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post #1 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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News
Blu-ray Weighing Sony Down?
The electronics giant reports bigger first quarter loss thanks to massive production costs for the Play Station 3.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (May 16, 2007) -- Sony today reported widening losses due largely to huge production costs for its video game console, the PlayStation 3.

The PS3, which was introduced last November, includes a Blu-ray HDTV DVD player inside, which industry observers say is forcing Sony to spend significantly more on manufacturing. Rival consoles from Microsoft and Nintendo do not include high-def DVD players inside.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/sony051607.htm
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post #2 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 02:01 PM
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Those HDTV DVD players... you know how it is.

Seriously though, of course PS3 expenses are weighing Sony down; expensive hardware sold at a loss. At the same time, this has been predicted for months, stated in advance by Sony at previous investor conferences, discussed in threads innumerable, and isn't really... well, relevant almost, due to the aforementioned advance recognition.

Gaming division losses are supposed to be minimal next year, profitable again the year after. For the company as a whole this year is supposed to be extremely profitable, and even the year just ended March 31st to which this report relates was more profitable than the year before (even though specifically the 4th quarter was more lossy).
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post #3 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 02:12 PM
 
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Interestingly Phillip Swann is the guy who predicted HD DVD would shutting down shop in Sept. I'm waiting to see what he says at the end of the year....
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post #4 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 02:14 PM
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Yep...no problemo....Sony did have to pay to manufacture and market these. That costs money...Next years sheet will be much better as the production costs will be a fraction of last years....It's all good. (not to mention Sony shares are up 40% in the last 6 mos despite PS3 'weighing it down'.......)

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post #5 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 02:53 PM
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And in an article today on the Motley Fool they conclude:
Quote:


I's no secret that many Foolish contributors are bearish on the stock. Our Motley Fool CAPS community shares the same sentiment, giving Sony the lowest ranking -- one star. Meanwhile, other Japanese competitors such as Nintendo and Canon (NYSE: CAJ) sport top five-star rankings.

Toshiba has a 3 star rating on their list.
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post #6 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khoyme View Post

And in an article today on the Motley Fool they conclude:

Toshiba has a 3 star rating on their list.

Again, if you had $10K in Sony stock 6 mos ago, you'd sell it today for $14,000. Forget the fool's predictions and ratings, I like results. Results in cash, not ratings.


So, you go spend your '3 stars', I'll go spend my $4K!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #7 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 03:03 PM
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I found it surprising that the stock jumped after the $580 mil quarterly loss or whatever announcement.

Either investors are taking the long term approach, or shorting the living **** out of it.

Anyways, yeah, I would have never predicted the stock would be up by 40% since the ps3's launch.

Sony pay me 10 beeeelion dollars to plant blu-ray seeeeds.
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post #8 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 03:07 PM
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Why wouldn't it? The business fundamentals continue to improve. Strong movies, strong electronics.... people have gotten so wrapped up - in forums, in the media, everywhere - with associating Sony with the PS3 that now half the world can't see the forest through the trees. People are buying the stock because Stringer is on track to raise margins to 5%, Sony is regaining leadership in their core electronics space, and a year like this one is set to be very good for Sony.

Anyway I'm a fan of the MotleyFool, but not of their predictions per se. The problem with their gaming sector analysts is that they tend to base their logic on what they see playing out on forums just like this one (plus I think they're gamers themselves... never a good combo), as well as the usual cursory high-level articles that roll on through. Every time I read their analysis on the space, there are deep flaws with their reasoning.

PS - When you short a stock, the price goes down. The price can bounce if investors are forced to cover their shorted positions.
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post #9 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post


PS - When you short a stock, the price goes down. The price can bounce if investors are forced to cover their shorted positions.


Oops my brain isn't working. You're right of course. Maybe people are covering their shorts

I don't pay too much attention to sony, but aside from the ps3, the business is doing pretty well. I think they did pretty well for the year as well.

Sony pay me 10 beeeelion dollars to plant blu-ray seeeeds.
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post #10 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 03:12 PM
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From Bloomberg:

Sony Shares Gain After Record Net Forecast on TVs, Games Unit

By Pavel Alpeyev

May 17 (Bloomberg) -- Shares of Sony Corp., the world's second-largest consumer electronics maker, rose to the highest in almost five years after the company forecast record profit on sales of Bravia televisions and narrower losses at the games unit.

The shares rose 3.3 percent to 6,670 yen, the highest since June 13, 2002, as of 9:28 a.m. on the Tokyo Stock Exchange, compared with a 0.5 percent gain in the benchmark Nikkei 225 Stock Average.

Net income will rise to 320 billion yen ($2.6 billion) for the year ending March 31, from 126.3 billion yen, Tokyo-based Sony said yesterday. Its fiscal fourth-quarter loss widened to the biggest in four years, after the PlayStation 3 was outsold by Nintendo Co.'s Wii console.

To contact the reporter on this story: Pavel Alpeyev in Tokyo at palpeyev@bloomberg.net .

Last Updated: May 16, 2007 20:32 EDT

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post #11 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Again, if you had $10K in Sony stock 6 mos ago, you'd sell it today for $14,000. Forget the fool's predictions and ratings, I like results. Results in cash, not ratings.


So, you go spend your '3 stars', I'll go spend my $4K!

You are only looking at a shor time period. The return of 40% is rather the result of recovery from the downturn of Sony battery recall. If you look at the one year return, Sony just barely catches up with S&P and Dow. And for a longer term, it is even more dismal. It is down 6.38% over the 5 year span while S&P and Dow returns are around 40%. And there is the reason why it only has a one star rating from the Fool's. Here is one of the quote from Fools.

Quote:


Sony's revenue has grown only 5% over the past five years, while its shares have only risen a paltry 2.8% over the same time period. Why you would invest in a company this clueless and uncertain, when you could invest in the index and make more, is beyond me.

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post #12 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 03:58 PM
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40% is 40%....and it [ironically] is during the 'PS3 is weighing Blu Ray down period.......................

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #13 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 04:03 PM
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Console always drag down ce, look at MS, they make money from Windows and other but the console section is deep in dept, they think they MAY make some money next year, 2 years after the release of the Xbox 360...

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #14 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

40% is 40%....and it [ironically] is during the 'PS3 is weighing Blu Ray down period.......................

Or maybe it is investors breathing a sigh of relief that the PS3 is selling poorly enough that Sony can't lose as much money as they feared???

Part of picking statistics to quote is finding the perfect interval to quote them. I hope you were smart enough to invest in their stock 6 months ago, and not just in the player.
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post #15 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 04:35 PM
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where does one find a Blu-Ray HDTV DVD player anyway?

I'll be where I'm at!

PS3: Manley23
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post #16 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 05:05 PM
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562 MILLION lost from Jan 1st to Mar. 31st so far this year, which BTW is Sony BIGGEST 1st quarter lost in 4 years. This doesn't sound good @ all
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post #17 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 05:59 PM
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post #18 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 06:03 PM
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I love the fanboy responses of how bad Sony is doing in the face of a 40% gain in value of stock prices in the most recent 6 months. That is a monster gain for such a large company with so much outstanding stock........Spin all you like, but reality is reality... I wonder if most HD DVD folk invest for the future in money markets??

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #19 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 06:08 PM
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Universal going Neutral thread count 9999

Blu Hurting the PS3 thread count 9999

It's a tie folks!!!!!!!!!!!


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


I'd love to get my hands on a Blu Monster's Ball.-LilStinky

Refering to a possible release of said movie on BD LOL
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post #20 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I love the fanboy responses of how bad Sony is doing in the face of a 40% gain in value of stock prices in the most recent 6 months. That is a monster gain for such a large company with so much outstanding stock........Spin all you like, but reality is reality... I wonder if most HD DVD folk invest for the future in money markets??

Would you describe the article of my link as good or bad news for sony? Take off your blue blockers to see clearer and be honest Bland.
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post #21 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 06:11 PM
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Quote:


Blu-ray Weighing Sony Down?

Not for long. With PS3 sales tanking they will not lose much in FY08.

Unless, they decide to cut prices to spur sales.
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post #22 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 06:18 PM
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Reggie,

Your article is meaningless...All that matters is what happens at the end of the day to the share prices. For any given day, you can find a dozen or more articles either for or against Sony as a corporation. All meaningless conjecture and spin. The articles are biased as to what point the author wants to make. I could ill imagine constructing a stock portfolio by reading such snippets.


Stock performance is the ultimate expression of how a company is doing. Simple...Why would you explain try away a 40% inc in share prices in the last 6 mos with big bad blu ray bringing Sony down. ...it's foolish.

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #23 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 06:30 PM
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April PS3 sales:
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post #24 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Reggie,

Your article is meaningless...All that matters is what happens at the end of the day to the share prices. For any given day, you can find a dozen or more articles either for or against Sony as a corporation. All meaningless conjecture and spin. The articles are biased as to what point the author wants to make. I could ill imagine constructing a stock portfolio by reading such snippets.


Stock performance is the ultimate expression of how a company is doing. Simple...Why would you explain try away a 40% inc in share prices in the last 6 mos with big bad blu ray bringing Sony down. ...it's foolish.

True, but in all fairness bland, the suits could have 60% if not for certain issues.

I'd love to get my hands on a Blu Monster's Ball.-LilStinky

Refering to a possible release of said movie on BD LOL
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post #25 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 07:02 PM
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post #26 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Reggie,

Your article is meaningless...All that matters is what happens at the end of the day to the share prices. For any given day, you can find a dozen or more articles either for or against Sony as a corporation. All meaningless conjecture and spin. The articles are biased as to what point the author wants to make. I could ill imagine constructing a stock portfolio by reading such snippets.


Stock performance is the ultimate expression of how a company is doing. Simple...Why would you explain try away a 40% inc in share prices in the last 6 mos with big bad blu ray bringing Sony down. ...it's foolish.

Tell that to all the people who bought Enron stock up until 1 month before it crashed. And stock performance lately is not a tell all sign. Too many fudging the books and back office illegal deals have hurt your strategy.

Paul Seng
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post #27 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Seng View Post

Tell that to all the people who bought Enron stock up until 1 month before it crashed. And stock performance lately is not a tell all sign. Too many fudging the books and back office illegal deals have hurt your strategy.

Any set of numbers are always good for Sony to let Bobby Blue Bland explain it.
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post #28 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

April PS3 sales:

Thats very funny. What are the sales for said month?

Blu ray is the best Blah, blah, blah.
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post #29 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd nOOb View Post

Thats very funny. What are the sales for said month?

82k
360 at over double that 174k
Wii at over double that at 360k

(NPD numbers, assuming where the cartoon draws inspiration)

man did I have a lame and humor free post...

Also interesting reading peoples perception of stocks and company health..

Paul Taatjes
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post #30 of 128 Old 05-17-2007, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd nOOb View Post

Thats very funny. What are the sales for said month?

Not to good in Japan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

In Japan PS3 is doing very poorly. It is being outsold 8:1 by wii. On the home turf of Sony.

Here are the hardware numbers for Japan for week ending 13th. The third column shows total consoles sold since inception.

Code:
Wii    66,657      2,459,437
PS3     8,872        914,368
360     2,293        386,079
But look at the software sales for the same week.

Code:
Wii 133,850   5,796,146 
360   6,864   1,283,832 
PS3   6,523   1,185,030
Looks like the low attach rates in not just on BD movies

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