Industry Insiders Q&A MASTER THREAD [separate thread for Xbox/Add On & PS3] - Page 23 - AVS Forum
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post #661 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 07:20 PM
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Amir-

Thanks for your answer a couple of days ago regarding the HD-DVD featre with the oh-so-catchy name of S-EVOB.

Portions of a HD DVD spec have been quoting referring to an optional on-disc video stream as well. Would you mind shedding some light on that?

Perhaps the firewarks will be dying down a bit, and I applaud efforts in that regard. I hope, this being the case, you'll be willing to address the above.

Thanks.

-Steve
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post #662 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

David, was it you that asked about why Warner doesn't use TrueHD on their BD discs? If so, in absence of cjplay here, I will take a shot at it. I believe it is for two reasons:

1. Warner will only target the features that are available in all the players. So if you want TrueHD, then you must convince BD companies to put that feature in their players. We hear this theme constantly from the studios. If the feature is not standard in the player, they are not liable to waste resources chasing it (yes, there are exceptions with DTS lossless in case of Fox and Studio canal but there, the core stream is playable). You have the proof in front of you in the form of interactivity and audio.

2. My understanding from talking to Dolby is that BD does NOT allow TrueHD 5.1 It only allows TrueHD for 7.1. If you want 5.1, you have to still encode in 7.1 with two dummy channels. If so, then you can't just use the 5.1 encode from HD DVD.

It is not a problem to encode 5.1 Dolby lossless. There is no requirement to have "dummy channels".

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post #663 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

It is not a problem to encode 5.1 Dolby lossless. There is no requirement to have "dummy channels".

Roger Dressler has commented on the issue also. I will quote it here (in his absence)
Quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv
TrueHD is not implemented the same way on Blu-ray that it is on HD-DVD, which is why Warner has not been able to reuse its TrueHD encodings on BD releases.

Quote: Roger Dressler
TrueHD is the same for both disc formats, and the same file can technically be used on both. There may be other reasons why this is not being done.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...73#post9221973

Other discussions of the issue are in the same thread.

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post #664 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

Do any of the insiders have a comment on Digital Playground's comment that there is censorship of porn for manufacturing on the Blu-ray side?

Somehow this strikes me as false, but I would like to hear more truth in the matter. I do note this article which claims the real issue is cost.

Sony replication will not handle pornographic product and I think many of other major replicators have similar policies. Nothing more than that.

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post #665 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by WaldorfSalad View Post

Hi, will this firmware update also fix problems with the BDP-S1 playing other titles like Speed Behind Enemy Lines and LXG as noted in the FAQ in the BD section of Sony web site?

We just received a new version of firmware for testing so I cannot say to what extent the performance on these titles will improve. I'll find out shortly and let you know.

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post #666 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac Hunt View Post

Paidgeek, when is Lawrence of Arabia going to be released on BD?

It must've been at least 3 days since anyone last asked.

It is still not in production. Please be patient...

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post #667 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaesare View Post

Portions of a HD DVD spec have been quoting referring to an optional on-disc video stream as well. Would you mind shedding some light on that?

Bkilian spilled the beans already above.

Quote:


Perhaps the firewarks will be dying down a bit, and I applaud efforts in that regard. I hope, this being the case, you'll be willing to address the above.

Thanks.

Already done per above.

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post #668 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenZ View Post

I really appreciate the many instances in this thread where insiders have answered our questions and provided greater clarity.

That said, I'm getting tired of seeing this thread cluttered by fanboys' gotcha questions:

BINGO.

Amir - any ETA on Universal HD-DVD new title announcements?

DVD's are about movies & people watch them in living rooms, how many people actually use their computer drives to sit and watch movies- Bluray's Andy Parsons
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post #669 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 08:08 PM
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Just a quick update on my previous observations regarding displays at CES. There is now a new king in front projectors, the JVC RS-1 (and its brother, HD-1). I will be retiring my Sony Ruby as soon as this poppy ships in Feb. More reflections here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9435822. At $6K list, anyone who seriously wants to enjoy HD DVD/BD, needs to check this PJ out. As an FYI, JVC is majority owned by MEI/Panasonic so I am not saying this to support brother HD DVD company (although there appears to be strong rumors of MEI divesting from JVC).

I also had the opportunity to see the new Pioneer Plasma. They definitely seem to have made a breakthrough on black levels here. So much so that you can not tell the display is on even in a dark room! Alas, the unit shown was 768p, not 1080p. And I have my concerns about reflections in family room type applications (my scenario). But nice innovation on behalf of Pioneer.

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post #670 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

OK, now it is "any exec" at "any studio"? And some "increased margin" as opposed to curing the hack?

But no, I do not beleive the companies who developed the security architecture for BD (i.e. those are who members of both AACS and BDA) believe that BD+ provides any additional level of protection against the type of attack reported.


You are confusing what Fox wants out of BD+, and what this hack is all about.

Regardless, if your entire point is that you heard something from someone saying BD+ is good, and you have no way of proving the same yourself nor do you have access to specifications which allow you to have an informed opinion, then we can leave the matter as is and let folks judge the value of such statement.

Amir,

We are one of the companies you are referring to and we do believe that BD+ provides additional protection. I suspect that one or two other studios feel this way as well. If you are arguing semantics over BD+ specifically providing protecting against the alleged AACS attack, then let's be clear. BD+ does not fix a broken encyrption system, it gives us additional ways to inconvenience hackers should that system be broken.

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post #671 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

Amir,

We are one of the companies you are referring to and we do believe that BD+ provides additional protection. I suspect that one or two other studios feel this way as well. If you are arguing semantics over BD+ specifically providing protecting against the alleged AACS attack, then let's be clear. BD+ does not fix a broken encyrption system, it gives us additional ways to inconvenience hackers should that system be broken.

Let's hope only people who are inconvenienced with these extra measures of copy protection are hackers and not users .

If you believe "inconveniencing" a hacker is going to mean "additional protection" against breaches, then all I can say is "best of luck to you." Any hacker who can break a well designed encryption system like AACS, will blow through BD+'s "inconvenience" layer during an afternoon break. And as I noted in the other threat, if someone hacks BD+, it can compromise the system without ever breaking AACS.

I don't know if you work in the content security area but if you are, your position here is surprising to me because Sony participated in evaluation and rejection of CRI proposal which BD+ is based on in both AACS and DVD Forum.

Putting the above aside, do you mind providing some data as you how you think BD+ can inconvenience the hacker and in what way it provides additional protection?

Also, can you comment on rumors that BD+ essential intellectual property is owned by Sony/MEI? And that your two companies control how that system will act should it be breached?

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post #672 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinch View Post

BINGO.

Amir - any ETA on Universal HD-DVD new title announcements?

Hey guys, give us a chance to cool off from CES before making new announcements .

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post #673 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

Sony replication will not handle pornographic product and I think many of other major replicators have similar policies. Nothing more than that.

Thanks for the quick answer.
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post #674 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Let's hope only people who are inconvenienced with these extra measures of copy protection are hackers and not users .

If you believe "inconveniencing" a hacker is going to mean "additional protection" against breaches, then all I can say is "best of luck to you." Any hacker who can break a well designed encryption system like AACS, will blow through BD+'s "inconvenience" layer during an afternoon break. And as I noted in the other threat, if someone hacks BD+, it can compromise the system without ever breaking AACS.

I don't know if you work in the content security area but if you are, your position here is surprising to me because Sony participated in evaluation and rejection of CRI proposal which BD+ is based on in both AACS and DVD Forum.

Putting the above aside, do you mind providing some data as you how you think BD+ can inconvenience the hacker and in what way it provides additional protection?

Also, can you comment on rumors that BD+ essential intellectual property is owned by Sony/MEI? And that your two companies control how that system will act should it be breached?

I'm not sure who from Sony would have rejected BD+ in the DVD Forum. I didn't know that BD+ had ever been presented there, but that is because I don't follow the activities of that group anymore. If a representative of Sony Corp. did reject a proposal, it is quite possible it was for reasons other than the technical merits of BD+.

We have already had a limited discussion about how BD+ might be used weeks ago, I don't care to rehash it.

I'll have to do some research on your last question, but it runs counter to the basic tenants of BD licensing. The IP of participating companies can't be used to "control" anything in the way you describe.

If MS wants to reconsider becoming a BD founder I'm sure we would all appreciate their skills to make BD+ as effective as possible.

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post #675 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

If MS wants to reconsider becoming a BD founder I'm sure we would all appreciate their skills to make BD+ as effective as possible.

Good come back .

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post #676 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:23 PM
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Amirm or any HD DVD insider,

If possible can you describe the process of a company obtaining player keys for HD DVD? If this is not possible because of NDA a comment to that effect would also be appreciated.

Also are you aware of the feature in the Xbox 360 to output WMA Pro? If possible could you comment on the possibility of this becoming a method to output HD DVD audio at a higher fidelity than Dolby Digital and DTS? Again, if this is not possible because of NDA a comment to that effect would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
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post #677 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Outlaw Z View Post

Amirm or any HD DVD insider,

If possible can you describe the process of a company obtaining player keys for HD DVD? If this is not possible because of NDA a comment to that effect would also be appreciated.

I am sorry but I don't quite understand the question. Do you mean keys for decrypting content? If so, they apply to AACS-LA which licenses them the copy protection technology. The AACS web site may have more info on this.

Quote:
Also are you aware of the feature in the Xbox 360 to output WMA Pro? If possible could you comment on the possibility of this becoming a method to output HD DVD audio at a higher fidelity than Dolby Digital and DTS? Again, if this is not possible because of NDA a comment to that effect would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

WMA Pro on 360 is for decode, not encode. What is needed here is to re-encode the original stream into WMA Pro.

How much interest is there in WMA Pro encode? I know all Pioneer receivers support it today but not sure if that is enough to have critical demand. We would be pleased to add it if there is sufficient demand.

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post #678 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Good come back .

Any chance Microsoft could reconsider?


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post #679 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post

Any chance Microsoft could reconsider?

Sure. About the same time that Sony/MEI do.

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post #680 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:31 PM
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Anybody care to comment on the Managed Copy questions I posted 3 pages back (I don't think I missed the response)?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9430316

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #681 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

How much interest is there in WMA Pro encode? I know all Pioneer receivers support it today but not sure if that is enough to have critical demand. We would be pleased to add it if there is sufficient demand.

I believe Denon is going to offer WMA decoding if I heard correctly in that Audioholics interview from CES.

-pd
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post #682 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

It is still not in production. Please be patient...

paidgeek,

There were rumors of Spider-man I & II being announcements - are these still coming this spring or summer?

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post #683 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Managed Copy again.

The recent "release" by Sony that they are "probably" going to allow copying sometime this year has raised some questions again.

So Amir, Paidgeek:

Does AACS specify Managed Copy as Mandatory? ie does AACS specify MC or MMC?

MMC but with some caveats.

Quote:
If MMC, does that mean every disc must support MC, or every player must support MC?

This is the million dollar question that among other things, has caused so much delay. We need to strike a balance between a strong requirement for MMC, while at the same time have an "out" for legitimate cases where the studio may not have such rights.

Quote:
If MMC, are there any restrictions on what qualifies as the MMC, ie does it have to be full quality, or does a PSP version count?

You get to choose the level of quality when you make the copy.

Quote:
Does Mandatory Managed Copy mean (provided a MC enabled player) I can make an MC of any disc?

Isn't this a repeat of the above question?

Quote:
If MC is Mandatory per AACS, does that mean I can make an MC of any HD DVD?

Subject to carve out in the final agreement, yes.

Quote:
If MC is Mandatory per AACS, does that mean I can make an MC of any BD?

My assumption is yes. Technically the process will be more complicated for BD as one needs the keys to both BD+ and AACS but from licensing point of view, they must be the same as AACS does not distinguish between BD and HD DVD.

Quote:
What is the holdup on MC?

I mentioned one of the key reasons above. There are other arguments which are hard to settle which I can not disclose.

Quote:
When will we see it?

I am hoping the license gets finished in Q1. After that, it is up to technology companies to build the software.

Quote:
Are the studios fighting it?

Not in the classic sense of last year, when some didn't want to see MMC at all. Now it is just a matter of grinding out the details.

Quote:
Has MC been deep-sixed?

Not at all. I would gain a full time security expert if it had been the case as the poor guy spends everyday of his life on this .

Quote:
Amir: Windows Home Server seems to be making a splash, there's talk of an AMD Live! server using WHS, will that support storage of MCs?

I can't pre-announce any features of our products.

Quote:
Can either of you, or anybody give further details about MC? The silence on this front has been deafening. It's a must have feature for me to purchase discs on either format.

Sorry, the silence was not intentional. I just missed your questions .

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post #684 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:49 PM
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paidgeek,

Since there isn't a Fox representative here, I'll ask you this one and maybe you can pass it on. Any chance of "Borat" coming to BD day-and-date with the DVD? I'm sure there are many of us who would like to get that one. I can start a poll and find out how many are interested here if that might help. But then, are polls for titles likely to have any impact on what titles get done?

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post #685 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

How much interest is there in WMA Pro encode? I know all Pioneer receivers support it today but not sure if that is enough to have critical demand. We would be pleased to add it if there is sufficient demand.

I'm interested. I have 2 Pioneer receivers that decode WMA Pro and I notice Pioneer continues to support it in new receivers. I have no intention of upgrading to a receiver with HDMI. I will be satisfied with an external HDMI switch. My basic interest is in finding the best audio output for my Xbox 360 that is compatible with my Pioneer Elite receiver. I have not seen an answer to my previous questions of whether the sound quality would be superior if the various new HD sountracks were converted to DD, DTS or WMA Pro.
My only other option is 7.1 analog if that evers becomes a reality for the 360.

John
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post #686 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by water1 View Post

I'm interested. I have 2 Pioneer receivers that decode WMA Pro and I notice Pioneer continues to support it in new receivers. I have no intention of upgrading to a receiver with HDMI. I will be satisfied with an external HDMI switch. My basic interest is in finding the best audio output for my Xbox 360 that is compatible with my Pioneer Elite receiver.

Thanks for the feedback. Indeed at our meeting with Pioneer this CES, it seems that they are firmly committed to supporting WMA Pro across their entire line.

Quote:
I have not seen an answer to my previous questions of whether the sound quality would be superior if the various new HD sountracks were converted to DD, DTS or WMA Pro.
My only other option is 7.1 analog if that evers becomes a reality for the 360.

Yes, it does make a difference. DD has the lowest data rate of the three so quality suffers the most at 640kbps (OK, I am oversimplifying a lot but bear with me ) as opposed to 1.5 mbit/sec for DTS. WMA Pro is quite a bit more efficient than both and is able to provide great quality at even 750kbps.

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post #687 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Thanks for the feedback. Indeed at our meeting with Pioneer this CES, it seems that they are firmly committed to supporting WMA Pro across their entire line.

Then I think MS should support Pioneer and me by implementing it on the 360.
And the 360 does have it as an option in the setup menu although it apparently doesn't work.


Quote:
Yes, it does make a difference. DD has the lowest data rate of the three so quality suffers the most at 640kbps (OK, I am oversimplifying a lot but bear with me ) as opposed to 1.5 mbit/sec for DTS. WMA Pro is quite a bit more efficient than both and is able to provide great quality at even 750kbps.

That's the answer I thought I remembered from the old threads in the HTPC section and why I contiue to hope it becomes available on the 360. I use the WMA Pro option whenever possible on material played from my HTPC and feel it offers the best sound quallity.

John
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post #688 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

paidgeek,

There were rumors of Spider-man I & II being announcements - are these still coming this spring or summer?

Since SM3 is coming this year, it is not out of the question...

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post #689 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 10:40 PM
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Hi paidgeek! Do you think any possibility of delays for Spiderman 1 & 2 are due to relatively normal marketing issues or is perhaps possibly overdue caution due to the reaction to The Fifth Element, for example?

I, for one, have put off a DVD purchase of Spidey 2 as I have with most DVD's in the last 6-12 months since I knew I would eventually be going hi def...

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post #690 of 4841 Old 01-11-2007, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

Amir, Ben, Paidgeek, Talk and others:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...33#post9435733

I'm hoping to have your endorsement in the above thread asking Warner for CJ's return to the community.

Amir, hopefully you can then pass it onto Warner and we can get him back here.

Thanks for reminding me. I've now done so. His posts were a big reason I've enjoyed this thread - I like reading his stuff more than my own .

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