Industry Insiders Master Q&A thread III: ONLY Questions to Insiders - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 02:41 AM
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FilmMixer/Roger-Dolby,

Generally speaking, home theater surround systems have a subwolfer and limited-range satellites. Whereas a theater could have full-range "satellites".

Is there a rule-of-thumb when creating/mixing the LFE? Would it be different for cinema media vs BD/HD DVD?
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post #122 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 05:26 AM
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The job of the lossless codec is to deliver the same bits that it encoded. It does that regardless of what follows, be it room EQ, mixing, dialnorm, PLIIx, or myriad other things. Dialnorm is a post-process, after lossles decoding is finished.

DN is post-process after the Dolby Digital algorithm extracts the data from the TrueHD stream, but it's not post-process in regards to what's sent on to the d/a converter as the DN process is applied without an option to bypass prior to d/a conversion.

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In my post, I was careful to note that while, speaking as a pedant, one cannot claim a signal is lossless once the data is changed, the sonic performance need not be impaired at all. So it is still fair to say the lossless performance (meaning what is heard) is still preserved even though subsequent to lossless decoding, the audio is modified. As you yourself have pointed out, the sonic subtleties of PCM sources come through with PLII decoding applied.

Agreed in principle that DSP does not necessitate a loss in quality, though even with the excellent Dolby ProLogic II processing I can hear a "more pure" sound with the signal in native 2.0 stereo (though the sacrifice in surround activity and image-placement isn't worth the subtle trade-off). On the topic of DN processing, has Dolby considered allowing audiophile-components to give users the choice to bypass the digital-level-adjustment forced by DN at their discretion? As a matter of principle it would be comforting to know that this additional step of data-recalculation could be avoided for single-program-play media like the lossless tracks of a high-def film.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #123 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 07:14 AM
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Paidgeek,

WRT Final Fantasy: Spirits Within on Blu-ray is it AVC or MPEG2?
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post #124 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwichura View Post

A question to anyone on the 360's HD-DVD add-on team:

Right now, if you go to the system blade on the 360 and select the memory option and then pick the HD-DVD add-on, all the files stored there are named "Unknown Title". Thus, it is impossible to know which file is for which movie. Surely HD-DVDs must have some textual identifier in the header metadata that could allow these files to have a meaningful name?

The lack of Title names on the pstorage is the result of a bug in the discs concerned: if you play any Studio Canal title for example you will see real titles there. With the API call missing, all the player could display to you would be a 32-digit guid, and I doubt you would be able to recognize the guids for your movies!

Toshiba are adding a recommendation to their Authoring document which spells out to the content creators how to fix this.

The Toshiba player has the same issues, for the same reasons.

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post #125 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Pennell View Post

The lack of Title names on the pstorage is the result of a bug in the discs concerned: if you play any Studio Canal title for example you will see real titles there. With the API call missing, all the player could display to you would be a 32-digit guid, and I doubt you would be able to recognize the guids for your movies!

Toshiba are adding a recommendation to their Authoring document which spells out to the content creators how to fix this.

The Toshiba player has the same issues, for the same reasons.

Isn't this the sort of thing that could be fixed by looking the GUID up online through the HD-DVD players network connection? Assuming of course there could be a centralised GUID database for HD-DVD... or would that veer too close to tracking users viewing habits?
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post #126 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Pennell View Post

The lack of Title names on the pstorage is the result of a bug in the discs concerned: if you play any Studio Canal title for example you will see real titles there. With the API call missing, all the player could display to you would be a 32-digit guid, and I doubt you would be able to recognize the guids for your movies!

Toshiba are adding a recommendation to their Authoring document which spells out to the content creators how to fix this.

The Toshiba player has the same issues, for the same reasons.


So the software on the disc can access the stored items through the quid.
We can't see the association with the corresponding disc.

Also the StudioCanal titles store an item under a seperate 'Studio Canal' folder containing the one title each 'Rambo1'
So now there are three entries 'Studio Canal' for each movie played.
I expected that the different StudioCanal titles should show up in a single sub folder.

Another bug?
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post #127 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

On the topic of DN processing, has Dolby considered allowing audiophile-components to give users the choice to bypass the digital-level-adjustment forced by DN at their discretion? As a matter of principle it would be comforting to know that this additional step of data-recalculation could be avoided for single-program-play media like the lossless tracks of a high-def film.

I strongly second that question.
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post #128 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 08:43 AM
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I'll add that the ability to disable DN processing by the user would abate all my concerns/issues with DN applied in the first place. When I'm in "audiophile mode" I want to limit the DSP applied to my digital signal as much as possible... especially in the realm of things like amplitude-recalculation etc. If, as an audiophile, I could choose to bypass DN like I can bypass dynamic-range compression and other Dolby features generally associated with non-audiophile use-cases, I'd be thrilled.

My primary goal when watching films is having the ability to watch *and* listen to the soundtrack with as much accuracy as possible (far above my desire to level-match when switching between the primary soundtrack and audio commentary, for instance). There's no DN on my PCM tracks on my Blu-ray discs, and I manage to toggle to the audio commentary with no ill effects. I'd like for Dolby to allow me the same luxury with Dolby-encoded signals as well...

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #129 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 08:45 AM
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I'm not sure if this is the place to ask this, but after all, you guys are insiders. I just got word from my audio guys that Classe pulled the plug on their high end receiver. They claim technology is moving too quickly and they don't want to put out any new equipment until they can ensure it will do everything. I was told there is yet another HDMI spec. There's 1.3a and now there will be a 1.3b. What the heck is the difference now? This is really frustrating. I've been waiting around to get new equipment, but if there are going to be changes every 6 months, I'm scared my equipment will be out of date sooner than those MC Hammer pants I bought in the 80's. Can anyone shed some light on this HDMI 1.3b and what is different about it compared to 1.3a? Should I be worried?

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post #130 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Pennell View Post

The lack of Title names on the pstorage is the result of a bug in the discs concerned

Toshiba are adding a recommendation to their Authoring document which spells out to the content creators how to fix this.

This is kind of disappointing, considering that even brand new major releases such as the Matrix collection are showing up as "Unknown Title". It seems odd to me that this is "optional" and a "recommendation", rather than a mandatory part of the specification. It also means that all these HD-DVDs will be forever broken, since it's problem with the authoring of the specific titles.

Personally, I'd prefer to see the GUID rather than "Unknown Title" when a disc is improperly authored. At least I could then go to the web and try to look up the title's GUID. Even if it isn't as convenient as just having the title displayed right there on the 360, I can actually track down what title owns what file. Right now, it's impossible. If the memory management interface of the dashboard also showed the last modified time on these files, that would help to, as then you look for the most recent file after watching a new movie to see what its GUID is.
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post #131 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

paidgeek,

I saw on thedigitalbits that Sony is expected to release The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen) on DVD in August. Any chance of a Blu-ray release? I hadn't heard of this movie and didn't realize that it had been reviewed so well (95% thumbs up on rottentomatoes.com and currently #74 all time on imdb.com).

--Darin

Dear paidgeek,

I second this question. "Das Leben der Anderen" happens to be my favourite movie (together with Pan's Labyrinth) in 2006. I would be thrilled with a day-and-date BD release.
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post #132 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 06:20 PM
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To BD Insiders: My discs of POTC do not allow this function. Some others have posted this on the blu-ray software thread but not many people seem to want to discuss this. So what is up? A few have speculated that it has something to do with "advanced authoring in BD-J." Is this true and can we see this for future BD releases?

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post #133 of 3651 Old 05-30-2007, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokeith View Post

FilmMixer/Roger-Dolby,

Generally speaking, home theater surround systems have a subwolfer and limited-range satellites. Whereas a theater could have full-range "satellites".

Is there a rule-of-thumb when creating/mixing the LFE? Would it be different for cinema media vs BD/HD DVD?

Commercial theaters all have full range "satellites.." I have never been in a theater which doesn't. Some don't have subs, but that is generally not the case.

Some sound systems use the subs for bass extention, but it is more common to have low end extention on each channel (i.e. a sub on each main channel.)

Each mixer has differnt opinions and methods about it... For me, I will use the sub only for things that aren't storytelling neccessities.. i.e. I never only put something in the sub. This is for two reasons.. one, the theater may or may not have a sub. Two, the sub is the most unpredictable part of the speaker system, and the sub can be greatly affected by the room it's in.

With music, I always try and get as much low end information into the mains as I can, and then go to the sub for the last octave for that extra push.... I will also check alot of times to see what the track will be like without the sub, so that I know that in any environment without a sub the track won't fall apart in the low end.

As far as effects go, the sub is always fair game

As this relates to home theater, sometimes they don't remaster for home, so you get what we had intended for the theaters.. this can create issues because of bass management, where the mains get redirected to the sub for crossed over material from the main speakers set to small.

I just finished a film for Sony, which takes great care in their remastering for the home. One of the things we did is to listen to the track with bass redirection on through an AC-3 encoder/decoder monitor, and we can make adjustments to the track if there is a lot of bass buildup.

Bass management is really the main thing you have to account for in mastering for home video, and it really doesn't cause huge issues most of the time.
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post #134 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 12:23 AM
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To any insiders...is this true??

Disney's Name To Appear Over Unrated Film
30 May 2007

"Only days after renaming its home video division to Disney Home Entertainment, the Walt Disney Co. announced Tuesday that it intends to release Badder Santa: The Unrated Version on November 20 in HD DVD and Blu-ray. In the past, Disney has gone to great lengths to make sure that the Disney name did not appear above any releases that did not reflect the wholesome, family-oriented viewpoint of the company's founder. However, the 2003 Billy Bob Thornton movie inarguably contains the raunchiest language ever delivered in a Christmas movie, and the "unrated" version includes deleted scenes that magnifies the scatological nature of the film. The film, released in high-definition formats at Christmas time may also confuse parents who see the names "Disney" and "Santa" on the cover of the packaging, along with the name of the film's co-star, the late John Ritter. "

Disney on HD DVD??
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post #135 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 05:41 AM
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This is a question for Roger at dolby, or paidgeek.
Since the ps3 can playback truehd, does it mean it´ll play Dolby digital +?
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post #136 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 07:43 AM
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@ Paidgeek :
I'm also stuck with a Yam RX-V1700 Receiver wich doesn't allow the PS3 to "see" that my VP-VW50 projector (Sony Pearl) accepts the 24p feature so it sticks on the 60p.
I tried to split the HDMI signal towards the pearl in one way and the yam in the other way and I have both picture and sound but still @60p.
but when the Yam is unplugged, PS3 switches on 24p.

Looks like the "forced 24p signal" might help because I might not be the only one stuck like this, especially since HDMI is supposed to carry both AUDIO and VIDEO streams ...

Thx for your help !
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post #137 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 10:33 AM
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I also have the same problem with 1080/24 going through a Panasonic X57 receiver.
Paidgeek I hope you can report the problem since many of us have it with the new update.

Thanks
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post #138 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 11:26 AM
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Hello folks,

I've a specific audio question which is probably treading some old ground, so I'm not expecting an extensive answer.

My expectation of the difference in sound between LPCM, DD-THD, and DTS-HD MA is as long as DD Dialog Normalization is turned OFF and both the source material and levels are an exact match (same system and environment used for the comparison), then there should be NO difference.

Am I right? If not, what additional factors need to be considered?

Thanks very much -- Trevor
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post #139 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 11:45 AM
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Paidgeek, i think you missed my question in the other thread.

Any news on Starship Troopers or Bad Boys?
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post #140 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodspoon View Post

This is a question for Roger at dolby, or paidgeek.
Since the ps3 can playback truehd, does it mean it´ll play Dolby digital +?

I am neither but the answer is no . DD+ is an entirely different codec than TrueHD so having one doesn't mean the other works.

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post #141 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 12:54 PM
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Hello,
When MuNa HD DVD will be available?
http://www.side-line.com/side-line_b...22997_0_45_0_C
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post #142 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 01:17 PM
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Paidgeek
My tv is a Mitsubishi WD-65831 dlp
I have just got a verification email from the senior product manager at mits, that my tv does in fact process 1080p thru the pc circuits. This means my tv has to have a 0-255 rgb full for 1080p in order to look correct. I now more then ever need to have sony fix 1.8 to stay in rgb full when launching a blue ray movie, upscaled dvd, or a upscaled PS2 game. Do we have to wait till next month for a fix in the next firmware, or is sony gonna patch 1.8, because I'm not the only person who has this problem. Thanks
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post #143 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post

I now more then ever need to have sony fix 1.8 to stay in rgb full when launching a blue ray movie, upscaled dvd, or a upscaled PS2 game. Do we have to wait till next month for a fix in the next firmware, or is sony gonna patch 1.8, because I'm not the only person who has this problem. Thanks

Paidgeek doesn't work for Sony Computer, he works for Sony Pictures, so the best he can do is pass on your concerns. He already mentioned the feedback has been discussed the last time you asked, which was only 3 days ago. Give it time.

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post #144 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMF222 View Post

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask this, but after all, you guys are insiders. I just got word from my audio guys that Classe pulled the plug on their high end receiver. They claim technology is moving too quickly and they don't want to put out any new equipment until they can ensure it will do everything. I was told there is yet another HDMI spec. There's 1.3a and now there will be a 1.3b. What the heck is the difference now? This is really frustrating. I've been waiting around to get new equipment, but if there are going to be changes every 6 months, I'm scared my equipment will be out of date sooner than those MC Hammer pants I bought in the 80's. Can anyone shed some light on this HDMI 1.3b and what is different about it compared to 1.3a? Should I be worried?

Well, they are right that HDMI is a work in progress. And they seem to have done a far better marketing job, than executing on delivery of it as evidenced of the type of questions you ask. They lead the customer to make certain assumptions, but then don't provide a way for even serious enthusiasts to get the information they need to make informed decisions. Having such information is not likely to make people more disappointed than happy so I guess from some vantage point, it must make sense to some people to have it work this way.

Anyway, yes, there is a 1.3a profile which ostensibly means no advanced audio formats travelling on it. But even in 1.3b, it is not mandatory I don't believe. Only that it enables it.

For a small company like Classe, it is probably difficult to chase such moving targets although I would that staying on the sidelines is even worse.

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post #145 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post

Also the StudioCanal titles store an item under a seperate 'Studio Canal' folder containing the one title each 'Rambo1'
So now there are three entries 'Studio Canal' for each movie played.
I expected that the different StudioCanal titles should show up in a single sub folder.

Another bug?

Physically there are all under the Studio Canal directory, yes, but that is not how the Xbox dash exposes it: it exposes individual titles, or Everything. I believe the Toshiba UI does let you delete, say, all Studio Canel data at once, but Xbox does not.

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post #146 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 04:06 PM
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I believe MS are in favour of and strongly support managed copy for hd dvd movies, i.e. its still mandatory?

Is there any plans for managed copy for the xbox360 games? I'm assuming the same arguments apply to both movies and games.

Regards

John.
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post #147 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_S View Post

Isn't this the sort of thing that could be fixed by looking the GUID up online through the HD-DVD players network connection? Assuming of course there could be a centralised GUID database for HD-DVD... or would that veer too close to tracking users viewing habits?

I shall open a Suggestion bug that the dash displays the guid for Unknown Titles: at least that would allow a manual lookup. There is also another step that can be taken to make studios aware of when they "forget" to set the right data, and I'll open a suggestion for that too.

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post #148 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 04:36 PM
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Quote:


Anyway, yes, there is a 1.3a profile which ostensibly means no advanced audio formats travelling on it. But even in 1.3b, it is not mandatory I don't believe. Only that it enables it.

Could anyone (not just you Amir) elaborate on this info. I have vaguely heard this before, but most of the new receivers from Denon, Pioneer, and Onkyo say HDMI 1.3a, but also internal decode the new lossless audio codecs.
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post #149 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post


Anyway, yes, there is a 1.3a profile which ostensibly means no advanced audio formats travelling on it. But even in 1.3b, it is not mandatory I don't believe. Only that it enables it.

Wait a minute, are you saying that 1.3a will not be capable of passing the advanced audio codecs? That seems contrary to everything I've read/seen so far.
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post #150 of 3651 Old 05-31-2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_W View Post

Could anyone (not just you Amir) elaborate on this info. I have vaguely heard this before, but most of the new receivers from Denon, Pioneer, and Onkyo say HDMI 1.3a, but also internal decode the new lossless audio codecs.

I was about to ask the same question. How can this be reconciled if it "supposedly" can't be sent over with 1.3a?
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