Whose Really holding us hostage? - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by onanie View Post

My post was in relation to Microsoft's motives, and I did not directly question the benefits of competition.

If you wish to say that Microsoft had entered the format war for the sake of competition, then I argue that "competition" has outlived its usefulness - it is only hampering progress now. What's more, competition need not exist inter-formats. It already exists among the studios and CE companies - or intra-format. Think initial Sony releases vs Warner's. Why have another layer of competition that is only going to deter consumers, and increase costs for everyone involved?

Having said all that, I do not think the noble concept of spurring competition was the motivation - not the kind of competition that is good for consumers anyway.

What I am saying is that if HD DVD did not exist we would be wallowing in substandard high def optical media. Whether MS chose to enter the frey is beside the point they did.

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post #302 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:14 PM
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It would appear on the surface that their decision to support HD DVD was completely arbitrary, wouldn't it?

no
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post #303 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:17 PM
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What I am saying is that if HD DVD did not exist we would be wallowing in substandard high def optical media. Whether MS chose to enter the frey is beside the point they did.

and if BD did not exist HD DVD would have been much worst
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post #304 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

and if BD did not exist HD DVD would have been much worst

How so? HD-DVD launched first, and initial releases were well reviewed for their high level of quality, while early BD releases.............
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post #305 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

and if BD did not exist HD DVD would have been much worst

How would it be worse? I have great PQ and AQ and functional interactivity and online upgrades as well as hard media upgrades from the get go. Tell me why I should invest in BD at this point. Announced titles? I will wait and see how interactive those titles will be.

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post #306 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:35 PM
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It is so strange to read you all guessing as to our motives here when I am here and could answer your questions. I guess posing theories on your own and believing them must be more fun. So I let you all be.

Then again this is usually a sign of too little real news to discuss. Someone should manufacture something soon....

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post #307 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

It is so strange to read you all guessing as to our motives here when I am here and could answer your questions. I guess posing theories on your own and believing them must be more fun. So I let you all be.

Then again this is usually a sign of too little real news to discuss. Someone should manufacture something soon....

Well, we want the real answer
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post #308 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by onanie View Post

Well, we want the real answer

Shoot, I would not reach double digit post count if I had to obey such rules.

"I want the truth... But you can't stand the truth..." ...A few Good Men

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post #309 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

I dont think there in catch up mode anymore. I think theyve passed them. There have been nothing but very good and great tranfers for quite some time now. And Ive seen plenty of threads where people who run this site have been complaining about the PQ of many of the latest HD releases.

Care to comment on the rumor that Sony is subing the studios (both exclusive and neutral) on the BD 50 production? Will all the new BD releases be in 50's and if not how many will be? All uncompressed audio?

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post #310 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Shoot, I would not reach double digit post count if I had to obey such rules.

"I want the truth... But you can't stand the truth..." ...A few Good Men

LOL

I love the quote in "The Big Hit" as well.
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post #311 of 322 Old 01-22-2007, 09:58 PM
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How so?

Toshiba and Warner were initially pushing for red laser HD disks (i.e. DVD+new encryption+ new codec). Imagine what your movies would have been if they were 10GB (with extras) instead of 30GB (with extras). The blue laser HD DVD came up because they new that there was no way it could compete. That is when they came out with SL blue HD DVD with new codecs. When BD added 50GB to the specs HD DVD was forced to add DL as well so it became a 30GB format.
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post #312 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

But you are not taking into account that the Playstation 3 is a video game system primarily, not a Blu-ray standalone player primarily. Forget all the people screaming "Websters Dictionary says...........".

Because it's a video game system first, Sony looks to recoup the losses on the system through game sales, just like it did with the Playstation and Playstation 2. Just as all game console manufacturers do. I can not remember a game console that sold at a profit out of the gate. That's why the PS3 is $499-$599. But those losses right now are so big per console that any drop in price will send Sony diving pretty deep into losses on the SCEA division. Those kind of losses and a lack of sales of software killed many a system, including my still-darling Sega Dreamcast.

Standalone CE's aren't going to sell their products for a loss because they have no way or recouping the cost unless studios decide to try and subsidize a portion of each player to a CE. I don't see any of them doing that. So all lowering cost is going to do is accellerate their own losses per unit sold. And with Sony losing money on the PS3 I don't see them having any to divert to Samsung and co. So those players will have to remain well outside of mainstream consumer pricing until the technology comes down, which the BDA doesn't think can happen for a good while.

Actually, both the SNES and Wii were/are sold at a profit out of the gate.

I imagine that the price drops for BD players will happen at roughly the same rate as DVD. No problem there. Neither format will replace DVD for years. Its a niche market and will be for at least 2-3 years.

People think the general public will care about $199 HD DVD players, but why should they? There are high quality $50 DVD players sitting around. Where's the impetus? (maybe high quality at $50 is a stretch..but you get the point)

Also, why would CEs want to switch to HD DVD when they'll already be undercut on price by those same cheap Chinese players that cut deeply into the traditional CEs profits with DVD. Cheap discs, imo, are more important than cheap players, and right now the price difference between BD and HD DVD isn't much...couple bucks or less on amazon or maybe 5 dollars at Best Buy. Unless you're talking about the absurd HD DVD/DVD combos that I wouldn't recommend to anyone and are atrociously expensive at a B&M store. Gotta keep in mind, Joe Blow won't necessarily even be internet savvy enough to use Amazon.
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post #313 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 06:31 AM
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Isn't a signifcant reason for the format war is that the opposing camps want to collect licensing fees as the patent holders of the "winning" disc technology? They both probably saw Phillips collecting $$$ for all those years from CD discs and they want a slice of that pie.
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post #314 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 01:23 PM
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Licensing fees are in there somewhere. DRM's in there too, I think--at least at a subconscious level.

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post #315 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 06:27 PM
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What will happen to all the HD DVD owners if Blue-Ray wins? Will we be able to play our disks on a blue ray player?
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post #316 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

What will happen to all the HD DVD owners if Blue-Ray wins? Will we be able to play our disks on a blue ray player?

Combo HD DVD discs definitely play in a blu-ray player! So you are pretty safe with those discs regardless. The reverse is of course not true for BD. So better rent those discs if you are worried .

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post #317 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Combo HD DVD discs definitely play in a blu-ray player! So you are pretty safe with those discs regardless. The reverse is of course not true for BD. So better rent those discs if you are worried .

Sweet, I'm glad all the HD-DVD discs are combo disc
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post #318 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

What will happen to all the HD DVD owners if Blue-Ray wins? Will we be able to play our disks on a blue ray player?

Probably the same thing that will happen to all the Blu-Ray owners if HD-DVD wins. That is, they will just play their format discs on whatever players they purchased, and continue to purchase movies and players of the lone surviving format. No prayer of cross compatibility unless you buy those bicurious TotalHD discs.
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post #319 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Combo HD DVD discs definitely play in a blu-ray player! So you are pretty safe with those discs regardless. The reverse is of course not true for BD. So better rent those discs if you are worried .

What am I missing? Why would someone by a DVD/HD DVD combo disc and rejoice that the standard def side plays in a BD player if/when HD DVD fails?

A BD player is only going to play the standard definition side of a combo disc...not the HD DVD side. Are you really trying to sell your format by saying, "You're safer to buy our combo disc because if we fail you can still play the standard def side in a BD player?"

Or were you specifically talking about the LG "Total Blue" player (the exmaple of which, before you knew the details, you used to try to tell us the BDA was "falling apart")?
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post #320 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by raaj View Post

No prayer of cross compatibility unless you buy those bicurious TotalHD discs.

Now THAT is the best description of that format yet.

Just where are retailers going to put those things anyway? Blu-ray rack? HD-DVD rack? Does it get a rack of its own???

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post #321 of 322 Old 01-23-2007, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post

What am I missing? Why would someone by a DVD/HD DVD combo disc and rejoice that the standard def side plays in a BD player if/when HD DVD fails?

A BD player is only going to play the standard definition side of a combo disc...not the HD DVD side. Are you really trying to sell your format by saying, "You're safer to buy our combo disc because if we fail you can still play the standard def side in a BD player?"

Yep, I think you hit it on the head that when Amir says that they will, "... definitely play in a blu-ray player" he is talking about the DVD side. He has used this as a selling point for HD DVD in the past, so it isn't anything new. This is from the same person who in an interview just recently said:
Quote:
That's the key thing -- many people ask about HD, is it enough of a step up? Maybe it isn't, but it is a huge step down when you go backward. So when you first watch HD, you go, "Eh, it is kinda a little bit better." But give them ten HD movies to watch, then give them a standard-def DVD afterward, and they'll think their picture is suddenly out of focus!

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #322 of 322 Old 01-28-2007, 05:21 PM
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Probably those who are in a sinking ship may be taking themselves hostages one another...
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