Industry Insiders Master Q&A thread III: ONLY Questions to Insiders - Page 85 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #2521 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 11:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
paidgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

But that is not what you said or I may have let it alone . Here is what you said that got me going:


Assuming the data just posted is accurate (there are many more titles with DTS lossless in Europe), in your book, 43 titles means it is a theoretical feature?

Sorry for winding you up... To be very specific, what I am saying is that using lossless coding on all HD-DVD titles is not practical because it will compromise the picture. Not so on Blu-ray. Period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I have trouble even with your new statement. Please show me evidence that Universal put 1.5 Mbit/sec DD+ on majority of their titles “because it did not fit.”

Since all HD-DVD players can play a lossless track, what other reason would there be? Do you think that Universal is giving customers something less than they would like just because they decided that DD+ was good enough?


Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

“May not?” So you don’t know if they will or will not put lossless track on it but go ahead and use it as a proof point in this argument?

It's not my place to state categorically what a another studio will or won't do. Just trying to be repectful to those that have expressed their opinon at Paramount.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I absolutely think in some cases you absolutely are kidding yourself (well, not really, you are going after marketing specs not fidelity but you use that word so I will also go with it ). 24-bit audio? For a movie soundtrack? Please tell me what double blind tests you have done that shows 24-bit audio is superior in any way over properly dithered 20 or even 16-bits. The science is not on your side, and neither are actual results. Yet here you are, bragging about 24-bit audio to use up bandwidth and space.

You have an amazing ability to extrapolate information into fiction. I have never stated anywhere anytime that 24bit is significantly better than 20bit. 20 bit is superior to 16 bit, I can hear that and decent equipment can reproduce the difference. Current audio masters are 24bit and customers are asking for the whole thing. We will move towards support this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

As to lossy vs lossless, isn’t it strange that no broad study has been done to prove its benefits for movies in surround? Why not conduct a double blind test of 100 movie buffs with 1.5 mbit/sec DD+ against PCM audio and see what percentage can tell the difference when they are level matched? I mean if this is such an essential feature and folks have to be an idiot to not hear the difference, the tests should be overwhelmingly in your favor, right?

Blu-ray does not have to compromise, so we don't need to do a study to justify a less than optimum solution. Why don't you conduct a study yourself administered by a film school or other disinterested 3rd party. Better still, why not just read what audio engineers have posted on this forum?


Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

As to folks imagining things on current discs, well, there is no attempt to make those tests fair by making levels identical. And of course, they are never blind. In audio testing, getting these two things right are essential to arrive at good results.

We have made more than an attempt. We have turned off dial norm as a result of requests from members. It is not difficult to do your own comparison with level matched audio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Mind you, I am a big fan of lossless for music. And I am not here to say that lossy=lossless. It is not. I am just after not letting people think that because they put high octane gas in their engine, their car all of a sudden runs twice as fast because the number is bigger.

We have responded to what customers say they want. If they want more tracks, and don't care about lossless coding, we can do that, but that's not the message we are getting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Are you saying that you will be able to bring movies to market sooner than Warner, Paramount and Universal because you have region coding? How is that so?

Because we can release a title in North America without causing serious issues when it is still running theatrically in other parts of the globe, but you know this...


Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Your stance seems to be that BD format is a better thing for consumers.

Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Yet region coding is one of the most hated "features" of DVD for people living outside of US. Even in US it is a pain. I have gotten amazing gift packages of Anime from our content partners in Japan, only to see the excitement from my children turn into a puzzled look when they can’t play them in their US players. I had to get them a Japanese HD DVD player so that they can watch them!

Your Japanese Blu-ray discs will work just fine. They are in the same region.



Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

And doesn’t Sony sell DVD players outside of US which allows region coding to be defeated? How is that consistent with your views?

I don't know what Sony players do outside of the US, but isn't this an HD discussion?


Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

And keep in mind that any bandwidth advantage you think you have over HD DVD goes right out the window as you stuff your discs with redundant PCM+TrueHD streams, or multiple lossless tracks vs. high quality lossy. Put another way, as you shrink the video rate, you reduce whatever quality advantage you want to brag about there for some of the biggest markets in the world which listens to the primary track.

For any player in the market, Blu-ray will always have room for at least 2 or 3 losslessly coded audio tracks when compared with and HD-DVD (assuming the video encode is common between the two and for optimum quality in may not be). Our European customers are as descriminating as our US customers and they want lossless.

Sony Pictures BD Insider
paidgeek is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2522 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 11:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JeffY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: England
Posts: 3,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Doesn't Blu Ray have to compromise video , audio or both with BD25s?

When will all Blu Ray titles be released on DB50s?
JeffY is offline  
post #2523 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 12:00 PM
Senior Member
 
captaincelluloid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Somewhere in a BLUE STATE
Posts: 351
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey, FILM MIXER

What is your take on this "discussion" between AMIRM and PAIDGEEK
on the technical merits as you see / hear them? I respect both of their opinions . . . . but you're the hands on audio guy.

Sorry if this has been "asked and answered" before but this whole question
of 24 bit vs 16 bit vs 24 bit truncated to 16 bit vs lossless PCM vs lossless True HD just keeps coming up.

Also, did I understand correctly that Dolby TRUE HD can be either 16bit or 24bit?? and is that a good thing?

-30-

PS: Saw SUPERBAD in two different cities -- one looked and sounded AWFUL and the other looked and sounded good. Seems like something
bad is afoot with the release printing. The bad print had six raw stock splices, really messy ones, and I could hear the audio defaulting to optical and a couple of times it didn't come back to digital. Excessive raw stock splices are always a bad sign of a studio more interested in the lowest bid than picture or sound quality.

Perhaps the studios thought that the target audience for SUPERBAD didn't care or didn't notice . . . but they were wrong.

PPS; with apology to PAID GEEK -- I couldn't figure out how to get your quotes into this thing. Hey, I'm a Film Guy, not a computer guy.



Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I absolutely think in some cases you absolutely are kidding yourself (well, not really, you are going after marketing specs not fidelity but you use that word so I will also go with it ). 24-bit audio? For a movie soundtrack? Please tell me what double blind tests you have done that shows 24-bit audio is superior in any way over properly dithered 20 or even 16-bits. The science is not on your side, and neither are actual results. Yet here you are, bragging about 24-bit audio to use up bandwidth and space.

As to lossy vs lossless, isn't it strange that no broad study has been done to prove its benefits for movies in surround? Why not conduct a double blind test of 100 movie buffs with 1.5 mbit/sec DD+ against PCM audio and see what percentage can tell the difference when they are level matched? I mean if this is such an essential feature and folks have to be an idiot to not hear the difference, the tests should be overwhelmingly in your favor, right?

As to folks imagining things on current discs, well, there is no attempt to make those tests fair by making levels identical. And of course, they are never blind. In audio testing, getting these two things right are essential to arrive at good results.

Mind you, I am a big fan of lossless for music. And I am not here to say that lossy=lossless. It is not. I am just after not letting people think that because they put high octane gas in their engine, their car all of a sudden runs twice as fast because the number is bigger.

As you have said, BD can't stuff more than a few lossless track on disc anyway.

And keep in mind that any bandwidth advantage you think you have over HD DVD goes right out the window as you stuff your discs with redundant PCM+TrueHD streams, or multiple lossless tracks vs. high quality lossy. Put another way, as you shrink the video rate, you reduce whatever quality advantage you want to brag about there for some of the biggest markets in the world which listens to the primary track.


Film Is NOT DEAD -- it is the Gold Standard against which all other formats are measured

Support ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO
captaincelluloid is offline  
post #2524 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 12:07 PM
Senior Member
 
efxmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

Your Japanese Blu-ray discs will work just fine. They are in the same region.

I think he meant normal DVD's. As region coding in the past has been a pain for those of us with foreign tastes in culture and movies.
efxmaster is offline  
post #2525 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 12:10 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Kosty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North East USA
Posts: 14,683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

This is a typical scenario for a smaller label like us. Larger Studios tend to get a little more margin than we do. Their discounts to retailers are typically not quite as aggressive as ours.

$29.98 - Retail Price of HD / BD Disc
- 14.99 - Average Discount of 50%
- 2.00 - Average Fees for Retail Placement
----------
$12.99 - Wholesale Revenue
- 2.60 - Average Distribution Fee of 20% Paid to Studio
(Revenue to Studio on Distribution Deal. Different structire for Royalty Deal)
----------
$10.39 - Gross Revenue
- 2.00 -
Manufacturing Costs
----------
$8.39 - Revenue before deductions for Marketing, Advertising, and Amortization of Advances, Production Costs, HD / BD Authoring Costs, etc.
----------
- 4.20
(Payments to Producers, Director, Actors, Composers, Musicians, etc, as well as Residuals, Music, Publishing, Royalties, Licensing, etc. I estimate they are 50% of the revenue on average.)
----------
$ 4.20
Once all costs and fees are covered, this is what may be left for the Content Owner, Producer, or Studio that owns the Property.

This is an oversimplified example...and there are numerous other deal structures that change the numbers a bit....as well as other factors that come in to play. However, this is a basic example of how it works.

RBfilms:

Do the additional mandatory AACS charges I mentioned above be a significant hurdle for most small content providers to release on Blu-ray disc?

How bad does the extra cost of AACS hurt the bottom line or the decision to release a disc in HD?

Can there any pressure on AACS or the BDA to reduce those costs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

It would seem that the mandatory AACS fees and extra costs fora small content provider would make Blu-ray substantially more expensive to produce.

Under the scenario I provided, with 3 check discs, and no AACS used for HD DVD, a small studio could possibly save $19,000 by using 15GB HD DVD discs or $11,700 by using 30GB HD DVD discs over a BD25 for a small 25,000 replication. A lot of niche content could fit on the 15GB discs using VC-1 or AVC.

They would save $36,000 or $16,000 for 100,000 discs over the Blu-ray total costs.

Would that not be possibly a significant factor in deciding whether or not to release a low volume selling product in HD or not?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2521

.
"A lot of good arguments are spoiled by some fool who knows what he is talking about." - Miguel de Unamuno


follow me on Twitter
Kosty is offline  
post #2526 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 12:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Azumi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: France
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

But it is broken. No disc is big enough to have a dozen lossless audio tracks on it. So if we care about the world at large (and we do as our software is routinely localized for some 26 langauges), we better be in favor of technology progression to allow everyone to enjoy the movie in their own language or at least subtitles.

But wouldn't that still be a compromise to cover for the limited - and lacking - bandwidth of HD DVD?

And assuming that a HD DVD had nine audio tracks out of the box, including a PCM track, who would be the gatekeeper that states that the remaining bandwidth is "good enough" for having a proficient video?
Azumi is offline  
post #2527 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 12:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
SomethingMore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Amir,

It was announced a little while back that HD movie downloads would be coming to Canadian users of XBox Live. At the time, no date was given.

Can you provide any more information? Scheduled dates? Will we be able to get all of the same movies as US customers? Will you be sending HD DVD shirts to all Canadian users for being as patient as we are?
SomethingMore is offline  
post #2528 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 12:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
paidgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffY View Post

Doesn't Blu Ray have to compromise video , audio or both with BD25s?

When will all Blu Ray titles be released on DB50s?

There is no compromise in using a BD-25 so long as the runtime is reasonable or the video encode difficulty is well managed. Most titles are already released on BD-50, but we will continue to use BD-25 so long as it does not restrict what we want to do with a title.

Sony Pictures BD Insider
paidgeek is offline  
post #2529 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 12:26 PM
Member
 
Danny_N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

You download it once and play it forever from that point on. If you run out of space and/or happy with the track that came with the disc, you can delete them.

Don't you need a hard drive for that? As far as I know no standalone HD-DVD player has a hard drive built in so how would I be able to download extra soundtracks and store them?
Danny_N is offline  
post #2530 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JeffY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: England
Posts: 3,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

There is no compromise in using a BD-25 so long as the runtime is reasonable or the video encode difficulty is well managed. Most titles are already released on BD-50, but we will continue to use BD-25 so long as it does not restrict what we want to do with a title.

Thanks Paid, have Warner switched to DB50s yet?
JeffY is offline  
post #2531 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 12:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
paidgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffY View Post

Thanks Paid, have Warner switched to DB50s yet?

I think WB has used BD50 very consistently. Thanks to the work of the dedicated, I'm sure there is a thread that breaks this down by studio somewhere. If a member will kindly PM me with a link, I will post it here.

Sony Pictures BD Insider
paidgeek is offline  
post #2532 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 01:18 PM
Member
 
MikeDV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This is for any Blu-Ray insiders.

I've asked Amir twice to elaborate on the following statement yet have not received a reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

A top title can cost up to $500K to produce if it has nice interactivity and bunch of extras. Let's assume that a studio wants to come close to what Universal has done in releasing > 100 titles in a year and half. That puts the up front cost at $50M right there! Who should pay for this? One could make the argument that studios should because they will reap the benefits later. Others say no, the people with the patents should.

Are you saying that Microsoft as the patent holder is assuming these production costs? If so, are you assuming these costs for Paramount? Universal? Warner?

In all fairness to Amir, before I make the assumption that a lack of reply is a "yes", are the up front production costs for any of the Blu-Ray studios being covered by any of the BD patent holders or authoring houses?

Thanks,

Mike

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post11374156

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post11381578
MikeDV is offline  
post #2533 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 04:20 PM
Member
 
dimsumx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

And won't that require new HW/Drive to read those triple layer disks ?

Same question, but along the same line, would any new media developed for capacity require new hardware or would these be all developed for current hardware and software updates in mind?

Also, Amir? Can you answer a question a few pages back regarding Microsoft's stake in HDDVD?

Thanks!
dimsumx is offline  
post #2534 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 04:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BenDover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 5,331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDV View Post

This is for any Blu-Ray insiders.

I've asked Amir twice to elaborate on the following statement yet have not received a reply.



Are you saying that Microsoft as the patent holder is assuming these production costs? If so, are you assuming these costs for Paramount? Universal? Warner?

In all fairness to Amir, before I make the assumption that a lack of reply is a "yes", are the up front production costs for any of the Blu-Ray studios being covered by any of the BD patent holders or authoring houses?

Thanks,

Mike

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post11374156

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post11381578

amir,

doesn't MS hold only a fraction of the patents that are required for BD and/or HD DVD?

are the listings provided at www.mpegla.com accurate?
BenDover is offline  
post #2535 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 04:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
UxiSXRD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I absolutely think in some cases you absolutely are kidding yourself (well, not really, you are going after marketing specs not fidelity but you use that word so I will also go with it ). 24-bit audio? For a movie soundtrack? Please tell me what double blind tests you have done that shows 24-bit audio is superior in any way over properly dithered 20 or even 16-bits.

Isn't lossless audio a feature of both high def formats that can help it excel over more mundane legacy audio found on DVD?

Isn't lossless audio, either uncompressed PCM or compressed with codecs like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio (if there's ever a player that can decode it), identical to the studio master as long as it's at the original bit depth? Thus, shouldn't the onus of proof be on proponents of lossy audio codecs and/or lower bit-depth audio to conduct their own tests to prove that they're not causing any noticible perceptual differences in their own studies, instead?

If any of the other insiders, especially Roger from Dolby or Home Theater Man (apologize if I mangled the handle) want to comment, that would be great, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

The science is not on your side, and neither are actual results. Yet here you are, bragging about 24-bit audio to use up bandwidth and space.

Is this the reason Microsoft felt it was good enough to have hardware good enough for just 2CH PCM via HDMI instead of 8CH for the Elite?

-- "No matter where you go, there you are."

SXRD/Denon/Polk/PS3/360/WiiU
Blu-ray bliss
SXRD Owner's Thread
PSN: Uxi

UxiSXRD is offline  
post #2536 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 04:35 PM
Senior Member
 
javayoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
For paidgeek:

I have a question regarding seamless branching used in Blu-Ray titles like Close Encounters. If two versions of a film share a bit of video with different audio tracks, can a single video encode be shared? I'm trying to wrap my mind around the possibilities. It's been stated that Blu-Ray's bandwidth is a great advantage for these types of titles. Are there others in the works?

Thanks for the stand-up job answering even the "gotcha" questions. You directness and honest candor are greatly appreciated.
javayoda is offline  
post #2537 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 04:38 PM
Senior Member
 
degas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Amir:
As a HDM customer I want uncompressed picture and sound.
Picture I can't have, because of the limitations of today.
Sound I can have, and you tell me that it's unecessary?

Is this the position of Microsoft or HD DVD overall...or just yours?
degas is offline  
post #2538 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 04:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Tobi54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
To insiders:

Some rumors have come up today, that Warner is considering going HD DVD exclusive as we speak, any of you would like to "no comment" on this? :P
Tobi54 is offline  
post #2539 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 04:56 PM
Senior Member
 
trondmm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
paidgeek:

Can you please elaborate on Sony's position on region codes? As a European with a significant number of region 1 DVDs (many of which hasn't been released in Europe), region restrictions is one of my primary reserverations about Blu-ray as a format.

To put it another way: If region restrictions on DVD had been effective, I'm convinced I would have appreciated DVD a lot less than I do today.

Is there any chance Sony can promise to let any US-exclusive releases be region free?

If someone manages to disable region restrictions on BD-players, can/will BD+ be used to reenable the restriction?
trondmm is offline  
post #2540 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 06:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
paidgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://blu-raystats.com/index.php

http://hddvdstats.com/index.php

http://www.emedialive.com/articles/r...leid=11425#ixl

My thanks to the members who have provided the following links for disc statistics, replication info an more.

I cannot verify the accuracy of the information, but these links address many of the recent posted questions (some of which have been deleted)

Sony Pictures BD Insider
paidgeek is offline  
post #2541 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 06:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
paidgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by javayoda View Post

For paidgeek:

I have a question regarding seamless branching used in Blu-Ray titles like Close Encounters. If two versions of a film share a bit of video with different audio tracks, can a single video encode be shared? I'm trying to wrap my mind around the possibilities. It's been stated that Blu-Ray's bandwidth is a great advantage for these types of titles. Are there others in the works?

Thanks for the stand-up job answering even the "gotcha" questions. You directness and honest candor are greatly appreciated.

I am not sure I am following your question. Of course a single video encode can access multiple audio streams and in the case of a title with seamless branching, each branch can have its own set of audio tracks. If you can PM me with more detail about the project you want to layout, I can give more feedback.

Thanks for your question and comments.

Sony Pictures BD Insider
paidgeek is offline  
post #2542 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 06:18 PM
rto
AVS Special Member
 
rto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Shenandoah Valley VA
Posts: 3,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
paidgeek, can you provide a link, or supply any information which would lead us to a body of empirical data relating to current psycho-acoustical models and how they compare to uncompressed PCM as to any audibly perceptible differences?
rto is offline  
post #2543 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 06:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
paidgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by trondmm View Post

paidgeek:

Can you please elaborate on Sony's position on region codes? As a European with a significant number of region 1 DVDs (many of which hasn't been released in Europe), region restrictions is one of my primary reserverations about Blu-ray as a format.

To put it another way: If region restrictions on DVD had been effective, I'm convinced I would have appreciated DVD a lot less than I do today.

Is there any chance Sony can promise to let any US-exclusive releases be region free?

If someone manages to disable region restrictions on BD-players, can/will BD+ be used to reenable the restriction?

Sony chooses to use region coding selectively on North American releases, primarily to protect theatrical windows. This has amounted to a fraction of our Blu-ray releases to date.

We also use region coding when a title has split rights and we don't have for example, Europe. The studios have try to repect each others rights on these types of titles by not region coding for territories we are not suppose to distribute in.

BD+ is not designed to protect region coding. I don't know what measure we will use to keep region coding viable. There is a definite move in recent years towards more worldwide simultaneous release of films, so I expect the use of region coding to be reduced accordingly.

Sony Pictures BD Insider
paidgeek is offline  
post #2544 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 06:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Talkstr8t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Altos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,753
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsHT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

I believe the fact you've seen Fox re-commit to titles and release dates means they're comfortable with the state of BD+.

Bill

Who is this "Bill" of whom you speak?
Quote:


are you officially stating this as fact that the zero releases in the last 6 months by Fox was due to security reasons and BD+?

No, I'm saying that in my opinion I don't think Fox would "turn the spigot back on" without some additional protection beyond what AACS offers. I don't believe the Paramount announcement would be sufficient cause for them to reverse course on this issue.
Quote:


This is something that Fox has still not publicly announced and I wish to finally hear a detailed official reason why exactly they have released zero titles in the last 6 months while making public press announcements advertising the release of 3-4 dozen movies to come out in that same time frame.

If Fox hasn't provided an official response I'm not going to do it for them.

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
Talkstr8t is offline  
post #2545 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 06:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Talkstr8t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Altos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,753
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

...anyone else think this is the worst news yet?

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ack_HD_DVD/884

Hmm, I wonder how much of that $150M Paramount kitty is left after sweetening Bay's contract for Transformers 2 to make his true feelings "go away"?
Quote:


could a BD ad-on for the 360 be made should MS decide to?

Given Amir's claims that they had to wring every last bit of performance out of the Xbox 360 to support HD DVD, the answer would be "no". If you've wrung every last bit of performance how do you support the additional 18Mb/sec of A/V data Blu-ray titles may well require? I suppose you'd have some leftover CPU cycles after giving back some of the CPU required to support HDi relative to BD-J, but it seems unlikely the same cycles used to support HDi can be used to support A/V decode.

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
Talkstr8t is offline  
post #2546 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 06:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
reincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

http://blu-raystats.com/index.php

http://hddvdstats.com/index.php

http://www.emedialive.com/articles/r...leid=11425#ixl

My thanks to the members who have provided the following links for disc statistics, replication info an more.

I cannot verify the accuracy of the information, but these links address many of the recent posted questions (some of which have been deleted)

You answered my question several months ago as to why Sony was truncating the studio master audio tracks to 16 bits. You said that with several languages on the soundtrack, that lack of disc space was an issue. Is is still an issue with lossless compression and BD50 discs?
Or is it because certain players are unable to decode the lossless formats? Please clarify as we consumers want all studios to release at the 24 bit industry standard. The esteemed Bob Meridian did a study and determined that 20+ bits was necessary.
reincarnate is offline  
post #2547 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 07:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Talkstr8t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Altos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,753
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Haghighi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Bell View Post

At this particular point in time, we've been able to supply more features with HDi and HD DVD than with BD-Java and Blu-ray Disc. What we have typically done in practice is that we've created the interactive scenarios in HD DVD and then tried to pull them into Blu-ray. But that has not been entirely possible: Some things we can do in HDi are not supported in BD-Java. If you're going to do BD-Java, you need someone who's capable of programming at a low level. With HDi, you don't need somebody with that additional level of training. We don't need programmers to code our discs.

Talk, since you are the Java expert for BD authoring here, can you comment on Alan Bell's assessment?

Ill-informed. First of all when he says "some things we can do in HDi are not supported in BD-Java he's presumably referring to things which can't be done on BD-Video 1.0 players, like secondary video or network support, neither of which is a BD-J issue. Nothing's been identified which can be done in HDi which can't practically be done in BD-J, given required hardware support. Secondly, his suggestion that developing BD-J content requires programming knowledge is the same fallacy that the HDi crowd is so fond of repeating. BD-J provides many low-level API's and a programming language which a programmer can use to achieve ultimate control and flexibility of the content. If you don't want that level of control or to make use of programming talent there are many ways to author higher-level content, including the same markup and scripting technologies HDi is based on (and in fact there is at least one tool available today which supports both environments). The difference is that HDi doesn't give you that choice; you're stuck with the specification which Microsoft gave you. To use a Lego analogy, HDi gives you houses and buildings and roads and trees. BD-J gives you Lego pieces. If you want to build a city HDi's approach will probably work pretty well; BD-J's approach will take longer if you start from scratch, but you also have the option of using pieces pre-assembled by others and getting the same result in the same amount of time. But then if you want to build an automobile the HDi approach won't work very well; the BD-J approach will. And if someone decides to sell pre-assembled auto parts you could even build that automobile without knowing how to put together individual pieces.

His arguments also ignore the whole other side of the format war, which is recordability. As a studio he may not care about this, but claiming HD DVD is better for consumers is disingenuous, given that BD is unquestionably the better format for recording.

Alan's quote that "A 45GB disc is under development."" also suggests that he's pretty out of touch of the specifics of the technologies, given that the 45GB fantasy was replaced by the 51GB fantasy many months ago. My guess is he had very little involvement with the decision but rather was briefed after the whole affair was done and trotted out to attempt to justify it.

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
Talkstr8t is offline  
post #2548 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 07:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Talkstr8t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Altos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,753
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

I agree completely with the audio, but this is something that can be done, if the studios show the will to do it. All HD DVD players have the ability to decode PCM as well as TrueHD

Which doesn't mean you can get it out of the player (see Xbox 360).

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
Talkstr8t is offline  
post #2549 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 07:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Talkstr8t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Altos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,753
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_N View Post

Don't you need a hard drive for that? As far as I know no standalone HD-DVD player has a hard drive built in so how would I be able to download extra soundtracks and store them?

No, silly, you need a PC with some flavor of Windows supporting the Windows DRM which the extra content will undoubtedly be encoded with! Which should give you some additional background as to why the HD DVD model suits Microsoft's business interests much better.

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
Talkstr8t is offline  
post #2550 of 3651 Old 08-22-2007, 07:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Talkstr8t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Altos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,753
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

...put all of the above together, test it some and you have a dual format player.

Amir, if this reflects your understanding of the complexity of product development than I'm no longer confounded by how some Microsoft products (Bob? Zune? Vista?) made it out the door. This is a gross oversimplification. I will be absolutely shocked if a single combo player is released in the next eighteen months which is considered to be in the top 50% of same-generation single-format players.

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
Talkstr8t is offline  
Closed Thread HDTV Software Media Discussion

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off