Blu-ray, HD-DVD & SD DVD Comparison Screenshots *WARNING - LARGE PICTURE FILES* - Page 26 - AVS Forum
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post #751 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_TC View Post

Please folks, it's really not that hard to figure out

When you look at these screenshots on your computer screen, your viewing distance is probably smaller than the image width (!)
In my case I'm looking at the screenshots from a distance of about 0.8x image width because that's how close my screen is.

Now I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that none of you views movies from this close. Even in my front projection room, I'm sitting at roughly 1.5x image width.

So, long story short. You're likely gonna have to back up from your computer screen quite a bit, and you'll find out that the SD screenshots are starting to look better.
Alternatively, you can move closer than normal to your plasma and find out that SD really is every bit as bad as this thread depicts.

Thank you for your input, but SD looks better from 3 feet from my 65 inch screen.

Tell you what, I will not try to tell you what you see with your eyes

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post #752 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_TC View Post

Please folks, it's really not that hard to figure out

When you look at these screenshots on your computer screen, your viewing distance is probably smaller than the image width (!)
.....

Alternatively, you can move closer than normal to your plasma and find out that SD really is every bit as bad as this thread depicts.

You must have missed this in my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Even if I look at these screen shots from a distance that mimics the same field of view I get on my plasma, these SD screen shots still look significantly softer.


The effect of viewing SD larger or closer is pretty obvious, so you might want
to consider some of us would already take that into account. Even with it taken into account, I'm perplexed by these SD shots.

In fact, I just tested this again. Using a tape measure I viewed SD DVDs on my plasma and compared them to the SD DVD shots on this thread, maintaining exactly the same field of view. Including some of the exact shots (e.g. HellBoy's face). And the images I see at my home (as on many displays) is indeed easily sharper. As I said, aside from the plasma I'm also viewing SD on a very big projected image from close up and still find SD often looks better than what I see on this thread. I've also watched plenty of SD quite close to a 65"
plasma and it was sharper and more detailed looking than these screen shots.

Even when I moved in closer to my plasma than the field of view I'm using for these screen shots, sharpness and detail remained. For instance, the fine texture or pattern on people's clothes remains well defined, whereas on all these screen shots you don't get that - all textures are softened over. (That's one of the first things I noticed about the screen shots).

Hence my comments weren't winging it without thought.
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post #753 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 12:47 PM
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post #754 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Maybe it's the contrast of having the HD versions right here making the SD versions look soft...

BINGO!

and among other things . . . . .
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post #755 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 12:59 PM
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Sheesh, is no-one reading what RichB and I are writing?

It's not the contrast to the HD shots that make us think the SD shots aren't right, it's the contrast to what we are used to seeing with decent SD transfers on good displays.

Remember...I wasn't comparing it to the HD shots; I just finished writing that I compared the detail and sharpness of the SD screen shots to SD DVDs on my plasma, using the same viewing ratio! And SD DVD on my plasma consistently held a sharper, "tighter" detail than what I see in these SD DVD shots. (Which is right in line with what I'm used to seeing with SD DVD on plenty of other displays, large and small).
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post #756 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

BINGO!

and among other things . . . . .

...I guess it's leave it...

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post #757 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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When viewing DVDs using your TV or PJ, they use their own video processing to enhance and improve the PQ of a SD material. If you make an A/B comparison of different brand or model TVs the resulting image will not be identical. In addition using external VPs (video processors) will further give you better image than before. In the end comparing what you see on your TV against the screenshots here wil be different.

The digital screengrabs you see here is as raw as I can manage to show a level playing field for everyone. SD on one side, HD on the other, viewing them simultaneously on the same monitor.
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post #758 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

The digital screengrabs you see here is as raw as I can manage to show a level playing field for everyone.

...except for the filtered upscaling of the sd frame. Understandably, this is pretty much a requirement in order to view both samples at the same physical size, but nonetheless, it does introduce its own pq loss.

The most "level" playing field would have been to display the sd sample at its native resolution state.

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post #759 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

The most "level" playing field would have been to display the sd sample at its native resolution state.

You mean something like this?

(Click for fullsize)


The SD version has been upscaled using nearest neighbor. This is as close as you're going to get to a direct comparison of what's actually on the disc.

Is this more representative of what kind of a difference the viewer will see with SD discs on his HD setup? Probably not. Somewhere along the line, the SD image is being filtered on its way to a 1080p set, whether it's an upscaling DVD player, or an LCD upscaling to fit native res. The quality of that filtering will vary from setup to setup, but it's definitely not going to look this jagged. It's going to look smoother, and as a byproduct, blurrier.

So really, the question is, do we want to compare the media itself, or how it's going to look to the average viewer?
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post #760 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 10:01 PM
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actually that looks pretty good lol (all things considered)
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post #761 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp4sm View Post

You mean something like this?

(Click for fullsize)


The SD version has been upscaled using nearest neighbor. This is as close as you're going to get to a direct comparison of what's actually on the disc.

Is this more representative of what kind of a difference the viewer will see with SD discs on his HD setup? Probably not. Somewhere along the line, the SD image is being filtered on its way to a 1080p set, whether it's an upscaling DVD player, or an LCD upscaling to fit native res. The quality of that filtering will vary from setup to setup, but it's definitely not going to look this jagged. It's going to look smoother, and as a byproduct, blurrier.

So really, the question is, do we want to compare the media itself, or how it's going to look to the average viewer?

Is that upconverted? I agree, unless you zoom in all the way it looks extremely good. The only difference I see is that the SD version is a bit brighter than the HD version (and of course has jagged edges). Sadly, the added brightness also adds to the illusion of more detail. Unless you zoom all the way in of course.

If you zoom all the way in, it looks like total crap. :P But who watches their television from 2-3 feet away usually? Most people I know are usually 6+ feet away on a 40-60 inch TV.
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post #762 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkwhite View Post

The only difference I see is that the SD version is a bit brighter than the HD version

Er... Sorry, I did an auto-contrast on the SD version to more closely match Xylon's HD grab. Here is how it looked originally.

Maybe Will would provide a better example.

This shot is full size, SD upconverted with nearest neighbor, and NOT adjusted to match HD's contrast.

Personally, I see a huge difference, and am glad SD looks softer than this on my 1080p XBR LCD.
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post #763 of 1010 Old 10-14-2007, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

When I saw DMC in the theater I thought Davy Jones was a guy with a really complicated animatronic mask with maybe some cg tentacles added in post. Later on I found out the whole thing was cg.

Yeah, it was some of the best CGI I've ever seen. King Kong's CGI was just awful in comparison (of course most CGI is pretty bad compared to Davey's face).

It looked absolutely real in almost every shot.
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post #764 of 1010 Old 10-15-2007, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Thank you for your input, but SD looks better from 3 feet from my 65 inch screen.

Tell you what, I will not try to tell you what you see with your eyes

Unless you think that Xylon artificially softens or downgrades the SD screenshots, there's only two explanations:

a) your computer screen is a CRT which always gives a softer image than a digital display
b) your TV's sharpening setting is cranked up all the way, and you confuse this for more detail
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post #765 of 1010 Old 10-15-2007, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

... regarding the SD shots: they just don't really seem to fully represent how lots of SD DVDs really look. The SD shots in this thread are significantly softer than what I see in many SD DVDs. ...

I am sure that this is also because they are freeze-frames. I have often experienced that if you pause a video, it looks a lot more flawed (compression artifacts, grain, motion blur). If video is played back, the details "blend into each other" and you think you see a sharper, clearer image. Also: computer monitors often have the equivalent of 720p resolution or higher (I´m looking at it in full 1080p ). If you watch DVDs on a 720p Television from a few feet away, of course it will look sharper.

So in a way, you are right: These images don´t represent what most people see in their home-theater setup. But when I watch DVDs on my 1080p monitor up close, it can get really ugly.

I´ve said it many times and I´ll say it again: HD is all about size!
I have to make that my signature.

I´m from Austria so ignore bad spelling and grammar, please. :)
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post #766 of 1010 Old 10-15-2007, 11:28 AM
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Xylon,

any comparisons for Transformers SD and HD?

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post #767 of 1010 Old 10-21-2007, 09:39 PM
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Any 28 Days Later comparisons? Thanks in advance...

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post #768 of 1010 Old 10-24-2007, 06:16 AM
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The Shining, please.
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post #769 of 1010 Old 10-24-2007, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowlander View Post

I am sure that this is also because they are freeze-frames. I have often experienced that if you pause a video, it looks a lot more flawed (compression artifacts, grain, motion blur). If video is played back, the details "blend into each other" and you think you see a sharper, clearer image. Also: computer monitors often have the equivalent of 720p resolution or higher (I´m looking at it in full 1080p ). If you watch DVDs on a 720p Television from a few feet away, of course it will look sharper.

So in a way, you are right: These images don´t represent what most people see in their home-theater setup. But when I watch DVDs on my 1080p monitor up close, it can get really ugly.

I´ve said it many times and I´ll say it again: HD is all about size!
I have to make that my signature.

Yeah.. on my screen (107inch) DVD actually look worst than those shot here, it i'am at 11 feet distance.. HD look shining .. DVD very bad depanding on the transfert...

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #770 of 1010 Old 10-24-2007, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_TC View Post

Unless you think that Xylon artificially softens or downgrades the SD screenshots, there's only two explanations:

a) your computer screen is a CRT which always gives a softer image than a digital display
b) your TV's sharpening setting is cranked up all the way, and you confuse this for more detail

a) It is a 65" Plasma.
b) I run in as a monitor (no sharpness) and have both TheaterTek with ATI and NVidia cards look better. Also, with a Lumagen Radiance and Lumagen HDQ scaler (no additional sharpening). I calibrate it with DVE and there is no edge enhancement.



I do not think that " Xylon artificially softens or downgrades the SD screenshots" using your words.

However, SD can look much better than the images seen here. I hope that does not upset people, but try some TheaterTEK or a scaler and you should be able to see for yourself.

If not, let's leave it at that.

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post #771 of 1010 Old 10-28-2007, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp4sm View Post

You mean something like this?

(Click for fullsize)


The black level is different between the two versions, affecting the perceived level of contrast. If you open up the image in a new tab/window and view it at full size, you see that the black level is different between the two. On my computer monitor, the "black" in the SD appears grey, while the "black" on the Blu-Ray appears as "black."


I opened up the image in Photoshop (Elements), selected the left half, and changed the Levels, "Input" from 0 to 6. This made the black bars look black, matching the right side.

Here's the updated image:
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post #772 of 1010 Old 11-18-2007, 11:10 AM
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Just a thanks to Xylon for those comparisons. I loved looking through this thread.
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post #773 of 1010 Old 12-02-2007, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Standard definition.................................................. ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ...High Definition
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post #774 of 1010 Old 12-02-2007, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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post #775 of 1010 Old 12-02-2007, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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post #776 of 1010 Old 12-02-2007, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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post #777 of 1010 Old 12-02-2007, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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post #778 of 1010 Old 12-02-2007, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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post #779 of 1010 Old 12-02-2007, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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post #780 of 1010 Old 12-02-2007, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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