TotalHD - Titles, Dates, Quality? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 01-18-2007, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Just noticed that there weren't any threads devoted to WB's new idea, so I thought I'd start one. Good or bad, I'm very curious to see what results from this project.

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post #2 of 57 Old 01-18-2007, 05:48 PM
 
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There won't be any until the 2nd Half of the Year. And when it happens, supposedly it will be ALL of the titles from WHV (which, of course, includes New Line, HBO, BBC, etc.)

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post #3 of 57 Old 01-18-2007, 06:08 PM
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I hope that the THD will never be launched.

These discs might be a technological feat, but they are the result of a mediocre business decision and they serve no purpose -- other than creating further confusion. As the other Studios likely won't support them, they'll become a third HD standard, they'll cost more than a standalone disc, they'll waste more natural resources and will likely create headaches among retailers. And their design is ugly! Whether we support BD or HD-DVD, we'll end up paying extra for a feature we don't care for.

IMO, the TotalHD is the result of the inability of a Studio to pick a side and try to end the format war. Their only solution is to charge the consumers for the royalties of both standards.
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post #4 of 57 Old 01-18-2007, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azumi View Post

I hope that the THD will never be launched.

These discs might be a technological feat, but they are the result of a mediocre business decision and they serve no purpose -- other than creating further confusion. As the other Studios likely won't support them, they'll become a third HD standard, they'll cost more than a standalone disc, they'll waste more natural resources and will likely create headaches among retailers. And their design is ugly! Whether we support BD or HD-DVD, we'll end up paying extra for a feature we don't care for.

IMO, the TotalHD is the result of the inability of a Studio to pick a side and try to end the format war. Their only solution is to charge the consumers for the royalties of both standards.

Agreed

Blu ray is the best Blah, blah, blah.
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post #5 of 57 Old 01-18-2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azumi View Post

I hope that the THD will never be launched.

These discs might be a technological feat, but they are the result of a mediocre business decision and they serve no purpose -- other than creating further confusion. As the other Studios likely won't support them, they'll become a third HD standard, they'll cost more than a standalone disc, they'll waste more natural resources and will likely create headaches among retailers. And their design is ugly! Whether we support BD or HD-DVD, we'll end up paying extra for a feature we don't care for.

IMO, the TotalHD is the result of the inability of a Studio to pick a side and try to end the format war. Their only solution is to charge the consumers for the royalties of both standards.


That is Microsofts goal.. Create confusion and delay the adoption of the next optical format Blu-Ray. Then they will come in and try to convince people to pay $6.00 to download a HD-movie in 720P. Bad strategy considering $10.00 a month form Blockbuster or Netflix gets you 6-8 Blu-Ray movies a month. As long as Blockbuster and Netflix are around downloads will do as well as buying movies from the cable companies.. Not good.

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post #6 of 57 Old 01-18-2007, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azumi View Post

I hope that the THD will never be launched.

These discs might be a technological feat, but they are the result of a mediocre business decision and they serve no purpose -- other than creating further confusion. As the other Studios likely won't support them, they'll become a third HD standard, they'll cost more than a standalone disc, they'll waste more natural resources and will likely create headaches among retailers. And their design is ugly! Whether we support BD or HD-DVD, we'll end up paying extra for a feature we don't care for.

IMO, the TotalHD is the result of the inability of a Studio to pick a side and try to end the format war. Their only solution is to charge the consumers for the royalties of both standards.

I'm curious at the possible pricing for these. $29.99?, $39.99?, $49.99?

"We did not have business relations with that company, Fuh Yuan."
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post #7 of 57 Old 01-18-2007, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nic17 View Post

That is Microsofts goal.. Create confusion and delay the adoption of the next optical format Blu-Ray. Then they will come in and try to convince people to pay $6.00 to download a HD-movie in 720P. Bad strategy considering $10.00 a month form Blockbuster or Netflix gets you 6-8 Blu-Ray movies a month. As long as Blockbuster and Netflix are around downloads will do as well as buying movies from the cable companies.. Not good.


Microsoft's got nothing to do with Total HD. How does Microsoft always get inserted as villian in every thread?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azumi View Post

I hope that the THD will never be launched.

These discs might be a technological feat, but they are the result of a mediocre business decision and they serve no purpose -- other than creating further confusion. As the other Studios likely won't support them, they'll become a third HD standard, they'll cost more than a standalone disc, they'll waste more natural resources and will likely create headaches among retailers. And their design is ugly! Whether we support BD or HD-DVD, we'll end up paying extra for a feature we don't care for.

IMO, the TotalHD is the result of the inability of a Studio to pick a side and try to end the format war. Their only solution is to charge the consumers for the royalties of both standards.

Is it really a studios job to end format wars? That's not their core competency. They produce and distribute movies..what training do they have regarding format wars? I keep reading about confusion but what's confusing about telling a consumer "Hey ...this disc plays on both HD players" ? Do you all really think consumers are that stupid? They have to compare products at every step. Consumer are well versed in going through the pro/cons of making buying decision. I really don't confusion is really going to be a factor at all.

We don't know if other studios will use THD. You could be right ..you could be wrong. Warner has stated that there are no additional "material costs" so think it's safe to say your environmental argument holds no merit. As for retailers Best Buy, Amazon and Circuit City approve of Total HD. It reduces their inventory from 2 SKU to 1 for a particular HD movie.

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8411.cfm

I think there might be a premium for Total HD but I don't think it's going to be that large. Once you have a studio shipping Total HD you cut your shipments in half and your marketing dollars can be reduced as you simply advertise your HD movie rather than targeted marketing towards HD DVD and Blu-ray.

There really is little downside other than cost and potential problems with manufacturing. Studios shouldn't be making decision to end the war. They should allow the consumer to choose. That's how you keep consumers happy.
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post #8 of 57 Old 01-18-2007, 09:56 PM
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agreed.

I'm all for it.
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post #9 of 57 Old 01-18-2007, 10:30 PM
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They should sell separate Blu Ray and HD DVD versions and let the software numbers determine which format they ultimately support.

Just how in the hell are they supposed to determine which format is selling more if both HD DVD and Blu Ray users buy the same SKU?

The studios will never know at what point releasing on one platform would be more profitable than pressing these dual format discs because they will have no hard statistical data showing them which format is selling more copies.

The added costs to the customer (as has been hinted at by Warner) will repel some buyers from both camps.

Many people who will buy Total HD discs will be very unhappy in feeling that they are paying extra for something they do not want or need.

Production costs will be greater to the studios.

I am also curious as to why Sony isn't suing the pants off of Warner for playing around with their BD patents?

One would think that Warner is supposed to just ship their movies off to BD replication lines, yet they somehow know enough about the physical manufacturing process of the BluRay disc to have created Total HD.

Is the BD manufacturing process public domain now? Or is Warner really working with Sony on this one?
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post #10 of 57 Old 01-19-2007, 03:20 AM
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If everyone went neutral then Total HD would be a great product!
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post #11 of 57 Old 01-19-2007, 03:44 AM
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As long as TotalHD can support BD50, and studios are not crippled into using only 30 or even 25gigs, then I'll be ok with it.
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post #12 of 57 Old 01-19-2007, 07:37 AM
 
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THD is Warner's way of still getting a piece of the revenue pie due to the patents they hold on HD DVD. They are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. I would guess that a majority of owners of both formats want this bastardized standard to go away. I am not going to pay a premium for something I don't want. I will only rent these titles if they charge a premium for them.
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post #13 of 57 Old 01-19-2007, 10:32 AM
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Yes I'd like to see the idea ditchd as well. If I buy any I know ill be making my own cases which will add 1-5 bucks to the overall price for me.

Otherwise I may import what I can, I see many of the UK discs are only HD and not HD/DVD combos..

Yep will only confuse pepole will they put the name on each side of the disc (inner ring) or just one side if so which side.
Ex: BD side A, HD-DVD side B

Hopfully they don't lack, theve been doing good with true HD and PQ so far...

So I wonder of total HD or sony was to blame for key titlles be delyed. Both matrix and harry potter were to be 2006 tittles. But did sony pay them off to wait so they could catch up the BD versions or are all these tittles coming to totalHD. Of the WB movies not on BD will those be totalHD or just BD..
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post #14 of 57 Old 01-19-2007, 11:30 AM
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Quote:


THD is Warner's way of still getting a piece of the revenue pie due to the patents they hold on HD DVD. They are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts.

I am not so sure anymore. I would still like to know the details of Warner's relationship with Sony that allowed them access to BD patents to develop this dual format media.

Perhaps it was a condition to Warner's BD and HD neutrality that Sony assist them with developing this Total HD media?

Maybe Time Warner, one of the Nation's largest cable service operators, has their eye on delivering HD movies on demand to all of their subscribers? Total HD discs and format neutrality will weaken both HD and BD formats and Time Warner might have their eye on something else as their money maker?
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post #15 of 57 Old 02-14-2007, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Microsoft's got nothing to do with Total HD. How does Microsoft always get inserted as villian in every thread?

Probably because the tactics (marketing and forum-users') of the HD-DVD camp seems to mirror MS'? Get them out there and fast, and side with the publishers and the manufacturers instead of the consumers and when the "vast majority" becomes a reality, convince the customers they can feel good about their "choice".


Quote:


There really is little downside other than cost and potential problems with manufacturing. Studios shouldn't be making decision to end the war. They should allow the consumer to choose. That's how you keep consumers happy.

OH, "ONLY" the downsides of *cost* and *manufacturing problems*? Isn't that the gripe the HD-DVD camp uses about blu-ray?

You keep customers happy by offering nicer things, not by blasting noise all over the topic (how many different Vistas are there?) and calling that "choice".

For myself, I don't want more choice, I just want nicer things.
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post #16 of 57 Old 02-14-2007, 06:01 PM
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I don't care what Sony or Warner or Microsoft are doing. Dual formats is not the answer. To take on and displace DVD, high definition content needs a single banner to rally around or both formats fail. TotalHD prolongs the format war, and for that reason alone I oppose it.
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post #17 of 57 Old 02-14-2007, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icemage View Post

TotalHD prolongs the format war, and for that reason alone I oppose it.

what if universal starts releasing on total hd?? Would that prolong the war? I would think that would end it.


Also,

If one format dies, HD or BD, isn't the remaining format able to just charge whatever the hell they want?
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post #18 of 57 Old 02-14-2007, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by laserguns View Post

If one format dies, HD or BD, isn't the remaining format able to just charge whatever the hell they want?

DVD is completely dominant. It was qualitatively better than VHS by as much as high definition formats are above DVD (arguable, true, but it's a good approximation). Do you consider DVD to be overpriced?

Internal competition between content providers, hardware manufacturers, etc. have forced most DVD prices down, aside from the occasional standout items like boxed sets of Star Wars DVDs. The same thing happened with VHS and DVD. To reach a mass market, these formats must bring pricing down to a level that J6P can afford.

Granted, the current format war has done wonders for bringing prices down and spurring innovation, but I suggest that we have reached a point of stability for both formats. There is a fair amount of hardware out there now that very likely will become incompatible if the specifications change (this is already becoming partially true with Blu-ray with respect to things like BD-Live and PiP on the early BD standalones, and the vaunted 51GB triple layer HD-DVDs also fall into this category - it doesn't even exist in the specification, with no proof that such discs could ever be played on currently available technology). There's really not much new innovation that can happen without alienating part of the user base at this point now that both formats are released.

Nonetheless, I find the fears that many people have of overly inflated pricing to be dubious. The studios and CE manufacturers know that, regardless of who wins this format war (if anyone), there remains an even greater uphill battle in convincing the general public to embrace HD content.

P.S. Universal adopting TotalHD would be effectively equivalent to Universal going neutral and releasing on both formats. TotalHD is not a necessity in this scenario.
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post #19 of 57 Old 02-14-2007, 07:34 PM
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Sorry - yet another THD discussion?

As I see it, BD fans hate the thing, since they don't want any studios publishing in both formats. THD represents a perceived threat to BD people, since it allows Studios to publish to both formats in one production run, doubling their market size and halving their risk on any particular release. I think that some BD fans fear that if BD-exclusive studios are drawn to THD, the HD DVD player price advantages will win the "war".

I support THD on two caveats - 1) that it doesn't cause the delay of any HD releases by having to wait for the BD version, and 2) that it is an equivalent price to the regular options plus or minus.

There's really no other main issues - the whole two-sided thing is an overblown issue, IMO, I don't really care what is printed on the disc as it's going to be spinning around in the player anyway - I don't spend the movie staring at the disc, nor any other part of my free time either.
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post #20 of 57 Old 02-14-2007, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I support THD on two caveats - 1) that it doesn't cause the delay of any HD releases by having to wait for the BD version, and 2) that it is an equivalent price to the regular options plus or minus.

There's really no other main issues...

Would you have any problem with Universal starting to use THD discs in the US and Japan?

BTW: You can see how the "Tokyo Drift" release that came out today in Japan on HD DVD is doing for them here:

http://nolist.jp/bdvshddvd/

As I look at it, it is currently ranked at #2309 on Amazon in Japan. That is 2nd place amongst HD DVDs, but the 10th ranked BD is at #1289.

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post #21 of 57 Old 02-15-2007, 06:05 AM
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If anyone really used Japan as a judge, we'd all be toting around Mini-Disc players instead of iPods. MiniDisc was huge over there, but it meant absolutely nothing to the rest of the world.

Much as desperate BD fans keep pointing at Bluray's success in it's home market, it means nothing to the rest of the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Would you have any problem with Universal starting to use THD discs in the US and Japan?

BTW: You can see how the "Tokyo Drift" release that came out today in Japan on HD DVD is doing for them here:

http://nolist.jp/bdvshddvd/

As I look at it, it is currently ranked at #2309 on Amazon in Japan. That is 2nd place amongst HD DVDs, but the 10th ranked BD is at #1289.

--Darin

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post #22 of 57 Old 02-15-2007, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

I am not so sure anymore. I would still like to know the details of Warner's relationship with Sony that allowed them access to BD patents to develop this dual format media.

Perhaps it was a condition to Warner's BD and HD neutrality that Sony assist them with developing this Total HD media?

Maybe Time Warner, one of the Nation's largest cable service operators, has their eye on delivering HD movies on demand to all of their subscribers? Total HD discs and format neutrality will weaken both HD and BD formats and Time Warner might have their eye on something else as their money maker?

Did Sony assist WB? Anyone know for sure?

If so, then it shows that Sony has learned from the Betamax/VHS history. Back in the day, Sony refused to allow 3rd parties to develop any new technology based on Betamax whether it was to better the format or not. JVC, on the other hand, encouraged it. The flexibility from JVC added to the growth of VHS which ultimately won the war (along with massive advertisement and gaining studio support... which Sony has also been doing).

EDIT: On the other hand, maybe any Blu-ray contract/patents doesn't include the usage of the other side of the disc. A loophole that WB could have used to develop TotalHD.

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post #23 of 57 Old 02-15-2007, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nic17 View Post

That is Microsofts goal.. Create confusion and delay the adoption of the next optical format Blu-Ray.

WTH??? What does Microsoft have to do with this? this is all Warner's idea and personally, I think it is a good one.

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post #24 of 57 Old 02-15-2007, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nox View Post

Did Sony assist WB? Anyone know for sure?

If so, then it shows that Sony has learned from the Betamax/VHS history. Back in the day, Sony refused to allow 3rd parties to develop any new technology based on Betamax whether it was to better the format or not. JVC, on the other hand, encouraged it. The flexibility from JVC added to the growth of VHS which ultimately won the war (along with massive advertisement and gaining studio support... which Sony has also been doing).

EDIT: On the other hand, maybe any Blu-ray contract/patents doesn't include the usage of the other side of the disc. A loophole that WB could have used to develop TotalHD.

Technically, it would be BDA, and not Sony. But your point still has merit, however I do not believe the BDA has the ability to stop Warner legally, and if they did, would it not look like they are standing in the way of Warner trying to offer a solution to the format war? At one time there was rumor of threats from the BD side against LG's dual format player and when it came down to it, nobody from the Blu-Ray side stepped in the way of that. I don't think they like it, but I don't think they have the power to do anything about it.

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post #25 of 57 Old 02-16-2007, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

If anyone really used Japan as a judge, we'd all be toting around Mini-Disc players instead of iPods. MiniDisc was huge over there, but it meant absolutely nothing to the rest of the world.

Much as desperate BD fans keep pointing at Bluray's success in it's home market, it means nothing to the rest of the world.

Amir seemed to understand that Japan was one of the places that mattered for HD DVD back in September, so it is interesting to see how much you and he downplay it now that HD DVD is doing so poorly there. You write about people at these studios needing to be responsible to their shareholders and not miss out on sales for HD DVD, so do you feel that Universal should ignore most of the HD disc market in Japan over the next couple or few years by not releasing on Blu-ray there, if things continue in the direction they seem to be going between the formats in Japan?

But back to the question that you ignored the part most relevant to this thread. I'll take the Japan part out. You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

As I see it, BD fans hate the thing, since they don't want any studios publishing in both format.

and that you support it other than those 2 caveats you gave, so:
Quote:


Would you have any problem with Universal starting to use THD discs in the US?

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post #26 of 57 Old 02-16-2007, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Would you have any problem with Universal starting to use THD discs in the US?

Not even the same thing. Universal is exclusive. Paramount, Warner are not. Why would you even ask such a stupid question trying to tie the two together. Let me ask you... Would you support Disney or Fox going THD? NO. Jeez, come up with a real comparison next time.

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post #27 of 57 Old 02-16-2007, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

Not even the same thing. Universal is exclusive. Paramount, Warner are not. Why would you even ask such a stupid question trying to tie the two together. Let me ask you... Would you support Disney or Fox going THD? NO. Jeez, come up with a real comparison next time.

Actually that was a valid question to rdjam...he mentioned that BD Fans are afraid of THD because it might make BD exclusives go neutral and have the lower cost of HD DVD players "win" the "war"...
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post #28 of 57 Old 02-16-2007, 04:16 PM
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Actually that was a valid question to rdjam...he mentioned that BD Fans are afraid of THD because it might make BD exclusives go neutral and have the lower cost of HD DVD players "win" the "war"...

OK, I missed that. I revoke my comments as in that context the question is valid. Personally I'd like to see all studios (except Sony will never do it) go THD. I actually like that there is a format war as I believe the competition is good for consumers. What I don't like are companies picking sides and teaming up against one another with their backroom deals, incentives, and cuts. I'd really like to see the federal government take a close look into some of the things that have to be going on here. Although, what will happen then is the U.S. government will sue the crap out of Microsoft while Sony hides behind the Japanese governments protections.

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It should be called Violet-Ray

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post #29 of 57 Old 02-16-2007, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

OK, I missed that. I revoke my comments as in that context the question is valid.

My respect level for you just went up.
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Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

Personally I'd like to see all studios (except Sony will never do it) go THD. I actually like that there is a format war as I believe the competition is good for consumers. What I don't like are companies picking sides and teaming up against one another with their backroom deals, incentives, and cuts. I'd really like to see the federal government take a close look into some of the things that have to be going on here. Although, what will happen then is the U.S. government will sue the crap out of Microsoft while Sony hides behind the Japanese governments protections.

This is an area where I wonder if the EU has enough power to check into it and take action. I suspect that it is legal to have incentives to get a studio to support a format, but it is things that try to keep them from supporting the other format where either side could get in trouble.

--Darin

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post #30 of 57 Old 02-16-2007, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Azumi View Post

I hope that the THD will never be launched.

These discs might be a technological feat, but they are the result of a mediocre business decision and they serve no purpose -- other than creating further confusion.

Cause confusion??? How do you figure. If it is THD, you buy it, take it home, and put it in your player NO MATTER WHAT FORMAT YOU HAVE!

THD is the greatest thing since sliced bread. What are you afraid of? It counting as a sale for both formats? Who cares!!! At least it won't be a coaster if one format does eventually become dominant or standard.

Last Watched 3D: Oz the Great and Powerful

It should be called Violet-Ray

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