Blockbuster Blu-ray announcement: Master Thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

Yeah, I do - my BB was one of the first to be a pilot (check one of my old posts for a thread I made with a bunch of pictures of the store/sections/and info/etc).

...and NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT - this whole situation MAY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN A SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY.

Because from the very start, as far as I can judge, the selection for and promotion of BD discs in the Blockbuster store was somewhat very clearly slanted toward BD over HD DVD - whether Blockbuster intentionally meant to have a bias or not.

First of all, for weeks the HD DVD section was only half the size of the BD section. Then things slowly evened out. But beyond that, what I mean is - both sections in the store (even when they would have the same amount of movies) - the BD side would seem to have all the "most-wanted" titles for the format while the opposite was true for HD DVD. I don't know if Blockbuster headquarters was choosing at random or what but it always ticked me off.

I mean on the BD side you would have Terminator 1, 2, Saw, and X-men: The Last Stand but on HD DVD you would not see it's early "most-wanted" titles like Batman Begins, Goodfellas, the Fast and the Furious Trilogy, or what have you. Rather you'd see more stuff like Full Metal Jacket, The Perfect Storm, and EVEN wierd s*** like HD DVDS first music titles. LIKE THE U2 title! Seriously that was taking up an HD DVD slot at the BB store, while Total Recall had that slot for BD or whatever.

I always remember thinking that if you were a non-enthusiast just casually looking at the situation - that even right there - you would just naturally assume that BD is the better, more supported by Blockbuster/retailers/studios format - even if it were completely not true.

So in conclusion: I have a feeling that the fairness to which Blockbuster applied their test to the 250 stores was never really that equal and that they may have created the test results partially by their own doing of displaying a conscious or unconscious bias for BD all along in-store.

SELF-FULFILLING?

That drought of HD DVD titles earlier in the year probably had something to do with the poor selection of HD DVD titles at your local Blockbuster and for their Blu-ray rentals trouncing their HD DVD rentals. So who's to blame for any perception of bias? I guess content really did matter after all.

I know Blockbuster has not stopped supporting HD DVD. But as mentioned earlier they have a deal with Weinstein that they get Weinstein's titles before anyone else. So I'm also wondering if Blockbuster will lean on them to release BDs. It think it's likely.
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post #302 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kiminozo View Post

I wonder when is the next CES event?

The CEDIA expo is coming up in just about 45 days or so, like on Sept 5th. There was a lot of great HD media announcements there last year (like Batman Begins on HD DVD, etc). Maybe, especially, in light of this recent Blockbuster news - we will now see and hear much more assertive/bold things from companies at that show. Hell, we may even hear enough there to get a picture of how the whole war will play out, even before knowing everything that will go down this Christmas holiday season.
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post #303 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Kiminozo View Post

I wonder when is the next CES event?

January 7-10, 2008 in Vegas.
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post #304 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Chau808 View Post

January 7-10, 2008 in Vegas.

OK, thanks.
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post #305 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

The CEDIA expo is coming up in just about 45 days or so, like on Sept 5th. There was a lot of great HD media announcements there last year (like Batman Begins on HD DVD, etc). Maybe, especially, in light of this recent Blockbuster news - we will now see and hear much more assertive/bold things from companies at that show. Hell, we may even hear enough there to get a picture of how the whole war will play out, even before knowing everything that will go down this Christmas holiday season.

Thanks, I hope HD DVD group has something to combat this latest Blockbuster news.
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post #306 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 12:55 AM
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Huge news for the Blu-ray camp.

Rentals will drive what players people buy.

"Any reviewer that didn't rail against this [Young Guns Blu-ray encode] should be sued, and Lionsgate should be ashamed of themselves. " - msgohan
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post #307 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Urza View Post

For those that live outside of CA, this is yet another "name dropping" dude.

If I had a dime for everytime "names" were mentioned in the Hollywood area, I would be a rich man.

I protest sir !
I take B&W pics too among other things.
Plus, I was giving partial credit where credit was due.

And this is hardly the first time, his name has been "dropped" in relation to this subject on this forum.

I suggest you read the second paragraph and a lower paragraph toward the bottom highlighted with a word in red.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...d#post10166973

Oh, one thing that you will not find in the piece is that when Rich Peterson visited SPE in CALIFORNIA........... is that his wife accompanied him, who in fact was a delight to meet.
I won't "drop" her name.
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post #308 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 12:59 AM
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All of the HD-DVD owners are talking about going over to netflix which i would to if I had an hd-dvd player... but jus think about it, the high def revolution has jus begun most people when they get a hd player will now almost be forced to choose a blu-ray player... net flix wont be making that much money because hd-dvd will only and alwayz have 1 big studio "universal" which wont be enough and the only ppl that it will be pleasing is the early adopters of hd-dvd... i dont see net flix supporting it anymore after a few years at best and im sure most netflix owners that own a ps3 or blu-ray player will want block buster to win to end this format war so they will turn to blockbuster hurting netflix even more.... i see netflix making it exclusive to blu-ray sometime in the near future
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post #309 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Great news for Netflix!

Not so great news once new subsrcibers start renting HD DVD, you will notice that your HD DVDs in your Queue will have much longer wait time.

Netflix is next in line. Believe me!


Blu-ray is the way!
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post #310 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:04 AM
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bee2427, don't know if all that will happen. But, I'm feeling blue'er everyday Seems to be something going around
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post #311 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:06 AM
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I for one am glad to see this. Many of you keep saying you want choice, but choice will just cause HD movies to remain a niche product. Regardless of what side you may be on, we all agree that a single format is best. Hate or love Sony /Toshiba, do we all want this to turn out like DVD Audio/SACD did? If HD-DVd has to die for Blu-Ray to move on as the standard, then a quick death to HD-DVD then. I just want all the movies in one format, and for player prices to drop. still not quite understanding the Sony hate, they are not alone in the BDA, or am I wrong. Sorry to get off topic, its great that I will be able to go locally and rent Blu-ray movies. I use their online service, and taking them back to the store is a great feature that Netflix cannot match. and so far, Amiable-Akuma has had the best post I 've read on this thread so far. Plain and simple, one of these formats must die, or they'll both die. I won't cry for either or, as they are all backed by multinational companies that really only care about my money, and not me. And there are some of us that will continue to watch movies, even when the PS3 finally gets the heavy hitters. To think otherwise is just dumb. Why not get the movies, I 've already got the player.
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post #312 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:08 AM
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I've been waiting to dive into the HiDef waters at a later time but i've been fascinated by the capabilities of both formats. Both have their pros and cons and I won't be bold enough to predict a winner, however there is no positive spin for HD-DVD in this announcement.

For me I would have liked to see all studios/retailers supporting both formats and let the consumer decide, however sadly the decision doesn't seem to be in the hands of the consumer but decided for them. I do think that ultimately other retailers may side with one format and i'm curious if this announcement might cause a snowball effect? It will definitely be interesting to see the HD-DVD's marketing response.

One thing for sure, the dual format players (namely the upcoming Samsung model) definitely raise my interest!
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post #313 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:10 AM
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hallen1007, I couldn't agree with you more. I just want one format, so it can take off. But do we really need to insult people for their opinions?
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post #314 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:13 AM
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I think there are different dimensions to the "choice" question.

1. FORMAT: These two formats are so similar that there is hardly any real choice involved. They have the same codecs and produce very similar (often identical) results. Their history is actually a trail of incorporating features into both formats as feature were proposed throughout their development cycle.

2. CONTENT: The choice I would like to have is in terms of content. There were about 8000 LD titles, there are presently tens of thousands of DVD titles, but only about 300 titles on each of the nextgen formats. We are not going to see deep catalog as long as there is a format war.

Give me one format and the choice of thousands of titles!
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post #315 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:14 AM
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Netflix has been taking market share from BB for years now. BB countered by having the same mail program but offer the option to return or exchange in-store.

They pilot HD & blu-ray on some stores to see if there is demand. Blu-ray dominated by 3 to 1. Now they decide to mass scale implement on over 1400 stores. That is alot of space to carry HD movies on 2 formats. Not to mention carrying format neutral studio titles. That takes up twice the space needed for the same titles and twice the royalties.

I guess the HD-DVD rental turnover did not meet the expectations from blockbuster to mass implement the costly change. They're in business to make money and survive Netflix's onslaught on their business model. A public company have many stockholders and investors to answer to. They must increase profit and find ways to generate growth. I do not see how catering to a losing format in their own tests can help to cut cost and increase revenue. HD owners may not like BB's decision, but their pockets did not help to change the pilot program's outcome.

my 2cents
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post #316 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:18 AM
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absolutely great news for Blu-ray! and Netflix is next!

the Blu juggernaut continues...

Regards,
Joe


Going "over the top" with OTA, Netflix, Drobo FS and Apple TV!
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post #317 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:18 AM
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Couple other thoughts:

1) Does this also mean that, in their large "for sale" sections, Blockbuster stores will ONLY sell new and used BD movies, as well? The 250 trial stores also sold HD DVD/BD movies brand new with clear displays near the front of the store, on easy-to-notice racks to the side of the gaming sections, etc. They weren't selling "used" yet because, of course, there was no over-stock - however if there are a 100+ BD titles going to each of the 1450 BD-only stores - it may eventually create a "used" sales section for certain BD movies, which in turn will attract people due to the lowered media pricing. And these two things may have a significant impact on increasing BD movie sales and BD movie interest in general.

2) How much effort, titles, and promotion will Blockbuster invest in these 1450 stores to go along with this move? THIS will be interesting to see when it happens. Because it could make this news even bigger or it could make it clearly much more insignificant. For example, if Blockbuster only has one small 6 by 6 section of their entire store dedicated to BD media - then you will be shocked at just how quickly people will be content to completely ignore it like it doesn't even exist. HOWEVER, if each of these Blockbuster stores has over 100 titles, with all the new releases streaming in regular, and a ton of in-store promotion, etc - then awareness and interest in BD will go through the roof.

--Food for thought, eh?
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post #318 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSimplePanda View Post

While I have no proof, I do know that cutting the unit cost from $499 to $299 and even lower can't be good for their margins.

Maybe they're not losing money, but unless they were gouging everyone for 100% mark-up before the price cuts (can't see this given the situation), they have massively cut into their profit margins to offer these rebates.

What does this have to do with the format war? Nothing - but Toshiba is around 1/2 the size of Sony and if they're not seeing a lot of profit from HD-DVD player sales they have less resources to work with as far as marketing HD-DVD.

so if you can speculate so can I trust what others are saying about sony losing about $200 per console and their even thinking of cutting hte price by another $200 from what rumors ive read. jesus thats $400 lost i can buy me 2 hd dvd players with that money lol
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post #319 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

Couple other thoughts:

1) Does this also mean that, in their large "for sale" sections, Blockbuster stores will ONLY sell new and used BD movies, as well? The 250 trial stores also sold HD DVD/BD movies brand new with clear displays near the front of the store, on easy-to-notice racks to the side of the gaming sections, etc. They weren't selling "used" yet because, of course, there was no over-stock - however if there are a 100+ BD titles going to each of the 1450 BD-only stores - it may eventually create a "used" sales section for certain BD movies, which in turn will attract people due to the lowered media pricing. And these two things may have a significant impact on increasing BD movie sales and BD movie interest in general.

2) How much effort, titles, and promotion will Blockbuster invest in these 1450 stores to go along with this move? THIS will be interesting to see when it happens. Because it could make this news even bigger or it could make it clearly much more insignificant. For example, if Blockbuster only has one small 6 by 6 section of their entire store dedicated to BD media - then you will be shocked at just how quickly people will be content to completely ignore it like it doesn't even exist. HOWEVER, if each of these Blockbuster stores has over 100 titles, with all the new releases streaming in regular, and a ton of in-store promotion, etc - then awareness and interest in BD will go through the roof.

--Food for thought, eh?

wow someone who is actually speaking with a mind for once
I really think you hit it on the nail. Toshiba needs to come up with something quick or this can be a death blow or it can be a mosquito bite, only time will tell.
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post #320 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Iggster View Post

wow someone who is actually speaking with a mind for once
I really think you hit it on the nail. Toshiba needs to come up with something quick or this can be a death blow or it can be a mosquito bite, only time will tell.

^^^ I'd just like to briefly say thanks to you and the others who have mentioned my name/posts in previous replies. This news is so wild, it is sparking a lot of terrific debate. I've read so many great posts since the story break, I want to compliment many of you - but I'll just have to say thanks and be sure to keep it up!

This war sure is entertaining...that's for certain...
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post #321 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:30 AM
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Quote:


Orignally Posted by Amiable-Akuma
The CEDIA expo is coming up in just about 45 days or so, like on Sept 5th.

More importantly, the Home Media Expo (Formally the VSDA) will be held July 17 to July 19th. It's possible that some studios will make some major 4th Q announcements then.

fitprod
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post #322 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:32 AM
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^^^Wow, I didn't even know/realize this. Thanks for the info, very cool. BTW, I want to say that I've enjoyed reading some other great posts from you as well lately.
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post #323 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSimplePanda View Post

Ironically, MS may make more money from Blu-ray than they do HD-DVD - they get royalties for VC-1 usage on both formats and given how many more Blu-ray discs get sold than HD-DVD.

Yeah, and maybe if the war was over with Sony the winner - Sony would be so relieved that they would finally loosen their claws a little to allow VC-1 to become the de facto, best-loved codec standard. We could then see them, other studios using it on the BD format much more often to greater effect. Wishful thinking perhaps, but I'm starting to dream dammnit...
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post #324 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TheSimplePanda View Post

Ironically, MS may make more money from Blu-ray than they do HD-DVD - they get royalties for VC-1 usage on both formats and given how many more Blu-ray discs get sold than HD-DVD.

They only problem with that is Warner is the only studio using VC-1 consistently on Blu-Ray. Disney and Sony have been mainly using AVC.
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post #325 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:52 AM
 
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"The HD DVD Promotional Group called Blockbuster's decision "shortsighted," and attributed Blu-ray's performance at Blockbuster to that format's stronger release slate in the first three months of 2007. "I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the group."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...00+_Stores/707
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post #326 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Django View Post

"The HD DVD Promotional Group called Blockbuster's decision "shortsighted," and attributed Blu-ray's performance at Blockbuster to that format's stronger release slate in the first three months of 2007. "I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the group."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...00+_Stores/707

70% is 70%...
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post #327 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by DSET View Post

really?
New line is LOTR right?
arent they Mutual
cant they sign an exclusive with Time Warner to get LOTR on HDDVD
or something along thoose lines?

and isnt dreamworks HDDVD only?
no? gladiator\\Shrek etc??

no?

"anyone for Tennis?"

Only one major studio exclusively supports HD DVD. That studio is Universal.

Warner have been helping out by giving HD DVD The Matrix and Batman Begins - ahead of their eventual Blu-ray releases - but Warner is officially a dual format supporter.
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post #328 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 02:03 AM
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darinp2 mentioned something interesting in another thread as well: the weight of this news itself (whether the event itself turns out to be effective or not) may just cause a huge "word-of-month" increase for the BD products over HD DVD.

Think about it: Even if you're an HD DVD enthusiast - would you still recommend to your parents and friends to buy a player with this news sinking in? I believe even the most pro-HD DVD person will now begin to feel guilty to promote the buying of players to others all willy-nilly.

What you'll probably do if someone asks is the opposite. You'll actually recommend BD and site this news as one of many reasons BD is a good choice to go with (besides capacity, studio support, PS3 inclusion, etc).

Think about how salespeople will use the news. This is an Associated Press article - every paper and news show will pick it up to officiallly chime its song. Best Buy sales people, etc who are already pushing BD players over HD due their higher profit margins will use this piece of info to convince potential buyers along with their other "nuggets" of wisdom (like BD is the only one that can "do true 1080p HD" and all the other crap they say to make a sale).
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post #329 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fozziwig View Post

Only one major studio exclusively supports HD DVD. That studio is Universal.

Warner have been helping out by giving HD DVD The Matrix and Batman Begins - ahead of their eventual Blu-ray releases - but Warner is officially a dual format supporter.

do you have release dates for matrix,v for vendetta? charlie?batman begins? and a handful of other warner titles?

what about fox and disney future release dates?

what does that leave for blu ray?
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post #330 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Django View Post

"The HD DVD Promotional Group called Blockbuster's decision "shortsighted," and attributed Blu-ray's performance at Blockbuster to that format's stronger release slate in the first three months of 2007. "I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the group."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...00+_Stores/707

One other thing I have to say about this. The HD DVD Promotional Group and Ken Graffeo personally taking the time to immediately comment on this news story as it breaks - just goes to show you how serious and real this s*** is. Makes me think that any hopes that Blockbuster will change its mind or won't be very serious in going forward with their plans are likely to be 100% false.

I mean we can assume that the HD DVD promo group has more insider information then we do, that they likely had their own behind-doors discussion with Blockbuster before the decision was made (as evidenced by the quickness in the HD groups putting out a rebuttal) - and yet here's the situation, the s*** has hit the fan and the HD DVD camp is scrambling to dealing with a very serious threat.

Seriously - I've never seen the HD DVD group even directly respond in the press to anything that happens for the BD camp AT ALL - much less immediately make a comment in such a defeated way the second the story breaks.

I mean, it sounds like damage control from an injured animal. Prior to now, HD DVD was lean and mean issuing their own press releases independently as if they owned the world. Now what?
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