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post #91 of 3651 Old 05-28-2007, 07:59 PM
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Paidgeek any news on when sony is gonna fix the rgb full bug?
Surely its been passed on to them now.
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post #92 of 3651 Old 05-28-2007, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack-Bauer-24 View Post

Hi paidgeek,

Sony has been releasing blu rays pretty consistently every month, but I wonder is this the pace they prefer? What I mean is come autumn will they start pumping out more catalog releases like Universal or continue with the current rate of release?


Thanks!

There will be a couple of months before the end of the year with many more titles released than usual.

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post #93 of 3651 Old 05-28-2007, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post

Paidgeek any news on when sony is gonna fix the rgb full bug?
Surely its been passed on to them now.

It has been discussed, but I don't have a schedule for a new firmware release.

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post #94 of 3651 Old 05-28-2007, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokeith View Post

TrueHD & WMA Lossless insiders,

I was speaking with an audio encoding programmer, and he said it was quite difficult to compare channels and losslessly extract identical information. For example, taking L & R and losslessly redirecting only the indentical material to the Center channel. Or when comparing back-left to back-right, or side-left to side-right.

Is this actually difficult? Could someone give me a little more detail on the process and difficulties/shortcomings? I would assume extracting identical material from stereo pairs would be one of the primary methods for lossless compression.

MLP and TrueHD use a lossless matrix technique. It's what enables lossless reconstruction of 5.1 audio from the delivered substreams containing a stereo downmix plus 3.1-ch extensions, for example. It's not particularly difficult, but does require care in design to ensure lossless operation.
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post #95 of 3651 Old 05-28-2007, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Would anyone be able to answer this for me?

Does DPLIIx process 5.1 Dolby Digital Plus or 5.1 TrueHD into 7.1? Or Can DPLIIx process 5.1 Lossless 24 bit PCM into 7.1?

thanks

Yes, PLIIx, technologically, can do all of the above, up to 192 kHz. Whether a specific product can do it depends on it's design choices and DSP resources.
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post #96 of 3651 Old 05-28-2007, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

great. So lossless should stay lossless even though PLIIx makes it 7.1?

Nope. Any process that alters the data is, by definition, not lossless. Bass management, channel balance, D-A conversion, PLIIx, none of it is lossless. That is not to say the quality is degraded necessarily. Done right, DSP processing is well able to preserve all the quality of the source.
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post #97 of 3651 Old 05-28-2007, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Nope. Any process that alters the data is, by definition, not lossless. Bass management, channel balance, D-A conversion, PLIIx, none of it is lossless. That is not to say the quality is degraded necessarily. Done right, DSP processing is well able to preserve all the quality of the source.

Now that's taking things to extremes, isn't it? I would call that pedantic!

Cheers,
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post #98 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

MLP and TrueHD use a lossless matrix technique. It's what enables lossless reconstruction of 5.1 audio from the delivered substreams containing a stereo downmix plus 3.1-ch extensions, for example. It's not particularly difficult, but does require care in design to ensure lossless operation.

Hi Roger,

I was just thinking, older amps could decode MLP passed over ILink. Is the only real difference between TrueHD and DVD-A the higher bit rates and availability of higher multichannel sampling rates? If a modern receiver is receiving a bitstream of DVD-A or TrueHD over HDMI 1.3, can it tell the difference?
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post #99 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vairulez View Post

ATI is claiming VC1 full hardware decoding support for its 2400 and 2600 to be released in july. How is it possible?

Support, yes. But with which decoder? With what player software? The devil is in the details. Microsoft's WMV9/VC-1 decoder currently in Vista will only go up to Profile C which isn't full hardware decoding (that's Profile D). But nothing is to prevent ATI from adding Profile D support and testing (or even shipping) with a completely different VC-1 decoder. DXVA is a public API so it's not like they are required to only work with Microsoft's decoder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

I'm usually converting all my movies to MKV - including my HD-DVDs. And as far as I can see, VC-1 in MKV through the MS decoder works just fine for me. What problems could I expect due to the missing ASF metadata?

In that scenario, there's a good chance the Vista WMV decoder will fail to identify non-square pixel video and interlaced video as such before passing it on to the renderer. As a result, deinterlacing and square-pixel resizing won't happen in the renderer. The decoder currently relies on ASF Data Unit Extensions to retrieve this information, though it might pass it on from the upstream filter (i.e. Haali splitter) if the information is present there. It's really an untested scenario since, like I mentioned, we shipped it as a Windows Media decoder meant to work primarily in a Windows Media environment. The fact that it works fairly well with VC-1 streams in EVO, MKV, AVI, MPEG-TS and whatnot is a nice bonus - but not something that we intentionally targetted.

Quote:


P.S: Well, there's one problem: I get good playback only if I set the graphics card to 59.94Hz. With 23.976Hz, the VC-1 video is stuttering quite badly (and yes, of course the video is marked as 1080p23.976 in the MKV container). Don't have this problem with any other codec. Could that have to do with the missing ASF metadata?

First of all, who's to guarantee that the tool which extracted the VC-1 elementary stream from the EVO and stuffed it into the MKV container correctly translated the timestamps? They could've just been guessed assuming a fixed frame interval (i.e. 1/24 = 41.67 msec). It's hard to say once it's done. The error could've been introduced in the parsing/muxing step.

That said... Your video card outputs 23.976 Hz? Do you have a display which works at 48 Hz or 72 Hz? Most digital displays refresh at 60 Hz.
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post #100 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 02:10 AM
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To any insider who works on the HD-DVD add-on,
When using the VGA cable with the 360 on a computer monitor, is the picture being displayed at 24FPS or 30FPS?

HD DVD - 13

Blu-Ray - 16

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post #101 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

You're not missing anything. Just remember that relatively few AVRs can apply bass management to the analog inputs. They need 6 A-D converters to do that.


Roger,
Very interesting discussion wrt Bass Management, but I need to ask a question...
I get the feeling from what you've written that Bass Management is non-existent with analog signals. Say from a CD and/or Phono stereo outputs ?
-t
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post #102 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 05:39 AM
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Sir Paidgeek

Any chance of The Emperor and the Assassin on BD?

Thankyou
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post #103 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

It has been discussed, but I don't have a schedule for a new firmware release.

thanks for looking into this. So even tho you dont know when a fix is coming, is it safe to say that a fix will be in the next firmware update?
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post #104 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post

Sir Paidgeek

Any chance of The Emperor and the Assassin on BD?

Thankyou

It is not on the current schedule. I'll see what I can find out about it.

Sony Pictures BD Insider
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post #105 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post

thanks for looking into this. So even tho you dont know when a fix is coming, is it safe to say that a fix will be in the next firmware update?

To the best of my knowledge, yes.

Sony Pictures BD Insider
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post #106 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 08:13 AM
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Any news from anyone as to when we can expect to see 50Hz playback on either HD-DVD or BD players? Will it also be able to do 25p playback seeing as some cameras are now recording in such modes?
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post #107 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 08:39 AM
 
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To Paidgeek:

Despite my reputation with some here, I firmly believe in giving credit where due. That said, my compliments to the Playstation team, both in general and particularly on the new 1.8 firmware update. My feeling is, a remarkable piece of technology has been made even better. I enjoy mine immensly, and expect to continue enjoying it for a long time. I'm looking forward to viewing many of my favorite movies on Blu-ray disc on this terrific MEDIA HUB.

You can forward my apologies to Chris Walker at Pioneer as I no longer need his new BD player .
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post #108 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

To the best of my knowledge, yes.

Thanks again for tending to this matter. Your willingness and commitment to us on this forum is greatly appreciated. I for one cant wait to have full rgb on 1080p movies.
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post #109 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 09:21 AM
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Quote:


I listened to the extended and theatrical mixes for "Step Into the Bad Side" on HD DVD, on an XA2 decoding the DD+ to PCM and feeding into an Anthem D2...

Besides the level difference (around 2-3db, the extended scenes being louder ) and the bump in the sub track on the extended versions, I don't hear the differences as being dramatic. The extended versions sound compressed to me, with the theatrical sounding more airy, and less smashed (listen to the high hat on Bad Side on the right side, it's got a little more hash on the extended version)... however, I was reaching to hear this difference, and it's impossible to know if it's the placebo effect since you have to go to the main menu to switch, and you are at least 20-40 seconds away everytime you switch and get back to the same scene.

In my professional opinion, and speculation, I suspect that the extended scenes were mixed for home video using near fields, and the mixer would've made some compromises knowing that the new extensions would only be heard in the home environment, and also might have been hearing the effects of bass redirection and adjusted accordingly....

I'll ask the mixer sometime this week if I can get a hold of him.... but I have to say I disagree with your assessment that the tracks are miles apart.

I know my Anthem has a display for the dialog norm setting, but since I am using the HD DVD and PCM for this, it does me no good

Filmmixer,

much-appreciated. I'll listen again to make sure I'm not hearing the "improvement" of a more compressed sound which might simply sound more rhobust and temp my ears to perceive a benefit of some kind.



Quote:


Nope. Any process that alters the data is, by definition, not lossless. Bass management, channel balance, D-A conversion, PLIIx, none of it is lossless. That is not to say the quality is degraded necessarily. Done right, DSP processing is well able to preserve all the quality of the source.

Roger,

thanks for you input on that perspective. I share the same philosophy (ie, that "lossless" means "bit for bit output" and not just "avoided psychoacoustic modeling").

Question: wouldn't that then mean that any Dolby TrueHD stream with a dialog normalization flag setting to anything other than minimum (off) mean that the Dolby Decoder isn't capable of delivering "lossless" performance from a Dolby TrueHD stream with DN? Since data-recalculation is required to adjust the level of the waveform, it would seem to fall into the same category as the DSP items you listed above.

Note: this confession isn't intended as an admittence to degraded audio quality: merely to apply consistently the principle of "lossless" playback to what's delivered from the output of the Dolby decoding engine.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #110 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 10:09 AM
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Dear paidgeek,


first of all let me say thank you and congratulations on the latest PS3 firmware update. This full featured update including 24p support was propably the most pleasant surprise I have ever enjoyed with any of my AV gear. Kudos to your mother company.

Now DTS-HD MA decoding is the only thing left to long for...

Now on to my question: I, as well as many others, have a serious issue with the 24p support as it is implemented in the PS3. If I connect the PS3 directly to my 1080p/24 capable front projector (Sharp Z20000 1080p DLP, latest firmware) the 24p output works like a charm - my projector displays it @ 48HZ and the 3:2 pulldown judder is finally an annoyance of the past.

BUT when I use my receiver (Yamaha RX-V1700) as HDMI hub in order to get sound output (which comes in quite handy...) there seems to be just another odd HDMI handshaking problem. The PS3 (with the 24p option set to "Auto") suddenly doesn't recognize the availability of an 24p capable display unit anymore and all I get is mere 60Hz output. The only solution I can think of right now is to buy an $$ HDMI splitter that magically allows for correct 24p HDMI handshaking.

This problem is surely not isolated to the Yamaha lineup of receivers and is a real issue for many, many users out there. Sadly just a few selected receivers allow for correct 24p handshaking. Even Sony's own lineup of HDMI recievers doesn't support the PS3 24p feature btw...

The problem is not the 1080p/24 signal passthrough (this is supported by just about any recent HDMI hub/receiver) BUT the handshaking.


Solution: If the PS3 would allow for a "native/DIRECT/forced 24p" option in addition to the auto setting this problem would not exist. This forced setting would avoid the 24p handshake and just output 1080p/24 whenever the source is accordant.

Please make this serious issue known and considered by those responsible for PS3 firmware updates.

Some threads discussing the issue:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=851667

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=851797

Thank you very much for your time and consideration!
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post #111 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 12:53 PM
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A question to anyone on the 360's HD-DVD add-on team:

Right now, if you go to the system blade on the 360 and select the memory option and then pick the HD-DVD add-on, all the files stored there are named "Unknown Title". Thus, it is impossible to know which file is for which movie. Surely HD-DVDs must have some textual identifier in the header metadata that could allow these files to have a meaningful name?

Would it be possible for a future update to the player to give these files names based on the title (even if its just a catalog number rather than the movie title itself)? Or does the HD-DVD authoring specification somehow prohibit this?

Thanks
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post #112 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 12:54 PM
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Thanks to whoever made the free Matrix HD clips, trailers and Animatrix episode on xbox live available to the global audience. The image quality is stunning - detail and color saturation is spot-on - and I can't wait for my hd-dvd set to arrive.

Obviously this release will make hd-dvd a more favorable option for many consumers (I can imagine waiting six months for a movie trilogy on bluray leaves a bad taste in people's mouths).

How many units of the recent Matrix release have been sold so far?
Is there an organization or website which tracks overall sales for HD media and makes it available to the general public?
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post #113 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 05:59 PM
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paidgeek,

I saw on thedigitalbits that Sony is expected to release The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen) on DVD in August. Any chance of a Blu-ray release? I hadn't heard of this movie and didn't realize that it had been reviewed so well (95% thumbs up on rottentomatoes.com and currently #74 all time on imdb.com).

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post #114 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Solution: If the PS3 would allow for a "native/DIRECT/forced 24p" option in addition to the auto setting this problem would not exist. This forced setting would avoid the 24p handshake and just output 1080p/24 whenever the source is accordant.

Please make this serious issue known and considered by those responsible for PS3 firmware updates.

Some threads discussing the issue:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=851667

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=851797

Thank you very much for your time and consideration!

Paidgeek: Any comments on whether a "fix" is in the works? I would imagine so as even the current Sony amps seem to suffer the same issue.

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post #115 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cordingley View Post

Now that's taking things to extremes, isn't it? I would call that pedantic!

This is a technical forum for the extreme of heart. If there is some groundswell that the definition of lossless should be expanded to include any processing at all except low bitrate compression, I guess we could entertain that.
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post #116 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

Hi Roger,

I was just thinking, older amps could decode MLP passed over ILink. Is the only real difference between TrueHD and DVD-A the higher bit rates and availability of higher multichannel sampling rates? If a modern receiver is receiving a bitstream of DVD-A or TrueHD over HDMI 1.3, can it tell the difference?

There are no products that output the MLP stream. It was always decoded first. So, yes, the PCM from MLP looks no different from the PCM from TrueHD. It will probably be a while before the 96/24 x6 ch limits of MLP are exceeded by HD DVD programs.
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post #117 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teknoguy View Post

Roger,
Very interesting discussion wrt Bass Management, but I need to ask a question...
I get the feeling from what you've written that Bass Management is non-existent with analog signals. Say from a CD and/or Phono stereo outputs ?
-t

That depends entirely on the AV processor. There are some that can apply bass management to 2-ch signals. It may be the majority. It costs nothing to do so.
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post #118 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

Roger,

thanks for you input on that perspective. I share the same philosophy (ie, that "lossless" means "bit for bit output" and not just "avoided psychoacoustic modeling").

Question: wouldn't that then mean that any Dolby TrueHD stream with a dialog normalization flag setting to anything other than minimum (off) mean that the Dolby Decoder isn't capable of delivering "lossless" performance from a Dolby TrueHD stream with DN? Since data-recalculation is required to adjust the level of the waveform, it would seem to fall into the same category as the DSP items you listed above.

Note: this confession isn't intended as an admittence to degraded audio quality: merely to apply consistently the principle of "lossless" playback to what's delivered from the output of the Dolby decoding engine.

The job of the lossless codec is to deliver the same bits that it encoded. It does that regardless of what follows, be it room EQ, mixing, dialnorm, PLIIx, or myriad other things. Dialnorm is a post-process, after lossles decoding is finished.

In my post, I was careful to note that while, speaking as a pedant, one cannot claim a signal is lossless once the data is changed, the sonic performance need not be impaired at all. So it is still fair to say the lossless performance (meaning what is heard) is still preserved even though subsequent to lossless decoding, the audio is modified. As you yourself have pointed out, the sonic subtleties of PCM sources come through with PLII decoding applied.
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post #119 of 3651 Old 05-29-2007, 09:50 PM
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Hi Amir,
When can we expect to see a remote hack to enable multi-region SD-DVD playback in Tosh units? I recall last year a Tosh rep in Europe claim there E1 units would have region free SD-DVD playback at some point. I know you can't give dates as such so maybe a quick yes or no its possible or not this side of 07?
Thanks
Will
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post #120 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 12:46 AM
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I don't know if anyone here can shed light on this, but I just read about this product on Kotaku.com that bypasses HDCP encryption for transmission to non-HDCP compliant monitors. Here's the link:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/hack/strip-...ion-264264.php

It's called the 'GameSwitch' and it says 'Play PS3 on DVI monitor' on the side of it. Would this really make it possible to transmit an unencrypted video signal that could be easily copied with the right equipment? AACS and BD+ don't come into play at this point in the chain do they?

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