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post #1 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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We have received a request for a Format Neutral Forum: a place where we can avoid the format war and have a friendly discussion on the HD Optical disc, and related issues, without the bashing, spamming, and trolling that seem to accompany many threads

We cannot start another forum, but let's use this thread for Forum Neutral posts

Oh: let's keep it peaceful please

edit: sorry I must add: Please no inappropriate or bashing posts: or you will lose your posting privileges
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post #2 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:11 AM
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This may turn out to be a very good thread. I just want to say that I did choose ones side based on movie selection at that time, but now need to support both sides because there are just to many movies from each side that I want. I am still trying to figure out if two stand alones or the dual player is right for me.

In my opinion reglards as to what side someone started on most movie lovers would be missing out if they stuck with 1 format for all of 2007. It looks like both sides will be around for a long time.

I have the A1 right now. What is the best way in your opinion to support both formats? Taking into account good PQ and SQ at the cheapest price.
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post #3 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

This may turn out to be a very good thread. I just want to say that I did choose ones side based on movie selection at that time, but now need to support both sides because there are just to many movies from each side that I want. I am still trying to figure out if two stand alones or the dual player is right for me.

In my opinion reglards as to what side someone started on most movie lovers would be missing out if they stuck with 1 format for all of 2007. It looks like both sides will be around for a long time.

I have the A1 right now. What is the best way in your opinion to support both formats? Taking into account good PQ and SQ at the cheapest price.

Even though I don't like the idea of the PS3 as a basic player (no IR support, among other things), I personally feel the best solution for dual format goodness is the Toshiba HD-A2 + PS3 at the moment.

The LG combo player costs too much, and is not fully HD DVD compliant (and it's not out yet).

I personally will stick with my $170 HD DVD 360 add-on drive for the time being, and will watch with interest how this war plays out in the coming year.
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post #4 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:19 AM
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Although I think of myself as format neutral, I only have an HD-DVD right now (A1). That is based mostly on the cost of the BR players. I am very interested in purchasing a PS3 for BR playback though, but with all this "chatter" about dual format discs and players at CES I am not sure what to do. I can't afford a player over $600 (that is even pushing it) at the moment, as we are about 3 days away from our second baby. If there is no revelations about new BR players or affordable (to me) neutral players, I can see me getting a PS3 very soon. KOH here I come!

Cheers

Them: I could hardly tell the difference between HiDef and standard definition on my 27" LCD...
Me: Hmmmmm, wonder why that is... (sarcasm)
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post #5 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
I have the A1 right now. What is the best way in your opinion to support both formats? Taking into account good PQ and SQ at the cheapest price.

I'm in the same boat, got the TOS HD-A1 form CC Airlines deal for 349.99 back in August 06. The plan is go with a PS3 for 600 bringing my total to 950.00 to become format neutral.
I hear the PS3 is a descent BD player provided you don't get one that runs loud and overheats. The plan is to pick one up at COSTCO within the next month so if I run into some problems I can just return it no questions asks and maybe go with a stand alone.

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post #6 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:22 AM
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Finally a place to hide from all the insanity out there... Thank you Mark!
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post #7 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

Although I think of myself as format neutral, I only have an HD-DVD right now (A1). That is based mostly on the cost of the BR players. I am very interested in purchasing a PS3 for BR playback though, but with all this "chatter" about dual format discs and players at CES I am not sure what to do. I can't afford a player over $600 (that is even pushing it) at the moment, as we are about 3 days away from our second baby. If there is no revelations about new BR players or affordable (to me) neutral players, I can see me getting a PS3 very soon. KOH here I come!

With the new baby, you're not gonna have time to watch all those movies!

Note that you don't have to get the more expensive PS3 for watching movies, so it's $500 (plus the cost of the remote).

I will note that there is a thread about artifacts for Blu-ray MPEG2 discs played on the PS3, but I suspect that is probably a problem with the discs themselves and not the PS3.

It's just too bad that Blu-ray doesn't have a comparable lower cost standalone. It will be interesting however to see the price at which the new Samsung streets.
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post #8 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:27 AM
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Finally! A shelter from the rampant fanboyism in both forums. I own a HD-XA2 and a PS3, they're both great. I wish Universal would pony up and start releasing some of the big boys, as the BDA is definitely stepping up to the plate with their big hitters.

I honestly couldn't care who wins this format war, I just want qualtiy. I don't care which format it's on, as long as it's a good transfer with excellent audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA or LPCM, I don't care!) The forums have become frustratingly filled with fanboys and tons of disinformation. It's like a bunch of elementary school kids arguing if the transformers are real or not.

Hopefully we get some great releases on both formats. Competition has been great for both sides and I believe the winner is the consumer.
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post #9 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

Even though I don't like the idea of the PS3 as a basic player (no IR support, among other things), I personally feel the best solution for dual format goodness is the Toshiba HD-A2 + PS3 at the moment.

I dont want to give up the sound quality. For me that solution comprimises to much. In order to avoid a analog switcher and get the support for PCM, TruHD and DD+ I think the combo is the answer.
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post #10 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

With the new baby, you're not gonna have time to watch all those movies!

Note that you don't have to get the more expensive PS3 for watching movies, so it's $500 (plus the cost of the remote).

I will note that there is a thread about artifacts for Blu-ray MPEG2 discs played on the PS3, but I suspect that is probably a problem with the discs themselves and not the PS3.

Yeah, movie watching time is going to be reduced significantly over the next few months, but well worth it (boy number 2).

What are the disadvantages of going with the cheaper PS3? The salesman from BB was saying that the more expensive one comes with the approopriate cable for the HD output, whereas the cheaper one does not. The cable is apparently quite expensive.

Thanks again Bugs

Them: I could hardly tell the difference between HiDef and standard definition on my 27" LCD...
Me: Hmmmmm, wonder why that is... (sarcasm)
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post #11 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

Yeah, movie watching time is going to be reduced significantly over the next few months, but well worth it (boy number 2).

What are the disadvantages of going with the cheaper PS3? The salesman from BB was saying that the more expensive one comes with the approopriate cable for the HD output, whereas the cheaper one does not. The cable is apparently quite expensive.

Thanks again Bugs

Neither machines come with an HDMI cable.
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post #12 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I own a Sony BDP-S1 and a Toshiba XA-2

I think both are capable of comparable performance although this will be argued forever: I bought both because I want the widest range of titles

I am thrilled with the PQ of many of the HD titles: from both formats
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post #13 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:34 AM
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Thank you for this thread as the bickering, fanboyism, and the troll accusations had me looking for a new board to discuss the formats (although i'm sure the other boards are filled with it also).

I own both the A1 and the PS3. Both players and both formats have thier strengths and weaknesses and I do slightly prefer one over the other but all I want to see is good movies come out on both. I'm eagerly awaiting Casino Royale, The Matrix Trilogy, and a few others.
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post #14 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:34 AM
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Agree with a lot of comments in this thread

A1 owner since May, bought a 360 drive at release and am waiting for my PS3 to come in on Wednesday from Best Buy.com

The new list of Fox and Disney movies this morning shows that I really need to have both formats. I just hope that they either side of the spectrum stays away from releasing bare bones disks just to say "Hey, here's another quality release on BD/HD!!".
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post #15 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

Neither machines come with an HDMI cable.

If there is no difference in the hardware (besides the gaming side and the 60GB hard drive), I will just go with the 20GB version.

Thanks again!

Them: I could hardly tell the difference between HiDef and standard definition on my 27" LCD...
Me: Hmmmmm, wonder why that is... (sarcasm)
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post #16 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:37 AM
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Feature Basic Premium
Upgradeable hard drive Yes, 20 GB Yes, 60 GB
Blu-ray drive Yes Yes
HDMI port Yes Yes
Bluetooth controller Yes Yes
Chrome trim No Yes
Built-in Wi-Fi No Yes
Flash card readers No Yes

ie. The cheaper model has the smaller hard drive (which is user replaceable anyway), and no WiFi.

P.S. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the PS3 supports 720p movie playback from a standard 1080p movie, while it works fine on most standalones. It shouldn't matter though to the vast majority of people out there though, since 1080i playback should be fine from the PS3, and basically all HD TVs support 1080i (even though 720p might be slightly better on some).
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post #17 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:37 AM
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I don't care who wins, as long as the winner has great video & audio at the lowest price. My PJ is a 480P unit and I will not upgrade to a 1080P for a year, so I hope there is a winner by then. Until then I will still be using SD DVD's.

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2.35 AR is suppose to be bigger than 1.78 AR not smaller!
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post #18 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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post #19 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

P.S. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the PS3 supports 720p movie playback from a standard 1080p movie, while it works fine on most standalones. It shouldn't matter though to the vast majority of people out there though, since 1080i playback should be fine from the PS3, and basically all HD TVs support 1080i (even though 720p might be slightly better on some).

I just checked out CNet and you are correct. My Sanyo Z4 should be fine projecting movies at 1080i. Its a shame that I won't get advanced audio codecs but in my price range I can't get picky.

Them: I could hardly tell the difference between HiDef and standard definition on my 27" LCD...
Me: Hmmmmm, wonder why that is... (sarcasm)
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post #20 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

Yeah, movie watching time is going to be reduced significantly over the next few months, but well worth it (boy number 2).

What are the disadvantages of going with the cheaper PS3? The salesman from BB was saying that the more expensive one comes with the approopriate cable for the HD output, whereas the cheaper one does not. The cable is apparently quite expensive.

Thanks again Bugs

The only disadvantages is a 20 gig drive, no card readers and no built in wireless. Personally I was on the fence on which one to get but the wireless is what did it for me. One less cable to have is always a big positive for me.

If you go here you can get a PS3 60 from Sony for $499

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/_3Cw..._sonycardoffer

Also spring for a remote it works very well. You can get a cheap HDMI cable for 15-50 bucks. The guys is wrong regarding cables included. They both have HDMI ports...
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post #21 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 08:58 AM
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Great thread !

I am really tired of all those supporting one "side" and bashing each other on all forums. After all it is not two footballteams competing. But I can understand that people are confused and not wanting to be on the "loosing" side with expensive equipment that has rapidly become obsolete. Like Betamaxowners back in the 80's.

On the other hand, is it so much different than being an owner of a PC with a 66 MHz CPU, 200 MB harddrive and so on, bought in the early 90's for about $2000 ? I have heard noone complain about their expensive computers becoming more or less obsolete as technical progress has raced ahead.

The PS3 seems to be a nice player according to two reviews that I've read. I could afford it today, and use it solely as movieplayer. I am NOT into gaming. Technically both formats seem so equal that any differences have to be detected in the electron microscope... for me the most important issue is content, and so far I have seen very little. Only a handful of the currently released HD titles of any format are really worth getting according to my taste. BD seems to have an advantage in more studios supporting, but I don't know, that might still change.

Heck, I don't even have a HD display if you consider only 1080p being "real" HD. I hope to be able to trim my CRT pj to do 1080i at least.

I'll wait, but the announcement of Blade runner in HD this year might be the trigger for me...

Thomas
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post #22 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

We have received a request for a Format Neutral Forum: a place where we can avoid the format war and have a friendly discussion on the HD Optical disc, and related issues, without the bashing, spamming, and trolling that seem to accompany many threads

We cannot start another forum, but let's use this thread for Forum Neutral posts

Oh: let's keep it peaceful please

Next request is to kindly ask ALL "Insiders" to refrain from posting in this thread ?? I would seem to be logical request that a purely "Enthusiast" thread would be helpful and there are other threads that "Insiders" can voice their views rather than this one.

I have lots of questions about Hollywood's commitment to HD on "shiny disc" that I would like to hear from other AVS members about that has nothing to do with "format".

Does this request seem possible ??

I will even "disable" my sig as a show of good faith...

b2b

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A Toshiba spokesman, said that "from an engineer's point of view, the Blu-ray is a masterpiece.."
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post #23 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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As consumers, one format would have been ideal out of the gate. Well, that didn't happen. With both formats pretty firmly entrenched, the best way to handle it all is to have a player for each format, IMO. It really is about content when all is said and done. Many hold out hope for one format to prevail. I don't see that happening anytime soon. I really cringe when I think about reading a 'thumb's up' high def review of a movie like 'Casino Royale' on BD and can't enjoy it because I 'happen' to support/prefer HD DVD. That's just silly. As far as a combo player, personally, I can't see myself buying anything with 'LG' on its face. A combo player from Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo......yea!
I remember back in the late 70's when I had my first Marantz amp(30w per/ch) composite hooked up to a JVC cassette player powering TWO JBL bookshelf speakers. I was A LOT less stressed and pretty happy, if I recall.

It's gotten outta' hand nowadays...
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post #24 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 09:50 AM
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Good idea for a thread - the "battle thread" is a bit no-holds-barred...
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post #25 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

I agree with that 100%. I hope this rule can be put in place.

Oh and don't let my sig fool you either. I may start a similar thread for HD DVD once I get more titles.

Can we get a "show of hands" for a "Enthusiast Only" thread ....

I vote "aye"

b2b

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post #26 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 10:00 AM
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Thank you for this thread! My ignore list was growing by leaps and bounds in the last month.

Now for a first question. For movies being released in both formats, how are you deciding which one to by? Price? Best review? Preferance? I had been leaning toward HD DVD because of PQ issues early on by BD, but now I can't tell the difference. Right now I can't support advanced audio, but when I purchase a new receiver some time this year I will most likely get the BD versions since I use a PS3 for BD playback and the 360 drive for HD DVD (no advanced audio support).

Congrats to all who have decided to enjoy HD in both formats! I have a feeling we will be buying both formats for quite a while.

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Simple. Clean. information about high definition
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post #27 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by b2bonez
Next request is to kindly ask ALL "Insiders" to refrain from posting in this thread ?? I would seem to be logical request that a purely "Enthusiast" thread would be helpful and there are other threads that "Insiders" can voice their views rather than this one.

I agree with Insiders refraining as well. With due respect b2b, why are you inclined to post in this thread or read the posts here??? I understand you do not have ANY high def player, so you could use that as format neutrality. But in reading/browsing your post history in this section of the forum, it's more than obvious that you are FAR from format neutral. I have no desire to 'start' anything, but am simply asking for an explanation b2b as to your format neutrality mentality based on hundreds of previous posts that paint one format in a lesser light than another? It would be appreciated. Thanks.
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post #28 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 10:04 AM
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I am cool with no insiders...they aren't neutral (most) and usually spark the type of discussions we are trying to avoide by posting in this thread. Maybe they will be cool and just stay away.

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post #29 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I think everyone should be welcome as long as their posts are format neutral: OK?

If you see a problem, report the post to a mod for action

Thank you
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post #30 of 336 Old 01-08-2007, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150zx View Post

Originally Posted by b2bonez
Next request is to kindly ask ALL "Insiders" to refrain from posting in this thread ?? I would seem to be logical request that a purely "Enthusiast" thread would be helpful and there are other threads that "Insiders" can voice their views rather than this one.

I agree with Insiders refraining as well. With due respect b2b, why are you inclined to post in this thread or read the posts here??? I understand you do not have ANY high def player, so you could use that as format neutrality. But in reading/browsing your post history in this section of the forum, it's more than obvious that you are FAR from format neutral. I have no desire to 'start' anything, but am simply asking for an explanation b2b as to your format neutrality mentality based on hundreds of previous posts that paint one format in a lesser light than another? It would be appreciated. Thanks.

Well, I'm not really format neutral either, as I only own an HD DVD player. (I was considering a PS3 in Q2 2007, but it's not suitable for my TV for gaming, since it lacks the ability to scale up from 720p to 1080i.) Do you really want a thread limited only to people who paid $1000+ on players? I'll go neutral once prices on standalones decrease.

Also, I'm not entirely sure why the insiders must be excluded, as long as they can keep things civil.

But that's just me.

EDIT:

Oops. Question about thread exclusivity already answered by the mods. This site is so slow right now...
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