The Official 3D Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2161 Old 01-18-2007, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Everybody's heard of the new 3D HDTV @ CEMA but I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on all of the emerging 3D technologies out there. Please post any knowledge you have or experiences you've had with any of the upcomming/already existing conversion units, peripherals, software, etc...(In particular HDTV compatible 3D). Stereoscopic HD is just about ready to knock on our door - hopefully it won't come with a price tag of $50,000 and leave our heads feeling like they've been beaten with an ice pick.

I've been doing a bunch of reading and speaking on this topic - Here's what I've found so far. A company named Sensio seems to have the most promising tech. for now (at least that which can be mass produced). Supposedly great results without the instant migrane - anyone who's seen it, or knows more about it, please fill us in.

Sensio: http://www.sensio.tv/en/default.3d

P.S. Please excuse me if this thread is not in the exact location it should be in, I wasn't exactly sure on where to post it.
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post #2 of 2161 Old 01-19-2007, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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It looks like the lack of content may not be a problem after all - http://www.antara.co.id/en/seenws/?id=21137. That's ironic.

I need some posts guys. We need to make the official 3D thread Official. There have been leaps and bounds in the development area of HD3D, I know some of you have to have some knowledge - share it. This is the investment of tomm. After HDTV is gonna come stereoscopic video, we all know it, now let's figure out who's gonna do it first (and start buying some shares).
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post #3 of 2161 Old 01-19-2007, 09:29 PM
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hello

i am the AVS almost official HD 3D nut

I have been doing 3D art and some very short 720p 3D clips.

i have a Dell 3007WFP that is 30 inch LCD with 2560x1600 with a custom polarization screen it is fully stereoptic.

I do not like the non glass`s type of LCD it is to picky about head placement, if you move to much you louse the 3D. worse the left right eye will reverse if you go to far to the side.

i think the cheapest solution will be a super bright 2x LCD with odd even polarization set on the front screen. the doubled up screens are too expensive and are far to thick to produce. the brightness can be done with LEDs, the LCD glass tech needs a few more years to get the dot pitch needed.

some time in the next 20 years we will see full wall screens with 32 bit color and 8K res with full 3D. it will look like you have a private theater stage in your house.

it will have to be flexible screen you plaster to the wall, possibly electronic ink could get to that level.
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post #4 of 2161 Old 01-22-2007, 07:54 PM
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You guys might want to check out the following:

http://www.iz3d.com/index.html

They sell a pair of reasonably priced passive stereo (polarized) LCD monitors.
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post #5 of 2161 Old 01-22-2007, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomax View Post

i have a Dell 3007WFP that is 30 inch LCD with 2560x1600 with a custom polarization screen it is fully stereoptic.

Lomax,

I'm curious about your set up. Can you share anymore information?

Thanks
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post #6 of 2161 Old 01-22-2007, 09:50 PM
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What do you want to know?

the polarized screen was ordered from a company that had a ad in stereo3D.com, it was a custom size and dot pitch and cost almost as much as the dell LCD. thats 1300$ for the LCD and 1000$ for the screen and 40$ for a pair of polarized glasses.

i love the Dell LCD i have the older 24 wide screen also. i have two pci-x cards both ATI crossfires to run the DVI-D (dual link) that this LCD needs. the cards do an interlace to the LCD, the even lines are polarized vertical. and the odds are Horizontal. it was a real pain getting the screen mounted correctly, with such small line spacing even just a hair in the wrong place will mess up the 3D. after messing with it a few hours i figured out i had to have the glasses on and a bright white background that is interlaced first odd the even so i can line the screen up. the Dell is very bright witch is great as the screen cuts the light output by half.

If you have a 15 or 17 LCD you can buy these much cheaper

http://www.3dz.co.uk/3d_lcd_monitor.html

I have one on a Samsung 171v, it works but i think there screens are not as perfect as the one i got from the lab. there was a small bit of ghosting with there screens, but it was the best i had seen till i got the new one. it could just be the dell 30 inch is so much better then the old samsung.
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post #7 of 2161 Old 01-22-2007, 11:46 PM
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I think that if it could be possible to "Convert" a regular 2D movie to a 3D with a processor, 3D could be the next big thing.

Virtual reality interactive movies... now THAT's what I'm waiting for....

Format war my A$$! I want one, and one only!
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post #8 of 2161 Old 01-23-2007, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the posts guys. It seems like you've really been doing your homework Lomax.

The big problem with these 3D monitors, like the one at CEMA is that the stereo-image can only be seen in a direct line of sight, the minute you angle yourself everything is thrown off, I'd have to imagine that you also must be within a certain range from the monitor itself as well. I think that this is the biggest hurdle for these manufacturers to overcome. They almost got it, and I truly believe it's only a matter of time before they perfect it. Only until it's perfected (at a reasonable price) will it hit the mass market. I'm thinking def. within the next 5 years. This is some really exciting stuff.

Check these guys out for fun: www.eyeliner3d.com - I believe that in 20 years this will be our viewing media. The other day Richard Branson became the first person ever, to give a live speech in 6 countries at the same time!
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post #9 of 2161 Old 01-23-2007, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm sure you guys have already heard about them but if you haven't check out the Z800's by 3dvisor. Supposedly their the best 3D HMD on the market. I've never tried them, but if anyone has feel free to give your input. I personally don't like the HMD type stuff.
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post #10 of 2161 Old 01-23-2007, 09:15 AM
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Anyone interested in stereoscopic 3d may be interested in this SMPTE Journal paper by Lenny Lipton. Short history of cinema 3d from film to digital. Lipton founded Stereographics Corp, now Reald.

Go to Google and search "SMPTE Journal September 2001 Lipton"

The URL link doesn't seem to work.
http://www.stereographics.com/x_down...pers/SMPTE.PDF.
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post #11 of 2161 Old 01-23-2007, 09:44 PM
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the angle problem is only with the two view LCDs and those that do Circular polarization. if you do odd and even lines in 90 degree polarization you need glasses to see 3D but have no head placement problems. this is the same way 3D projection is done at Disney theme parks.
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post #12 of 2161 Old 01-24-2007, 06:12 AM
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Best combination for 3D experience is StereoscopicPlayer on PC and DepthQ projector with Liquid Shutter Glasses.
www.3dtv.at
www.depthq.com
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post #13 of 2161 Old 01-24-2007, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess each tech. has it's own particular problems. While the angle issue only is particular to the 2 view and circ. polerazation, the field sequential system has the issue of eye fatigue and headaches after prolonged use. I also don't think that any system that requires the usage of glasses will ever hit the mass market (as far as regular viewing is concerned). People will have a problem with having to wear glasses everytime they watch TV, I'd deal with it, but don't think others would. I wonder what's next? How will all this be maximized for regular viewing - I mean all shows (news, movies, sitcoms, etc...) 3D!!!

Does anyone know of any viable options for using a current plasma/LCD to entertain Stereo content. I'm talking about converting current DVDs into 3D on an already existing non stereoscopic monitor - Don't laugh (I know the difficulty). Even if it needs to be ran through some kind of conversion software on a PC prior to being viewable. Or in a much easier scenario, is there any way I can watch Field Sequential 3D DVDs in combination with LCS glasses on my plasma?

Thanks again guys for eveyone's input it's all helpfull!
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post #14 of 2161 Old 01-24-2007, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm thinking that the refresh ratio on my TVs would make it near impossible. Even if there were a solution the quality would probably be next to non viewable.
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post #15 of 2161 Old 02-13-2007, 08:14 AM
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Just read an article at tvpredictions.com that says the NBA is going to experiment with 3-D at their Allstar game.
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post #16 of 2161 Old 02-13-2007, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the post, that should be pretty interesting to see how it works out. I'll tell you what though, going to an Imax to see an NFL game live in 3D would really be crazy......REALLY CRAZY! - it could almost even be better than actually being at the game as the camera could get right up on the field with the players - now all they need are little stereo cameras mounted inside their helmets and we're really talking, maybe one in the ball too, and a nice bar inside the IMAX theatre serving up caipirinha's with little umbrellas..... Oh, the days of 3D are approaching.
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post #17 of 2161 Old 02-13-2007, 10:02 PM
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The problem with field sequential, is that no matter how good the CRT is it is a analog device and there will be ghosting.

then there is also the problem with interlacing done for normal tvs, it is to much work to rebuild a 3D image that is temporally shifted this is why you get a head ache.

you need to see both right and left images at the same time.

with LCDs being both progressive and digital there is no problems with head or eye fatigue.

what is needed is a odd even polarized mask that is factory alined, this was the hardest part to get right for my display.
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post #18 of 2161 Old 04-11-2007, 08:48 AM
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I have a Sanyo PLV-Z4 projector and I'm wondering if the Sensio 3-D system will work with it.

Thanks,

Roland
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post #19 of 2161 Old 04-11-2007, 09:39 AM
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I know absolutely nothing about 3d, but JVC Pro displayed a tv (modified to make it 3d) with some handy glasses at their exhibit outside of CES 2007. It was in the back of their exhibition hall labeled "Future Technology" or something like that. My buddy and I couldn't get enough of it.

tum
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post #20 of 2161 Old 05-22-2007, 12:44 PM
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Andrew Woods wrote:

Quote:


Samsung releases stereoscopic DLP HDTVs

Samsung recently released what could be a revolutionary stereoscopic 3D
product range into the consumer market - but without much 3D fanfare.
Back in January this year Samsung showed a range of new products at the
2007 Consumer Electronics Show (CES) - one of the products on show was a
DLP rear-projection HDTV which was capable of showing flicker-free
time-sequential stereoscopic images viewed using Liquid-Crystal Shutter
(LCS) 3D glasses. Two Samsung press announcements at the time said,
"Every 2007 DLP model is 3D ready for the next generation Full HD gaming
experience", but gave no hint as to what "3D ready" actually meant.

The Samsung "3D Ready" DLP rear-projection HDTVs were officially
released into the US market at the beginning of April. Samsung offers
six models with the "3D Ready" capability. All six models use an LED
light source rather than a lamp based light source like most DLP TVs and
projectors do. This also means that there is no color-wheel. Presumably
the color-cycle speed is higher than a regular DLP TV but this is not
clear in any of the documentation. All six models offer full HD
resolution 1920x1080. The TVs are available in screen sizes of 50, 56
and 61 inch (indicated by the first two digits in the product number).
The sets come in two series - the 87 series and the 89 series. The only
difference between the 87 and 89 series I have found so far is that the
89 series has a dual tuner; however, there may be other differences.

Samsung "3D Ready" DLP HDTVs:
HL-T5087S US$2299.99 (MRSP); US$1749.99 (Amazon)
HL-T5089S US$2499.99 (MRSP); US$2448.99 (Amazon)
HL-T5687S US$2599.99 (MRSP); US$2199.99 (Amazon)
HL-T5689S US$2799.99 (MRSP); US$2388.00 (Amazon)
HL-T6187S US$2999.99 (MRSP); US$2539.88 (Amazon)
HL-T6189S US$3199.99 (MRSP); US$2687.99 (Amazon)

Unfortunately, even though the product has been released, the meaning of
"3D Ready" has still not been fully outlined. Fortunately the product
manuals for these sets are downloadable from the Samsung website which
does reveal some interesting aspects:
* Page 8 reveals that a 3-pin VESA "3D SYNC OUT" connector for
connecting to "3D IR Emitter" is included on the side of the TV along
with all the other video and audio connectors.
* Page 9 shows there is a "3D" button on the remote control to select
the "3D/Dual-View" mode.
* Page 48 shows a "DLP 3D/Dual-View" entry on the on-screen display.

But unfortunately the full story is still not revealed: Page 53's
explanation of "Using the 3D/Dual-View Function" instructs readers to go
to http://www.samsung.com --> 'PRODUCTS' --> 'HDTV' --> 'DLP TV' and
Click "3D/Dual-View Information" which doesn't actually exist (at the
time of writing this article). What hasn't been revealed yet is how
stereoscopic video signals are input into the TV or what "dual-view" is.

Undoubtedly the reason for the soft 3D release is due to a lack of
availability of stereoscopic HD content and possibly appropriate
playback equipment. It is true that over a thousand PC games can be
played in stereoscopic 3D, but buyers will probably also wish for some
3D video content too. It is unclear whether field-sequential 3D DVDs
will be able to be played directly into this TV, but with the resolution
of the existing 3D DVDs being quite low (only 720x240 per eye) there
will be a desire for higher resolution material. With Samsung being one
of the companies behind the Blu-Ray disc format, it is natural to wonder
whether we will see 3D Blu-Ray discs. Samsung followed with an
announcement on April 25 that from September they will sell a $100
package that will include two pairs of LCS 3D glasses and a 3D emitter
that will hook up to their new "3D Ready" TVs. This is big news for 3D -
stay tuned!

The following article just appeared in the latest (April) edition of 3rd
Dimension Newsletter.
http://www.veritasetvisus.com/3rd_dimension.htm

Also check this avsforum tread:
2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S)
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post #21 of 2161 Old 05-22-2007, 01:50 PM
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In case you have not seen this

Hollywood goes back to the future with 3-D films

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/.../dimension.php

The Future is 3-D

http://cities.expressindia.com/fulls...?newsid=237617

Quote:


Recently, the theatrical viewing experience took a significant leap forward, as Steven Spielberg and Peter Jackson signed on to direct and produce for Paramount's DreamWorks Studios, a trilogy of 3-D movies about the intrepid Belgian comic-book hero, Tintin. And an hour of footage from the 3-D concert film of the Irish rock band U2 made its debut at the Cannes Film Festival.

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post #22 of 2161 Old 05-22-2007, 01:52 PM
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cool but i hate the led shutter glass`s they have far greater problems with eye strain the the glass`s cost far to much.


it would be better to use polarization odd/even line, but that is nearly impossible with a rear projection system. it could work with 2x HD led back lighted lcd sets.
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post #23 of 2161 Old 05-22-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evev12 View Post

It looks like the lack of content may not be a problem after all - http://www.antara.co.id/en/seenws/?id=21137. That's ironic.

I need some posts guys. We need to make the official 3D thread Official. There have been leaps and bounds in the development area of HD3D, I know some of you have to have some knowledge - share it. This is the investment of tomm. After HDTV is gonna come stereoscopic video, we all know it, now let's figure out who's gonna do it first (and start buying some shares).

I thought I'm the only one who reads Antara news service. Do you reside in Indonesia?

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post #24 of 2161 Old 05-22-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricko View Post

I think that if it could be possible to "Convert" a regular 2D movie to a 3D with a processor, 3D could be the next big thing.

Virtual reality interactive movies... now THAT's what I'm waiting for....

C3D used to demo 2D to 3D processor using Jurassic Park LD

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post #25 of 2161 Old 05-22-2007, 05:42 PM
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Nataraj, I knew Spielberg and Jackson were going to produce 2 of the 3 TinTin movies, but had no idea they would be 3D
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post #26 of 2161 Old 05-22-2007, 05:53 PM
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Quote:


it would be better to use polarization odd/even line, but that is nearly impossible with a rear projection system. it could work with 2x HD led back lighted lcd sets.

why odd-even, then you only have 1/2 the resolution.

I like the concept described by tstites

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post10260413
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstites View Post

Yes it is and we'll be showing an HD 3D system using two RS1's at our NAB booth. Either polarization or the Infitec system can be used with the RS1's

two projectors two full 100% 1080p images coming from two projectors (it also doubles the lumens )
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post #27 of 2161 Old 05-23-2007, 07:38 AM
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I'm pretty curious myself if Samsung has a blu-ray 3D plan up its sleeve for later this year. They must have had some idea as to what content could be used for their upcoming 3D package (glasses/transmitter) to go with their '07 LED displays.

In fact, I guess I'm even more curious if the blu-ray group has any 3D plans in general. Given blu-ray's bandwidth, it would be an excellent way for the format to differentiate itself from HD DVD and offer up a different (and most likely better) experience.
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post #28 of 2161 Old 05-24-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7 View Post

In fact, I guess I'm even more curious if the blu-ray group has any 3D plans in general. Given blu-ray's bandwidth, it would be an excellent way for the format to differentiate itself from HD DVD and offer up a different (and most likely better) experience.

Ah, there we are back in the format war, where bluray is promising a lot but is delivering only very little while HD DVD is already delievering 3D with spectacular results:


Format neutral! (prefering HD DVD which is build on quality while blu-ray is build on marketing)
CETERUM CENSEO BLU-RAYEM ESSE DELENDAM!
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post #29 of 2161 Old 06-08-2007, 06:28 AM
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Looks like the Cavaliers are going to throw a 3D party. Setting up 4 TI DLP projectors at the arena. I assume they are going to use RealD's circular polarization method.
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/3d...ty_070609.html
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post #30 of 2161 Old 08-14-2007, 10:59 AM
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