Industry Insiders Q&A MASTER THREAD [separate thread for Xbox/Add On & PS3] - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azumi View Post


We all know that Sony subsidizes companies that are producing Blu-ray.

I didn't know that?

What kind of companies?

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post #902 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I didn't know that?

What kind of companies?

It has already been discussed here (probably on the previous thread), and I've read it on quite a number of industry papers.

From my recollections, early financial breakdowns stated that the initial replication costs for Blu-ray discs would be more expensive than HD-DVDs, until economies of scale kick in. In order to keep the Studios happy, Sony and the BDA conceded that they would subsidize the BD's manufacturing costs during a limited timeframe in order to match HD-DVD's costs.

I guess that the financial details are confidential, but I'd assume that it's safe to say that BD Studios (BVHE, Fox, Lionsgate, Sony, Warner...) are the first beneficiaries of this initiative, and that post-prod facilities and disc replication plants must also have some incentives if they wish to upgrade to Blu-ray.

This leads to the original question I was asking -- is the porn industry entitled to the same financial incentives even if they cannot use Sony's plants? If that's the case, censorship isn't an issue, it's just a financial negociation...
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post #903 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azumi View Post

It has already been discussed here (probably on the previous thread), and I've read it on quite a number of industry papers.

From my recollections, early financial breakdowns stated that the initial replication costs for Blu-ray discs would be more expensive than HD-DVDs, until economies of scale kick in. In order to keep the Studios happy, Sony and the BDA conceded that they would subsidize the BD's manufacturing costs during a limited timeframe in order to match HD-DVD's costs.

I guess that the financial details are confidential, but I'd assume that it's safe to say that BD Studios (BVHE, Fox, Lionsgate, Sony, Warner...) are the first beneficiaries of this initiative, and that post-prod facilities and disc replication plants must also have some incentives if they wish to upgrade to Blu-ray.

This leads to the original question I was asking -- is the porn industry entitled to the same financial incentives even if they cannot use Sony's plants? If that's the case, censorship isn't an issue, it's just a financial negociation...

And will the results of that finanancial negotiation vary arbitrarily depending upon whether Sony approves of what you want to master? This might be important for studios competing with Sony.

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post #904 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira View Post

So are you saying this means the end of the "Unrated" video release that has become so common on DVD (especially with horror titles)? Are we going to be forevermore stuck with edited R-rated versions of movies like HIGH TENSION and THE HILLS HAVE EYES as opposed to the uncensored unrated director's cuts should Blu-ray become the next standard???

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What I meant was that any title which has been rated by the MPAA or is clearly not an adult title would be fine. Our practices for DVD will be continued for Blu-ray.

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post #905 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 08:20 AM
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At first I suspected that I just had a faulty unit, but I've now found corroboration from other users that the Toshiba HD-XA2 has a problem with juddery video when watching certain HD DVD and regular DVD discs. This issue is not present on the HD-A1 playing the same discs. The following thread lists examples:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=787340

Can one of the insiders in contact with Toshiba find out if they are aware of this problem and have any plans to address it? This seems to be similar to the issue that the Samsung Blu-ray player initially had when watching BD discs with DTS soundtracks. Samsung eventually fixed the issue with firmware, so I am confident that Toshiba can do the same. However, I don't know how long I'd be willing to wait for that, without at least some assurance from Toshiba that they're working on it.

I would also like Toshiba to address the issue of the XA2's poor sound quality over the analog audio outputs. Bass seems to be suppressed an additional 10db over even the HD-A1's low bass, but only when decoding Dolby Digital Plus tracks (standard DD 5.1 and DTS on DVDs are not affected).

For a $1,000 second-generation player, I find these problems greatly disappointing.

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post #906 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 10:27 AM
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Thanks for the report Josh. We will surely pass it on to Toshiba.

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post #907 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 11:09 AM
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Amir,

Any chance that MS will offer some sort of connection between Xbox live D/L and hd-dvd's. Perhaps working with a retailer(s) go offer a discount for D/L users that might want to purchase the hd-dvd after an hd rental?

I notice a high correlation between the movies on Xbox Live marketplace and the movies that are available for hd-dvd. Coincidence?

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post #908 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

Amir,

As per this report: http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/13...o-handle-iptv/ will the IPTV streaming functionality from the 360 require a new, revised 360 or will current models be firmware updated for full support?

Thanks,
Robert.

Amir,

When you get a chance would you please check with the Xbox team and let us know whether we'll need Revision 2 360's to use the IPTV functionality or not? I'm ofcourse hoping that all of our current 360's can be firmware upgraded.

Thanks,
Robert.
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post #909 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 01:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

I think you're conflating the issue of codec and transport (which is pretty common - HD DVD and BD have a very different high-end audio mode than DVD).

The output of a player is going to be identical between a PCM and a TrueHD track - they both get decoded to the exact same bits in the player, and (ideally) transported out via PCM, or if if there isn't HDMI, through what the player does support.


BD uses PCM because it doesn't have a mandatory lossless audio codec, not because there's an actual difference in audio output between lossless and PCM. Lots of BD titles have had compromised video quality due to space constraints.

I don't recall asking for interactivity or for audio muxing, and I wouldn't call the muxing high-end audio ;0) Seriously though, I get that uncompressed PCM and TrueHD are bit to bit identical, but there are no requirements to transport it out in it's native decoded format correct?

Isn't this how the 360 add-on qualfied as an HD DVD device with it's crippled audio transport? I mean really what is the point of decoding a TrueHD track and transporting it out via toslink encoded at 1.5Mbps, it's like a tease in a box! (I digress, but can you guys fix it).

It's my understanding that one of the primary reason the BDA choose not to make lossless audio mandatory was to allow manufactures more flexibility in players, allowing the consumer to decide what features they want in a player. I appreciate that HD DVD specifications made lossless mandatory for players, and at a lower cost than practically all BD players out now, but that doesn't change the fact that content providers are not required to carry a lossless track correct? So is it really an advantage? Where are all the titles with TrueHD? Perhaps the content providers belive that DD+ is good enough for HTs, that certainly seems to be what your alluding too...

As far as the space issue is concerned, I would not want video compromised for an uncompressed PCM track, I think everyone would agree with this. Yes there are BD25 titles that demonstrate where TrueHD for DTS MA would have been a better option to allow for the best possible video presentation, but the video codecs choosen surely have some play. But with BD50, are you really going to run into a space issue using AVC/VC-1 and uncompressed PCM? Can you think of any BD50 titles that have compromised video in this category?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

Well, yes, but there's a wide range of options on HD DVD between DD @ 640 and PCM. You have TrueHD, of course. And DD+ @ 1.5 Mbps is extremely high quality, supporting >16-bit for example. There are certainly scenarios where DD+ will provide a more accurate version of a high-bit master than PCM @ 16-bit would.

Really? Can anyone give some examples on titles available today where DD+ sounds more accurate than their high-bit master and what causes this? Is it the encoding/mastering process, the dialog normalization and DRC that DD applies, some other psychoacoustic process?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post

It's a paradigm shift, not a limitation . We decode audio in the player for the same reason we decode video in the player - no-latency compositing. It's the simplest, offers the most flexibility, and the most predictible quality.


Can you proivde some more clarity on what limitations you're getting on that?

And can you contrast that to the limitations having the video decoded in the player doesn't cause?


That may be true, but the paradigm shift still limits the consumer from choosing where they want audio decoded. It's basically forcing enthusiasts to invest more in a quality player that does excellent video AND audio decoding. It is a limitation because the industry is now saying audio decoding for these new formats is the domain of the player, not the receiver, so going forward, in choosing a HD DVD/Blu-ray player, we now have to consider both the audio and video sections, whereas in the DVD world, it didn't matter if you had quailty onboard decoders or not, all you needed was a toslink output, hdmi, or iLink and a quailty pre/pro/receiver to decode. There is really not much else to it, given the pardigm shift I'd just like to see more HD DVD players available from quality CE manufacturers that we know. The Toshiba's are fine players, but not my first CE manufacturer of choice.
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post #910 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post


The copy must be permanent. So it can not expire. Studios however, can provide you other options above and beyond which could expire, etc. But the standad offer can not be temporary or have count limits.

Just how managed is managed? I mean, OK it has to be permanent- but what about options to back it up, move it around, or transcode it?

Will the backend servers know that I bought rights to copy, so if my HDD crashes I can reburn it? I'm worried about data integrity and transportability and would feel much better about the whole affair if these are the primary concerns (instead of primarily how to secure hollywood another revenue stream for something I can do for free with DVD- DCMA aside).
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post #911 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 02:27 PM
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To any Sony or Blu-ray insiders:

We found something really weird on both the Kingdom of Heaven blu-ray and DVD .

Any idea what this is? Seems like it would be in the master if its on both the BD and DVD.
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post #912 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orogogus View Post

Just how managed is managed? I mean, OK it has to be permanent- but what about options to back it up, move it around, or transcode it?

One at a time please. If you want to move it around, optical is your friend already. As for transcode, they could offer portable MC if there is enough interest.
3-5 hours of transcoding is never a mainstream thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orogogus View Post

Will the backend servers know that I bought rights to copy, so if my HDD crashes I can reburn it?

If your DVD collection is destroyed, could you ask for a new copy? Of course, I do agree MMC license backup could be useful during a HDD/Raid disater.

My question to insider: Could I back up MMC license instead of the MMC movie?

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post #913 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by benes View Post

To any Sony or Blu-ray insiders:

We found something really weird on both the Kingdom of Heaven blu-ray and DVD .

Any idea what this is? Seems like it would be in the master if its on both the BD and DVD.

We will see what we can find out about this. It looks like it may have been related to a "power window" left inadvertently during the original color correction.

Sony Pictures BD Insider
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post #914 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 02:53 PM
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Links to sound clips comparing the messed up sound of TOTAL RECALL to the correct sound were posted in another thread a few days ago. These are sound clips for use in showing BASIC INSTINCT's higher pitch sound.

No matter what, it is now confirmed that BASIC INSTINCT, ELEPHANT MAN, all three RAMBO films and TOTAL RECALL have higher pitched soundtracks.

Here is the Caralco logo music from BASIC INSTINCT's NTSC releases.

Here is the same music taken from the HD-DVD.

Here is a scene from the movie, taken from the SD DVD.

Here is the same exact scene taken from the HD-DVD.

Amir, you have not said anything on this subject for days. I hope that is simply because you are awaiting word from the folks in Europe. Please, make sure this is fixed.

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post #915 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 03:33 PM
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post #916 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Thanks for the report Josh. We will surely pass it on to Toshiba.

Thank you, Amir. The XA2 also has poor audio sync over all output types. Can you please pass that on as well?

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post #917 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 04:34 PM
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Open question to industry insiders. How is movie sales calculated on both formats? What constitutes a HD DVD sale in software or a Blu-ray sales in software?

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post #918 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Links to sound clips comparing the messed up sound of TOTAL RECALL to the correct sound were posted in another thread a few days ago. These are sound clips for use in showing BASIC INSTINCT's higher pitch sound.

No matter what, it is now confirmed that BASIC INSTINCT, ELEPHANT MAN, all three RAMBO films and TOTAL RECALL have higher pitched soundtracks.

Here is the Caralco logo music from BASIC INSTINCT's NTSC releases.

Here is the same music taken from the HD-DVD.

Here is a scene from the movie, taken from the SD DVD.

Here is the same exact scene taken from the HD-DVD.

Amir, you have not said anything on this subject for days. I hope that is simply because you are awaiting word from the folks in Europe. Please, make sure this is fixed.

well, as I said from the beginning, the problem is far exaggerated. I didn't hear a single Chipmunk or person on helium in the example.

To be truthful, it is now confirmed that on three or four peoples individual hardware setups reproduce the sound this way. So is it an issue of incompatibility with certain equipment and import discs, or is it a problem with the disc authoring?

Darn it Amir, it's been like four days, and two of them were weekends where you had all day to figure this out. Why haven't you gotten to the bottom of this yet?!
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post #919 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Thank you, Amir. The XA2 also has poor audio sync over all output types. Can you please pass that on as well?

Yes, and we should get our XA2 shortly so we can try to repro.

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post #920 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Links to sound clips comparing the messed up sound of TOTAL RECALL to the correct sound were posted in another thread a few days ago. These are sound clips for use in showing BASIC INSTINCT's higher pitch sound.

No matter what, it is now confirmed that BASIC INSTINCT, ELEPHANT MAN, all three RAMBO films and TOTAL RECALL have higher pitched soundtracks.

Here is the Caralco logo music from BASIC INSTINCT's NTSC releases.

Here is the same music taken from the HD-DVD.

Here is a scene from the movie, taken from the SD DVD.

Here is the same exact scene taken from the HD-DVD.

Agree these don't sound right.

Quote:


Amir, you have not said anything on this subject for days. I hope that is simply because you are awaiting word from the folks in Europe. Please, make sure this is fixed.

I got an explanation but didn't understand it enough to post it here . So I have asked for a clarification. These samples help me better figure out what is going on.

Amir
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post #921 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Agree these don't sound right.


I got an explanation but didn't understand it enough to post it here . So I have asked for a clarification. These samples help me better figure out what is going on.

I guess the important question is: Can they fix it?

Thanks,
Chris
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post #922 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfbinet View Post

Open question to industry insiders. How is movie sales calculated on both formats? What constitutes a HD DVD sale in software or a Blu-ray sales in software?

Companies like Nielsen Videoscan use point of sale data (meaning reported sales are in consumers' hands). Note, however, that some press releases have referred to "discs shipped", as opposed to "discs sold", meaning discs somewhere in the distribution channel, including on store shelves, and possibly greatly larger than the actual number in consumers' hands.

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post #923 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 08:14 PM
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Good news! Toshiba has updated software for both A2 and XA2 which is supposed to release today or tomorrow. They seem to think it fixes the problem you reported Josh but the release notes are not specific enough for me to be sure.

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post #924 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Good news! Toshiba has updated software for both A2 and XA2 which is supposed to release today or tomorrow. They seem to think it fixes the problem you reported Josh but the release notes are not specific enough for me to be sure.


amirm:
Will I be able to dl from there website directly for burning to cd??

XBOX Gamertag:deezusmusic
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post #925 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deez View Post

amirm:
Will I be able to dl from there website directly for burning to cd??

I am sure someone will post the image as has been before. Just keep an eye on the HD DVD player section for it....

And yes, we have asked them to officially post the image on their web site so hopefully they do that too.

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post #926 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Good news! Toshiba has updated software for both A2 and XA2 which is supposed to release today or tomorrow. They seem to think it fixes the problem you reported Josh but the release notes are not specific enough for me to be sure.

Amir, any chance the Xbox Team will let you annouce the release date for the DTS patch?
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post #927 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I am sure someone will post the image as has been before. Just keep an eye on the HD DVD player section for it....

And yes, we have asked them to officially post the image on their web site so hopefully they do that too.

So no official date and time??

Also, ty for posting here and letting us know.....

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post #928 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckong View Post

Amir, any chance the Xbox Team will let you annouce the release date for the DTS patch?

Not yet but I hope to be able to share *something* on it so you have some idea on it.

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

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post #929 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 08:46 PM
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Not yet but I hope to be able to share *something* on it so you have some idea on it.

Amir, could you please coerce some details on possible FW updates for the HD-A1/XA-1 from those Tosh folks?
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post #930 of 4841 Old 01-15-2007, 09:00 PM
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Amir, could you please coerce some details on possible FW updates for the HD-A1/XA-1 from those Tosh folks?

It is coming. They had to focus on Gen 2 serious but now that the product is out, I believe they are going to do more maintenance updates for G1. But please don't hold me to it. I don't work for Toshiba .

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

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