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post #1171 of 2128 Old 12-20-2007, 07:24 PM
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Wow, the HD-Net version seems sharper than the rather soft HD DVD version.
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post #1172 of 2128 Old 12-20-2007, 08:14 PM
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The BRD/HD-DVD and the HDNet broadcast have the same level of detail. Just take any of the HDM captures and add a ton of sharpening.
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post #1173 of 2128 Old 12-20-2007, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

The BRD/HD-DVD and the HDNet broadcast have the same level of detail. Just take any of the HDM captures and add a ton of sharpening.

So you get the same effect by using the unsharp mask in photoshop as what EE does?
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post #1174 of 2128 Old 12-20-2007, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

So you get the same effect by using the unsharp mask in photoshop as what EE does?

Yes:
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post #1175 of 2128 Old 12-20-2007, 09:20 PM
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Interesting. It does make sense. This seems to indicate that a certain amount of sharpening (EE?) is needed then?

I know that when you use Unsharp Mask in PS, applying too much will cause artifacts. But a certain amount of sharpening is always needed (unless you are having the digital camera do the sharpening, which is not recommended).
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post #1176 of 2128 Old 12-20-2007, 09:52 PM
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Oh c'mon. Even Xylon typed HD-DVD with a dash in the title of this thread and you can't leave out the ray in Blu-ray.
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post #1177 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Oh c'mon. Even Xylon typed HD-DVD with a dash in the title of this thread and you can't leave out the ray in Blu-ray.

Ooops I didn't realize that
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post #1178 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1179 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 01:43 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1180 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 01:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Its not TIER 0 by any means but its the best presentation so far on home video.

The sky is actually sky blue this time
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post #1181 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 02:24 AM
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I'm pretty sure now both come from the same transfer. The HDNet version just has untweaked colors and really cranked EE.

Hopefully someday we'll see a proper transfer from a 70mm source on optimal equipment. If Blade Runner can get the special treatment than surely 2001 can.
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post #1182 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 03:12 AM
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post #1183 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

I'm pretty sure now both come from the same transfer. The HDNet version just has untweaked colors and really cranked EE.

Hopefully someday we'll see a proper transfer from a 70mm source on optimal equipment. If Blade Runner can get the special treatment than surely 2001 can.

I agree 100%.

I suspect the transfer was made with the old 2K scanners, not with the new 4K ones used for Blade Runner.
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post #1184 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancescoP View Post

I agree 100%.

I suspect the transfer was made with the old 2K scanners, not with the new 4K ones used for Blade Runner.

I suspect this as well. Very disappointing that the same studio would give the special treatment to Blade Runner but not to an equally great movie such as 2001.
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post #1185 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I suspect this as well. Very disappointing that the same studio would give the special treatment to Blade Runner but not to an equally great movie such as 2001.

So they can do the Extra Special Collectors Edition later that comes in a monolith case of course!

(and of course I probably buy it )
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post #1186 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiotan View Post

So they can do the Extra Special Collectors Edition later that comes in a monolith case of course!

(and of course I probably buy it )

No kidding!
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post #1187 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

A list of all the "loop filter free" titles would be interesting.

I only have a few bitstreams, but maybe xylon and/or benes would be interested in compiling a list. Here's the H.264 reference decoder with a patch to print the number of filtered pixels per frame.

http://www.w6rz.net/ldecod_loop.zip

Loop filter on:

Code:
C:\\video>ldecod -i bits0001.mpv
----------------------------- JM 13.0 (FRExt) -----------------------------
 Decoder config file                    : (null)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Input H.264 bitstream                  : bits0001.mpv
 Output decoded YUV                     : test_dec.yuv
 Output status file                     : log.dec
 Input reference file                   : test_rec.yuv does not exist
                                          SNR values are not available
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
POC must = frame# or field# for SNRs to be correct
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Frame          POC  Pic#   QP    SnrY     SnrU     SnrV   Y:U:V Time(ms)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
filtered luma pixels =   95455. edge =   45052, non-edge =   50403
00000(IDR)        0     0     6                             4:2:0     841
filtered luma pixels =   57969. edge =   29648, non-edge =   28321
00001( P )        3     1     5                             4:2:0     721
filtered luma pixels =   67582. edge =   39756, non-edge =   27826
00000( B )        1     2     6                             4:2:0     972
filtered luma pixels =   71551. edge =   43910, non-edge =   27641
00001( b )        2     3     7                             4:2:0     991
filtered luma pixels =   63311. edge =   32838, non-edge =   30473
00002( P )        5     3     6                             4:2:0    1472
filtered luma pixels =   63107. edge =   39988, non-edge =   23119
00002( b )        4     4     7                             4:2:0    1663
filtered luma pixels =   50439. edge =   26158, non-edge =   24281
Loop filter off:

Code:
C:\\xfer>ldecod -i bits0001.mpv
----------------------------- JM 13.0 (FRExt) -----------------------------
 Decoder config file                    : (null)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Input H.264 bitstream                  : bits0001.mpv
 Output decoded YUV                     : test_dec.yuv
 Output status file                     : log.dec
 Input reference file                   : test_rec.yuv does not exist
                                          SNR values are not available
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
POC must = frame# or field# for SNRs to be correct
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Frame          POC  Pic#   QP    SnrY     SnrU     SnrV   Y:U:V Time(ms)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00000(IDR)        0     0    17                             4:2:0    1001
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00001( P )        2     1    19                             4:2:0     852
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00000( b )        1     2    21                             4:2:0    1201
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00002( P )        4     2    18                             4:2:0     972
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00001( b )        3     3    22                             4:2:0    1492
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00003( P )        6     3    18                             4:2:0    1212
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00002( b )        5     4    21                             4:2:0    1362
BTW, you can also use the reference decoder to check the levels of other decoding methods. The reference decoder is independent of video cards, rendering and other drivers.

You'll need a couple more tools to process the output of ldecod.

http://www.w6rz.net/clipyuvhd.zip
http://www.w6rz.net/yuvtorgb.zip

clipyuvhd splits the single 4:2:0 output file into individual 4:2:2 frames.

clipyuvhd 1920 1080 test_dec.yuv

yuvtorgb converts the 4:2:2 YUV files to a .tga file (that you can make a .png file from with Photoshop).

yuvtorgb 1920 1080 test0000.yuv test.tga

Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #1188 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Great. More work for me. I'll add this to the list of things I check with new Blu-rays. And I'll slowly go back over old ones.

Is it sufficient to just scan a very small part of the file? Here is the beginning of POTC3 At World's End:

The reference decoder is pretty slow, so scanning the whole movie will be tedious. BTW, if you do scan the whole movie, you can disable writing to the output file with:

ldecod -i bits0001.mpv -o nul

I would test a few parts of the movie. At least some live footage (that is, not the very beginning with the studio stuff or the ending credits).

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post #1189 of 2128 Old 12-21-2007, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Heres a scan of The Brothers Grimm Japanese HDDVD. I'm not sure if those errors make any difference. Its probably an issue with EvoDemux.

Code:
D:\\Downloads\\ldecod_loop>ldecod.exe -i e:\\PEVOB_MAIN_1.H.264.stream.0.avc
----------------------------- JM 13.0 (FRExt) -----------------------------
 Decoder config file                    : (null)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Input H.264 bitstream                  : e:\\PEVOB_MAIN_1.H.264.stream.0.avc
 Output decoded YUV                     : test_dec.yuv
 Output status file                     : log.dec
 Input reference file                   : test_rec.yuv does not exist
                                          SNR values are not available
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
POC must = frame# or field# for SNRs to be correct
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Frame          POC  Pic#   QP    SnrY     SnrU     SnrV   Y:U:V Time(ms)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
read_new_slice: Found NALU_TYPE_FILL, len 2
Skipping these filling bits, proceeding w/ next NALU
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00000(IDR)        0     0    24                             4:2:0     266
read_new_slice: Found NALU_TYPE_FILL, len 2
Skipping these filling bits, proceeding w/ next NALU
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00001( P )        3     1    24                             4:2:0     234
read_new_slice: Found NALU_TYPE_FILL, len 2
Skipping these filling bits, proceeding w/ next NALU
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00000( b )        1     2    24                             4:2:0     250
read_new_slice: Found NALU_TYPE_FILL, len 2
Skipping these filling bits, proceeding w/ next NALU
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00001( b )        2     2    24                             4:2:0     234
read_new_slice: Found NALU_TYPE_FILL, len 2
Skipping these filling bits, proceeding w/ next NALU
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00003( P )        6     2    24                             4:2:0     328
read_new_slice: Found NALU_TYPE_FILL, len 2
Skipping these filling bits, proceeding w/ next NALU
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00002( b )        4     3    24                             4:2:0     360
read_new_slice: Found NALU_TYPE_FILL, len 2
Skipping these filling bits, proceeding w/ next NALU
filtered luma pixels =       0. edge =       0, non-edge =       0
00002( b )        5     3    24                             4:2:0     328

Those are not errors. It's just stuffing bytes. You will see that on Blu-ray streams also.

Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #1190 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 03:42 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1191 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 10:23 AM
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This may have been discussed before, but what is the cause of the streaking on the background in those last shots?
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post #1192 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

This may have been discussed before, but what is the cause of the streaking on the background in those last shots?

Looks like brushstrokes on the projected backgrounds doesn't it, Rob? Yes, there have been a fair number of comments on this in various threads.
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post #1193 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

This may have been discussed before, but what is the cause of the streaking on the background in those last shots?

I'd guess this is because the landscape in the background isn't real but projected/painted/printed on canvas or a wall or something else which wasn't perfectly plane when shooting this scenes ...
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post #1194 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick99 View Post

Looks like brushstrokes on the projected backgrounds doesn't it, Rob? Yes, there have been a fair number of comments on this in various threads.

Kind of, but I have a hard time believing that they (Kubrick) would have let such a sloppy job slide by.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msv View Post

I'd guess this because the landscape in the background isn't real but projected/painted/printed on canvas or a wall or something else which wasn't perfectly plane when shooting this scenes ...

This makes sense. I am guessing that the background was giving a weird type of reflection.
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post #1195 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Kind of, but I have a hard time believing that they (Kubrick) would have let such a sloppy job slide by.



This makes sense. I am guessing that the background was giving a weird type of reflection.

Whatever the cause, I think it is clearly not any kind of compression artifact, but instead something that is really there in the source material.
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post #1196 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick99 View Post

Whatever the cause, I think it is clearly not any kind of compression artifact, but instead something that is really there in the source material.

Oh, absolutely. I never meant to imply otherwise.
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post #1197 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1198 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 01:54 PM
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^^^^

This is an example of the much better starfields, which I saw theatrically.

Happens a lot in space movies, the transfer will be great in live action scenes but the starfields will be muted.

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
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post #1199 of 2128 Old 12-22-2007, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1200 of 2128 Old 12-23-2007, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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