Industry Insiders Q&A MASTER THREAD [separate thread for Xbox/Add On & PS3] - Page 27 - AVS Forum
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post #781 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 05:59 PM
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Does anybody know when the current AACS interim agreement expires? I haven't heard any news of progress there for quite some time. Is anything happening?

- Tom

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post #782 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

As far as I know however, LG is not going to use the logo so I don't think any of this matters.

Amir, recently Alex posted LG has no intention to add HDi to their universal player. If that is true would you still personally consider the LG universal player to the first universal player released?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Will there be a firmware update to fix the black and white HDMI clipping issue for the PS3? I cannot get a firm answer on this from anyone.

Stacey tested Blu-ray playback on the PS3 a while ago but that was before YCbCr output was added to the PS3 with a firmware update. Stacey, if you are reading this thread would you mind testing the YCbCr output of the PS3?
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post #783 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

A correction (I'll save a rebuttal for the Format Battle thread):
Not true. A demonstration was shown by Fox of a networked trivia game where multiple people competed against each other from separate Blu-ray players.

Response here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9447519

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post #784 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trbarry View Post

Does anybody know when the current AACS interim agreement expires? I haven't heard any news of progress there for quite some time. Is anything happening?

- Tom

It was extended to June this year I think. But this is not material unfortunately as if the final agreement delays, an extension will be almost automatic.

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post #785 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfuhlendorf View Post

Amir,

Again I want to thank you greatly for your (considerable) time spent here talking to us. And let me reinforce that I love movies, and thus by definition, HDDVD

Much appreciated. And let me say that your post was the preverbal straw that broke the camel's back. I had seen so many posts like it that I used your post as an opportunity to set the record straight. But didn't mean at all to make it look like I was unhappy about your post. You correctly identified the general feeling around some corners of AVS.

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But I'd prefer a separate HDDVD version. I so hate flippers that I asked a friend of mine who is an artist to draw stylized titles on the full-screen side of all my old two-sided DVDs... Do you think that other studios beside Warner (Paramount, specifically) might also begin to use those discs?

I don't want to speak on behalf of other studios. But I know Universal is not in that camp. Unsure about Paramount.

I think your best friend here is that THD discs are difficult to make. So it will take some time for them to be ready, and even then, they may get used occasionally until they refine the process (recall that all the BD difficulties are there, but compounded due to HD DVD being on the other side).

Quote:


Do you know if they plan use that design in a plastic HDDVD case with different colors? I don't think those ugly bicolor boxes will fit well with my HDDVD collection...

I am with you on that one. Currently, I keep all of my BD discs behind the A/V cabinet so that no one sees I have them . Now they will be in broad daylight if these discs come to pass...

Quote:


what are your views on digital playground's announcement? Do you think that porn might really help HDDVD?

It can help in many directions:

1. They validate what we have been saying for a while. Namely, HD DVD can be manufactured by just about anyone. This means they can easily find outfits to replicate them. This will enable the thousands of independent distributors to also use the same capability producing other content you may be interested in.

2. They create business for post houses doing HD DVD, helping the ecosystem expand with new business.

3. They will push the interactivity front given the rich capabilities of HDi and nature of their business which lends itself to this sort of technology.

4. They provide a better product for the people interested in that kind of material.

5. They help spread the word that HD DVD is good through their PR campaigns.

It seems people mostly pick on #4 with internet download being the major reason they think it matters less. I actually agree with them on this. At the same time, these guys do sell almost $4B worth of DVD products from what I hear. So even if PC is eroding that, there is plenty left still to fuel growth of these formats.

Quote:


Is there any market research on the subject? People so often cite VHS porn support as its reason for success, but it in fact was the first big home video format, so it is not a good comparison. Will porn aficionados pay extra for HD, when DVD is so cheap? And are there any possible iHD interactive features that might attract the porn crowd?

As you know, some titles were created using our older WMV-HD format. There, HD became a strong marketing tool for them, with one of the titles winning an "award" because of that innovation. So as a minimum, HD DVD will provide some marketing value for them.

Quote:


Again thanks for your patience writing here. It is NOT often that a company's spokesperson shows such a level of knowledge and sheer enthusiasm for their products. It's clear that you treat HDDVDs success as an almost personal matter, like Steve Jobs treats the iPhone's success, and this kind of personal touch is what the BDA lacks.

Thanks again. It is kind praise like this that makes me hang around here...

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post #786 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cordingley View Post

A question I would like to ask is is do you have any idea when the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on is coming to Australia?

Paul, just letting you know that I have the date but don't know yet if I can share it before I hear from our sub there. Given the time difference, it may take another couple of days. Feel free to remind me if I don't answer it.

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post #787 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Just a quick update on my previous observations regarding displays at CES. There is now a new king in front projectors, the JVC RS-1 (and its brother, HD-1). I will be retiring my Sony Ruby as soon as this poppy ships in Feb. More reflections here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9435822. At $6K list, anyone who seriously wants to enjoy HD DVD/BD, needs to check this PJ out. As an FYI, JVC is majority owned by MEI/Panasonic so I am not saying this to support brother HD DVD company (although there appears to be strong rumors of MEI divesting from JVC).

I also had the opportunity to see the new Pioneer Plasma. They definitely seem to have made a breakthrough on black levels here. So much so that you can not tell the display is on even in a dark room! Alas, the unit shown was 768p, not 1080p. And I have my concerns about reflections in family room type applications (my scenario). But nice innovation on behalf of Pioneer.

I saw both pieces above and I could not agree more. The HD-1 was in a suite at the back of Caesar's Palace and it was the best PJ I have ever seen that was under $25,000.

Really amazing stuff.

My question to Amirm is speculative.

The new technology Pioneer Plasma display in their booth theater even looked amazing with some ambient light. There seemed to be no reflection showing despite those inky black levels. The demo clip shown had deep shadows and spotlighted lighting (it was a photographer taking pictures of a model in colorful clothing in various backgrounds) yet the colors were so vibrant and the textures so vivid they almost appeared 3D.

Amir, in your experience, have you ever seen a better picture anywhere than theses two products , the JVC HD-1 and the technology demo Pioneer plasma?

And based on your experience, how long do you think it would take to bring this Pioneer technology to market?

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post #788 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

My question to Amirm is speculative.

The new technology Pioneer Plasma display in their booth theater even looked amazing with some ambient light. There seemed to be no reflection showing despite those inky black levels. The demo clip shown had deep shadows and spotlighted lighting (it was a photographer taking pictures of a model in colorful clothing in various backgrounds) yet the colors were so vibrant and the textures so vivid they almost appeared 3D.

Amir, in your experience, have you ever seen a better picture anywhere than theses two products , the JVC HD-1 and the technology demo Pioneer demo?

They looked really good. I reserve judgement to test the released products of course and do more side by side tests. But both seem to break new ground for their category.

Quote:


And based on your experience, how long do you think it would take to bring this Pioneer technology to market?

The unit shown seemed to work pretty well for a prototype. It lacked a video processor so it will take 6 to 9 months to add that probably. So I would say it could be ready for this Xmas season.

Note that the unit shown was 768p. I am sure we all want 1080p sets for our HD DVD/BD players . And a larger size possibly, both of which will delay the introduction some...

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post #789 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 08:16 PM
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Note that the unit shown was 768p. I am sure we all want 1080p sets for our HD DVD/BD players . And a larger size possibly, both of which will delay the introduction some...

I didn't know that. If that set was 768p it blew away the 1080p display right next to it. That's even more impressive to me.

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post #790 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

I didn't know that. If that set was 768p it blew away the 1080p display right next to it. That's even more impressive to me.

Actually, they were both 768p . Yes, it is strange that Pioneer did not show this on their flagship 1080p unit.

But we digress. Back to HD topics .

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post #791 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 08:32 PM
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this question would be perfect for CJPlay to answer, but alas, he's still prohibited from posting, so...

insiders,

Criterion's Position on HD Optical Media

Basically, Peter Becker states that Criterion would not release any titles on either format until a 'solution' came from one of the 'bigger players' in the industry.

With the announcement from Warner about TotalHD, has there been any talk (behind doors, of course) from Criterion about releasing anything on TotalHD? Do they even know it exists yet? One comment made by Peter Becker is that they don't want to release two separate versions of one title, due to the problem of keeping two sets of inventory. It would seem that TotalHD could be the best solution for Criterion.


thanks, and keep up the great work!
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post #792 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingMore View Post

this question would be perfect for CJPlay to answer, but alas, he's still prohibited from posting, so...

insiders,

Criterion's Position on HD Optical Media

Basically, Peter Becker states that Criterion would not release any titles on either format until a 'solution' came from one of the 'bigger players' in the industry.

With the announcement from Warner about TotalHD, has there been any talk (behind doors, of course) from Criterion about releasing anything on TotalHD? Do they even know it exists yet? One comment made by Peter Becker is that they don't want to release two separate versions of one title, due to the problem of keeping two sets of inventory. It would seem that TotalHD could be the best solution for Criterion.

thanks, and keep up the great work!

I am pretty sure they didn't know about it because Warner pre-briefed very few companies before CES. I doubt that this news alone would compell them to publish though. Statements like above typically means they have other fish to fry than to invest in HD right now.

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post #793 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 08:43 PM
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Amir,

I was curious as to your opinion regarding TW's TotalHD disc? What concerns me is that Time Warner alluded to charging a premium for TotalHD above the current cost of HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs. It is my belief that this is asking the consumer to subsidize the format war. The consumers did not create the format war -- the studios and CEs did. Why should I pay an extra $5-10 (??) per movie because a consensus could not be reached.

Personally, I won't purchase any Time Warner movies unless they could be had for $20-25. Has Time Warner given any consideration to consumer backlash regarding pricing?


Thanks!


PS: Any ballpark time-frame for the TL51; i.e., a year from now, two-years?? Just curious, that's all.
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post #794 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sknight1 View Post

Amir,

I was curious as to your opinion regarding TW's TotalHD disc?

THD discs are made to make one entity happy: the retailer (because they don't have to stock both types). It is not designed as much to make customers happy or those of us in one camp or the other.

To the extent the retailers now push HD formats more, that is a good thing. To the extent it adds complexity to an already complex format, it may not be a good thing. And I agree, if it increase the retail costs of HD DVD/BD discs, that is not a good thing either.

Man, you guys really force me to go on a limb on these topics .

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post #795 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sknight1 View Post

PS: Any ballpark time-frame for the TL51; i.e., a year from now, two-years?? Just curious, that's all.

I think standardization will take us most of this year. So any products would be slated for next year.

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post #796 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:33 PM
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Amir,

The xbox 360 HD-DVD addon plays 15 and 30GB HD discs flawlessly. When the 17, 34, and 51 GB discs hit, will the 360 HD player be able to, through firmware updates, handle any of these new disc sizes? Is it possible to control the laser through software updates to the extent that reading an additional 3rd layer is even possible?

I am not asking for a solid yes or no; just a question of feasibility.
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post #797 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 09:41 PM
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A question to all insiders.

What is the implication of the Volume Key decryption which has been accomplished for HD-DVD? I understand that the person who did this is now looking for a stand-alone BD-Drive so that he can do the same for BD. Seems like it will be pretty straight-forward based on what has been done so far.

How does this affect HD-DVD and BD?
What are the possible options for both the hardware and software vendors?

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post #798 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 10:41 PM
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Amir,

I am curious about this as well. With the volume keys being posted publicly and movies being ripped, what is the next step in the revocation process?

I mean do they have a little flowchart hung on a cubicle somewhere where they decide who or what is actually at fault before they start killing keys for hardware or software? (software playback exploit in this case)

I guess its just a matter of time at this point before they exploit the same software playback hole for AACS on Blu-Ray media...

-pd
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post #799 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Williams View Post

Thank the Makers for that!! Now if you'd like to offer a swap out for a new "Superbit-BD" version of TFE when that comes out, that'd be lovely, appreciated, and a slick PR move.



I was also interested to find out that Casino Royale and Open Season are going to be AVC -- great news there! Can you say at this time if the rest of the Bond films will be released as AVC BDs as well, at some point in the future? Everyone has been raving abou their new releases on DVD but I'm holding off for the future BD boxed set.

Any hints on when that may arrive?

Thanks again!

-John

Please see my earlier post on this idea. A new disc for TFE may be ready in a couple of months.

Sony does not have distribution of the entire Bond catalog. You will have to ask Fox about the other titles.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...66#post9201166

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post #800 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by WaldorfSalad View Post

Thanks. However it looks like the BDP-S1 firmware update is now generally available for download (see thread in BD Players forum). Do you have a full release notes available for the firmware so we can see everything that got fixed? This firmware update is a move in the right direction for Sony, increases confidence in the player, and would seem to bring it in line with the Pioneer in terms of playability of discs.

Sorry, but I do not have release notes. I am on the road again next week, so I won't be able to provide too much detail on this until I get back.

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post #801 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer View Post

paidgeek, is the limit for what Sony will handle 'pornography', or is it broader, extending to anything that contains explicit sexual content? Don May Jr's post at Mobius last April relating that Sony refused to handle Thriller and The Image as Blu-ray, for instance, would seem to indicate that the ban is a good deal broader than just pornography? And for that matter why does Sony handle Japanese pornography on Blu-ray? Is this just a Sony US policy?

The company is fairly liberal so long as the title has an MPAA rating. I can't speak for what the Sony Japan plants will handle.

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post #802 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdragon View Post

Paidgeek,

Could you please provide your expert comments in this thread?: Something MPEG2 has that VC1 does not

This is about blocking artifacts in MPEG2 on BD movies (all of them, apparently).

Amir and Ben have already contributed [thanks Amir/Ben]. If we had CJPlay here, that would have made it A, B, C!

We have a lengthy evaluation agreement with MS that stipulates we cannot discuss the VC1 encoder. That said, all of the available codecs have artifacts and blocking on every title, it is just a matter of whether or not you decide to go frame stepping along to look for them. This is made less obvious on the Toshiba players by the fact they do not support frame stills, at least on the players we have seen.

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post #803 of 4841 Old 01-12-2007, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Thanks.

I have one other, non-related question.

Will there be a firmware update to fix the black and white HDMI clipping issue for the PS3? I cannot get a firm answer on this from anyone.

I do not know of any clipping issues on the PS3, can you provide a link to the source of this information?

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post #804 of 4841 Old 01-13-2007, 12:03 AM
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Amir: Sorry to annoy you with this again but do you have any updates regarding the DD+ bug with the Xbox360 HD DVD addon?
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post #805 of 4841 Old 01-13-2007, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwisTz View Post

Amir: Sorry to annoy you with this again but do you have any updates regarding the DD+ bug with the Xbox360 HD DVD addon?

Yes, I have the date now. What I don't have is the permission of the Xbox guys to disclose it. I am hoping to get a hold of someone next week.

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post #806 of 4841 Old 01-13-2007, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Yes, I have the date now. What I don't have is the permission of the Xbox guys to disclose it. I am hoping to get a hold of someone next week.

Thanks for the quick response mate. You are a credit to this forum.
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post #807 of 4841 Old 01-13-2007, 01:11 AM
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It seems that providing full 1920 x 1080 anamorphic formatting of 2.35 content for use with CIH 2.35 systems would be a tremendous opportunity to expand the capabilities of HD. The 35mm cinema format that has the highest image area (anamorphic 35) would have the ability to be the same at home with the use of a high quality anamorphic lens. Does the news that HD-DVD has found a way to expand disc capacity to 51 GB present an opportunty to do this as a layer? One layer would be letterboxed, the other anamorphic. BD has always had more capacity. Certainly the ASC, SOC, and others from the motion picture community would endorse such a capability.

Can it be done? Who can get some traction with this? armirm, what say you? Others?
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post #808 of 4841 Old 01-13-2007, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

I do not know of any clipping issues on the PS3, can you provide a link to the source of this information?

Hi paidgeek,

Here is some information which may be pertinent to the issue at hand:

Check out this 24-bit RGB capture from a Sega game, taken from the PS3's HDMI output (as opposed to a dump of the framebuffer).



This background should be pure white. Take this shot into Photoshop and that white is actually RGB 235, rather than RGB 255. If I take the original AVI file into VirtualDub, add a 16-235 to 0-255 levels filter, the entire clip is perfect. If I look at the clip on a histogram, the RGB range is obviously 16-235 rather than 0-255.

So it looks as though the PS3 is outputting video systems RGB rather than computer systems RGB. So as with my capture equipment, on some displays black won't look like pure black, white won't look like pure white.

Of course, as we're talking about an established RGB protocol, this is most likely entirely intentional. But in the real world we may see the phenomena as being similar to the Xbox 360 VGA cable where some monitors look fine, and others do not look so good.

Also as with the Xbox 360, I can see many consumers asking that support for both RGB systems is added to the firmware, assuming I'm right of course
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post #809 of 4841 Old 01-13-2007, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

I do not know of any clipping issues on the PS3, can you provide a link to the source of this information?

Stacey tested the PS3 a while ago in several areas including dynamic range.


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Originally Posted by Grandmaster View Post

This background should be pure white.

Actually I believe that is right since the PS3 outputs games based on the video RGB standard. Just to clarify this but when people talk about clipping with the PS3 they are only talking about Blu-ray movies.


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Of course, as we're talking about an established RGB protocol, this is most likely entirely intentional. But in the real world we may see the phenomena as being similar to the Xbox 360 VGA cable where some monitors look fine, and others do not look so good.

For VGA that can be an issue since it does not really know what to expect, but HDMI actually specifies that all HD resolution output (720p, 1080i and 1080p) be sent using the video RGB standard.
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post #810 of 4841 Old 01-13-2007, 06:05 AM
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Excellent information, Richard. Thanks for the illumination. That makes the clipping on BD playback all the more mystifying then...
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