Industry Insiders Q&A MASTER THREAD [separate thread for Xbox/Add On & PS3] - Page 105 - AVS Forum
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post #3121 of 4841 Old 03-27-2007, 10:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkilian View Post

I have no idea about any of your other questions, but I asked this same question when I first joined the HD DVD team (which also contained a number of people who worked on WMV-HD), and it was explained to me that WMV-HD would most probably never be supported on the XBox 360, due to the way they do security on the discs.

Well it requires a network connection, if they are not going to support it w/360, I'd like to see the same IMAX titles out on HD DVD format with a swap program. I am sure Amir can convince them to do VC-1 encodes...

By the way you can actually get some WMV-HD's to play on the 360 using WMC, but it's painful to navigate...
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post #3122 of 4841 Old 03-27-2007, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

For movies, yes. For music, no. Note that I say this wrt to what my personal way of experience these two types of content. When I listen to music, I close my eyes and really listen and can detect anything that might interfere with that enjoyment. With movies, I am busy following the story, getting rumbled on explosions, and enjoying the great production/acting. As such, I just don't nitpick the soundtrack like I would with music. And 1.5 mbit/sec DD+ sounds just great to me. And if I am satisfied, I know a ton of people are too.

For marketing reasons though, if I were king, I would want to offer lossless on select titles where it would add to the perception of something better being there.

No offence intended Amir, having met you I think you're a very likeable guy, with a very good (almost Woody Allen-esque) way of telling stuff, however, I'm not sure I can take any comments on SQ that seriously from the team that gave us a DD+ decoder stuck in night mode.

To those of us who bought the Xbox HD-DVD player on launch (over 4 months ago now ), it was apparent that something was wrong from day one. We've heard various excuses including from yourself that part of the problem was due to downsampling to DD. None of that was particularly believable when good old fashioned DD at 448kbps on DVD sounded much better. Even broadcast DD 5.1 in the UK on SkyHD sounds better and I hate to think what starved bitrate they're using.

It is completely unacceptable for something so simple to fix, that a fix has STILL NOT been provided. My patience (and many others) is now wearing extremely thin as quite frankly, as it stands, the device is not fit for purpose. We need a date for the update NOW please, and I think the time has come where if MS were serious about HD-DVD and their customers that some sort of compensation should be offered to owners by way of an apology. A free HD-DVD would be a good start. I know I am not alone when I say that because the SQ is so un-enjoyable on the majority of discs, I have not been buying them, and those I have do not get played much because the sound is so flat.

No more excuses please.

As for DD+ 1.5Mbps for films, I have one question. Does DD+ limit you to 16bits?
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post #3123 of 4841 Old 03-27-2007, 11:52 PM
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I am with Ian on this one. I am not sure what the 'quality matrix' status on your end but the quality matrix on our end is pretty bad.

Spring is already upon us, please just release the DD+ fix.
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post #3124 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ckong View Post

I am with Ian on this one. I am not sure what the 'quality matrix' status on your end but the quality matrix on our end is pretty bad.

Spring is already upon us, please just release the DD+ fix.

Perhaps the delay was in getting TrueHD and DTS-HD MA decoding lumped into the update so that the Elite can get these at launch? Amir, care to comment on my speculation?
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post #3125 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_S View Post

As for DD+ 1.5Mbps for films, I have one question. Does DD+ limit you to 16bits?

No, up to 24 bits
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post #3126 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 01:30 AM
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Hello Amir!

Will the Xbox 360 Elite have a HDMI 1.3 Output and use HDMI to transport PCM-Multichannel and Bitstream Audio?
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post #3127 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexBC View Post

Paidgeek,

are you still around?

With the recent announcement of Meatballs on BD, will it carry the original audio in uncompressed or lossless form? I'd be glad if you could comment on Revenge as well, since it went un-answered.

Thanks

Alex,

I am not in the office, but the information forwarded to me shows that "Meatballs" has a 5.1 LPCM 16/48, 5.1 DD 640Kbps, and 2ch DD 192Kbps.

"Revenge" has a 5.1 LPCM 16/48 and 5.1 DD 640Kbps. It shows the 5.1 as being an orignal version, so without doing any further research, this should not be a conversion.

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post #3128 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 03:07 AM
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A question for Amir:

Will the Xbox 360 Elite upscale DVD movies via HDMI to 1080p? Or is the upscaling still limited to VGA output?

And there will be a 24hz option for HD DVD output via HDMI?
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post #3129 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Yes, there can be issues with decoders. But a much bigger problem is that the levels are not the same for any of this. They could be off by as much as 4db or more (i.e. twice as loud). This can make a huge difference in perception of audio "quality."

Put another way, studios are not interested in creating simple benchmark discs for you all to do this kind of comparison. I wish Dobly would provide some data but they have not either.

Look for a couple of Sony Pictures titles to have both LPCM 16/48 and DD THD 20bit (dial norm off) to experiment with. The first disc out will be "Stomp the Yard", others to follow.

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post #3130 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

Look for a couple of Sony Pictures titles to have both LPCM 16/48 and DD THD 20bit (dial norm off) to experiment with. The first disc out will be "Stomp the Yard", others to follow.

Which current BR players will decode DD THD?
Ta.
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post #3131 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover2002 View Post

Which current BR players will decode DD THD?
Ta.

PS3, Others to follow soon..

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post #3132 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

PS3, Others to follow soon..

In that case why has W Bros not included DD THD on there BR titles?
Ta.
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post #3133 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 03:56 AM
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Amir,

Some additional Xbox 360 Elite questions in addition to the ones already posed, if you don't mind!

1. Is HDCP enabled for gameplay as well as HD DVD playback?

2. What type of HDMI output is used: YPrPb 4:2:2, YPrPb 4:4:4 or 24-bit RGB?

3. What resolutions are supported with the HDMI output?

The reason I ask is that Microsoft has always strongly supported all types of LCD and plasma monitor with the 360. HDCP off for gameplay, combined with a 24-bit RGB output would ensure compatibility with millions of conventional DVI monitors out there, in addition to the HDMI displays. The same selectable resolutions as offered with VGA (plus 1080i) would also be valuable in offering 1:1 pixel mapping on the majority of displays out there.

PS3 offers none of these things, being HDCP-enabled all the time, and only offering 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p resolutions.
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post #3134 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 04:09 AM
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Also what kind of audio formats will the HDMI support? 16, 20, 24bit? upto 192KHz ? In the PS3 you can set what audio resolution (and number of speakers) your receiver can handle.
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post #3135 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 05:11 AM
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Will the new 360 Elite still be able to have a VGA output? I would use HDMI for watching some movies and VGA for playing games since my TV doesn't produce any lag when using the VGA input.

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post #3136 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

PS3, Others to follow soon..

Paidgeek-

With the current Sony player be upgraded to TrueHD?

Thanks,
Chris
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post #3137 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 05:30 AM
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Amir,

Now that the 360 Elite is official, did you really suggest that early adopters that have been screwed over should just buy ANOTHER 360 to have the functionality of the Elite? I can only begin to describe how offensive that is. Since I assume the HDMI functionality is a hardware change, does MS really have no intention of offering an upgrade path beyond buy another one? What makes this so egregious is the fact that MS had outright stated there would be no HDMI on 360. So much for trusting what MS states publicly.
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post #3138 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 05:34 AM
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Amir,
The King Kong displays 1080i source from my XBOX 360 component connection into my 1080p monitor. Is this a function of the xbox 360 or the HD-DVD add on vs. the disc itself? My monitor receives 1080p games from xbox setting, so xbox 360 does output 1080p component. Will HD DVD add on with xbox 360 output any 1080p HD DVD's, and which ones are 1080p? And does this XBOX 360 Elite have a built in HD-DVD player, or still needs the HD-DVD add on???
Thanks

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post #3139 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 05:52 AM
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HD DVD is limited to 1080i over component. Limited by AACS(Advanced Access Content System).

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post #3140 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 06:12 AM
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Amir, Ben, et al...

I'm also interested in knowing if the 360 Elite's HDMI will allow any of the following: DTS-HD, TrueHD, and/or DD+ output.

Thanks

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post #3141 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

I think we were talking about 7.1 20-bit 48 KHz.

So, just to clarify:

Was this the 4+ hour LOTR: ROTK extended version with TrueHD 7.1 20/48? Somebody had mentioned that a few pages back. If that's really the one, that's very impressive, and essentially makes triple-layer HD DVD moot. Any other audio tracks?

P.S. What was the average bitrate for the TrueHD track, something like 3 Mbps? I'm guessing that because of the pic below.

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post #3142 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlotkins View Post

Paidgeek-

With the current Sony player be upgraded to TrueHD?

Thanks,
Chris

It is not out of the question, but I really don't know....

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post #3143 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 07:10 AM
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As a HD-DVD supporter, why Microsoft didn`t include a HD-DVD drive in the Xbox360 Elite version? The first sign Microsoft to support Blu-ray in the future?
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post #3144 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 07:15 AM
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Nothing was ever dropped from King Kong. This is a myth propegated by BD fans/companies which has never been grounded on facts. Next time someone mentions it to you, ask them which Universal titles used lossless before that. They won't find much. Hey, ask them if they know who encoded the title. I bet they don't know that either, let alone have any knowledge of what decisions went to this superb, reference quality A/V encode.

Amir,

perhaps the better way to address this question is to clarify if a 16, 20, or 24-bit Dolby True HD track (48 kHz) *could* have been authored on the King Kong HD DVD. If there's room... then great, we've just got a studio not making audiophile decisions and we need to let them know we want lossless audio (as we should get with every HD DVD or BD title... PERIOD).

If there's *not* room to accomodate the lossless track, then regardless of Universal's pattern of providing or not providing lossless, or their intentions with this particular title, that's an important consideration given the limitations of the format.

Any information you can share? Is there space on the King Kong HD DVD to accomodate a lossless audio track in Dolby TrueHD? And at what resolution?


It's so frustrating that so many of the studios producing oustanding HD DVDs seem so reluctant to provide lossless audio.

Also, please echo our sentiment to any studio contact you have to leave Dialog Normalization set to off (-31 db) for all lossless encodings. It's counterproductive to encode a bit-for-bit copy of the master and then force data-recaluclation from the output of your Dolby Decoder so you can never achieve bit-for-bit accuracy. Also, 16-bit encodes from 20 and 24 bit masters are not "lossless", they merely avoid psychoacoustic data compression artifacting. Lossless is a comprehensive term that should mean "bit for bit". Anything less than a bit-for-bit copy of that original PCM master is NOT Lossless.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #3145 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 07:22 AM
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@paidgeek, would you mind checking this question of mine (from a few pages ago) out?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10127475
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post #3146 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 07:30 AM
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I second the desire to see high-definition trailers. For a chance, I would *enjoy* previews instead of do my best to avoid them.

Paidgeek,

thanks for taking to heart our request for no dialog-normalization with your Dolby TrueHD encodes!

Question, when you get a chance, could you comment on the possibility for using the 2nd video stream on Blu-ray for 3-D capability? It seems to me that since BD can provide full 1080p24 quality on the 2nd video stream (and has the bandwidth to do a fine compression of both primary and secondary video streams that share the same "pipe"), it would be an incredible way to get high-fidelity 3-D encoding because you could support both 1080p24 streams side-by-side on the disc. A firmware-updated BD player could matrix them into a single 1080p48 stream for output for those with synchonrized LCD shutter glasses, or possibly a high-end BD player with dual HDMI output could power two projector devices for high-end 3-D projection.

In any case, have you heard of any source consider this application for 3-D encoding? I realize Sony may not have the world's largest library of 3-D movies, but I'm wondering if you've heard conversation about this or ever considered it as a possibility for the format in general.

thanks!

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #3147 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

So, just to clarify:

Was this the 4+ hour LOTR: ROTK extended version with TrueHD 7.1 20/48? Somebody had mentioned that a few pages back. If that's really the one, that's very impressive, and essentially makes triple-layer HD DVD moot. Any other audio tracks?

Yes, that was the above. We also assumed carrying over all the other commentary tracks from the original 4-disc set. Basically, the goal is to provide the complete experience of the first two discs of that set, on one side of one disc, in great HD.

Quote:


P.S. What was the average bitrate for the TrueHD track, something like 3 Mbps? I'm guessing that because of the pic below.


That's probably ballpark right, but you can't precisely predict average MLP bandwidth in advance, since it's intrinsically VBR.

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post #3148 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 09:01 AM
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hi Amir.

Will current XBOX360 owners (like myself) be able to purchase a compatible HDMI cable for use with our 360's or will those who want HDMI be forced to pay for a whole new 360?

Thank you for you time.
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post #3149 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 09:34 AM
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And here comes my usual question which is still awaiting a satifactory answer...

BD and HD DVD insiders... why is WB still omitting Dolby TrueHD lossless tracks on BD titles when those lossless tracks are provided on corresponding HD DVD titles? Telling me that Dolby TrueHD decoding isn't required in BD hardware isn't a real answer and is a redherring since all BD players can provide a listenable 640 kbps DD core from a Dolby TrueHD stream (not to mention that the PS3 has decoding and so will most other BD players shortly).

From the sidelines it looks like WB is leveraging this short-changing of their BD titles to boost HD DVD sales of affected titles. Any thoughts? Is this going to change?

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #3150 of 4841 Old 03-28-2007, 09:34 AM
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To any BD insiders:
I am currently a HD DVD owner but am considering buying a PS3 primarily for BD; can you tell me if after Oct. PS3s will be required to support 1.1?
The reason I ask is that, if I remember right, BD insider Talk mentioned in another thread that CEs can't make new models that don't support 1.1 after the cutoff, but are still allowed to continue manufacturing EXISTING models that don't support 1.1 after the cutoff;
assuming the PS3 counts as an existing model, is the PS3 grandfathered in with respect to not being required to support 1.1? Thanks.
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