Industry Insiders Master Q&A thread III: ONLY Questions to Insiders - Page 62 - AVS Forum
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post #1831 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

Why is this affecting the use of non-copyrighted source, or am I missing something here?

Clarification:

BDAV is a pure data stream, or even menuless, no-frills video. Think a camcorder tape.
BDMV is a the whole shebang: menus, navigation, BD-J, etc. It's the format that Hollywood uses to release movies on.

BD-R/BD-RE are currently available in "data-grade" formats.

There was (according to paidgeek) no plan to support BDMV playback on data-grade BD-R/RE disks, but it was temporarily allowed on some machines in the first months in order to facilitate content production. Now that that period has expired, BDMV playback on data-grade BD-R/RE disks will be disabled and the only way to achieve BDMV authoring on recordables will be to acquire AACS-approved recordables (which apparently do not currently exist).

So to answer your question, for non-copyrighted source, you had two choices: BDMV on BD-R/RE (data) or BDAV on BD-R/RE (data). Now you have one choice: BDAV on BD-R/RE (data). At some time in the (near?) future you will again have two choices: BDAV on BD-R/RE (data) or BDMV on BD-R/RE (AACS-approved).

Or did you mean, "Why is the industry going so crazy about this that they're allowing this to affect non-copyrighted source?" And I don't have an answer for that.

I do not speak officially in any sense for
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but I do work there.
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post #1832 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by archibael View Post

...Now you have one choice: BDAV on BD-R/RE (data).

Does this mean that software players will also be updated and a bit-for-bit identical copy of a BD movie (sans AACS) on a hard drive (made using AnyDVD, for example) won't be playable (assuming the movie was authored using BDMV)?

Diogen.
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post #1833 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 11:04 AM
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I will try to answer some questions from the AACS perspective about recordable media protected by AACS. In general, keep in mind the following facts:
  • AACS specifies a protection system applicable to Read-only and Recordable media. AACS does not specify when or where you are required to use it -- that would be up to the format groups.
  • AACS specifications are always available online: aacsla website
  • In the past, the general purpose of content protection on recordable media was to comply with requirements to protect recordings of encrypted broadcast content. Now, with the upcoming new feature areas of download-to-burn, managed copy, etc., there are additional product areas that will make use of recording protection.
  • I am not a BD insider and cannot speak for the Blu-ray format. HD DVD does not require AACS protection for media (it is optional for both ROM and R/RW), which makes it easy for content providers and personal filmmakers to avoid the cost and effort of adding AACS content protection when they don't feel it's necessary. Making your own personal movies (including interactivity) and testing HD DVD authoring are two examples where this is handy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Followup questions:

1) Is there an approved specification available for these "AACS BD-R" discs somewhere that we can view today, or is this in development?

Completed : http://www.aacsla.com/specifications/

Quote:


2) When do you estimate that these "AACS BD-R" discs will be on the market for regular buyers?

3) What purpose will can regular "non-AACS" BD-R/RE discs currently on the market serve any more to buyers, in terms of home users creating video content??

4) Why didn't the BDA consider this issue before the launch of the format, instead of retro-fitting this late in the game?

The answers to these questions are decided by the BDA. For example, AACS protection is mandatory for BD-ROM discs, but optional for HD DVD-ROM discs. These decisions are made by the format groups, presumably as a tradeoff between convenience, functionality, and piracy protection.

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Originally Posted by Chilijohn View Post

Out of curiosity, how much does AACS approval add to the cost of a blank right now or perhaps how much is AACS projected to add to the cost of a blank when such discs are available? I don't recall anything like this EVER mentioned when BD was being pushed as the end-all be-all of recordable media.

The fees for AACS keys are also publicly posted: http://www.aacsla.com/support/AACS_I...rmt_070803.pdf page 64. It is 2 cents per disc, plus associated setup fees and order fees (which are minor if the orders are sizeable). You might expect there are other costs in the manufacturing process incurred by the addition of the content protection information.

Keep in mind the first BD-RE discs used an alternate content protection system, BD-CPS, so the discs already had CP costs built into them. I am not a BD insider, so I do not know what content protection system (if any) is currently shipped on BD-R discs, but I would be suprised to learn they had none, as they are generally required for recording encrypted broadcast content.

Blu-ray has details up at their CP licensing site:http://www.blu-raydisc.info/content_..._re3.shtml#re3
Assuming this site is accurate, BD-RE discs switched from BD-CPS protection in version RE(key)1, to using AACS in version RE2. BD-R discs always relied on AACS protection. The costs for BD-CPS were also 2 cents per disc.

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On the same topic for HD-DVD insiders, is there any similar AACS requirement in the specs for HD-DVD blanks? The price of blanks being kept artificially high due to AACS smacks of an industry-imposed tax on blank media.

The fees would be the same for HD DVD media (2 cents per disc).

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post #1834 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diogen View Post

Does this mean that software players will also be updated and a bit-for-bit identical copy of a BD movie (sans AACS) on a hard drive (made using AnyDVD, for example) won't be playable (assuming the movie was authored using BDMV)?

Diogen.

I don't know, I was just interpreting for those who weren't following the shorthand.

I would assume it's just related to the BD-R/RE media, but paidgeek or Talkstr8 would know better.

I do not speak officially in any sense for
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but I do work there.
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post #1835 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 11:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post


Existing media can be used for BDAV, or HDAVC content. HDAVC seems to be a pretty good spec for making HD movie discs with the basic features of DVD. We are looking into this for our own purposes.

So I've just invested in an HDD camcorder. I am recording in XP format (AVCHD 15Mbps variable) on an HDR-SR8, and I am expected to burn about 20 minutes to a DVD? I don't think that is what I had in mind. It's nice that the layout works on DVD, but why shouldn't I be able to edit and burn these to a BD-R/E? Can you confirm that I will be able to do burn my home movies on a BD-R/E rather than this approved media the BDA speaks of?

Also curious what this means for the Hitachi BD camcorders that have been announced, will they require this special media?

One other question I have which I can't seem to get an answer to, and have not had a chance to try yet, is can I stream the AVCHD format m2ts file from my camcorder or PC via Zune or WMP 11 to the PS3's media server link? I know that you can play these files directly from the PS3, but what about streaming? MS folks please chime in if you have any idea...
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post #1836 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 11:30 AM
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Hi, all,

I've received permission to relay information I received from a CE vendor contact. Some of this slightly contradicts what might be interpreted from what paidgeek has posted; hopefully he'll be able to check with his sources and either confirm what I've posted or either of us will correct as required.

Most current Blu-ray players were shipped with "grace period" support where they weren't required to fully implement AACS on BD-R/-RE discs. In practice what this means on these players is that a BD-R/-RE disc authored with AACS copy protection will not play, while BD-R/-RE discs without AACS copy protection are permitted to play.

Now that the grace period is over players must either fully support AACS from BD-R/-RE, or they may not support BDMV from BD-R/-RE at all. If a player does support AACS from BD-R/-RE it may also support BDMV from non-AACS BD-R/-RE (just as many current players do). Therefore once AACS is fully supported from BD-R/-RE on a given player, the situation will be no different than it is today. Bear in mind that BD-R/-RE support is not required on a Blu-ray Disc player (just as DVD(+/-)R/RW support isn't required on a DVD player). However, I expect most future players will fully support BDMV from BD-R/-RE (with or without AACS). My contact says a firmware upgrade to the players recently released without BDMV BD-R/-RE support is technically possible, but hasn't yet been committed to.

Based on this explanation, I don't believe there is any change in BD-R/-RE media whatsoever, but that this is purely a firmware-related issue. I also don't believe there's an obligation to firmware update players released during the grace period to remove the ability to playback BDMV from BD-R/-RE, but I'm trying to confirm this.

Hope this helps clarify things.

- Talk

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post #1837 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

I wonder if some of the other non-neutral studios will start paying attention:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal...367&newsLang=en

30% of a small market is still less than 15% of a large market. As long as there is format confusion in the marketplace the total pie will be much smaller than it will when there is only one format.
Quote:


Insiders, are studios starting to question their non-nuetrality?

I've not seen the slightest indication of any Blu-ray exclusive studio questioning their commitment to the format or considering neutrality. To the contrary, I see their commitment strengthening (i.e. the Disney mall tour).
Quote:


Will they let the neutral studios eat their lunch?

I don't see how Warner selling a copy of 300 on HD DVD takes food off of Fox or Disney's plate... It's a different customer base, other than for those consumers who have both formats (in which case Warner's neutrality isn't a factor).

- Talk

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post #1838 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Hi, all,

I've received permission to relay information I received from a CE vendor contact. Some of this slightly contradicts what might be interpreted from what paidgeek has posted; hopefully he'll be able to check with his sources and either confirm what I've posted or either of us will correct as required.

Most current Blu-ray players were shipped with "grace period" support where they weren't required to fully implement AACS on BD-R/-RE discs. In practice what this means on these players is that a BD-R/-RE disc authored with AACS copy protection will not play, while BD-R/-RE discs without AACS copy protection are permitted to play.

Now that the grace period is over players must either fully support AACS from BD-R/-RE, or they may not support BDMV from BD-R/-RE at all. If a player does support AACS from BD-R/-RE it may also support BDMV from non-AACS BD-R/-RE (just as many current players do). Therefore once AACS is fully supported from BD-R/-RE on a given player, the situation will be no different than it is today. Bear in mind that BD-R/-RE support is not required on a Blu-ray Disc player (just as DVD(+/-)R/RW support isn't required on a DVD player). However, I expect most future players will fully support BDMV from BD-R/-RE (with or without AACS). My contact says a firmware upgrade to the players recently released without BDMV BD-R/-RE support is technically possible, but hasn't yet been committed to.

Based on this explanation, I don't believe there is any change in BD-R/-RE media whatsoever, but that this is purely a firmware-related issue. I also don't believe there's an obligation to firmware update players released during the grace period to remove the ability to playback BDMV from BD-R/-RE, but I'm trying to confirm this.

Hope this helps clarify things.

- Talk


Talk,

Thank you very much for the explanation.

Quick follow up questions:

1) Does the Sony BDPS-300 have non-AACS BDMV support?
2) If no, is there any AACS certified media available for this player?
3) Were consumers notified of the "grace period"?

Not at all trying to be argumentative but instead trying to answer a simple question: If I want to commit my current home videos to Blu-ray what is the best player and media available *now*. Should I have any concern that these videos won't be able to play on future players?
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post #1839 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDoherty View Post

I will try to answer some questions from the AACS perspective about recordable media protected by AACS.

Thank you very much for your participation, Richard. I found your response quite enlightening and I believe it has added some insight to the discussion.

As a followup to all insiders:

1) If the AACS BD-R spec was finalised July 28th, 2006, why are there still no AACS BD-R discs on the market. I am especially surprised, since it seems clear that the BDA knew that the "Special Exemption" period was expiring?

2) Was the special exemption period brought in because studios were concerned that there were no "test bed" sites for them to test their software on, and there were high costs associated with implementing AACS on every test disc that they had to burn?

3) Could the fact that HD DVD does NOT require AACS protection on Users' self-recorded home movies represent a distinct advantage to the HD DVD format.

4) Could the fact that Bluray *does require* AACS on test BD-ROMs produced by the studios be considered a disadvantage to the BD format?

5) Am I correct in my interpretation that any BDMV content burned to a DVD-9 red laser disc for playback on Bluray players will ALSO require AACS protection, or a special AACS-approved disc? Or is this down to the interpretation of the manufacturer?
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post #1840 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Now that the grace period is over players must either fully support AACS from BD-R/-RE, or they may not support BDMV from BD-R/-RE at all.

Gotcha. Isn't that what we have understood already? ie. under the mandatory requirement rules, if the player cannot support AACS on BDMV for BD-R, then the player is not allowed to support BDMV on BD-R without AACS?

Quote:


If a player does support AACS from BD-R/-RE it may also support BDMV from non-AACS BD-R/-RE (just as many current players do). Therefore once AACS is fully supported from BD-R/-RE on a given player, the situation will be no different than it is today.

Hi Talk,

Does this second part not conflict with the first part, as welll as with *everything* we have been informed by the insiders so far?

If AACS is mandatory for BDMV content on BD-R/RE discs, then HOW can a player "either support AACS, or not support AACS"? If the player does not have support for AACS/BDMV/BD-R, then under the rules the player should not be allowed to play BDMV on BD-R if it is not protected by AACS, correct??

I invite any other insider to help clarify this satisfactorily, also.
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post #1841 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxi View Post

Quick follow up questions:

1) Does the Sony BDPS-300 have non-AACS BDMV support?

Based on reports elsewhere, no.
Quote:


2) If no, is there any AACS certified media available for this player?

Based on the information I've received there is no "AACS certified media" - it's purely a firmware issue. Whether Sony will provide a future firmware update to this player to enable BD-R/-RE BDMV support is unclear.
Quote:


3) Were consumers notified of the "grace period"?

BD-R/-RE support is always optional. It would be up to a consumer to verify whether a given player supports the optional features they desire. I've confirmed with my contact that his company has no intention of disabling BDMV BD-R/-RE playback on players which currently support it, nor does he believe other vendors will.
Quote:


Not at all trying to be argumentative but instead trying to answer a simple question: If I want to commit my current home videos to Blu-ray what is the best player and media available *now*. Should I have any concern that these videos won't be able to play on future players?

As has been posted, any player which supports BD-R/-RE should continue to support, at a minimum, BDAV, which will allow you to view your videos, albeit perhaps with less in the way of interactivity and menuing. I also think you can be fairly comfortable in purchasing a player which currently supports BDMV from BD-R/-RE without fear that this capability will be removed.

- Talk

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post #1842 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:25 PM
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Talk,

If I understand what you are saying, the grace period has now expired, BDMV content without AACS on writable media is not permitted until the player fully implements AACS, if ever.

The consequence is that Blu-Ray as a distribution format will not achieve 100% player compatibility with writable media, not now, not ever. From independent producers to wedding videographers, what a mess this creates.
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post #1843 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

If the AACS BD-R spec was finalised July 28th, 2006, why are there still no AACS BD-R discs on the market.

Based on my information there are no AACS BD-R discs.
Quote:


Could the fact that HD DVD does NOT require AACS protection on Users' self-recorded home movies represent a distinct advantage to the HD DVD format.

Blu-ray does not require AACS protection on users' home movies. It requires players to support AACS on BD-R/-RE if it is present.
Quote:


Could the fact that Bluray *does require* AACS on test BD-ROMs produced by the studios be considered a disadvantage to the BD format?

If you're a major studio you may well consider the AACS requirement on BD-ROM an advantage, as it makes it much more difficult to produce pirate BD-ROM copies of a movie. To the extent this keeps studios in the Blu-ray camp, this is to the advantage of the consumer. If you're a studio with no interest in protecting your content via AACS, this requirement may be perceived as a (minor) disadvantage, as it increases production costs (but only trivially for any reasonably-sized production run).
Quote:


Am I correct in my interpretation that any BDMV content burned to a DVD-9 red laser disc for playback on Bluray players will ALSO require AACS protection, or a special AACS-approved disc? Or is this down to the interpretation of the manufacturer?

There is no requirement for BDMV content burned to recordable media to have AACS protection. The only requirement is that (new) players which support BD-R/-RE BDMV media must support AACS as well.
Quote:


If AACS is mandatory for BDMV content on BD-R/RE discs, then HOW can a player "either support AACS, or not support AACS"?

AACS is not mandatory for BD-R/-RE BDMV content. What's mandatory is if the player supports BDMV from BD-R/-RE, it must fully support AACS if present on that content.

- Talk

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post #1844 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

It would be up to a consumer to verify whether a given player supports the optional features they desire. I've confirmed with my contact that his company has no intention of disabling BDMV BD-R/-RE playback on players which currently support it, nor does he believe other vendors will.

Thanks for this, Talk. My question is this. Given that the only two players (apart from the PS3) that support this right now appear to be from Panasonic and Pioneer, are you saying that new BD Players released from these or any other manufacturers will block this feature?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

As has been posted, any player which supports BD-R/-RE should continue to support, at a minimum, BDAV, which will allow you to view your videos, albeit perhaps with less in the way of interactivity and menuing.

With respect, Talk, doesn't this quote appear to contradict the sentence before it? the frist quote says this support will not change at all. The second quote says this support may be downgraded to BDAV, which is very different, no?

A third question. Since the "special exemption" period has now expired, will newly manufactured models of previously released players have to conform to the mandatory AACS requirement?

Again, I welcome any insiders to help clarify these questions.
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post #1845 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Blu-ray does not require AACS protection on users' home movies.

Even if those home movies use the BDMV structure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

The only requirement is that (new) players which support BD-R/-RE BDMV media must support AACS as well.

Ahh, this makes it clear - can someone also confirm this?
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post #1846 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post

If I understand what you are saying, the grace period has now expired, BDMV content without AACS on writable media is not permitted until the player fully implements AACS, if ever.

Yes, for players released after the grace period expired. There doesn't appear to be an obligation to remove this capability from already released-players, and my contact has confirmed that his company has no intention of removing this capability, nor does he believe that other vendors will.
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The consequence is that Blu-Ray as a distribution format will not achieve 100% player compatibility with writable media, not now, not ever. From independent producers to wedding videographers, what a mess this creates.

For better or for worse, this guarantee doesn't exist with DVD either; isn't DVD+R and DVD-R compatibility only about 85%? Further, BD-R/-RE support isn't mandated for a BD-ROM player.

Nonetheless, most players today do support BD-R/-RE media, which implies they support (at a minimum) BDAV. I expect any released which don't support BDMV are reasonably likely to be updated to do so, and I expect most future players will fully support BDMV from BD-R/-RE.

Bottom line? If you choose to author with BDMV rather than BDAV there might be a small number of models for which your content won't work.

- Talk

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post #1847 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:35 PM
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But if AACS is not present on the player side, BDMV is not permitted to play whether the disk has AACS or not.

Talk is very straight on this point.
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post #1848 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:38 PM
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I realize that I am hogging a little space here, so I will make this my last question for the time being - as I am learning a lot and it triggers other thoughts.

This seems like a big question - as there seems to be some inconsistencies in the use of the word "mandatory".

1) What does "mandatory" mean when it is said that AACS BD-R support is mandatory. It would make sense that this SHOULD mean that ALL Bluray players should be able to support AACS BDMV BD-R playback, or not meet th spec for a player, no?

2) If AACS BD-R support is not mandatory, then from the answer given here so far, it would appear that most BD Players cannot support BD-R BDMV, since they will not be allowed to since they appear to have no AACS BD-R support.

3) Can the PS3 currently support the playback of AACS encoded BDMV content on BD-R discs?
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post #1849 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Given that the only two players (apart from the PS3) that support this right now appear to be from Panasonic and Pioneer

I'm told the Sony BDP-S1 also supports BDMV from BD-R/-RE.
Quote:


are you saying that new BD Players released from these or any other manufacturers will block this feature?

I'm saying that until they support AACS from BD-R/-RE they will not support any BDMV content from BD-R/-RE, whether as initially shipped or via a subsequent firmware update.
Quote:


With respect, Talk, doesn't this quote appear to contradict the sentence before it? the frist quote says this support will not change at all. The second quote says this support may be downgraded to BDAV, which is very different, no?

No. I'm not referring specifically to existing players, I'm referring to all players, whether existing or to-be-introduced. If it supports BD-R/-RE media, it will support BDAV. It also may support BDMV, either as a "grace period" player or as one which can fully support AACS.
Quote:


A third question. Since the "special exemption" period has now expired, will newly manufactured models of previously released players have to conform to the mandatory AACS requirement?

No. These requirements relate to when a given model is released, not when a given player is manufactured.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Blu-ray does not require AACS protection on users' home movies.

Even if those home movies use the BDMV structure?

Correct. Only BD-ROM content must use AACS.

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post #1850 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Bottom line? If you choose to author with BDMV rather than BDAV there might be a small number of models for which your content won't work.

- Talk

So as a wedding videographer I will not be able to author a Blu-ray disk with a full menu structure and be assured it will work on my clients machine?

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post #1851 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I realize that I am hogging a little space here, so I will make this my last question for the time being - as I am learning a lot and it triggers other thoughts.

This seems like a big question - as there seems to be some inconsistencies in the use of the word "mandatory".

1) What does "mandatory" mean when it is said that AACS BD-R support is mandatory. It would make sense that this SHOULD mean that ALL Bluray players should be able to support AACS BDMV BD-R playback, or not meet th spec for a player, no?

No. A BD-ROM player is not required to support BD-R/-RE media at all (though most do), just as a DVD player is not required to support DVD(+/-)R/RW media. If it does support BD-R/-RE BDMV it must support AACS as well if the player model was released after the grace period.
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2) If AACS BD-R support is not mandatory, then from the answer given here so far, it would appear that most BD Players cannot support BD-R BDMV, since they will not be allowed to since they appear to have no AACS BD-R support.

Most BD players were released during the grace period, and hence are allowed to support BD-R BDMV content regardless of their ability to support AACS.
Quote:


Can the PS3 currently support the playback of AACS encoded BDMV content on BD-R discs?

I don't know.

I'm looking forward to a break from your questions, rdjam (which I suspect are aimed at finding some way to represent this as the next big Blu-ray Disc scandal for your website). I hope you'll take the high ground and not misrepresent what I hope has been a very clear explanation of the situation.

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post #1852 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:47 PM
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Talk,

My opinion of BD authoring is blunt, but I appreciate your candor.

Thank you for your help.
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post #1853 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSKTexas View Post

So as a wedding videographer I will not be able to author a Blu-ray disk with a full menu structure and be assured it will work on my clients machine?

That's correct - you should confirm it's a model which supports playback of BDMV from BD-R/-RE media. I suspect most models will ultimately do so, either as released or via subsequent firmware upgrade.

Question for you: How do you choose whether to burn on DVD-R or DVD+R? I've burned discs for family/friends and found incompatibilities with both formats. Do you just pick one and if they can't play it swap it for the other format?

- Talk

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post #1854 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:51 PM
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Hi Paidgeek,

I think all of us are at risk of becoming a little confused here. Talkstr8t, in his posts, has said that your previous information was incorrect. I think we totally understand that mistakes happen, and would just like to know which statements were right.

Could you confirm whether talk is correct and your previous statements were incorrect? I honestly am just trying to resolve the differences here, and I am terribly sorry to have to put you on the spot.

Please note that I am talking about the situation as it pertains to now forward- not how it existed under the "special exemption" grace period.
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Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

The menu capabilities of BDAV are minimal, but consumers will be able to use the full BDMV spec if they choose to, so long as they are using approved AACS recordable media....

...Blu-ray players were never supposed to support BDMV authored content using ordinary data type BD-R or BD-RE media. An exemption was made for a number of months so that available blank discs could be used for testing and other promotional activities; this exemption expired recently.

Consumers will be able to record their own authored movies using recordable media designed for this purpose (as specified by AACS). This media is designed to stop copies of copies of copyrighted material, something we can't prevent right now with the current media and drives.

Rest assured that Apple and other companies have been very vocal in the BDA to insure that consumers will have the ability to take full advantage of the movie specifications to make full featured discs if they so desire.

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post #1855 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

That's correct - you should confirm it's a model which supports playback of BDMV from BD-R/-RE media. I suspect most models will ultimately do so, either as released or via subsequent firmware upgrade.

Question for you: How do you choose whether to burn on DVD-R or DVD+R? I've burned discs for family/friends and found incompatibilities with both formats. Do you just pick one and if they can't play it swap it for the other format?

- Talk

I always burn to DVD-R (or DL) and have never had a problem. The problem I see is will the ability to have a menu structure on the disk. Both DVD-R and DVD+R allow a menu structure, if BDMV doesn't work what would the alternative be ( I want to keep the menu structure) ?

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post #1856 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post

rdjam,
Here are the rules:

A.) Pre-Grace Player

1.) Plays BDMV if no AACS present on disk
2.) No play BDMV if AACS present on disk

B.) Post Grace Player without AACS support

1.) No play BDMV


C.) Post Grace Player with AACS support

1.) Plays BDMV if no AACS present on disk
2.) Plays BDMV with AACS if handshake between disk and player
3.) No Play BDMV if AACS present on disk but no handshake with player

Think of it as HDMI for disks.

What would cause the "no handshake" situation?

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post #1857 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Thanks Tom.

I fear that we have two different accounts that cannot re-concile right now. I do not want to make assumptions as to who is wrong where, and it would be best if one of the parties could let us know which account is incorrect - specifically in terms of the situation for players AFTER today, with the mandatory requirements back in place.

Anyone - Would my addition to this chart above by Tom also be correct?

D.) Post-Grace Player with without AACS BD-R support

1.) Will not play BDMV AACS content on BD-R
2.) Will not play BDMV non-AACS content on BD-R
3.) MAY perhaps play BDAV on BD-R
4.) Or MAY, perhaps, not play BD-R discs at all.

This really needs to be answered and clarified because the consequences are HUGE! Especially for independent (at home) videographers like me.

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post #1858 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 01:20 PM
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Can someone point me to definitions for the Boggle soup that's filling the posts now? I'm good with AACS and all of the media designators, but I'm clueless on BDMV and BDAV . . .

TIA
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post #1859 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 01:37 PM
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If a client has just spent $1800 on a wedding video how am I going to tell him/her their screwed or that they need a new $$$ player. It just seems to me that these rules should have been established before players were introduced.

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post #1860 of 3651 Old 08-07-2007, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I fear that we have two different accounts that cannot re-concile right now.

Paid did note that he had incomplete information and was working to get full clarity.
Quote:


Would my addition to this chart above by Tom also be correct?

D.) Post-Grace Player with without AACS BD-R support

1.) Will not play BDMV AACS content on BD-R
2.) Will not play BDMV non-AACS content on BD-R
3.) MAY perhaps play BDAV on BD-R
4.) Or MAY, perhaps, not play BD-R discs at all.

There are only two reasons a post-grace player wouldn't have AACS BD-R support.:
  1. It doesn't read BD-R/-RE media at all
  2. It only supports BDAV
In the first case it's probably an optical issue and might never support BD-R/-RE (though I'd be surprised if current or future drives were released without BD-R/-RE support). In the second case BDMV support (with and without AACS) could be added via firmware update should the vendor choose to do so.

- Talk

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