The Official 3D Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2161 Old 04-10-2008, 06:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I went to two different 3D presentations employing two DLP projectors and polarizing glassses in Chicago last weekend. Two things struck me. The first was the loss of detail from the 50% reduction in light. The second was how after a few minutes the 3D effect became much less apparent and important. I literally habituated to it in just a few minutes.

I don't know, I'm just not so sure that this is something that will end up matering much.

I'm not trying to be negative but just to give my observations of my recent experiences.

Art


Art:

Would that be the new Muvico complex in Rosemount (?)
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post #182 of 2161 Old 04-10-2008, 06:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Vincent Shaw View Post

If the Hannah Montana disc is being packaged with four pairs of glasses, then it seems increasingly likely this will be an anaglyph presentation (shutter-glasses would have pushed the disc's overall price through the ceiling, and would have been worthless without the necessary add-ons needed to decode a 3-D image configured at 120 fps). In other words, this 'giant leap forward' for Blu-ray is nothing of the kind.

What's worse is that many of the countless thousands of people who buy this disc will think that's the best that '3-D at home' is capable of offering...

Well guess what? It IS the best that 3D can look . . . without spending any money.

What is the % of HDTV's that are 120Hz RPTV DLP's? Because at the moment - they are the only ones that can deal with shutter LCD glasses and a dual stream encode . . . which doesn't exist as a BD.
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post #183 of 2161 Old 04-10-2008, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Two things struck me. The first was the loss of detail from the 50% reduction in light. The second was how after a few minutes the 3D effect became much less apparent and important. I literally habituated to it in just a few minutes.


Art

Funny that I also find the same issues EXCEPT at the AMC theatre at Downtown Disney (Florida). It seems like the one in Florida they calibrate the brightness properly.

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post #184 of 2161 Old 04-10-2008, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Well guess what? It IS the best that 3D can look . . . without spending any money.

But the press release (and subsequent media reportage) has painted this as some kind of 'breakthrough' for Blu-ray, and anyone who knows anything about 3-D knows that anaglyph is just about the worst kind of 3-D format for home viewing. So those who view this disc, not having seen real 3-D, will form the idea that this is what 3-D 'looks like'. Disney might just as well not have bothered, since the disc would have sold by the bucketload in plain old 2-D format.

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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

What is the % of HDTV's that are 120Hz RPTV DLP's? Because at the moment - they are the only ones that can deal with shutter LCD glasses and a dual stream encode . . . which doesn't exist as a BD.

It was probably naive of me to hope this disc would be the first to take a step into the brave new world of true, full-resolution 3-D, but that's just the optimist in me. You and I both know that when 120Hz-based technology does arrive in the marketplace, it's going to blow every anaglyph presentation out of the water, and people will wonder how on earth they ever managed to sit through such a thing in the past.

But who knows? Maybe the Hannah Montana disc will contain a wonderful anaglyph transfer! Somehow I doubt it, but we live in hope...


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post #185 of 2161 Old 04-10-2008, 02:21 PM
 
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Vincent:

I agree 100% because we do have a measuring stick already . . .

BUGS - on HD DVD. And those who have bought it all pretty much say the same thing . . .

"Don't waste your money."

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post #186 of 2161 Old 04-11-2008, 09:49 AM
 
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3-D TV: Already in your home

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Sets now in stores; content on the way

The motion picture industry is making a big bet on 3-D, in part because it's supposed to promise an experience that can't be duplicated on television.
There's a problem with that logic, though: 3-D-capable televisions aren't just possible, they're already here.

Flat-panel TVs from Samsung and some other manufacturers can already display 3-D (with glasses required), though they're not yet touting the feature.

That's because, as with most new technologies, whether it was the advent of color TV or the switch to HD, 3-D at home requires both capability and content.

Steve Schklair, CEO of 3ality Digital Systems, who will demonstrate 3-D TV with a live transmission at NAB on Monday, says with companies like Samsung releasing 3-D-capable HDTVs, content and the awareness of the content are the next steps.

"Initially, you'll see theatrical releases being released in 3-D to the monitors, followed by or even led by some broadcasts tests of certain events," Schklair says.

Blu-ray discs are also capable of 3-D, and Schklair predicts 3-D Blu-ray releases will be coming by the end of the year, with a corresponding bump in promotion for 3-D-capable TVs.

What's more, several companies are already demonstrating 3-D displays that work without glasses.

"A 3-D display should be as convenient as a 2-D screen today," says Tibor Balogh, CEO of Budapest-based Holografika. The company makes the Holovizio 3-D display, which requires no glasses. "If you wear glasses, only two people can watch the set simultaneously, and it will not work in the long term."

Philips' WOWvx monitors have established a foothold as commercial displays, and the company is heading Europe's 3D 4 You project to develop broadcast standards.

"Part of our strategy to promote our displays into the professional markets and digital signage is also to bring to the market a number of content-creation tools that enable and facilitate the production of content in the format that is required for our display," says Rob de Vogel, senior director of business creation of Philips 3D Solutions. Those efforts include the BlueBox software for converting 2-D images and plug-ins for software packages like Maya.

Sports has also made some significant headway into this sphere, with the NBA set to present a case study on broadcasting live sports in 3-D.

"We've done three or four productions with rather good results with the tools that are out there," says Mike Rokosa, VP of engineering for NBA Entertainment.

The NBA has been working with Burbank-based Pace HD, which provided the 3-D cameras the league has used in three 3-D experiments to date. "The cameras are the specialty item," Rokosa says. "Most of the rest of the tools we used for these productions were adaptive uses of current HD production equipment."

While a few minor production hurdles remain to be solved, a lot of what's left to figure out are creative choices, such as deciding how graphics and statistics should look in 3-D and reducing quick camera cuts to preserve the immersive experience Rokosa says most find comparable to actually being at the game.

During one showing, "inadvertently, a ball came off the court toward the camera and everybody swooned out of the way," he says.

Advertising is a likely driver for the creation of 3-D content. Studies show consumers pay significantly more attention to 3-D commercials, giving advertisers a tangible incentive for investing in the technology, Schklair says.

3-D content also has to fit within the current infrastructure, whether it's broadcast over the air, through cable or satellite or over the Internet. Schklair says 3ality's technology meets current FCC bandwidth standards. Cameras capable of creating live 3-D signals are plentiful, and the number of 3-D-capable displays in homes could be dramatically increased with set-top boxes that upgrade current HDTVs to display the format.

3-D will be the topic for a full day of presentations in the NAB Content Theater on Monday, including a live 3-D transmission from Los Angeles and a panel discussion on live 3-D sports.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...goryid=20&cs=1
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post #187 of 2161 Old 04-11-2008, 10:19 AM
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...the number of 3-D-capable displays in homes could be dramatically increased with set-top boxes that upgrade current HDTVs to display the format.

This bit caught my eye, because it suggests that even TV's without 120Hz encoding can be used to display high-frame-rate 3-D with the addition of a set-top box. Anyone know how it'll work? I'm assuming you'll still need a 120Hz Blu-ray player (some of this techie stuff tends to go right over my head!).


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post #188 of 2161 Old 04-11-2008, 10:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Shaw View Post

...the number of 3-D-capable displays in homes could be dramatically increased with set-top boxes that upgrade current HDTVs to display the format.

This bit caught my eye, because it suggests that even TV's without 120Hz encoding can be used to display high-frame-rate 3-D with the addition of a set-top box. Anyone know how it'll work? I'm assuming you'll still need a 120Hz Blu-ray player (some of this techie stuff tends to go right over my head!).

Here is how I understand how 3D will work on a BD player. If my post needs correction please . . . be kind.

BD has in the specs and in the SoC - the ability to do DS-1080 - dual video streams each 1080x24P

1. There are two encodes on the disc - each a max of let's say 22 GB based on how much is left over for LA and authoring and such.

2. One stream is for the left eye and one for the right. The glasses alternate see/block fast enough in conjuntion with the HDTV (120 Hz) so that each eye will get a refresh rate of 60 Hz avoiding any flicker issues at all. That is the limit of the SoC - 60 Hz each stream.

We see DS in Bonus View (DS-PIP) today but I do not believe it is DS1080 yet. It is AFAIK DS 1080/480

IMO - this STB they speak of would somehow drop the frame rate from 60 to 30 then we would see 30 Hz per eye versus 60.

Is that enough to prevent flicker?

I too don't know enough about the technology of 3D.
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post #189 of 2161 Old 04-11-2008, 12:00 PM
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Is that enough to prevent flicker?

Not sure, but it sounds a little 'iffy' to me! I think I'll stick with 120Hz TV's and Blu-ray players, just so I know I'm getting the 'real deal'.

Thanks for that explanation, Lee. It'll be interesting to see how this technology pans out in the months (and years) to come.


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post #190 of 2161 Old 04-11-2008, 12:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Shaw View Post

Is that enough to prevent flicker?

Not sure, but it sounds a little 'iffy' to me! I think I'll stick with 120Hz TV's and Blu-ray players, just so I know I'm getting the 'real deal'.

Thanks for that explanation, Lee. It'll be interesting to see how this technology pans out in the months (and years) to come.

Maybe this time 3D will stick. It hasn't in the past, but other than IMAX 3D it was more of a gimmick than anything else . . .IMO.
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post #191 of 2161 Old 04-11-2008, 01:53 PM
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Just be aware the "dual stream" scenario for 3-D that Lee is describing is only a "possibility." There is no standard for this. The BD specification as it stands has no provision for 48/24hz 1080p or 120/60hz 1080i 3D authoring by using the optional 1080 PIP stream support available in the Bonus View (1.1) spec.

Mainstream theatrical 3D movies, as presented in Real-D or equivalent, are 24fps per eye. Each frame is repeated 3 times each, so 72hz per eye... 144hz total. That display method eliminates any noticeable flicker in 3D.
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post #192 of 2161 Old 04-11-2008, 02:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by grommet View Post

Just be aware the "dual stream" scenario for 3-D that Lee is describing is only a "possibility." There is no standard for this. The BD specification as it stands has no provision for 48/24hz 1080p or 120/60hz 1080i 3D authoring by using the optional 1080 PIP stream support available in the Bonus View (1.1) spec.

If they go with something different than I described - it may require a brand new player - Profile 4. Would it make better sense to use existing players capablities to do real 3D? One more profile and they will kill the SAL market.

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Mainstream theatrical 3D movies, as presented in Real-D or equivalent, are 24fps per eye. Each frame is repeated 3 times each, so 72hz per eye... 144hz total. That display method eliminates any noticable flicker in 3D.

Correct - from realD's website:

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Only the projectors made by manufactures licensing DLP technology from Texas Instruments, Christie, Barco, and NEC, meet the required specification for field-sequential 3D. In order to make the Real D, NuVision shuttering eyewear, or Dolby systems work, you have to have a rapid sequence of frames projected on the screen. And only the DLP can refresh fast enough. In the case of material captured at the film standard rate of 24 frames per second, these systems work best when projecting at 144 frames per second. There are two 24-fps images for 48 fps, and each image is repeated three times for a total of 144 fps. The images are concatenated, and a train of images (left, right, left, right, left, right, and so on) reach the eyes. Half the time when you look at the image your right eye is seeing only the right images and is seeing nothing in the left eye, and vice versa. If everything is done right, the result is a good because the left and right images are treated identically by the projector in terms of geometry and illumination. The repetition rate of 144 frames per second lets us approach left and right frame projection simultaneity, another important factor.

http://community.reald.com/blogs/rea...01/28/540.aspx

Dolby - RealD's competition for DC 3D is a different method:

http://www.news.com/Dolby-stakes-its...0-20&subj=news
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post #193 of 2161 Old 04-12-2008, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by grommet View Post

Mainstream theatrical 3D movies, as presented in Real-D or equivalent, are 24fps per eye. Each frame is repeated 3 times each, so 72hz per eye... 144hz total. That display method eliminates any noticeable flicker in 3D.

I'm still baffled as to how 120Hz-based TV's and Blu-ray players are going to handle 3-D footage projected theatrically at 144fps.

This is where it gets complicated, folks, so bear with me: At 144fps, each separate left-right image is projected three times in succession in a L1 R1 L1 R1 L1 R1, L2 R2 L2 R2 L2 R2 configuration, maintaining the original 24fps running time. In other words, a single frame in a 2-D film is represented by six frames in a digital 3-D set-up, because 144 divided by 24 = 6.

However, 120 divided by 24 = 5, and that doesn't allow for the original theatrical configuration unless there's some kind of pull-down applied, or unless the material is encoded at 96fps and run as L1 R1 L1 R1, L2 R2 L2 R2 (96 divided by 24 = 4). That may - and I emphasize, may - be enough to eliminate flicker, but it's a bit of a come-down from 144fps...


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post #194 of 2161 Old 04-12-2008, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

If they go with something different than I described - it may require a brand new player - Profile 4. Would it make better sense to use existing players capablities to do real 3D? One more profile and they will kill the SAL market.

I thought they were trying to make specifications for a new profile of player for 3D (I thought it was Profile 3.0 but that's audio only in't it)

But if they are trying to make new specifications for a 3D standard for players, wouldn't that make the Mitsubishi 3D player not in compliance (if that's already being produced and not made to the standards they're currently setting out)?
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post #195 of 2161 Old 04-12-2008, 09:24 AM
 
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I thought they were trying to make specifications for a new profile of player for 3D (I thought it was Profile 3.0 but that's audio only in't it)

Correct - 3.0 is Audio only. Some have guessed it will be the "new" SACD BD audio format.

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But if they are trying to make new specifications for a 3D standard for players, wouldn't that make the Mitsubishi 3D player not in compliance (if that's already being produced and not made to the standards they're currently setting out)?

This is a totally unknown area, We can guesstimate how they will do it based on the technology available today (DS1080 and 120Hz HDTV's)

We know that whatever 3D standard they pick . . .it's going to work on the PS3 with a FW UP.

So I guess you have to ask - will they force SAL player owners to buy yet another "new" BD player to take advantage of 3D? Or make the standard fit the existing base of players?

BTW - the Mits BD 3D player? Based on what I read, it is different than other BD players, not because it can deliver true 3D from a 3D encoded BD . . .but that it will take 2D content and turn it into 3D content when using the proper display and hardware (STB and glasses)
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post #196 of 2161 Old 04-12-2008, 09:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Vincent Shaw View Post

I'm still baffled as to how 120Hz-based TV's and Blu-ray players are going to handle 3-D footage projected theatrically at 144fps.

This is where it gets complicated, folks, so bear with me: At 144fps, each separate left-right image is projected three times in succession in a L1 R1 L1 R1 L1 R1, L2 R2 L2 R2 L2 R2 configuration, maintaining the original 24fps running time. In other words, a single frame in a 2-D film is represented by six frames in a digital 3-D set-up, because 144 divided by 24 = 6.

However, 120 divided by 24 = 5, and that doesn't allow for the original theatrical configuration unless there's some kind of pull-down applied, or unless the material is encoded at 96fps and run as L1 R1 L1 R1, L2 R2 L2 R2 (96 divided by 24 = 4). That may - and I emphasize, may - be enough to eliminate flicker, but it's a bit of a come-down from 144fps...

You are looking at the specs of a commerical movie theater digital projector. It only has to deal with 24FPS.

Those specs have no bearing on what will be used for home video and HT because home video is also 30 and 60. The newest HDTV's are offering 120Hz. That is the number we should work with.

60hz is what we watch when we watch TV be it HDTV or NTSC. I have never seen flicker induced by too low a refresh rate? Have you?

So 60 Hz for each eye is fine - no flicker. Also matches the 120 Hz displays (X2). So all we have to do is use the cadence to change 24 to 30 then 30 to 60. Simple.



I can see Pioneer at some time in the future offerring a 144 Hz HDTV (if they can get FPD to do 3D like DLP RPTV can). They now offer 72Hz - I believe they are the only CEM to do this.
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post #197 of 2161 Old 04-12-2008, 10:41 AM
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You are looking at the specs of a commerical movie theater digital projector. It only has to deal with 24FPS. Those specs have no bearing on what will be used for home video and HT because home video is also 30 and 60. The newest HDTV's are offering 120Hz. That is the number we should work with.

I understand what you're saying about the difference between theatrical projection and home video, but while Real D is capable of 144fps (which easily allows for multiples of 24, thereby maintaining the original running time of a given film), an HD TV capable of reproducing 'only' 120fps leads to a discrepancy in the way it can handle multiples of 24. If the theatrical version transmits the left-right images at L1 R1 L1 R1 L1 R1 (six frames) etc., one of those frames will have to be dropped for a 120Hz TV/Blu-ray presentation, because 120 divided by 24 = 5. Either that, or some other method will have to be used to recreate the original 24fps running time.

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I can see Pioneer at some time in the future offerring a 144 Hz HDTV (if they can get FPD to do 3D like DLP RPTV can). They now offer 72Hz - I believe they are the only CEM to do this. So all we have to do is use the cadence to change 24 to 30 then 30 to 60. Simple.

Call me a newbie, but I'm not sure what this means. Remember what I said earlier about not being technically-minded on these issues?!!


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post #198 of 2161 Old 04-12-2008, 11:56 AM
 
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Vincent:

My fault - that last sentence should have been higher up in the post. It conflicts with the info I gave with the Pioneer. Now fixed.

If you do not have a true 24P frame rate multiplyer HDTV - of which few people do - then it is very easy - just do what we always do. . . . apply the cadence and turn 24 into 30, then X2 = 60. This matches what we need to do - get to 1/2 of 120 Hz.

You are stuck on this, "it has to be a multiple of 24" when it does not.
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post #199 of 2161 Old 04-13-2008, 06:28 AM
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You are stuck on this, "it has to be a multiple of 24" when it does not.

Aha! Now I getcha! Thanks for that clarification.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised, though, if someone does come up with a 144Hz solution for future HD TV's (as you suggested in an earlier post, re: Pioneer). That would render '3-D TV' wholly compatible with digital theatrical solutions, making it easier all round.


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Originally Posted by Vincent Shaw View Post

Aha! Now I getcha! Thanks for that clarification.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised, though, if someone does come up with a 144Hz solution for future HD TV's (as you suggested in an earlier post, re: Pioneer). That would render '3-D TV' wholly compatible with digital theatrical solutions, making it easier all round.

When I look at 3D on BD . . .I have to ask myself . . . do they really want to "reinvent the wheel?" Or will they just "use what they have" to make it work.

Plus, 3D is still a novelity. Just like it always has been.
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Many issues threaten 3-D momentum

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By Carolyn Giardina

April 13, 2008

More NAB coverage

LAS VEGAS -- Digital-cinema stakeholders said that while digital-cinema and 3-D has been widely embraced, there remain myriad unresolved technical and business issues that threaten the momentum.

Sunday at the NAB Show's Digital Cinema Summit, MKPE Consulting's Michael Karagosian warned that not one of the virtual print fee agreements that are moving the industry forward have all six major studios on board.

In the new deals, studios pay a fee starting at $800 per screen, per movie, as part of a financing model to enable the conversion to digital cinema. Karagosian said that if one studio doesn't play, that means that the exhibitor contribution will grow.

As an example, he suggested that if one major studio held back annually on just two blockbuster titles that the exhibitor contributions might grow from 20% to 32% of the total.


He said that if exhibitors buy their own equipment without a VPF deal, there still are distribution challenges in the business agreements. He also expressed concern about the stability of the technology, saying that under current contracts, exhibitors or third parties are at risk if the spec changes.

Theater owners demonstrated a cautious approach, more focused on business than technical challenges. "We have not seen any cost benefits," Marcus Theatres' Mark Collins said. "We need to start promoting digital cinema as something that is different from what (moviegoers) have."

"We're ready to roll out when it make sense," he said. "I want to see a wow factor, I want to see more people coming to the theater. (Audiences) don't care whose server we are using."

The costs for an exhibitor to transition to digital cinema compared with film is 200%-300% higher in a 25-year period, Karagosian estimated. This includes the costs of installation, maintenance and other operational expenses.

Karagosian's presentation also reflected the current interest in 3-D. "I expect to see 3-D be the driver for most of the installation this next year," he added.

Screenvision is starting to hear interest in 3-D theater advertising, the company's chief technology officer John Missale said.

He added, however, that the playback system for such content is different from those required for such other functions as 2-D advertising and games. "We're looking to reduce this to one box to handle all of the various preshows," he said.

Meanwhile, studio execs described remaining production challenges.

For one, Disney vp production technology Howard Lukk identified the supply of 3-D camera rigs. He said that if there are one or two major 3-D features in production in Hollywood at the same time, there are enough available camera rigs, "but the minute you put a third in place, there are not enough."

"It's not a fad," he added. "There are CG and live-action (features) coming. It would be good to see a better supply of camera rigs and stereoscopic postproduction tools."

Warner Bros. senior vp technology Wendy Aylsworth addressed the need for a method of handling subtitles in 3-D content. "There have not been many 3-D movies done with subtitles," she said, adding that "most of the films so far have been children's films, so they are dubbed rather than subtitled."

She presented two methods of subtitling that Warners has been investigating.

The NAB Digital Cinema Summit is co-produced by the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers and Entertainment Technology Center.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...eee430d31cc4f3


Fithian: Next year pivotal for 3-D

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...ddc311c1254dff
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post #202 of 2161 Old 04-14-2008, 04:37 PM
 
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Digital cinema dispute in 3-D

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Studios, theater owners told to settle fee issues
By DAVID S. COHEN

NATO prexy John Fithian warned Sunday that the cinema industry is headed for "a potential train wreck" over 3-D if studios and theater owners do not settle their dispute over digital cinema fees in short order. And he noted that while heavyweights such as Jeffrey Katzenberg and James Cameron were early and ardent supporters of digital, key helmers like Steven Spielberg remain on the fence.

Fithian, in his keynote address to the Digital Cinema Summit at NAB in Las Vegas, noted that there are 10 major studio 3-D releases skedded for 2009, including DreamWorks Animation's "Monsters vs. Aliens" and Fox's Cameron opus "Avatar," but "we don't have the screens for them. We have less than 1,000 3-D screens in the U.S. and fewer than that in the rest of the world."

Yet negotiations between the studios and theater owners are at something of an impasse, said Fithian, as studios try to reduce the Virtual Print Fee that helps defray exhibitors' costs to install digital cinema systems.

"Unless the deals are done in the next month or two, we won't have time to do the installations in time," said Fithian, adding that manufacturing, integration and testing take time.

"We literally need the deals now to make the slate work. If the studios want this to happen in time for 2009, the deals have to be struck, and they have to be struck right now."

The hardtop org chief pointed to two major exhibitor groups that have yet to strike d-cinema deals: the Cinema Buying Group, which negotiates for some 8,000 independent screens; and Digital Cinema Implementation Partners, which is negotiating for some 14,000 Regal, AMC and Cinemark screens.

"The next two months are crucial" Fithian told Variety after his address. "If those deals get done, we have 22,000 screens and we're off and running. If they don't, we have a problem."

Fithian told the Digital Cinema Summit the essential elements for the transition to digital projection are now in place: uniform technical standards, high quality and working business models. Digital projection, he said, is now superior to film, though he conceded, "There are still a few who don't quite get it.

"You've all heard Jeffrey Katzenberg as one of the great priests of digital cinema. He and Jim Cameron have (done) more to push digital cinema than anyone else in the industry. But his partner Steven Spielberg is not convinced." Fithian said there is an ongoing struggle to get a full digital release for "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull."

"If we haven't convinced Steven Spielberg yet, we're not quite done," Fithian said.


http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...goryId=18&cs=1
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post #203 of 2161 Old 04-16-2008, 03:59 PM
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Why do directors who make 3d (or stereoscopic) films (like Mr. Cameron) keep changing the interocular distance? In real life people's eyes don't keep getting further apart then closer together! Why not constantly have the same interocular distance that best approximates the average distance between human eyes?

PS: That's what the interocular distance is all about isn't it - the distance between the eyes or lenses not the point both of them are pointing at/focusing on - which I suppose can change
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Why do directors who make 3d (or stereoscopic) films (like Mr. Cameron) keep changing the interocular distance? In real life people's eyes don't keep getting further apart then closer together! Why not constantly have the same interocular distance that best approximates the average distance between human eyes?

PS: That's what the interocular distance is all about isn't it - the distance between the eyes or lenses not the point both of them are pointing at/focusing on - which I suppose can change

Some of the more technically-minded members of the forum can correct me if I'm wrong, but it has something to do with maintaining the size and shape of specific images within the screen plane.

For instance, in 2006, NASA sent cameras into space to record 3-D HD images of the sun (first time in history stereoscopic images of our closest star has ever been attempted), but if the cameras had retained the 'average distance between human eyes', it would have looked like 2-D. In fact, unless I'm very much mistaken, the separate left-right images had to be recorded millions of miles apart, in order to create sufficient interocular distance for us to register the images as '3-D'. The results can be seen in the Large Format film 3D SUN (2007), currently doing the rounds of various LF theaters.


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/\\ maybe you're right - but that's not how it would have looked in real life - in real life it would have looked more 2d. If filming things so that they appear the same size as they appear to an average person in the real world, surely the interocular distance shouldn't need to change within a movie.
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you forgot about one thing.

the industry is about making money.

now who's going to watch something in 3D but looking like 2D? Maybe you, me and several thousand people around the world... but they'd rather aiming the several million viewers.

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Here's the thing, if your talking about DLP 3d chip that Samsung and Mitsu have developed, High quality home 3D is here, and here to stay. I have a 61" Samsung and the 3D is breathtaking. Ive conducted allot of experiments with it, and due to the way they paint the images to the screen, which is effectively a "checkerboard" pattern, there is no discernible quality difference from a FULL 1080p dual streams or 720P streams.

I've tested both and they both look fantastic. The advantage of 720p being that you could encode two 720p streams in the bandwidth that it would take one regular 1080p stream.

The high frequency of the LCD shutter glasses are rock solid. Clear and flicker free. Also in 3D mode the tv set changes its gamma and light output to compensate for the darkness and increased contrast of the glasses. Big bonus is, you don't loose 2/3 of your light like you do in dual projection polarized setups. Ive built allot of systems, designed some large theme park stereo venues, and I am so impressed by how great these home systems are.

The tech is here. What's holding mainstream back is content.

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I understand 120Hz has now become available on plasma and LCD TV sets, which means 3-D is 'do-able' across the full range of HD televisions. As 3dfool says, it's lack of content which is holding things back, but that will arrive in due course. 2009 will be the flash-point, no question.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Shaw View Post

I understand 120Hz has now become available on plasma and LCD TV sets, which means 3-D is 'do-able' across the full range of HD televisions. As 3dfool says, it's lack of content which is holding things back, but that will arrive in due course. 2009 will be the flash-point, no question.

That assumes that 3D continues it's growth in popularity.

We have seen over the last 50+ years, a growth and death cycle of 3D as each new technology gets a shot at wooing the consumer.

The only one to survive over a long time period is IMAX 3D.
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post #210 of 2161 Old 04-19-2008, 08:25 AM
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That assumes that 3D continues it's growth in popularity.

I dunno. Given the undoubted commitment by studios, filmmakers and theater owners, and given the massive slate of movies already in the pipeline (there are almost 30 3-D features in the works for 2009, with more to be announced in due course), this wave seems more than a little... permanent.

The only thing that's going to kill it is an ongoing diet of mediocre films, and while the current slate is top-heavy with family/animation productions, the growing number of titles means there will soon be something for everyone. Me? I'm looking forward to MY BLOODY VALENTINE and FINAL DESTINATION 4 more than I'm looking forward to anything by Disney or DreamWorks et al. There again, I'm the kinda guy who thinks AMITYVILLE 3-D is the heights of stereoscopic sophistication! And I'll argue that contention to the grave, y'hear?!

I keep being told that 'gimmickry' (ie. things popping out of the screen) is universally hated and amounts to 'bad' 3-D, but I happen to love that kind of thing, so long as it's done sparingly and integrated into the plot (hence my love for AMITYVILLE 3-D!). I suspect the same thing is true of most audiences, too. Mind you, critics only seem to call it 'gimmickry' when it's used by low-budget independent productions. Apparently, A-list productions are above the fray. Not...

Nothing wrong with a little ballyhoo, sez I. And gawd knows, current movies could certainly do with some of that.


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