Industry Insiders Q&A MASTER THREAD [separate thread for Xbox/Add On & PS3] - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 4841 Old 01-07-2007, 11:30 PM
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HD-DVD insiders,

When will we hear more about Microsoft's partnership (?) with DirecTV? What does it encompass exactly?

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a...
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post #362 of 4841 Old 01-07-2007, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Amir, assuming the many reports from CES that the LG BH-100 doesn't support HD DVD interactivity beyond that of legacy DVD prove to be accurate, several questions come to find.

Will do my best to answer them.

Quote:


  1. The obvious question is how can LG release an HD DVD player which doesn't support HDi? After all of the discussion here about how HD DVD has many mandatory features which are currently optional in Blu-ray (i.e. network connectivity, secondary video support), is there in fact a specific HD DVD format license which doesn't require HDi support? If not, how can LG release an HD DVD player which doesn't support HDi? If so, why haven't we heard anything about it yet?

  1. Anyone can get a copy of the HD DVD spec and go build something out of it. The player does not explode if it doesn't support all the features . The "teeth" is in the logo license. If you want to put HD DVD on the player, you must comply with all the specifications including mandatory interactivity features. There is a 90 day grace period from what I recall after which point, you better be compliant with all the tests. If you don't pass, you don't get to use the logo.

    Customers who want real HD DVD functionality must look for the logo and purchase equipment appropriately.

    Quote:


    This nugget of information makes the whole Blu-ray profile discussion look downright trivial!

    Per above, no open standards organization can keep people from seeing its specs, and implementing portions of it. That is quite a different matter from BDA making variations and permutations of the spec which people can implement, with full blessing of BDA including logo. Talking about logos, the best thing you could do to reduce confusion about your product is to have logos for BD-Live, etc. But something tells me you won't go there.

    Quote:


  2. Do you still consider the announced release of this player to be a net positive for HD DVD? Wouldn't you expect studios to choose to release on Blu-ray so they can actually provide interactivity?
    I think it is hugely positive for HD DVD. Just a week ago, you were claiming you had all of these BD CE companies who thought they were going to finish off HD DVD in a few months and had no intention of doing anything different. Yet, one of your major CE companies is saying HD DVD is here to stay and wants to build compatibility with that format. Everyone from the press is asking me about LG today and they all saw it as proof of HD DVD making solid progress in the market.

    Most importantly, LG dared to cross the line. They announced HD DVD support. There will be others. And I am sure LG will also build fully compliant products, if this one is not it. The positive reception will certainly entice them to do so.

    Quote:


  3. Have you asked Gates or Ballmer to call the chairman of LG yet to demand a "clarification" of this information to reflect that the released player will fully support HDi?
    Not necessary. I will be meeting with them later this week .

Quote:


I guess I find this point you made much more believable now!

Of course. What I post here is based on facts.

Quote:


Amir, I'm sure you will be very busy at CES over the next few days (as will I), but I believe the points above are likely to be of concern to a great many HD DVD supporters, so it would clearly be worthwhile for you to respond here in a timely manner. I'm certainly eagerly awaiting your response.

- Talk

It is 11:30 and I could not come to the hotel fast enough to answer it, after seeing it on my phone earlier .

Of course, I am on a high from a fantastic HD DVD press conference. We announced my favorite which is Meridian building HD DVD players! First high-end company to commit to either format. Of course, we also had the likes of Onkyo, LiteOn, J/K, etc. So we got both the high-end and the low-end covered. Toshiba rocked the house with their announcement of A20 with 1080p support at just $599 MSRP.

On the content side, we announced 240 titles so far, with 40+ independent studios publishing content worldwide on HD DVD. We demonstrated fully functional networked interactivity between both gen 1 an gen 2 Toshiba HD DVD players, moving bookmarks around, downloading additional content, community features (sharing bookmarks with friends), etc. All running on real production shipping hardware. All because features such as PiP and networking are standard in every player. This should answer the question about what the networking port is for and when it will be put to use.

And oh yeah, we announced a joint reference design with Broadcom for a complete HD DVD package including HDi using their SoC design! So there, hopefully that answers B2b and Rob. Sorry guys. J/K and LiteOn machines will use this SoC solution. There are others but they prefer to not say.

There were other stuff I am sure but I am a bit too tired to remember .

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
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post #363 of 4841 Old 01-07-2007, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius View Post

HD-DVD insiders,

When will we hear more about Microsoft's partnership (?) with DirecTV? What does it encompass exactly?

It is a large scale collaboration agreement which includes among other things support of their service on Media Center PCs.

Amir
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post #364 of 4841 Old 01-07-2007, 11:44 PM
 
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Can a CE device get the HD-DVD logo if the machine does not support HDi?
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post #365 of 4841 Old 01-07-2007, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbh View Post

With the new HD DVD TL 50GB disc announced: Will the current players be able to play this disc with an firmware upgrade? And are they going to use the new disc for future movie releases?

The format is actually 51 gigabytes (17 gigabytes/layer). And it is just at technology proposal at this point. They would need to submit it to DVD Forum for approval. Once we are through that cycle, then one can determine whether it plays or does not (DVD Forum may modify their proposal before ratification).

So at this point, think of it as Honda winning a Formula 1 race with a new engine, and not ready yet to tell you if it fits in your regular car . But should make you feel good that HD DVD engineers are not sitting around but continuing to innovate.

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post #366 of 4841 Old 01-07-2007, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

It is a large scale collaboration agreement which includes among other things support of their service on Media Center PCs.


Cool, thanks for the feedback Amir. I don't expect it, but will the 360 have any support?

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post #367 of 4841 Old 01-07-2007, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zuber View Post

Can a CE device get the HD-DVD logo if the machine does not support HDi?

No.

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post #368 of 4841 Old 01-07-2007, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius View Post

Cool, thanks for the feedback Amir. I don't expect it, but will the 360 have any support?

Indirectly yes. You can watch DTV programming from the MCE using the 360.

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post #369 of 4841 Old 01-07-2007, 11:59 PM
 
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Thanks for the direct answer. Doesn't this LG press release pretty much settle the matter, then? It doesn't seem like it will get the logo.

Quote:


In addition to offering Full HD 1080p picture quality from high-definition discs, the player incorporates interactive functions based on BD-Java, which allows advanced menus and functions to be displayed over the video of Blu-ray discs. And, while the same level of advanced menu interactivity is not available while playing HD DVD discs, the powerful combination of Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD audio-video playback technologies is like no other on the market.

http://sev.prnewswire.com/consumer-electronics/20070107/NYSU02507012007-1.html
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post #370 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Indirectly yes. You can watch DTV programming from the MCE using the 360.



Veerrry cool.

Oh crap, now I have to upgrade my WinXP machine to Vista.

I bet hearing that breaks your heart doesn't it?

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post #371 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 12:03 AM
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What it doesn't say Rob is whether they plan to do a firmware update to add HDi functionality. I am not saying they will, but that is a possibility.

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post #372 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

What it doesn't say Rob is whether they plan to do a firmware update to add HDi functionality. I am not saying they will, but that is a possibility.

Within 90days of public release? When does this period start?
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post #373 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 12:09 AM
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Amir,

What is the motivation behind HD50 aside from "hey, look what we did!" Seeing that you have stated that no HD DVD studios have asked for more space, thus TL45 was never an issue. Have their been inquiries or interest from non HD DVD supporters in regards to needing extra space for whatever reason, in order for them to possible look into support HD DVD?

Also, when will this proposal be presented to the DVD Forum? The TL45 never made it to the meeting table. Will HD50?

Thanks and enjoy Vegas!!!
Robert.
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post #374 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

Within 90days of public release? When does this period start?

When the product starts shipping. BTW, I am not a lawyer and all of this is from memory so don't hold me too it too hard. OK?

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post #375 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

And oh yeah, we announced a joint reference design with Broadcom for a complete HD DVD package including HDi using their SoC design! So there, hopefully that answers B2b and Rob. Sorry guys. J/K and LiteOn machines will use this SoC solution. There are others but they prefer to not say.

LG perhaps? I believe the LG presentation slide showed that it will be using a Broadcom chip for it's new player.

But in my own way, I am King. Hail to the King, baby.

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post #376 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

Amir,

What is the motivation behind HD50 aside from "hey, look what we did!" Seeing that you have stated that no HD DVD studios have asked for more space, thus TL45 was never an issue. Have their been inquiries or interest from non HD DVD supporters in regards to needing extra space for whatever reason, in order for them to possible look into support HD DVD?

This is really a question for Toshiba to answer. We are not joint designers on this thing . So I can only offer you opinions and that is it. My first opinion is that it is silly to assume that once Toshiba engineers invented HD DVD, Toshiba fired them all . They are still there, and still innovating.

Second is what you say. If there is a content owner out there thinking they will die without 50 gigabytes, well, Toshiba has one better, literally.

Third, I can confirm again that none of the studios using HD DVD today are asking for TL, 45 or 51 gigabytes.

Quote:


Also, when will this proposal be presented to the DVD Forum? The TL45 never made it to the meeting table. Will HD50?

It is up to Toshiba. In their presentation, they said they expect standardization to be completed by Q4, 2007. So I guess this means they will submit it soon.

Quote:


Thanks and enjoy Vegas!!!
Robert.

Will do. I have to get some sleep as it is 12:19am! But here is one more thing to keep you all busy discussing this topic. TL-51 has higher bandwidth because it packs the bits closer and spins the drive at 1.5X I believe. So it goes exactly where BD-50 is today and maybe passes it a bit... Quite an amazing technological feat considering the fact that it does not resort to .1mm recording and all the grief that comes wiht that...

Good night!

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post #377 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

And oh yeah, we announced a joint reference design with Broadcom for a complete HD DVD package including HDi using their SoC design! So there, hopefully that answers B2b and Rob. Sorry guys. J/K and LiteOn machines will use this SoC solution. There are others but they prefer to not say.

There were other stuff I am sure but I am a bit too tired to remember .

Good to hear about the SoC... Maybe I missed it, but who is "J/K" ?

b2b

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post #378 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

But here is one more thing to keep you all busy discussing this topic. TL-51 has higher bandwidth because it packs the bits closer and spins the drive at 1.5X I believe.

Thanks. I hope it gets approved then. I would appreciate it if you could get confirmation on the 1.5X thing. Even if this were put in as another profile, I think that would be good long term.

--Darin

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post #379 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 01:05 AM
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Quote:


And oh yeah, we announced a joint reference design with Broadcom for a complete HD DVD package including HDi using their SoC design!

Great news.

Quote:


Thanks for the direct answer. Doesn't this LG press release pretty much settle the matter, then? It doesn't seem like it will get the logo.

\\

Come on guys. These are prototype/pre production models on display. Most CE's are guilty of poping logos on their devices before all features are operational for display at conventions. I'm sure Pioneer and Sony had BD logos on their players before they were BD compliant, and i'm sure the LG is no different.

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post #380 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Will do my best to answer them.

I certainly appreciate that you a)didn't duck the questions, and b)responded this evening, when I'm sure you have many other competing interests.
Quote:


Anyone can get a copy of the HD DVD spec and go build something out of it. The player does not explode if it doesn't support all the features . The "teeth" is in the logo license. If you want to put HD DVD on the player, you must comply with all the specifications including mandatory interactivity features.

But that also includes putting "HD DVD" on the box, in the manual, in the ads, etc. as well, no? I'd think at best they could say "plays audio/video from HD DVD discs", but couldn't put the words "HD DVD" and "player" together anywhere. And I'd think you certainly wouldn't want to refer to this as an HD DVD player since it apparently won't be capable of supporting any of the technology you've build around HDi...
Quote:


Per above, no open standards organization can keep people from seeing its specs, and implementing portions of it. That is quite a different matter from BDA making variations and permutations of the spec which people can implement, with full blessing of BDA including logo.

This is a bit of an overstatement, don't you think? Blu-ray has two well-defined profiles, plus a subset of the BD-Video profile for 1G players. While HD DVD may not have profiles, it does have optional features (seldom discussed), and should studios use any of them you'll have many consumers unable to make use of that content.
Quote:


Talking about logos, the best thing you could do to reduce confusion about your product is to have logos for BD-Live, etc. But something tells me you won't go there.

Perhaps you're in for a surprise...
Quote:


I think it is hugely positive for HD DVD. Just a week ago, you were claiming you had all of these BD CE companies who thought they were going to finish off HD DVD in a few months and had no intention of doing anything different. Yet, one of your major CE companies is saying HD DVD is here to stay and wants to build compatibility with that format.

Except they aren't. They're simply reading the physical format and playing back the A/V contained therein. Unless it's TrueHD audio, that is, in which case I guess you won't hear anything unless the studio includes a DD track as well. Oh, wait, there goes that advantage you mentioned previously where HD DVD studios could save space by only including a TrueHD track and being certain everyone can hear it!
Quote:


Most importantly, LG dared to cross the line. They announced HD DVD support. There will be others. And I am sure LG will also build fully compliant products, if this one is not it. The positive reception will certainly entice them to do so.

For your sake, you'd better hope it doesn't do well, because if it does you'll have a bunch of non-compliant players in the market which may force studios to dumb down their titles to reach that audience.
Quote:


Toshiba rocked the house with their announcement of A20 with 1080p support at just $599 MSRP.

Great, only $100 more than the cheapest Blu-ray player with 1080p support!
Quote:


We demonstrated fully functional networked interactivity between both gen 1 an gen 2 Toshiba HD DVD players, moving bookmarks around, downloading additional content, community features (sharing bookmarks with friends), etc.

I'm actually glad to hear this, because it will help push the studios on the Blu-ray side to similarly innovate. From my standpoint anything which pushes the envelope on interactivity is a good thing.
Quote:


And oh yeah, we announced a joint reference design with Broadcom for a complete HD DVD package including HDi using their SoC design!

Which SoC design? The super-powerful one they announced recently, or the older ones which are more likely to be found in current and near-term player designs?
Quote:


TL-51 has higher bandwidth because it packs the bits closer and spins the drive at 1.5X I believe. So it goes exactly where BD-50 is today and maybe passes it a bit... Quite an amazing technological feat considering the fact that it does not resort to .1mm recording and all the grief that comes wiht that...

Interesting statement, considering there may be all manner of grief which comes from packing the bits closer together. If not, why didn't they do that from the start?

Thanks again for responding head-on, and I hope you don't feel I'm being unnecessarily harsh in pointing out what I think are serious issues with the LG player for your format of choice. I'm sure you'll do the same should any Blu-ray news come out in the next few days which might have a similarly negative impact...

- Talk

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post #381 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooki View Post

Come on guys. These are prototype/pre production models on display. Most CE's are guilty of poping logos on their devices before all features are operational for display at conventions. I'm sure Pioneer and Sony had BD logos on their players before they were BD compliant, and i'm sure the LG is no different.

Except that LG seems to be confirming that this player will not have HDi support in it. If it were only the demo model which didn't, they'd clearly be highlighting that fact, since releasing a non-compliant player has a significant impact on the whole format. My guess is the SoC chipset in the LG simply can't run HDi well-enough to implement it (as has been suggested by other insiders). Why else would they possibly leave it out and run the risk of alienating a large swath of the market?

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post #382 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 01:26 AM
 
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I suppose I might as well ask since these Qs will come up soon enough.


1. What's the cost of these 50 GB discs projected to be?

2. Is Toshiba or MS going to subsidize the discs for the studios, if they adopt them?

3. What stage of development is it at? What kind of yields are expected or being obtained?

4. What kind of protective layer? Same as HD30?

thanks to whoever provides definitive answers.

cheers
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post #383 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

On the content side, we announced 240 titles so far.

amir, wouldn't you agree it is more accurate to say that the HD DVD PRG didn't announce 240 titles, but rather that it was announced that 240 titles* would be released?

* Actually 300 according to the press release.

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post #384 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 03:54 AM
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Is'nt this 50GB disk just a 5GB increase of the TWIN format, that is in the specs. of playable formats in the G2 players?

Will DVD-Forum go for this replicator technology?
This proprietary 2P technology is applicable to any kind of production of dual or multilayer optical media.
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post #385 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

I think you'll have to wait until your IPTV provider announces support for it. Who's your provider?

So with the IPTV for the 360 if all you have is Time Warner Cable in you rarea, with not even talks of AT&T o rsuch bringing IPTV, then I will not be able to get IPTV for th e360. I am very confused on this. So it appears this will only help people who live in places where they are served by FIOS or IPTV providers? Can some insider please xplain how this will work?
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post #386 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Whether Sony is the only company actually replicating BD50 discs today (I don't know), every expectation is that others will enter this market in time. Anyone who licenses the format and pays the appropriate IP has the right to manufacture the discs.

I am very surprised that you say you don't know if there is anyone besides Sony replicating BD50's or not currently but that doesn't directly answer my question anyway.

I understand a company will be allowed to create there own BD50 disks if they are capable of doing so but what are the issues of creating such a disc (Total HD) when it is being bundled with an HD DVD side? Would they need Sony/BDA approval to do such a thing?

Also similar question to the HD DVD camp, since the Blu-ray format goes against the standards approved by the DVD Forum for high definition does this violate any rules by bundling this type of disc with an HD DVD side and putting the HD DVD logo on it?
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post #387 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

No, Amir, as you undoubtedly understand, yet are trying to play this up for effect, this method of PiP would be unlikely to be suitable for a BD-25 disc.

Yes, I'm sure the audience will be very impressed with your grasp of the competition when you suggest this will be the standard method (or the only method) for producing PiP content on Blu-ray.

I'm surprised you would take a shot at a creative team which worked through existing player constraints to produce an innovative end-user experience, one which clearly few end-users realized was delivered using, as you suggest, such a ridiculous method.

If consumers love the movie, love the A/V quality, love the bonus content, and have no idea it didn't actually use secondary video (if they even have any clue as to what secondary video is), where is a single negative impact to the creative team's choice of authoring approach?

Talk, I will direct my question to you since it is similar to your above comment but if anyone else would like to also add there input on it, please do so.

The above quotes (at least to my understanding of it) implies that this way of performing the PIP type features are fine and there are no negative results to us as a consumer.

Out of the announced titles scheduled for release soon I see 13 titles that are announced for being released on BD50 disc's. Only 3 out of all 13 of these BD50 titles reach being 2 hours in length.

I don't understand where so many movies this short in length (under 2 hours) are being put onto BD50g discs. Is it because of this extra functionality and how it is being inputted that requires this much space?

Are BD50 discs going to be required for all these 90 minute movies that have any PIP type features?

With the promise of more BD50 releases I expected to see more longer running movies being announced, although I do see an increase of BD50's announced I don't see any even reaching 2.5 hrs on a BD50 scheduled.

Instead I see things like Crank (just as one example but there are many others similar) that is only 87 minutes long scheduled for release on a BD50g disc.

I would appreciate anyone that can shed some light on this matter and whether or not this is the average length of a movie that has extras that we can expect. I did expect to see more 2.5 - 3 hour movies plus extras all fitting on BD50s.
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post #388 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 05:41 AM
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So has the equation changed regarding "Deep Color" and "xvYCC", with the improved HD-DVD disc capacity, and the arrival of HDMI 1.3? Are we going to see movies encoded with "Deep Color" and "xvYCC" color space at some point down the road? Say by 2009 maybe? Disc capacity certainly won't be an issue will it?

LED and Laser backlighting is confirmed to be taking off now, so home user displays are going to be ready for it.

Or is this still not going to happen for a long time? I asked about this in the old thread and the impression I got was the outlook was bleak.
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post #389 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Earz View Post

Why would your PS3 require navigating the game menu?
Everyone elses...you insert the BD...BD rom shows already lit up on the screen...you hit enter or play....and the movie plays automatically....or goes to the BD movies menu.
There is no navigating the game menu with the controller or remote.

Earz, this isn't the place for this discussion and my comments were in response to an insider's post, but just to answer you:

if my ps3 is started without a disc in it (either game or movie), the menu seems to default to the "game" menu item...after i load a movie in the player, it doesn't switch automatically to the "video" menu but instead just sits there at the game menu. pressing play on the remote does not begin playback of the movie. i HAVE TO NAVIGATE THE PS3 MENU SYSTEM to get over to the "video" menu and THEN have to navigate to the BD-ROM (i have some downloaded videos that seem to populate the video menu...then i can hit play or select enter to get movie playback to begin.

if the ps3 is started from a power off state with a movie already in the player, THEN it will start playback easily...

if i'm the ONLY person experiencing that type of behavior that is very strange; i do recall reading a review that described this exact behavior as well (i think it was sound & vision)...i'm at the latest firmware rev.
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post #390 of 4841 Old 01-08-2007, 06:47 AM
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If this has been asked/answered already my appologies.

Lots of conversation going on at HTF about this and since I haven't heard any insider tips thus far I'm compelled to ask:

Why has Warner Brothers dropped Dolby True HD tracks from several BD titles that are provided on the (otherwise identical) HD DVD editions? Superman Returns is a prime example. This seems to be a key factor in why owners of both formats are choosing to buy the HD DVD edition over the Blu-ray in these cases... to get the Dolby True HD.

Arguments about lack of full decoding in first-gen BD players is moot given that all BD players are compatible with Dolby True HD and can extract the core DD stream pending future software updates to extract the full lossless LPCM (and the PS3 can extract full LPCM from Dolby True HD right now).

Please advise. Is Warner choosing to do this to favor HD DVD and its sales or are there other technical obstacles behind the disappointing omission of Lossless audio tracks on their BD discs?

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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