  
post #210 of 6336 Old 12-19-2006, 12:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wco81's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 4,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 59
It's also useless to form opinions on the relative merits of both formats on the basis of the first year of releases.
wco81 is offline  
Closed Thread HDTV Software Media Discussion

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off