Blu-ray, HD-DVD & HD Broadcasts(H.264 & MPEG-2) Screenshots*BIG FILES* - Page 31 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #901 of 2128 Old 07-08-2007, 07:47 AM
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Ouch, not as bad as TRAFFIC, but BIG LEBOWSKI defineately looks terrible.
Effective detail is between 720p and 576p, and way below what 1080p offers.
Definitely looks upsampled, with the soft sharpening artifacts.

Still one hell of a movie though...
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post #902 of 2128 Old 07-08-2007, 08:30 AM
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Now I'm really curious what titles like Dragonheart, Dante's Peak, Daylight, Liar Liar, etc look like compared to their broadcast versions since Universal is apparently grabbing whatever HD master is sitting on their shelf, no matter how old it is. It's like a box of chocolates over there.

Here's some comparisons I stumbled upon of The Frighteners HD-DVD vs the open matte UHD broadcast. Fortunately they didn't screw this one up, mostly because the UHD version looks really bad with the desaturating and pathetic bitrate.

<-Broadcast Mpeg-2 / HD-DVD VC-1->


<-Broadcast Mpeg-2 / HD-DVD VC-1->


<-Broadcast Mpeg-2 / HD-DVD VC-1->
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post #903 of 2128 Old 07-08-2007, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.holck View Post

Ouch, not as bad as TRAFFIC, but BIG LEBOWSKI defineately looks terrible.
Effective detail is between 720p and 576p, and way below what 1080p offers.
Definitely looks upsampled, with the soft sharpening artifacts.

Still one hell of a movie though...

I disagree. I think Big Lebowski probably looks as good as it can considering the master. I base this on preservation of fine film grain throughout the film. It looks heck of a lot better than Traffic.

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post #904 of 2128 Old 07-08-2007, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

DNR doesn't need to be applied when downsampling from 4k to 2k, which was what I was referring to.

It's not a 2K or 4K issue whether DNR has to be applied or not. Actually DNR has never to be applied IMHO if a proper film master is used. But apart from that going from 4K to 2K does not turn a grainy film into clean and smooth baby skin film. All it does is to remove the highest frequencies from the grain. The 2K looks a bit less noisy than the 4K, or the standard 2K versus the 2K from 4K. But if the film master is such that the people pushing buttons wring their hands in despair looking at the 4K or regular 2K and call out for the DNR police to crush down the noisy rebellion they won't be suddenly purring with joy when looking at the 2K from 4K. It's still noisy/grainy.
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post #905 of 2128 Old 07-08-2007, 03:02 PM
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I was thinking of bringing this topic back up...seems like there should be some Matrix movies shots by now, right? I think the most compelling scene we could examine is from the 1st movie where Trinity is swinging in on a rope (after bailing out from the helicopter) and the glass building behind her shatters into a brilliant burst of a zillion shards. Anybody game to post that shot?

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post #906 of 2128 Old 07-08-2007, 11:57 PM
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I'm eagerly awaiting the TFE vs the updated TFE comparison. But I have to wait for someone to actually get it first, heh.
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post #907 of 2128 Old 07-09-2007, 12:00 AM
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It appears to already be underway, if you go to the BR software forum.

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post #908 of 2128 Old 07-09-2007, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

It appears to already be underway, if you go to the BR software forum.

thanks for the tip.
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post #909 of 2128 Old 07-09-2007, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

I was thinking of bringing this topic back up...seems like there should be some Matrix movies shots by now, right?

I think there's already some Matrix shots pages ago or they might be in the other thread.

Here's some shots I've found that compare the open mate version shown on HBO vs the HD-DVD version. As you can see there are differences in color timing, contrast, etc.

<-Broadcast Mpeg-2 / HD-DVD VC-1->


<-Broadcast Mpeg-2 / HD-DVD VC-1->


<-Broadcast Mpeg-2 / HD-DVD VC-1->


<-Broadcast Mpeg-2 / HD-DVD VC-1->
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post #910 of 2128 Old 07-09-2007, 02:51 AM
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The broacast Matrix pics are not proper progressive.
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post #911 of 2128 Old 07-09-2007, 03:03 AM
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I think the jaggies are because of issues that other early Warner HD transfers exhibit. Like every 3rd lines is missing, resulting in lower horizontal resolution.

Maybe Xylon has this old version somewhere to confirm.
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post #912 of 2128 Old 07-09-2007, 08:47 AM
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Ok, I must have missed those! ops: I still would like to see the Trinity in a burst of glass shards scene, though...

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post #913 of 2128 Old 07-13-2007, 07:53 PM
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Xylon, how 'bout some new pics?
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post #914 of 2128 Old 07-13-2007, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

The broacast Matrix pics are not proper progressive.

They also come from the old (original) master without the new color timing supervised by the Watchowski Brothers to match the sequels.

I think a comparison of the sequels would be better.

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post #915 of 2128 Old 07-14-2007, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xradman View Post

I disagree. I think Big Lebowski probably looks as good as it can considering the master. I base this on preservation of fine film grain throughout the film. It looks heck of a lot better than Traffic.

I don't think so. I'm rather sure the camera negative holds quite some more resolution than is on the HD. The transfer looks outdated with fine detail missing altogether. Effective resolution between 480p and ~720p. I'd be surprised if this transfer was made in the last 3-4 years. And certainly not from the best element available (original negative).
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post #916 of 2128 Old 07-15-2007, 03:55 AM - Thread Starter
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World Trade Center

29.60 GB Mpeg-2 ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ 22.90 GB VC-1
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post #917 of 2128 Old 07-15-2007, 09:09 AM
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the new "World Trade Center" screenshot is now also online as mouseover ...

http://hd-discs.mbmg.de/worldtradece...-vs-hd/01.html
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post #918 of 2128 Old 07-15-2007, 12:31 PM
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Anyone else feel a little chest stab when they see that imagery?

(I have WTC on BD)

That said the BD version is sharper, the HD DVD looks like it had a DNR pass on it before compression.

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post #919 of 2128 Old 07-15-2007, 12:32 PM
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The BRD is definitely noisier and more artifacty. The vc-1 is smoother and a little softer in the details. Well, that sucks too. This title needs an unfiltered avc encode.
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post #920 of 2128 Old 07-16-2007, 03:17 PM
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Are all these broadcast mpeg2 from recordings on DVRs? And if so can't that hurt the quality compared to the original broadcast?
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post #921 of 2128 Old 07-16-2007, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyB View Post

Are all these broadcast mpeg2 from recordings on DVRs? And if so can't that hurt the quality compared to the original broadcast?

I think that typically, the Mpeg captures here are the direct satellite stream (recorded via R5000HD). As such they are not decoded then re-encoded, but are the original quality that was broadcast. R5000HD let's you use your PC as a DVR.
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post #922 of 2128 Old 07-17-2007, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I think that typically, the Mpeg captures here are the direct satellite stream (recorded via R5000HD). As such they are not decoded then re-encoded, but are the original quality that was broadcast. R5000HD let's you use your PC as a DVR.

Oh, ok, so it's not re-encoding it like an analog signal, but more like a direct transfer to the hard drive.
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post #923 of 2128 Old 07-17-2007, 03:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyB View Post

Are all these broadcast mpeg2 from recordings on DVRs? And if so can't that hurt the quality compared to the original broadcast?

Every picture you see here is captured in its native broadcast form. There is no re-encoding here. What you see is what you get.
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post #924 of 2128 Old 07-17-2007, 06:55 PM
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The MPEG "looks" sharper, but I can't see any area in the VC-1 encode that looks like it is missing detail. I am not sure, but it looks like the MPEGs additional sharpness may be related to artifacts.
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post #925 of 2128 Old 07-17-2007, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickTop View Post

The MPEG "looks" sharper, but I can't see any area in the VC-1 encode that looks like it is missing detail. I am not sure, but it looks like the MPEGs additional sharpness may be related to artifacts.

A good example would be the brown "14th Street" sign on the traffic light.
It's somewhat legible in the BD version.

Don't mistake film grain for "artifacts". The BD has an average bitrate of 25-35Mbps.

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post #926 of 2128 Old 07-17-2007, 09:07 PM
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I don't like either version, so far. Whatever advantage the BRD has over the HD-DVD is ruined by artifacting, and whatever advantage the HD-DVD has over the BRD is cancelled by filtering and softness.
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post #927 of 2128 Old 07-17-2007, 10:52 PM
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I'd agree that the Blu Ray version is slightly sharper than the HD DVD version but has a some artifacts........really though, when you're watching the movie, they wouldn't be that noticible at all.....I rented this on Blu Ray a few months ago and it looked great!

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post #928 of 2128 Old 07-18-2007, 01:24 AM - Thread Starter
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post #929 of 2128 Old 07-18-2007, 02:25 PM
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The BRD certainly has more compression noise but what are these weird blurry "patches" on the HD-DVD version?



It's also disturbing to see another vc-1 encode come out looking softer/filtered than it's ancient mpeg-2 counterpart.
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post #930 of 2128 Old 07-18-2007, 03:30 PM
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Well, notice how the soft patches in vc-1 line up pretty well with wherever the mpeg-2 is "hard" blocking. Seems like the film noise in the sky in both encodes is eating up bitrate resources.

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