Industry Insiders Q&A MASTER THREAD [separate thread for Xbox/Add On & PS3] - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efralope View Post

Howdy HD DVD insiders:

I was wondering if any of you got a sense as to how committed the studios were with regards to HD DVD/DVD combo discs.

I can't give you concrete data but Universal did say they like to use combo discs.

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Paramount is still a no-show and Warner seems to have slowed somewhat. I would venture that TotalHD discs are going to be a priority for Warner over HD DVD/DVD combo discs, but any word on how much studios will continue to use them?

I would say that it is probably going to take a while until THD discs come out. Until then, I expect HD DVD studios to use combo discs on new titles as opposed to library.

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post #722 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:35 AM
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Amir,
Is there any plan in place to lower the price of combo discs so that they are more in line with typical HD DVD's? In addition, has any studio thought about using a combo disc only (meaning not having separate HD DVD and DVD versions selling in stores)? Is that feasible or do you think that would be a bad idea?

As always thanks for the information.
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post #723 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:37 AM
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Amir - regarding COMBO discs, you previously stated like the rest of us the prices were TOO high. Have you had any further conversations about that or is this just a case of studios taking liberties with early adopters knowing they'll pay the extra $$$? thanks!

edit - i see a similar Q was just posted LOL.

DVD's are about movies & people watch them in living rooms, how many people actually use their computer drives to sit and watch movies- Bluray's Andy Parsons
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post #724 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:44 AM
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Yes, I keep giving the feedback to studios about combo pricing. Hopefully they listen .

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post #725 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:45 AM
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To HD DVD/Blu-ray insiders, I asked a while ago about these but didn't see any response. Can someone take a stab?

Quote:
Originally Posted by efralope View Post

Question to HD DVD insiders:

Is there a target date for Twin Format (hybrid discs with both HD DVD and DVD on one side) disc releases in the US, or is Combo going to be the only option major studios use?


Question to Blu-ray insiders:

Is there a time-frame for when hybrid DVD/Blu-ray discs will be released? Andy Parsons has mentioned that they would be out to combat the COMBO discs from the HD DVD group and I believe Disney was touting them as a key feature so kids could play them in their bedroom, but there hasn't been much news lately...


Thanks

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post #726 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:48 AM
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I don't have any information on single sided combo disc adoption in HD DVD. I expect to see some but I just have nothing concrete to report.

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post #727 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Impending doom? Where do people get this?

I think the situation is this: You as an insider have more information than every normal home theater freak posting on these forums. It's natural that your view is different. You seem to have taken a lot of positive things from CES. But I think you're not seeing things from the perspective of an end user.

All we end users have is some press releases for HD DVD and some for Blu-Ray. It is great that HD DVD got new CE support and it's really a key point for HD DVD. But if you try to see the situation from the perspective of those forum people who own a HD DVD player, things are different: These people already HAVE a player, they don't need a new one! So added CE support doesn't help them at all. What HD DVD owners want/need is new content. The "impending doom" is a feeling that I see spread in many threads. I think it's caused by 3 things:

(1) Blu-Ray software sales have increased very much, they might even be ahead of HD DVD software sales now. This creates the fear that HD DVD is losing and that BD studios now think: "Why going neutral, Blu-Ray is just overtaking HD DVD right now!"

(2) There were rumours that Lionsgate and/or Disney would go neutral at CES. This didn't happen. As a result there's some frustration and the fear that the trend is going away from HD DVD.

(3) If you look at the announced titles at highdefdigest, theres LOTS and LOTS more content announced for Blu-Ray. So people are wondering whether HD DVD content is slowing down. It seems so, at least if you look at the announcements, only. Also there haven't been many new new high profile titles available for (pre)order for HD DVD recently.

Generally I see many people adding a Blu-Ray player to their setup now, because they don't want to miss on the Blu-Ray movies. Some people even replace their HD DVD library with Blu-Ray because they think that HD DVD is losing the war - based on the 3 things noted above.

You say that Universal has been vocal on CES about supporting HD DVD. But this is not what we end users see. The only thing we see is content announcements. And there Blu-Ray has greatly outdone HD DVD at CES.

Anyway, now here is my question: Wouldn't it make sense for Universal, Weinstein etc to announce titles a bit more ahead in time to counter all the Blu-Ray software announcements? Just to take away some fear from HD DVD owners?
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post #728 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:57 AM
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Good post Madshi and thanks for the feedback . Just two points then:

1. Getting more CE support is key to getting more studio support. They need to see that more companies are adopting HD DVD and positive trend there.

2. I have given that feedback to Universal.

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post #729 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

[deleted]


Is the Hitachi proposal for ROM movie distribution? I have only seen >50 gigabyte proposals for recordable, not ROM. But perhaps I missed it. If you give me a link, I will read and comment.

Its a Japanese article, so I can only go off of another persons translation:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=785650

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article...070110/126242/
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post #730 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I don't think we will have to wait for new silicon. But we do have to wait for someone to build the complete system including the server software, networking and playback. So MMC won't happen on the first day AACS grants a license but not as bad as waiting for another generation of silicon either.

On a related question, is the only thing holding up MMC at the moment, the licensing and player/server software?

Ie, once AACS "grants a license" and the hardware/software appears to support MC, will it be retroactive to current discs or will we have to repurchase (or wait to purchase) MMC "enabled" discs?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #731 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 10:12 AM
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Talk, I don't know if you have the answers to these questions but I figure I'll give it a shot-

When playing the extras on The Descent, I noticed that I can't rewind or fast forward. I also can't exit to the main menu or bring up the pop-up menu during playback of the extra features. Do you know why this is? Does it have anything to do with BD-J? FYI, I am using the PS3 for BD playback.

BTW, thank you for your presence here on the forum. It is much appreciated.
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post #732 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

will we have to repurchase (or wait to purchase) MMC "enabled" discs?

I have the same question to insiders. My understanding is that the disc already has the BCA and ID required by MMC. Also, the menu could also be updated later to reflect the MMC/MC option.

HDPLEX
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post #733 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 10:40 AM
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A question for both formats. To me at least, the rate of movies coming out seems slow. What is holding things up?

1) The studios taking time to author titles, extra features, etc.

2) A backlog of titles at the replication plants

3) Studios just waiting for a greater installed base before releasing more titles
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post #734 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post


Sorry, I really don't understand this angst about Universal. Universal could not shout any louder in support of HD DVD at CES. They are the chairman of the US HD DVD group and gave the keynote address at CES. They have committed strongly to releasing their titles for this year, including day and date for new movies yet to even come to theaters. More importantly, you did not hear a peep from them going to BD route, despite the confidence of BD group that they are doing well. Another CES came and went without them going near BDA.

Universal is also committed to a lot of innovations in the area of interactivity with HDi as we demonstrated at CES. Given the really bad shape of same technology in BDA products, their preference for HD DVD could not be more clear and obvious.

Net, net, you should see Universal more committed to HD DVD, than any BD studio is to BDA. They have shown this in the past, and will continue to do so in the future with stellar products, using all the advanced features of HD DVD.

Angst about Universal? How about announcing some actual titles? You are so focused on hardware, that you forget the whole point-we want to watch movies. Where are the new titles? I've bought maybe one HD DVD in the last month or so. No new discs for Christmas-yeah, that felt real good. I may buy 1 more in the next few months. If Universal is that committed to HD DVD, why don't they put out more movies?
Where is the doom and gloom coming from? Possibly from the fact that I'm using my A1 as a DVD player, not an HD DVD player.
Sorry if my tone seems negative.
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post #735 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

And of course, everything in between from Toshiba including 1080p/24fps support.

Toshiba players don't include 1080p24 support right now, so when should people expect it for the XA2?

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post #736 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

On a related question, is the only thing holding up MMC at the moment, the licensing and player/server software?

Licensing currently. But once that is out of the way, then product development cycle .

Quote:


Ie, once AACS "grants a license" and the hardware/software appears to support MC, will it be retroactive to current discs or will we have to repurchase (or wait to purchase) MMC "enabled" discs?

There is no obligation under the interim license for content owners to have marked their content for MMC. However, I am pleased to see that studios like Warner have already marked their content appropriately (someone dug up the URLs on their discs for managed copy) even though they don't have to.

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post #737 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

Sony replication will not handle pornographic product and I think many of other major replicators have similar policies. Nothing more than that.

paidgeek, is the limit for what Sony will handle 'pornography', or is it broader, extending to anything that contains explicit sexual content? Don May Jr's post at Mobius last April relating that Sony refused to handle Thriller and The Image as Blu-ray, for instance, would seem to indicate that the ban is a good deal broader than just pornography? And for that matter why does Sony handle Japanese pornography on Blu-ray? Is this just a Sony US policy?

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post #738 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J View Post

Angst about Universal? How about announcing some actual titles? You are so focused on hardware, that you forget the whole point-we want to watch movies.

I appreciate the point. But CES is Consume Electronics Show. That is the place one traditionally announces hardware support. This is one of the reasons you see so many announcements there about hardware.

But still, we announced 600 titles by year end. Matrix and LOTR series are coming to HD DVD. Star Trek series is coming to HD DVD. Harry Potter series (all the episodes) are coming to HD DVD. That should send the approrpriate message regarding strong title support to back the hardware.

Quote:


Where are the new titles? I've bought maybe one HD DVD in the last month or so. No new discs for Christmas-yeah, that felt real good. I may buy 1 more in the next few months. If Universal is that committed to HD DVD, why don't they put out more movies?

The way the business worked was that a lot of titles were generated for Q4. Now people are making plans for the next cycle.

Quote:


Where is the doom and gloom coming from? Possibly from the fact that I'm using my A1 as a DVD player, not an HD DVD player.
Sorry if my tone seems negative.
J

No, I appreciate the feedback and it is something we have shared with the studios. Just realize that around Christmas, folks go on vacation and such. So we are just getting into next wave of title generation.

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post #739 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

But still, we announced 600 titles by year end. Matrix and LOTR series are coming to HD DVD. Star Trek series is coming to HD DVD. Harry Potter series (all the episodes) are coming to HD DVD. That should send the approrpriate message regarding strong title support to back the hardware.

I have heard the 300 number a few places but not the 600 yet. How many of these would be exclusive to HD-DVD and unavailable on Blu-ray?

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post #740 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:25 AM
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But still, we announced 600 titles by year end. Matrix and LOTR series are coming to HD DVD. Star Trek series is coming to HD DVD. Harry Potter series (all the episodes) are coming to HD DVD.

How many HD DVD exclusives will there be?

Quote:


The way the business worked was that a lot of titles were generated for Q4. Now people are making plans for the next cycle.

So we have to wait until Q4 to see the bulk of the titles?

Where are the Universal movies?
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post #741 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

I have heard the 300 number a few places but not the 600 yet. How many of these would be exclusive to HD-DVD and unavailable on Blu-ray?

The CES announcement I saw were 300 US titles for a total of 600 worldwide in 2007. I saw only 11 being US exclusive, but I'm not sure where that number came from, doesn't fit properly with what Amir said regarding Universal.
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post #742 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

B-frames can be more efficient to encode for content with little or very simple motion (like scrolling credits).

Since no frame refers to a B-frame, they can also be useful to pad out a second of blank frames, so that the next P-frame can refer to the previous I or P frame which is the proper reference frame.

Thanks. You example makes it easier to understand how this helps.

What would be the reason to restrict the number of B-frames? Trick play? Buffer size? I thought both formats were not very different in these things, but apparently they are.

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post #743 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

And then we had LG breaking the ice by going from BD exclusive to not only supporting HD DVD, but saying great things about how well HD DVD works at CES. This is going to have strong impact on the attitude of BD-exclusive companies.

Out of curiosity, are the rumors about MS and/or DVD forum suing LG or attempting to prevent their dual player from going to production true? That is because of crippled HD DVD support.

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That was it. No new lower cost players. No follow on products. No BD-Live products. No demonstration of advancements in their format. Nothing.

As far s I am concerned second gen Samsung @ 799 does qualify as new product and lower cost product as well, no?
Format advancements, true I didn't see any advancements to BD format itself, but one of the main complaints from HD DVD camp always was that BD was overkill and no one really needed neither 50gb storage nor 50mbps transfer rates. So, what should BDA be improving?

And what were improvements on HD DVD format besides TL disc announcement? If we compare to BD that particular improvement, then what we have is 1 gb more storage compared to DL BD, at the cost of the extra layer and potentially not backwards compatible?

I was planing on XA2 this month and now I'm stuck, because most likely if TL HD DVD gets approved this fall my player won't play it, or am I wrong on that assumption?

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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

In contrast, HD DVD showed incredible progress. We have new CE partners from likes of Chinese/Taiwanese (who will make the low cost products you ask about) and Onkyo, to companies with stellar reputation like Meridian.

Cheap players are of course welcome. Especially if they have quality too As for the Meridian, didn't they announce that they have no plans for making HD DVD player?

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post #744 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 12:22 PM
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Roger Dressler has commented on the issue also. I will quote it here (in his absence)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...73#post9221973

Other discussions of the issue are in the same thread.

b2b

Does the BD format's implementation of Dolby Lossless require that there be a Dolby Digital (AC-3) substream AND a MLP substream; i.e., essentially two audio tracks...there is no "core" element but instead a separate DD (AC-3) encode that a non-MLP player would use?

I understand that on both formats (BD and HD DVD), DD+ contains a "core" or independent stream AND an extension or dependent stream so that even legacy players that can't decode the full DD+ will at least decode the core or independent stream.

So in Warner's case, to put DD-THD on BD they would have needed to put on the disc DD+, DD AND MLP...they couldn't use the "core" from the DD+ for the DD-THD?

Is this "a" reason it was left off of the BD version...they would have had to put another DD track on? And in this case, it would seem that they should already have the DD encode from the DD+ pieces...the bitrate of the DD stream wouldn't seem like much of a penalty either unless the "core" is at the full 1.5 rate?
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post #745 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kdragon View Post

\\What would be the reason to restrict the number of B-frames? Trick play? Buffer size? I thought both formats were not very different in these things, but apparently not.

I honestly don't know. B-frames are more useful in our VC-1 implementation that someone used to MPEG-2 for DVD might have expected.

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post #746 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

I honestly don't know. B-frames are more useful in our VC-1 implementation that someone used to MPEG-2 for DVD might have expected.

Thanks. Amir's comment about BDA not contacting MS regarding this makes sense now.

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post #747 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 12:48 PM
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Paidgeek,

Could you please provide your expert comments in this thread?: Something MPEG2 has that VC1 does not

This is about blocking artifacts in MPEG2 on BD movies (all of them, apparently).

Amir and Ben have already contributed [thanks Amir/Ben]. If we had CJPlay here, that would have made it A, B, C!

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post #748 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Zvi7799 View Post

Out of curiosity, are the rumors about MS and/or DVD forum suing LG or attempting to prevent their dual player from going to production true? That is because of crippled HD DVD support.

No, forum members are not going to sue LG. But DVD Forum owns the HD DVD logo and should someone use it without compliance, it would be that org (well, the logo licensing agency) that would go after them. As far as I know however, LG is not going to use the logo so I don't think any of this matters.

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As far s I am concerned second gen Samsung @ 799 does qualify as new product and lower cost product as well, no?

Yes, that one does although I did not see any availability info. Did I miss that?

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Format advancements, true I didn't see any advancements to BD format itself, but one of the main complaints from HD DVD camp always was that BD was overkill and no one really needed neither 50gb storage nor 50mbps transfer rates. So, what should BDA be improving?

We showed how shipping machines can download additional content for shipping titles where the HDi menu dynamically gets updated. We showed that you could share bookmarks for your favorite movies with your friends through network services. We announced titles such as Freedom series by Bandai which will use these features. Yet no such demonstrations where shown by BD companies. Indeed, there were no BD-Live announcements and without it and broad networking support in their players, they can't go there. These are format advancements that I was talking about.

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And what were improvements on HD DVD format besides TL disc announcement?

Please see above.

Quote:


If we compare to BD that particular improvement, then what we have is 1 gb more storage compared to DL BD, at the cost of the extra layer and potentially not backwards compatible?

I never mentioned TL-51 in my post. And have been very frank about it not being an advantage one way or the other right now. HD DVD-30 has plenty of capacity for movies and no one is waiting for TL-51.

Quote:


I was planing on XA2 this month and now I'm stuck, because most likely if TL HD DVD gets approved this fall my player won't play it, or am I wrong on that assumption?

I would buy XA2 on the basis that it plays all the wonderful HD DVD content with full set of capabilities. Until you see announcements of studios targeting TL-51 and having it not be compatible with your machine, I would not have any worry whatsoever. TL-51 is a technology announcement by Toshiba. And that is all for now.

Quote:


Cheap players are of course welcome. Especially if they have quality too As for the Meridian, didn't they announce that they have no plans for making HD DVD player?

That was a mistake. The person was not notified about their plans. They clarified this nicely yesterday, saying they are 100% behind HD DVD now and plan to build reference quality players: http://media.meridian-audio.com/pres...ddvd-ces07.pdf

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

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post #749 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 12:56 PM
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Amir,

The link doesn't work.
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post #750 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webphilosopher View Post

Amir,

The link doesn't work.

Yeah the link is off - I was able to go back to the main URL, click on "press" and find the pdf. Nice! Looks like the high end is covered for HD DVD nicely here.
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