CES and the Format War--Article - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 185 Old 12-31-2006, 06:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
stevenmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 559
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I don't know about solid data for the PS3 yet, but I think when the year end numbers come in we will see that add-ons for the 360 outnumber standalone HD DVD players by a wide margin.

--Darin

I don't doubt that. I guess my point is that we need those numbers to say anything about it with certainty. The article implies the numbers are already known as fact. You expect that from forum members, but a journalist is held to a higher standard.
stevenmh is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 185 Old 12-31-2006, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
rlsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I don't know about solid data for the PS3 yet, but I think when the year end numbers come in we will see that add-ons for the 360 outnumber standalone HD DVD players by a wide margin.

--Darin

There was an article in Variety claiming that game consoles were being used as players. I can try to find the reference.

Also, there are several polls on the forum that have shown a signficant interest in the PS3 as a player. Look at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768087

for example. The #1 and #2 Blu-ray players shown there are the two models of the PS3, by a wide margin.
rlsmith is offline  
post #33 of 185 Old 12-31-2006, 07:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Innerloop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Marin County, CA
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I thought it was a good article, Robert. It laid out a nice recap of the last 6 months for the casual reader, and make well-reasoned, logical (rather than empassioned) predictions of what is likely to happen. Its hard in this forum to rise above the fray of emotion and rumor to really look at things objectively. The article does a good job of avoiding what people WANT to happen and what evidence points to probably WILL happen.

If either side reads it as biased, I think its more a case of not hearing what you want to hear.

Of course since I am BD-biased I WOULD say that, wouldn't I.

Nice work.
Innerloop is offline  
post #34 of 185 Old 12-31-2006, 09:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jeff Lampert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
rismith,

Having a bias is poison in trying to write objectively. I feel your article showed some bias be leaving out some pro-HD DVD points. But worse than that is that it was just flimsy. You are smart enough and insightful enough to get past your bias. There are loads of fanboys on both sides of the format war, but there are only a few that can be coherent and analytical. An insightful analysis, at least to me, is far more interesting that just some opinions. You're doing yourself a disservice by having a bias and the rest of the enthusiast community is deprived of your potentially salient insights.
Jeff Lampert is offline  
post #35 of 185 Old 12-31-2006, 09:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nataraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: WA
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

There was an article in Variety claiming that game consoles were being used as players. I can try to find the reference.

Without a percentage it doesn't mean squat.

Quote:
The #1 and #2 Blu-ray players shown there are the two models of the PS3, by a wide margin.

If you want to go by AVS polls, more people have bought HD DVD add-on than PS3 for use as HiDef DVD player.
nataraj is offline  
post #36 of 185 Old 12-31-2006, 09:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Paul_Seng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orlando,FL, USA
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If this format war is anything like a real war or even a sporting competition then your analysis is flawed. Things never stay on their current course (as you had written in your conclusion). Both sides need to change strategy to counter the other side. I don't know who'll win but I for one wouldn't count out HD DVD too quickly.

Paul Seng
Paul_Seng is offline  
post #37 of 185 Old 12-31-2006, 10:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lowell, MA
Posts: 1,588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Pretty good article overall. You say outright that HD DVD has been surprising to date and mroe consumer friendly and even state a possible switch of a major studio releasing on HD DVD, more CES releasing HD DVD standalones or even a possible combo player add to this a greater liklihood of a $299 to $399 MSRP HD DVD player but predict blu-ray to win in 2007???
Other than a few more titles to be release in the next month or so, it appears Blu-ray doesn't have any other cards to play in 2007. PS3 has had an impact, but considering players are available on store shelves already, I don't know if it's enough to sustain a blu-ray win. Standalone sales have been very disappointing, wouldn't you agree?
HD DVD hasn't done anything surprising since the Add-on was announced yet media sales appear to still be ahead of blu-ray. If Toshiba and HD DVD do announce another surprise at CES (either another studio, or a $300-400 MSRP player), I think HD DVD will win the war.
Mark0 is offline  
post #38 of 185 Old 12-31-2006, 10:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
Wesley5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

There was an article in Variety claiming that game consoles were being used as players. I can try to find the reference...

Knowing your BR bias before reading your article, I consider it fairly enough on facts, but it's your reasoning I don't agree. Based on the facts you presented and your opinion that Toshiba understands customers better than BR companies, it's very hard to understand how you can make a prediction that BR will win in 2007. If the recent history of HD/BD showed us anything, it showed how foolish so many expert predictions (made before 2006) look today :-)

From a business strategy point of view, Toshiba/MS have executed brilliantly, they anticipated and countered every BR move: shocking BR world with $499 price tag and HDDVD addon against PS3, high vs. poor quality titles, timely customer support. When the dust settles (and especially if HD wins), this will be a must read for every business school student.

As to game consoles were being used as players, of course they are, it's a no brainer to me. However, "It is the attach rate, stupid !" (let me clarify here pre-emptively, no 'pig insult' is intended here, it's a variation of Clinton campaign slogan), for that, we need more data to make any firm conclusions.
Wesley5 is offline  
post #39 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 02:36 AM
Senior Member
 
tsd2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

^
tsd2005,

Thanks for the post.

I am a bit surprised at the amount of credit you are giving Disney for knowing what they are doing. Next to Sony, they seem to have done the poorest job overall in supporting hidef disks.

Up until now, their offerings on BD have been sadly lacking. The best title was "Eight Under", which is nice, but all of us could list all of the titles that would make a difference.

I was quite prepared to buy Cars and Pirates on Blu-ray this Christmas. Disney didn't want to sell them.

Their announcements after the first of the year are more impressive, and in fact suggest a strong commitment to BD in the use of BD50, but still far less than what they could do.

I well remember that Disney launched 2 DVD titles in late 1997, Mary Poppins and something else. They didn't sell, and so Disney decided that DVD was a loser. The MP was filled with mosquito noise, really very poor. Then, after a Divx flirtation, they finally started with DVD in earnest after some analysts pointed out that they had missed the boat by not supporting DVD. Now, the way Disney talks about DVD, you would think they invented it.

If Disney really cared about hidef disks and their future, they would be a) supporting both formats, and b) putting some of their key titles on the line. At least we should have seen Pirates day-and-date for example.

As to your number of 1.5:1, if it is true, I am still not that discouraged. Remember that Blu-ray still has significantly fewer titles in the market. As I pointed out in the article, it is the upcoming scheduled releases that impress me for BD. Of course, if Disney expected something more favorable, then I guess they could be discouraged.

As I stated in the article, I think a key point among the studios may be the "let's get it over with" attitude about the format war. If Disney thinks that supporting HD DVD would just prolong the format war, they will hold off. I think this has been their thought.

Your idea is that the format war is actually over and both will survive. I don't know about that one.

That is just as absurd as Bill Hunt's take, that "just you wait until BD has more players, more PS3s sold, and BETTER TITLES!!!"

HD-DVD is just going to sit there and let it happen?

As for HD-DVD having more titles out... ok, by what 15%? What about BD outnumbering HD-DVD players 3 to 1? Shouldn't that make up for the 15% less titles?

My thoughts on Disney have to do with Bob and his ideas about the formats. It has little to nothing to do with Buena Vista Home Video and how they've treated DVD or BD. It has to do with the guy at the top and his thoughts. He has the right idea, if that right idea can slip thru the cracks and down the totem pole, then we'd all be in a great place.

I think Bob wishes every DVD, BD, or future HD-DVD was treated like their treasure chests and platinum releases.

What amazes me is that the PRO-BD crowd is again chanting "wait," when we were told the same thing Sony was preaching to anyone who would listen: Come November we win! Long live the PS3!" Now that has changed. I don't remember one Pro-BD person on this site who thought that HD-DVD would win December, not one.

Perception is half the battle. I truly believe that MS tested the waters with the Addon, and now that they know that HD-DVD can survive...

I bet that HD-DVD has a lot more up it's sleaves. BDA has shown us their hands. We got the PS3, all the studio support, and all the CE support.

HD-DVD is winning with a lot less. The more they add, the more I'd be worried if I was exclusive to the BDA camp.
tsd2005 is offline  
post #40 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 03:00 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
rlsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsd2005 View Post

That is just as absurd as Bill Hunt's take, that "just you wait until BD has more players, more PS3s sold, and BETTER TITLES!!!"

HD-DVD is just going to sit there and let it happen?

...
As for HD-DVD having more titles out... ok, by what 15%? What about BD outnumbering HD-DVD players 3 to 1? Shouldn't that make up for the 15% less titles?
...
What amazes me is that the PRO-BD crowd is again chanting "wait," when we were told the same thing Sony was preaching to anyone who would listen: Come November we win! Long live the PS3!" Now that has changed. I don't remember one Pro-BD person on this site who thought that HD-DVD would win December, not one.

I don't know the rate at which Blu-ray is gaining but the direction is very clear that Blu-ray is gaining.

As I look at the announced titles for the next several months, it is hard to see Blu-ray not continuing to gain. Just study the list and judge for yourself.

If, as you suggest in one post, MGM, Fox, and Disney (and presumably Sony) all remain exclusive to the end of 2007, the title count will be enormous in Blu-ray's favor.

What will HD DVD do about this?
rlsmith is offline  
post #41 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 03:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RobertR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

I don't know the rate at which Blu-ray is gaining but the direction is very clear that Blu-ray is gaining.

As I look at the announced titles for the next several months, it is hard to see Blu-ray not continuing to gain. Just study the list and judge for yourself.

If, as you suggest in one post, MGM, Fox, and Disney (and presumably Sony) all remain exclusive to the end of 2007, the title count will be enormous in Blu-ray's favor.

What will HD DVD do about this?

BR first needs to catch up and then gain. If it takes them 1.5 million devices to HD DVD's 300,000K and are pulling even or even still trailing in software sales, it's scary. A studio simply has to think "what would happen if it was other way around? would HD DVD hit home with a lot more people and would we sell a lot more discs?" The low attach rate of BR is and very well should be alarming to a studio exec.

This is all assuming that the HDDVD camp simply does not try to pull studio or CE support. The corporate policits involved in this war are something we'll likely never learn about. However, they will mold each format greatly.

In one of your posts you made the "too expensive" comment in reference to Denon. You're absolutely right. All the BR players are too expensive for Joe Q and even the HD DVD players. As long as the content fight is going on, the race to the $249 HD player will be the one that could possibly attract the masses. No one I know is willing to pay $399+ for a HD player and these are people with good incomes but what I'd consider the mass consumer. Just because people have the money doesn't mean they wanna spend it on expensive Hi Def players.

Content cost is another factor. For most, they cannot justify $30-40 discs at best buy for a PQ increase they might or might not notice. As for audio, anyone outside of a $2000+ 5.1 system isn't going to get much. So really, we're left with PQ which NEEDS to have the "wow!" factor of HD football or Discovery HD. Grain, while loved on here, is frowned up by the masses. They want a very clear, clean, 3D look. That is their idea of "HD" Good luck convincing them otherwise.

When people come and check out my setup, they all love HD DVD. I really mean that. However when they ask me about it, I simply give them the present day situation which is:

Player cost, media cost and a format war. All 3 combined are the perfect storm to turn back the masses. So really, if these formats stay niche and never take off, both sides deserve it.
RobertR1 is online now  
post #42 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 03:17 AM
Senior Member
 
DanielTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
How about the porn switching to HD DVD ?
http://adult.dvdempire.com/v2_index2...ite_media_id=0
DanielTS is offline  
post #43 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 03:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Apollo 13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ohio
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
$50 for porn? screw that...I don't think anyone would pay that much money for 1 porn movie unless they are a big pervert.
Apollo 13 is offline  
post #44 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 04:25 AM
Senior Member
 
DanielTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
DanielTS is offline  
post #45 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 06:05 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Kosty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North East USA
Posts: 14,683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post

Your article fails to mention some very significant points that should not be overlooked, such as:

* That the majority of PS3 owners bought the PS3 for games, not movies
* That ALL X360 HD DVD add-on owners are soley for HD DVD movies
* That Toshiba HD DVD players sell out as quickly as they can stock them
* Does not note that Blu-Ray disc sales have always lagged behind HD DVD
* Did not mention the In-Movie-Experience and U-Control that is winning HD DVD fans
* Failed to underscore that though Blu-Ray has been improving, HD DVD has been consistently better and has won High-Def Digest's Best Of 2006 list
* Did not note that although BD50 discs have begun shipping, they have yet to prove to be any better than HD30 since PQ still lags behind or, at best, only matches HD DVD

Despite Blu-Ray's specs and improvements, HD DVD has the momentum behind it that shows no signs whatsoever of slowing down.

Nice article, but I agree you missed some signifcant points facoring HD DVD. Some of these points tend to negate Blu-ray's largest asset, the studio support, because they will give studios pause.

Besides TSD's posts which include some points you missed, Midnight's comments above are the major items you missed.

HD DVD has shown huge attach rates which implies customer satisfaction and has sold almost all the players manufactured. Those factors have probably not be lost on studios. The PS3 production and thus sales has been slower than expected and has not delivered a knock out blow to HD DVD over the critical holiday season. The Xbox 360 HD DVD addon was not even considered by most analysts last year.

In short, the longer HD DVD survives the more likely its costs will go down to consumer friendly mass adoption levels.

I have said before that street prices of $19.99 for software and $199 for hardware are the critical adoption points. HD DVD is looking better and better at reaching those points before Blu-ray does, and even before the PS3 itself reaches those price points.

But overall, I liked the article and I think you tried to be fair, but the adoption rates and XBox 360 HD sales were the more significant omissions.

.
"A lot of good arguments are spoiled by some fool who knows what he is talking about." - Miguel de Unamuno


follow me on Twitter
Kosty is offline  
post #46 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 06:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
sknight1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wadsworth, OH
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsd2005 View Post

As for HD-DVD having more titles out... ok, by what 15%? What about BD outnumbering HD-DVD players 3 to 1? Shouldn't that make up for the 15% less titles?


According to The DVD Wars there are 168 Blu-ray titles versus 163 HD DVD titles that can be purchased today. Ergo, I don't think the BDA can use the lack of titles as a reason for lackluster sales.

Beer. So much more than just a breakfast drink!
sknight1 is offline  
post #47 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 06:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ILJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 1,435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

As to your number of 1.5:1, if it is true, I am still not that discouraged. Remember that Blu-ray still has significantly fewer titles in the market.




Significantly fewer? BD has 168 titles that can be purchased today, and HD-DVD has 163 (according to DVD Wars). HD-DVD has 148 that can acutally ship, BD has 128. How are either of these "significantly fewer?"

*************************************************

Still looking for a movie theatre that shows movies the way they're SUPPOSED to be viewed...



...with a bitrate meter and screencaps.
ILJG is offline  
post #48 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 07:14 AM
Senior Member
 
DanielTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
A French received his 200th HD DVD several days ago.
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/v...4020#170393521
DanielTS is offline  
post #49 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 08:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 4,355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 103
I thought the article was very fair considering the bias. There were a couple of rather obvious omissions though - no mention of price for the stand alone BD players, only the PS3 and no mention of software sales even though most of the studios support BD at the moment. The article would have appeared less biased if you have asked another question, being - how is it that with many more companies making BD players and much more studio support BD software sales are not beating HD DVD software sales to a pulp? You also state as a fact that Toshiba is subsidizing their players, but don't confirm this with references. The "subsidization" may be true, but you need to be able to support this as a fact, not just throw it out there as fact. If you can't support this as fact then why should we believe you on this point and if not on this point then why on any and every other point in the article? If you lack credibility on one point you then compromise every other point (whether accurate or not) and your entire thesis stands to be impugned.

As far as BD supporters go you are by far one of the fairest and your primary interest appears to be the attainment of the best quality PQ and AQ possible, unlike many here, who seem to me, to be on a religious crusade.

I suspect that its not what we know, but rather what we don't know that's going to win this war.

Cheers,

Grant
Deja Vu is online now  
post #50 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 10:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
d3code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

* majority bought the ps3 for games only?

----> what about bought ps3 for games and movies? like most of us do. most people who like games also like movies. they present the largest install base on this planet!

* That ALL X360 HD DVD add-on owners are soley for HD DVD movies

----> so far i agree, but i am still hoping it will be used for games as well

* That Toshiba HD DVD players sell out as quickly as they can stock them

----> true but how many units does every store get? 1,2 ? 1000?

* Does not note that Blu-Ray disc sales have always lagged behind HD DVD

-----> based on what? amazon rankings???? looooooooooooooool

* Did not mention the In-Movie-Experience and U-Control that is winning HD DVD fans

-----> is that so? how many people buy a HD-MOVIE just for U-control or IME?
i bet if picure quality and audio quality would be bad, people wouldnt care at all. that said, i agree it helps in overall value of the disc and experience.

* Failed to underscore that though Blu-Ray has been improving, HD DVD has been consistently better and has won High-Def Digest's Best Of 2006 list.

----------> HD-DVD consistenly better? i have 52 titles now on HD-DVD but some are real stinkers. just like bluray has titles that are bad as well. but i agree HD-DVD has the top teir title PQ wise with the Hulk. but not consistently putting movies out with that quality. which ofcourse is impossible too ,if you have a bad master.

* Did not note that although BD50 discs have begun shipping, they have yet to prove to be any better than HD30 since PQ still lags behind or, at best, only matches HD DVD

----------> you dont answer it complete. what about better audio? bluray has much more loss less audio tracks then HD-DVd at this moment. if King Kong would be released on bluray because of 50GB could have had a LPCM track or DTS-MA track on it. while on HD-DVd King Kong only has a DD+ track because of the 30gb limitation.

so in other words size does matter. specially for larger movies. and that doesnt always have to do with PQ, but AQ as well.
d3code is offline  
post #51 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 10:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nataraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: WA
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3code View Post

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

* majority bought the ps3 for games only?

----> what about bought ps3 for games and movies? like most of us do. most people who like games also like movies. they present the largest install base on this planet!

Yes, but what attach rates ? People only have limited money to spend on entertainment - when they buy games, thats money going away from movies.

Quote:


* Does not note that Blu-Ray disc sales have always lagged behind HD DVD

-----> based on what? amazon rankings???? looooooooooooooool

Multiple sources, including CED.

Quote:


----------> you dont answer it complete. what about better audio? bluray has much more loss less audio tracks then HD-DVd at this moment.

How many can recognize lossless vs dd+ in db test ? Anyway, marketability of better audio has been laid to rest with sacd/dvd-a.
nataraj is offline  
post #52 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 10:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
theforce8686's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If companies like Disney and Fox chose BD from the start, why would they switch 2 months in and while both HD and BD have only around 200,00o stand alone players. It just seems premature to switch 2 minutes into the game.

And for the record, even though I support BD i didnt think they would be able to take the lead in December as at the time their were still too few titles, and HD had to big of a lead. When there is a winner in this war its not happening overnight.
theforce8686 is offline  
post #53 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 10:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
fa8362's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

If companies like Disney and Fox chose BD from the start, why would they switch 2 months in and while both HD and BD have only around 200,00o stand alone players. It just seems premature to switch 2 minutes into the game.

They won't. Don't believe anything you read, unless it comes directly (not indirectly from a fanboy or "reporter") from a studio executive in a press release.
fa8362 is offline  
post #54 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 10:57 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
trbarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Gainesville FL USA
Posts: 10,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

They won't. Don't believe anything you read, unless it comes directly (not indirectly from a fanboy or "reporter") from a studio executive in a press release.

When did that become a credible source?

- Tom

Why don't we power our electric cars from greener, cheaper Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors?

Tom Barry - Find my video filters at www.trbarry.com
trbarry is offline  
post #55 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 10:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nataraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: WA
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

They won't. Don't believe anything you read, unless it comes directly (not indirectly from a fanboy or "reporter") from a studio executive in a press release.

Sure I'll follow your advice and not believe what you just wrote
nataraj is offline  
post #56 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 11:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ADGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILJG View Post



Significantly fewer? BD has 168 titles that can be purchased today, and HD-DVD has 163 (according to DVD Wars). HD-DVD has 148 that can acutally ship, BD has 128. How are either of these "significantly fewer?"

What did these numbers look like two months ago?
ADGrant is offline  
post #57 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 12:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ottscay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Good article RLSmith.

For those of you saying his bias is negatively impacting the article, reread it without the last sentence or two. The article is dead on, and to think otherwise is to have drunk the HD DVD/AVS coolaid. HD DVD HAS performed much better on their strategy, but their strategy is (and has always been) from a point of weakness in the war. The BDA strategy has been poorly executed, but has far more guns. This will likely show at CES, and I am very much interested in year end numbers, because they won't be anything like what fanboys here are expecting (remember that 11:1 hype that was being touted in the same month when Toshiba said it was 3:1? and even thedvedwars.com has shown that BDs have closed the gap almost entirely, despite fewer releases and the fact that Amazon's not exactly the most accurate tracker of sales).

Be a Reality fanboy.
ottscay is offline  
post #58 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 12:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Michael Mullis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Abingdon, MD
Posts: 3,743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


I bet that HD-DVD has a lot more up it's sleaves. BDA has shown us their hands. We got the PS3, all the studio support, and all the CE support.

HD-DVD is winning with a lot less. The more they add, the more I'd be worried if I was exclusive to the BDA camp.

People are glossing over these two points without really realizing right now how this truely hurts the BDA. The big problem the BDA will continue to have is that the public isn't going to mass buy into these formats yet, and are still content to buy regular DVDs. That is going to make it vastly more difficult for Blu-ray to "catch up". And thus, why studios who are exclusive to one format or the other are going to have to go neutral at some point to broaden their audience to make more money on their titles.

If HD DVD titles continues to sell while Blu-ray titles don't, it isn't going to take much longer before Disney and Fox start to wonder why they aren't supporting the better selling format.


And do the Blu-ray supporters really believe that Toshiba has been simply content to sit on the sidelines now and do nothing? Does anyone think they aren't looking at the Blu-ray release list and forming a counter to it? Universal is just sitting around thinking You, Me, and Dupree is the counter to Fox? They got to see what Fox is releasing, and I'm hoping they are now going through their catalog for their next push.

The BDA had no choice for to push it's exclusive studios to blow a big wad of release dates. They have to start gaining some sort of traction in the market. If it was the other way around, Universal might have done the same thing.
Michael Mullis is offline  
post #59 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 12:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
theforce8686's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

People are glossing over these two points without really realizing right now how this truely hurts the BDA. The big problem the BDA will continue to have is that the public isn't going to mass buy into these formats yet, and are still content to buy regular DVDs. That is going to make it vastly more difficult for Blu-ray to "catch up". And thus, why studios who are exclusive to one format or the other are going to have to go neutral at some point to broaden their audience to make more money on their titles.

If HD DVD titles continues to sell while Blu-ray titles don't, it isn't going to take much longer before Disney and Fox start to wonder why they aren't supporting the better selling format.


And do the Blu-ray supporters really believe that Toshiba has been simply content to sit on the sidelines now and do nothing? Does anyone think they aren't looking at the Blu-ray release list and forming a counter to it? Universal is just sitting around thinking You, Me, and Dupree is the counter to Fox? They got to see what Fox is releasing, and I'm hoping they are now going through their catalog for their next push.

The BDA had no choice for to push it's exclusive studios to blow a big wad of release dates. They have to start gaining some sort of traction in the market. If it was the other way around, Universal might have done the same thing.

The thing is that Fox, Disney, Sony and Lionsgate can keep pushing as they combined easily have many many more titles and especially over the last decade have produced more note worthy titles that have made a lot more money in ticket and DVD sales. If they want to support BD the nUniversal can only hold on for so long on its own and they will have to fold a lot quicker than the oher companies do. That is an easier end to the war. If universal folds then HD dies and we have 1 new High Def format and that is what people will buy. Some people might be angry but they will deal with it. Im rooting for BD but if HD wins I say "Oh Well" and buy into HD. Im a movie fan first and foremost.
theforce8686 is offline  
post #60 of 185 Old 01-01-2007, 01:18 PM
 
DTV TiVo Dealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scarsdale, NY
Posts: 4,878
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3code View Post

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

* That Toshiba HD DVD players sell out as quickly as they can stock them

----> true but how many units does every store get? 1,2 ? 1000?

Some retailers get in and sell out thousands. And I would assume I am not the only dealer who does a very high volume of HD DVD player sales.

The Gen 1 and Gen 2 player sales have been very strong and steady.

-Robert
DTV TiVo Dealer is offline  
Reply HDTV Software Media Discussion

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off