IDC says sales "not good": over 300K PS3s on retail shelves collecting dust - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 01:11 PM
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I've got a couple more attacks on your credibility Jmpage, or at least your arguments, if you'll just bare with me a little longer...

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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Sony and the Playstation Faithful repeatedly, repeatedly insisted that Sony would sell the 6M units they were supposed to produce by the end of 2006 to end users who were chomping at the bit for the PS3 regardless of its price.

Indeed, and 2006 isn't over yet - because the 6 million number was and has always been for fiscal 2006, which ends March 31 2007,

So let's see what happens.

As you mentioned, the emphasis was on produce. Personally, I don't think they need be that far off their initial goals; two weeks into Jan they reached 2 million, so 5 million y end of March I don't think is a stretch.
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post #482 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by paksupeksu View Post

With 2 seconds research from Microsoft website, FORM 10-Q, For the Quarter Ended December 31, 2006
We sold approximately 4.4 million Xbox 360 consoles during the second quarter and approximately 5.4 million Xbox 360 consoles during the first half of fiscal year 2007. Since the Xbox 360 console was launched in November 2005, we have sold approximately 10.4 million units.

Sold to retail Paksupeksu, sold to retail. Not to consumers.

I guess I should qualify my previous "research" conditions to include basic knowledge of financial language.

NPD estimates that ~2.9 million 360's were sold in the US from launch through the end of December - see the differences in what "sold" numbers mean given context?
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post #483 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

I've got a couple more attacks on your credibility Jmpage, or at least your arguments, if you'll just bare with me a little longer...



Indeed, and 2006 isn't over yet - because the 6 million number was and has always been for fiscal 2006, which ends March 31 2007,

So let's see what happens.

As you mentioned, the emphasis was on produce. Personally, I don't think they need be that far off their initial goals; two weeks into Jan they reached 2 million, so 5 million y end of March I don't think is a stretch.

You are mistaken. Sony was initially scheduled to ship 6M units internationally in 2006 calendar year, not fiscal year. I would be happy to provide you with the links and shred your credibility a little further.

Then they cut projections.

Then they delayed the Europe launch.

And please, you still haven't addressed the biggest concern (since you are so hung up on trying to catch me on semantics), which is, with this massive demand for the PS3, why are hundreds of thousands of them already sitting on store shelves barely into 2007?
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post #484 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

You are mistaken. Sony was initially scheduled to ship 6M units internationally in 2006 calendar year, not fiscal year. I would be happy to provide you with the links and shred your credibility a little further.

Go ahead. And don't bother with European delays and initial shipment targets, because I'm not disputing those. It's the 6 million target we're discussing, and fiscal 2006 vs calendar 2006.

Quote:
And please, you still haven't addressed the biggest concern (since you are so hung up on trying to catch me on semantics), which is, with this massive demand for the PS3, why are hundreds of thousands of them already sitting on store shelves barely into 2007?

I've addressed it multiple times. PS3 is sitting on the shelves gathering dust for the same reasons 360 was - and 360 was indeed gathering dust upon becoming widely "available," as the NPD numbers show. Can you handle that response?
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post #485 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Go ahead. And don't bother with European delays and initial shipment targets, because I'm not disputing those. It's the 6 million target we're discussing, and fiscal 2006 vs calendar 2006.



I've addressed it multiple times. PS3 is sitting on the shelves gathering dust for the same reasons 360 was - and 360 was indeed gathering dust upon becoming widely "available," as the NPD numbers show. Can you handle that response?

Where's the demand? PS3 was supposed to sell out the first 6M that they produced as they hit the store shelves.

Now you've fallen back to comparing the PS3 launch to the Xbox 360 launch? That's pretty damn funny. Anticipation for the PS3 has to be 10X what it was for the Xbox 360 launch.

Xbox 360 was the next generation of a console that "lost" the previous console wars even though it was probably a little better than the PS2.

PS2 fan base is enormous by comparison and the first 6M run through March of PS3s is supposed to sell out in no time.

But it doesn't seem to be happening, does it?
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post #486 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Now you've fallen back to comparing the PS3 launch to the Xbox 360 launch? That's pretty damn funny. Anticipation for the PS3 has to be 10X what it was for the Xbox 360 launch.

Wait a minute - I've "fallen back" to comparing to 360? When did that happen? As far as I know, I've been comparing it the whole time, but I invite you to find a post of mine to the contrary.

I'm sure it'll go as smoothly as your "6 million calendar 2006" search is presently going. (Oh yeah, I notice you didn't post any links for me on that...)
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post #487 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Wait a minute - I've "fallen back" to comparing to 360? When did that happen? As far as I know, I've been comparing it the whole time, but I invite you to find a post of mine to the contrary.

I'm sure it'll go as smoothly as your "6 million calendar 2006" search is presently going. (Oh yeah, I notice you didn't post any links for me on that...)

Where's the demand for the PS3?

According to iTrackr the availability of the PS3 is very very good right now.

Item Statistics
Users Tracking: 895
Click for Local User Count
National Availability: 64%

I thought Sony was supposed to easily sell out of the first 6M units that they produced?
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post #488 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Where's the demand for the PS3?

According to iTrackr the availability of the PS3 is very very good right now.

Item Statistics
Users Tracking: 895
Click for Local User Count
National Availability: 64%

I thought Sony was supposed to easily sell out of the first 6M units that they produced?

I could only imagine that would show close to 100% for the 360 then, does that mean there is no demand for the 360 in your mind? If so, well I wouldn't agree with your logic but just my opinion which as history dictates is probably much different than yours.
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post #489 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I thought Sony was supposed to easily sell out of the first 6M units that they produced?

So you've just abondoned debating me entirely, and gone back to harpng on PS3's availability, is that it?

Well, I've got no problem repeating arguments either.

PS3 is "sitting on shelves;" prior to Gears of War, so was 360. After a system selling game made its presence known, 360 sales reached a new level. Thus will it be for PS3 as well.

You say that PS3 was supposed to "easily" sell out of the first 6 million units they produced; if you didn't hear that argument from me in the first place (which you didn't), don't ask me why it hasn't happened either. I don't judge my reality based on what the Inquirer or Kotaku told me for months was "supposed" to be the case. In my book, PS3 is selling as one should reasonably expect it to, and those sales are not bad.
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post #490 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Where's the demand for the PS3?

According to iTrackr the availability of the PS3 is very very good right now.

Item Statistics
Users Tracking: 895
Click for Local User Count
National Availability: 64%

I thought Sony was supposed to easily sell out of the first 6M units that they produced?

according to itrackr, xbox 360 is available in 100% of retailers. so i guess that system is dead in the water.

there is availablity because sony is making a buttload of them and getting them into stores fast. if there was no demand, availability would be a lot higher than 64%. the wii is unavailable because nintendo is doing a terrible job supplying the system to stores.
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post #491 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:25 PM
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I think the number was always 6 mil by March, 4 mil by end of '06, and 2 mil at launch. They missed on the 2 mil, and 4 mil milestones already, yet they are still insisting on the 6 mil number. Which is kinda ridiculous, I doubt they'll sell half of that.

It looks like they are trying to ship 6 mil so they can claim they are just as successful as the Wii... even if PS3 starts to pile up in warehouses around the world. At some point, retailers are going to run out of shelf spaces, as those boxes aren't exactly small, and start begging Sony to stop shipping the thing.
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post #492 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

So you've just abondoned debating me entirely, and gone back to harpng on PS3's availability, is that it?

Well, I've got no problem repeating arguments either.

PS3 is "sitting on shelves;" prior to Gears of War, so was 360. After a system selling game made its presence known, 360 sales reached a new level. Thus will it be for PS3 as well.

You say that PS3 was supposed to "easily" sell out of the first 6 million units they produced; if you didn't hear that argument from me in the first place (which you didn't), don't ask me why it hasn't happened either. I don't judge my reality based on what the Inquirer or Kotaku told me for months was "supposed" to be the case. In my book, PS3 is selling as one should reasonably expect it to, and those sales are not bad.

Lets see if we can sort this one out.

The Xbox 360 sold well over 5M consoles before Gears of War was released. I would say that demand for the Xbox 360 was pretty good before that game came out. It's almost like you attribute all of the Xbox 360 demand in 2006 to the availability of one title.

Lots of titles sold Xbox 360s throughout 2006.

Nintendo had produced 2M Wii systems in support of their launch and has still managed to sell through all of the inventory that they can produce.

Sony produced just over 1M PS3s and inventory is alreadystarting to build.

MS hit well over 1M X360s before inventory started to build.

Do you guys just like to make **** up? I swear to god, arguing with you guys about the Playstation is like someone just called your baby ugly or kicked your dog.
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post #493 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Lets see if we can sort this one out.

The Xbox 360 sold well over 5M consoles before Gears of War was released. I would say that demand for the Xbox 360 was pretty good before that game came out. It's almost like you attribute all of the Xbox 360 demand in 2006 to the availability of one title.

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here or something...

So Jmpage, let's make it easy on everyone here. Are you saying that you think the PS3 will sell fewer than 5 million consoles before November of '07?

Because that is what you are saying when you say demand for the PS3 is "bad," but demand for the 360 was "good," and you point to the pre-Gears sales numbers as support.

Again - do you think PS3 will sell under 5 million in its first 12 months?
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post #494 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie Ruptin View Post

according to itrackr, xbox 360 is available in 100% of retailers. so i guess that system is dead in the water.

there is availablity because sony is making a buttload of them and getting them into stores fast. if there was no demand, availability would be a lot higher than 64%. the wii is unavailable because nintendo is doing a terrible job supplying the system to stores.

you really need to learn how to interpret data, boy


nah, it's different when supposedly this is supposed to be a hot item. Availability wherever you go less than 3 months after launch is NOT GOOD, so don't spin it that way.

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post #495 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie Ruptin View Post

according to itrackr, xbox 360 is available in 100% of retailers. so i guess that system is dead in the water.

there is availablity because sony is making a buttload of them and getting them into stores fast. if there was no demand, availability would be a lot higher than 64%. the wii is unavailable because nintendo is doing a terrible job supplying the system to stores.

you really need to learn how to interpret data, boy

And you really need to drop that condescending tone.

You cannot compare the demand for a console that has been out for more than a year, with one that has come out barely 2.5 months ago.

iTrackr stats only indicate the availability of the console at the retailers at that moment in time. Some of those retailers update their inventory every few hours, while others only update their inventory listings at midnight.

The true measure of how well the console is selling would be the actual number of consoles sold, and how fast the store inventories sell out. I don't think there is any near-real-time tracking service out there that would give you that data, other than the NPD statistics that come out every month or so. 64% availability nationwide indicates that Sony is supplying healthy quantities to 64% of retailers nationwide - ON THAT DAY. The next day it could be as little as 10% because all the retailers sold out of their stock, and are waiting for fresh stock. At a particular time in restocking cycle, you might even see more than 64% availability for a brief period of time.

Just wait for NPD statistics to see how well each console sold. The trend between successive months' sales will give an indication of how hot each console is selling.
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post #496 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie Ruptin View Post

there is availablity because sony is making a buttload of them and getting them into stores fast. if there was no demand, availability would be a lot higher than 64%. the wii is unavailable because nintendo is doing a terrible job supplying the system to stores.

NPD shows Nintendo sold about 1 million units in Nov, & Dec in the USA while Sony sold about 680k. The latest Media create numbers shows 1.2 mil Wii sold to 574k PS3 sold. Then there's Europe where there is almost a million Wii's to zero PS3... yet Nintendo is doing a terrible job supplying? It's unavailable because the demand is much higher.
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post #497 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here or something...

So Jmpage, let's make it easy on everyone here. Are you saying that you think the PS3 will sell fewer than 5 million consoles before November of '07?

Because that is what you are saying when you say demand for the PS3 is "bad," but demand for the 360 was "good," and you point to the pre-Gears sales numbers as support.

Again - do you think PS3 will sell under 5 million in its first 12 months?

I don't think Sony selling 5M PS3s in the first 12 months is at all assured, if that makes you feel better but I do give them a good chance if some must have titles are released.

If good software comes out, then maybe, but again, the pricing on the product is going to make it a tough row to hoe in markets other than this one.

If anything I think they are getting bouyed right now by those purchasing it as a movie player, if they didn't have that they would really be hurting.

I also like the assumption that MS will sit and spin while PS3 tries to catch marketshare on the Xbox 360. I expect MS to get very aggressive in the very near future to head off both Nintendo and Sony. Lower cost silicon is going to give MS a lot of flexibility in pricing out the next version of the Xbox 360.

Let's assume that for the rest of the year MS just sits and spins while Sony continues to sell consoles. Will Sony have 10M or more units in homes by November? I sort of doubt it. MS will be on 2nd and 3rd generation titles come Xmas 2007 and will couple it with a new Xbox 360 revision at a much lower price point. I think Sony is going to be hurting for sure as they are likely going to be fighting a $199 Wii and a $249 Xbox 360.
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post #498 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by thatdude90210 View Post

I think the number was always 6 mil by March, 4 mil by end of '06, and 2 mil at launch. They missed on the 2 mil, and 4 mil milestones already, yet they are still insisting on the 6 mil number. Which is kinda ridiculous, I doubt they'll sell half of that.

It looks like they are trying to ship 6 mil so they can claim they are just as successful as the Wii... even if PS3 starts to pile up in warehouses around the world. At some point, retailers are going to run out of shelf spaces, as those boxes aren't exactly small, and start begging Sony to stop shipping the thing.

I'd love to the "projections" from Sony, people throw numbers around with no links, very convenient. Your last paragraph is ridiculous. As if Sony keeps shipping more and more consoles and the retailers say "please no more!" Umm, they order (buy) them from Sony to resell. I fail to see how having PS3's on the floor is bad, but the 360s is good? The only one who screwed up was Nintendo. They screwed up production (didn't they sell 700k when promising 4million at launch?). The Wii buzz will wear off and they will have a hard time selling the re-packaged GC for $250 soon.

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post #499 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tgable View Post

I'd love to the "projections" from Sony, people throw numbers around with no links, very convenient. Your last paragraph is ridiculous. As if Sony keeps shipping more and more consoles and the retailers say "please no more!" Umm, they order (buy) them from Sony to resell. I fail to see how having PS3's on the floor is bad, but the 360s is good? The only one who screwed up was Nintendo. They screwed up production (didn't they sell 700k when promising 4million at launch?). The Wii buzz will wear off and they will have a hard time selling the re-packaged GC for $250 soon.

Well, inventory buildups in Japan forced Sony to cut the price by $80+ on a console they are already losing money on.

Nice belittling comments about the Wii. Does the Wii scare u?

I sort of doubt they can afford to do that anywhere but Japan. Japan is their key market. Even if the console failed in Europe and NA, Sony needs to win in Japan.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eapleitez View Post

nah, it's different when supposedly this is supposed to be a hot item. Availability wherever you go less than 3 months after launch is NOT GOOD, so don't spin it that way.

hmm seems like you don't understand things very well. when something is in demand, availability is GREAT! it means sony is kicking @$$ at manufacturing this state of the art system.

its ranked #1 at amazon every time its in stock. that is great news for sony!
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I don't think Sony selling 5M PS3s in the first 12 months is at all assured

OK there it is! can we get the guys in white coats in here please?

now we know what we're dealing with when it comes to jmpage2.
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post #502 of 503 Old 01-30-2007, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Well, inventory buildups in Japan forced Sony to cut the price by $80+ on a console they are already losing money on.

Nice belittling comments about the Wii. Does the Wii scare u?

I sort of doubt they can afford to do that anywhere but Japan. Japan is their key market. Even if the console failed in Europe and NA, Sony needs to win in Japan.

Link to the Sony price cut? The retailers cut the price (ie. sales) not Sony. I guess your post had some truthiness in it +1.

I don't care about the Wii, I just think it a lame idea. I encourage everyone to make and sell game consoles, I just think a gimick slapped on a GC is not fun, no matter how cheap.

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