AACS Not So Cracked After All - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

So I don't know what you are talking about. I couldn't find DRL in the AACS 0.9. On pg 17, there is only CRL in the graph. Maybe you can help me. Why are you keep spreading the FUD that addon drive will be blacklisted? According the AACS, the software player is the device here, thus have the device key. According to mulsix64, it is the software failed to protect the caculated result.

Why do you need to blacklist the addon drive again?

FUD?

the root of all stupidity is ignorance.

Chapter
4.1 Drive Certificate
4.3 Drive Authentication Alogrithm for AACS
4.8 Updating Host revocation list in Non-volatile Memory of Drive
4.9 Updating Drive Revocation List in Non-Volatile memory of Host

An AACS licensed drive shall retain in non-volatile storage, the most recent Host Revocation List (HRL) data which it encounters and has verified.

An AACS licensed PC host shall retain in non-volatile storage, the most recent Drive Revocation List (DRL) data which it encounters and has verified.

My advice

instead of skimming the AACS Specs Common rev .91

read the damn thing before you start declaring someone is spreading FUD.

kthanks.

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post #92 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

1 volume key is comp'd. Big woop. DRL the problem child in this case the Xbox360 add on,

Again, why revoke the addon instead of Powerdvd? You said add-on has both device key and drive key. According to AACS, the software player should have the device key. Mulisix said insecure player, didn't he? Why are you accusing the addon to be the problem child instead of the software player? You are still spreading FUD. Copy and paste AACS wouldn't do you any good.

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post #93 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

Chapter
4.1 Drive Certificate
4.3 Drive Authentication Alogrithm for AACS
4.8 Updating Host revocation list in Non-volatile Memory of Drive
4.9 Updating Drive Revocation List in Non-Volatile memory of Host

How many times do you have copy and paste this? Please explain why the drive is the problem here? Does the drive contain the volume key? Could mulsix64 extract volume key using any player given the addon drive?

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post #94 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

How many times do you have copy and paste this? Please explain why the drive is the problem here? Does the drive contain the volume key? Could mulsix64 extract volume key using any player given the addon drive?


apparently alot since you do not get it.


here let me explain to you once again. Dumbing it down even further.

The only way PC are playing HD-DVD right now is with the Xbox360 add on. If there was no Xbox360 addon, there would be NO HD-DVD playing on a PC until someone else MADE an HD-DVD drive.

CAPICHE??

really K.I.S.S does apply here (Keep It Simple Stupid)

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post #95 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

I was being nice, minus well drop the charades

just because your ignorant little mind does not comprehend does not mean it is not valid.

copying and pasting AACS does me a lot of good as my information is backed on FACTS not on what you "THINK" is the right thing..


I was being nice too. You said you spend time to read AACS and then quote
"The Device key and Drive key (both in the Xbpx360 HD-DVD add on otherwise no HD-DVD support!!)" So the addon has the device key not the software player?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

Xbox360 drive is supposed to be for Xbox not PC. People using them for PC HD-DVD. Problem child is not the software player. Problem child is xbox360 HD-DVD drive being used on PC. Blacklist xbox360 HD-DVD drives as they sit today. Problem solved. Simple really.

Ok, now I get your point. 2nd grade English works better. The software player failed to do the job. But instead of punishing/revoke the insecure software, hey why don't we just forbid all the ROM device?

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post #96 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

I was being nice too. You said you spend time to read AACS and then quote
"The Device key and Drive key (both in the Xbpx360 HD-DVD add on otherwise no HD-DVD support!!)" So the addon has the device key not the software player?




Ok, now I get your point. 2nd grade English works better. The software player failed to do the job. But instead of punishing/revoke the insecure software, hey why don't we just forbid all the ROM device?

and BACK to the AACS we go

xbox360 HD-DVD is ONE of many HD-DVD rom devices. so DRL/HRL the Xbox360 HD-DVD add on is only blacklisting ONE "device family" and more specifically one HD-DVD player family for the PC.

as for the PowerDVD being the problem child, big assumption since no other "cracker" "h@c|<3r" ,engineer has been able to replicate the results even with the his code


Funny that the baby cryers are the ones that got the xbox360 hd-dvd to play on a PC. I love this!!

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post #97 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

xbox360 HD-DVD is ONE of many HD-DVD rom devices. so black listing the Xbox360 is only blacklisting ONE "device" and more specifically one HD-DVD player family for the PC.

Didn't I say 2nd grade English worked better? There is Drive revocation and
Device revocation (with MKB) in AACS, agreed?

Simple question, who has the device key here? The software player or the add-on drive? Could mulisx64 get the volume unique key without a so called insecure but legitmate software player? I am curious why you never said anything about the software player while FUD again and again on the add-on?

Quote
"Funny that the baby cryers are the ones that got the xbox360 hd-dvd to play on a PC. I love this!! "

Ok, I think I know the reason now.

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post #98 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

Didn't I say 2nd grade English worked better? There is Drive revocation and
Device revocation (with MKB) in AACS, agreed?

Simple question, who has the device key here? The software player or the add-on drive? Could mulisx64 get the volume unique key without a so called insecure but legitmate software player? I am curious why you never said anything about the software player while FUD again and again on the add-on?

ohh that is quite simple

muslix is full of crap is why.

As was stated on his own thread,

He posts a screenie with "keys" blackedout, then post the movie playing. The then when asked, gives no information at all? Then decides to go on vacation, Yep sounds like a full working program to me!! A program to trick everyone

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post #99 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

and BACK to the AACS we go

xbox360 HD-DVD is ONE of many HD-DVD rom devices. so DRL/HRL the Xbox360 HD-DVD add on is only blacklisting ONE "device family" and more specifically one HD-DVD player family for the PC.

as for the PowerDVD being the problem child, big assumption since no other "cracker" "h@c|<3r" ,engineer has been able to replicate the results even with the his code


Funny that the baby cryers are the ones that got the xbox360 hd-dvd to play on a PC. I love this!!

I am new here and am trying to understand what you are saying. Are you implying that the HD-DVD drive has two device keys (one that the 360 uses and the other that the pc uses)? Because the blacklisting of the HD-DVD drive should make it not work in the 360 either.
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post #100 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

ohh that is quite simple

muslix is full of crap is why.


Really? So nothing has been compromised? Why do we need blacklist the add-on again? Yes, to make those baby cry.


Also, why don't you answer the simple question that who has the device key, the software player or the add-on drive? You spend a lot of time reading AACS,no?

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post #101 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond.g View Post

Because the blacklisting of the HD-DVD drive should make it not work in the 360 either.

According to my understanding, the drive revocation will be a cross platform thing. But I am stupid.

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post #102 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

Really? So nothing has been compromised? Why do we need blacklist the add-on again? Yes, to make those baby cry.


Also, why don't you answer the simple question that who has the device key, the software player or the add-on drive? You spend a lot of time reading AACS,no?


actually we nor the AACS do not

see this entire situation has been hypothetical and nothing else. You know kind of like, if china invades USA war hypothetical.

as for the keys. A "flying Spahgehtti monster" can have the keys. In the end it is irrelevant.

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post #103 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

According to my understanding, the drive revocation will be a cross platform thing. But I am stupid.

as always, you forgot one important thing. Certificate for the drive can be updated also (part of that AACS prelim specs ) and since the drive can be revoked against a PC and not against the Xbox360 (you know part of the Host Revocation List). Drive works in xbox but not pc.

with that said,

read the AACS Specs .91 and understand it.

Once you have understood it, you will know why this little thing by muslix if it actually works is a non-issue at the end.

With that said, I am done with this class.

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post #104 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

as for the keys. Irrelevant to the debate at hand.


Where is the key or who has the device key is irrelevant to the discussion. Sure, blacklist the add-on drive on PC and make everyone who want a reasonable priced HD DVD ROM for PC cry is your top priority. I know where you are coming from and hope everyone does.

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post #105 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

Where is the key or who has the device key is irrelevant to the discussion. Sure, blacklist the add-on drive on PC and make everyone who want a reasonable priced HD DVD ROM for PC cry is your top priority. I know where you are coming from and hope everyone do.

assumptions and terrible one at that.

reasonable priced HD-DVD rom?

Last I checked the PC has nothing for it in regards to HD-DVD rom. The xbox360 HD-DVD player was adapted (please notice the keyword) to it but don't confuse that as it being natively supported on PC.

So in otherwords, I don't feel sorry, have pitty, etc. for anyone that expected this to work from the beginning on a pc, then MS plugs that up and makes it NOT work with PC. It was never intended for that use from the beginning.

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post #106 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:33 AM
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Even if the 360 add on is revoked for use on a PC, there still are the BD drives (albeit >$500 expensive) that have been used on the PC with WinDVD and PowerDVD. People were complaining that there was no HD DVD capability before the 360 add on because the NEC HD DVD ROM drive would not work with either WinDVD or PowerDVD. So if the 360 add on was revoked (and HP and Buffalo HD DVD ROM drives) -- then cracker attention would focus on BD with the PC software players.

This is assuming that keys actually have been uncovered in memory by PC software players -- no proof of this yet! CyberLink has said it was not them -- we need to hear from InterVideo about WinDVD.
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post #107 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

read the AACS Specs .91 and understand it.

You don't even know who has the device key and want others to understand the AACS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

(you know part of the Host Revocation List). Drive works in xbox but not pc.

No, I don't know. Since you have read AACS, why don't you explain it in 2nd grade English? My guess, if the host is revoked, no drive would work on that host including the bluray burner/ROM also.

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post #108 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

as always, you forgot one important thing. Certificate for the drive can be updated also (part of that AACS prelim specs ) and since the drive can be revoked against a PC and not against the Xbox360 (you know part of the Host Revocation List). Drive works in xbox but not pc.

with that said,

read the AACS Specs .91 and understand it.

Once you have understood it, you will know why this little thing by muslix if it actually works is a non-issue at the end.

With that said, I am done with this class.

So AACS would be revoking the players ability to use the drive and not the drive itself. Is there some generic PC Host key? i.e. I built my computer I buy the drive, video card, software to play movies. Where is the HRL in effect?

I don't mean to sound argumentative, I was just looking to be able to understand this situation.

What I gathered:
1. Drive has its own license/revocation system
2. Player has its own license/revocation system
3. Disc (Media) has its own license/revocation system

And you are saying that the drive is the reason the player was or was not hacked, and that it should be revoked.
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post #109 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

assumptions and terrible one at that.

reasonable priced HD-DVD rom?

Last I checked the PC has nothing for it in regards to HD-DVD rom. The xbox360 HD-DVD player was adapted (please notice the keyword) to it but don't confuse that as it being natively supported on PC.

So in otherwords, I don't feel sorry, have pitty, etc. for anyone that expected this to work from the beginning on a pc, then MS plugs that up and makes it NOT work with PC. It was never intended for that use from the beginning.


I thought you are done with the class. The addon is natively supported on PC. Noboday has adapted anything. FUD again? Actually MS intentionally use addon as an excuse to sell cheap HD DVD ROM for PC users. It was intended for that use from the beginning. You just couldn't get over the fact that HD DVD ROM could be bought so cheap compare to the bluray drive. You don't need feel sorry for anything. Because, the addon is supported from day 1 and will always be supported on PC just like any other drive.

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post #110 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond.g View Post

And you are saying that the drive is the reason the player was or was not hacked, and that it should be revoked.

Bingo! That is his FUD from the beginning.

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post #111 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgpsr View Post

Even if the 360 add on is revoked for use on a PC.

My understanding:

If a host is revoked, then no drive will work on that host including the bluray drive.
If a drive is revoked, then that drive will not work on any host.

Figgie is trying to misled people into thinking AACS could revoke the add-on for PC alone without giving any reason why AACS should revoke the drive not the player in the first place. Oh, he gave the reason-FUD that addon was not supposed to be work on PC.

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post #112 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

The addon is natively supported on PC. Noboday has adapted anything. FUD again? Actually MS intentionally use addon as an excuse to sell cheap HD DVD ROM for PC users.

ahh the wave of stupidity ensues.

Really?

Please link us all where Microsoft OFFICIALLY (Press release, Technet article, support documentation, call to Microsoft themselves) says that xbox360 HD-DVD drive is SUPPORTED on the PC platform and not some speculative ******** based on your opinion.

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post #113 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

My understanding:

If a host is revoked, then no drive will work on that host including the bluray drive.
If a drive is revoked, then that drive will not work on any host.

Figgie is trying to misled people into thinking AACS could revoke the add-on for PC alone.


mislead, no.

read the AACS documentation regarding HRL/DRL. those are facts not speculative statements as has been your case so far.

And to help along.

Page 39 (page 51 of 82 when opened in AdobeReader).

enjoy!!

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post #114 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

Really?

MS VP said in this forum in the insider thread that MS did not create any obstacle for the drive to work on PC. Well, sure it is not official, but it just works. When asked why MS could sell the drive so cheap while HP drive would be around $300-400. MS VP said they didn't have to provide any 800-customer support and playback software. Do you have to adapte anything? No, plug and play. Boy, it was smooth. Cry baby?

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post #115 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond.g View Post

And you are saying that the drive is the reason the player was or was not hacked, and that it should be revoked.

The drive?

it could have been a Drive created by Matsushita for the PC. Manufacture is irrelevant and the drive is irrelevant.

It is not more cut and dry than what I am going to write next. If you do not understand this, then I can not help you.

What better way to test the AACS ability, then to DRL/HRL a piece of equipment that was never a PC equipment anyway

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post #116 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

that was never a PC equipment anyway


Let me give you another clue. The addon is a Toshiba SD-S802A drive. Don't cry when you find the same family in the future HP/LiteOn PC drive.

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post #117 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

Well, sure it is not official, but it just works.


See how simple that was.

So do a lot of other items "just" work then stop "just" working.

this remeinds me of when Zenith stopped doing upconvert via component output with the new firmware...history repeating itself again.

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post #118 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

Let me give you another clue. The addon is a Toshiba SD-S802A drive. Don't cry when you find the same family in the future HP/LiteOn PC drive.


sniff sniff...

link me to that drive when ever you get a chance please. For SALE, TODAY.

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post #119 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post

sniff sniff...

link me to that drive when ever you get a chance please. For SALE, TODAY.

Ummm... I have one. I think his clue should have made it clear.

Works fine on a PC, both with XP and Vista. Works with OS X too.

P.S. The drive Xbox 360 drive is officially supported by Cyberlink on Windows PCs.
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post #120 of 603 Old 01-04-2007, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figgie View Post


then stop "just" working.


The add-on will stop working if it is compromised just like any other device/drive/player. However, it will not stop working on PC just because it doesn't sells as a PC drive. That is the FUD you are trying to spread from the beginning. FUD as fear.

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