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post #1231 of 2128 Old 12-31-2007, 04:19 PM
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Well that shot does indeed look a lot better without the halos but the overall sharpness is about the same: same transfer. With a new 4k transfer from proper 70mm elements you'd probably be able to read the numbers on the back wall quite clearly.

Xylon, could you take a grab of this frame:



Happy New Year.
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post #1232 of 2128 Old 12-31-2007, 04:36 PM
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I wonder what lenses Kubrick was using in some of these shots? The scene from Xylons last post above, for example, shows some distortion on the left side of the frame (as well as the right).
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post #1233 of 2128 Old 12-31-2007, 04:45 PM
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Ultra wide lenses. Looks great on a curved screen.
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post #1234 of 2128 Old 01-01-2008, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Well that shot does indeed look a lot better without the halos but the overall sharpness is about the same: same transfer. With a new 4k transfer from proper 70mm elements you'd probably be able to read the numbers on the back wall quite clearly.

I don't think it's the same transfer.

The starfields are much more vivid on the HDNet version, even with the same black levels. Edge enhancement doesn't do that.

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post #1235 of 2128 Old 01-01-2008, 12:27 AM
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It is the same transfer, except the HDMs have tweaked colors. You can replicate the HDNet's edgy look by applying various amounts of unsharp mask.
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post #1236 of 2128 Old 01-01-2008, 12:32 AM
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What proof do you have that it's the same transfer? All I see is anecdotal supposition.

Vincent
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post #1237 of 2128 Old 01-01-2008, 01:17 AM
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The proof is in the pictures. Same gamma, same detail, same color timing even in some frames. Both versions are derived from the same transfer/scan. What makes you think they're not?

Happy 2008, Xylon's thread.
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post #1238 of 2128 Old 01-01-2008, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

The proof is in the pictures. Same gamma, same detail, same color timing even in some frames. Both versions are derived from the same transfer/scan. What makes you think they're not?

Happy 2008, Xylon's thread.

The starfields.

All they probably have in common is the same film element.

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post #1239 of 2128 Old 01-01-2008, 06:10 PM
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Here's a HD-DVD capture with a ton of unsharp mask/EE applied:



Xylon's HDNet capture

HDNet vs HD-DVD+EE Waggle

HD-DVD vs HD-DVD+EE Waggle
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post #1240 of 2128 Old 01-01-2008, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira View Post

What proof do you have that it's the same transfer? All I see is anecdotal supposition.

Vincent

Lets find out, I'm sure we will know soon enough.
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post #1241 of 2128 Old 01-01-2008, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1242 of 2128 Old 01-01-2008, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1243 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 12:01 AM
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IMO same transfer. The HDM has corrected colors and contrast and the HDNet has... massive amounts of EE. The Shining got better treatment.

I still think that big ass halo by the woman's foot is EE and not the result of the lens, although the frame does have those artifacts.
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post #1244 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

... I still think that big ass halo by the woman's foot is EE and not the result of the lens, although the frame does have those artifacts.

What version are you refering to with this remark?

Regards

EDIT: Happy new year everyone!

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post #1245 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 06:28 PM
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Hey, the great Bjoern. Happy New Year. Can we expect a huge update to your informative site?

I was referring to the HD-DVD. The glowing effect around her foot, the table, and just about everything that's in focus looks... like EE. Yeah, it also looks like the result of artifacts from the lens because of the red color fringing but IMO it's exagerrated by whatever EE that is there, if it's there.

No comment on the HDNet version.
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post #1246 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 07:37 PM
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Hey Kram,

Good to have a few days off to join the madness here Also put my Constant Area Crusader hat on in another thread

Anyway, I see what you mean.

At first look, it might be mistaken as lens related. But even at a quick second glance its quite obvious that neither the halos nor the color fringing are lens related.

If this is not just a joke and was actually suggested/discussed here (haven't read the whole thread), i could do a little of my image magic and explain the halo forensics

Halo as a Microsoft gaming franchise is much more fun than halos in the video processing business. Yet they both seem to stick around for a looong time

So that this won't get burried here in the thread, a new thread with these 2 topics seems to be in order:

1. Halos: "Lens halos vs resample ringing vs ICT block ringing vs aperture correction vs CRT scanning artefacts vs plain old EE"

2. Color fringes: "Chromatic aberration vs color fringing vs CCD overload artefacts vs Technicolor color fringes (both general and age related) vs chroma delay vs channel misalignments vs plain old CUE"

Smells like a lot of work, might be a potential update for my site.

What do you think?

Best regards
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post #1247 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 08:07 PM
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Xylon,

btw. You are one of the main reasons why i didn't see a need to come out of hiding for the last 2 years. You and a few others here are doing a bang up job with screenshots and their analysis to fight the "Huh? Looks awesome on MY setup!" ignorance folks.

Having done analysis of thousands of images back in the day (for my site, for my friends and for the industry), i know exactly how much work this is. Little things like lining up 2 versions for the same frames for example. People have NO idea what effort you put into this.

I salute you!

Maybe i will have more time on hands in 2008 to join you guys in the analysis madeness. If i do, i think i would skip doing screenshots on my own in most cases and just ask for your permission to comment on yours and maybe make some suggestions as to frames worthy for comparison from my point of view.

Again, awesome work. Keep it up!

P.S. While i am at it (thanking the Academy and all)

I am a fan of Francesco's work in the field of down/upsampling resolution tests (forgot his name for it). If you know what it can and can't do for you its a mighty tool in the shed for analysis. Started using it over 10 years ago, still do sometimes today. Might lightning smite all disbelivers

And i am really happy to see dr1394 and trbarry still around, what an awesome well of knowledge to learn from.

Thanks go to all others pushing the hobby forward by expecting THE BEST.

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post #1248 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjoern Roy View Post

So that this won't get burried here in the thread, a new thread with these 2 topics seems to be in order:

1. Halos: "Lens halos vs resample ringing vs ICT block ringing vs aperture correction vs CRT scanning artefacts vs plain old EE"

2. Color fringes: "Chromatic aberration vs color fringing vs CCD overload artefacts vs Technicolor color fringes (both general and age related) vs chroma delay vs channel misalignments vs plain old CUE"

Smells like a lot of work, might be a potential update for my site.

What do you think?

I think a new thread or page would be interesting but you'd probably get a lot of the same responses I got in another thread: that the halos in this transfer of 2001 are completely photographic in nature. Blah.

Speaking of EE and DNR what do you think of the HD-DVD of Tremors? You could probably devote a whole page to that as well as Traffic and other horrific discs. Seen the Dracula thread?

I also have to give credit where it's due. Bjoern, Xylon, Francesco, Mhafner, and others are invaluable to this forum. If it weren't for them I'm afraid we'd just have countless threads where people congradulate eachother for recommending obviously screwed up transfers.
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post #1249 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 08:52 PM
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You already had a thread on this? Care to point me to it?

Thanks

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post #1250 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjoern Roy View Post

P.S. While i am at it (thanking the Academy and all)

I am a fan of Francesco's work in the field of down/upsampling resolution tests (forgot his name for it). If you know what it can and can't do for you its a mighty tool in the shed for analysis. Started using it over 10 years ago, still do sometimes today. Might lightning smite all disbelivers

Thanks! I hope to do more DUTests in the future... it would be great to have your contribution.
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post #1251 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjoern Roy View Post

You already had a thread on this? Care to point me to it?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=2001

Things start to get interesting around page 8 when someone finally says that the transfer isn't all it's hyped up to be and might be just average for what this film can deliver.
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post #1252 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 10:32 PM
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Requesting the mods to sticky the below threads

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=827529
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=967857 - I am not sure about this one but I hope that it doesn't get deleted like the DNR + EE titles list thread.
+
FrancescoP DU thread.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #1253 of 2128 Old 01-02-2008, 11:25 PM
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Bjoern, great to see you posting here! I think you did more to educate HT enthusiasts about Edge Enhancement on DVD's than just about anyone. When it was a popular opinion that Sony/Columbia had some of the best quality releases on DVD, you were the one who pointed out the fact that virtually ALL of their releases had EE on them. And you didn't just tell us, you showed us.

Thanks!
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post #1254 of 2128 Old 01-03-2008, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjoern Roy View Post

Xylon,

btw. You are one of the main reasons why i didn't see a need to come out of hiding for the last 2 years. You and a few others here are doing a bang up job with screenshots and their analysis to fight the "Huh? Looks awesome on MY setup!" ignorance folks.

Having done analysis of thousands of images back in the day (for my site, for my friends and for the industry), i know exactly how much work this is. Little things like lining up 2 versions for the same frames for example. People have NO idea what effort you put into this.

I salute you!

Maybe i will have more time on hands in 2008 to join you guys in the analysis madeness. If i do, i think i would skip doing screenshots on my own in most cases and just ask for your permission to comment on yours and maybe make some suggestions as to frames worthy for comparison from my point of view.

Again, awesome work. Keep it up!

Thanks go to all others pushing the hobby forward by expecting THE BEST.

You welcome


The logistics needed in doing all this screenshots is defintely not for everyone. As long as I'm motivated I will keep working on them.

Suggestions for specific frames are always appreciated. It will make the job easier.
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post #1255 of 2128 Old 01-03-2008, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1256 of 2128 Old 01-03-2008, 08:20 AM
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That frame looks halfway decent compared to the wide shot. The color timing and contrast is way better than the HDNet broadcast.
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post #1257 of 2128 Old 01-03-2008, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjoern Roy View Post

1. Halos: "Lens halos vs resample ringing vs ICT block ringing vs aperture correction vs CRT scanning artefacts vs plain old EE"

2. Color fringes: "Chromatic aberration vs color fringing vs CCD overload artefacts vs Technicolor color fringes (both general and age related) vs chroma delay vs channel misalignments vs plain old CUE"

Smells like a lot of work, might be a potential update for my site.

What do you think?

Yes, do it! Glad to see you back.

David Mackenzie
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US Correspondent & Tech Consultant, HDTVtest
ISF Certified Calibrator (Level 2) / THX Certified Professional (Video Calibration Level 2)
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post #1258 of 2128 Old 01-04-2008, 07:57 AM
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Hi,

I was wondering what the best method for extracting lossless screenshots from HD DVD's are.

I have ripped a HD DVD to EVO files, and demuxed the VC1 video out of the EVO.

What app should I use to get a framegrab from the VC1 video?

Sorry if this has already been covered, I searched but could not find the answer.

Thanks.
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post #1259 of 2128 Old 01-04-2008, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

I am not sure about this one but I hope that it doesn't get deleted like the DNR + EE titles list thread.

What? That was a great thread, why was it deleted?
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post #1260 of 2128 Old 01-04-2008, 03:06 PM
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Here's Man on Fire. BD (BD50 AVC) vs 1080i OAR (MPEG2 ~21.5Mbit/s) vs 1080i Open Matte (MPEG2 ~14Mbit/s);

BD;






1080i OAR;




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