Blockbuster Blu-ray announcement: Master Thread - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

So what do you think of Universal? They have to be the biggest idiots to support the 35-40% and totally ignore the other format, right?

They are a key player in the "game", just as there are key players on the other side also. No surprises there.

But Blockbuster is supposed to be a neutral party who's main concern is the needs of their customers. This decision clearly shows they have turned their back on many customers...
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post #512 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

They are a key player in the "game", just as there are key players on the other side also. No surprises there.

But Blockbuster is supposed to be a neutral party who's main concern is the needs of their customers. This decision clearly shows they have turned their back on many customers...

They turned their back on .3% of customers in order to grow the .7%.

It's universal that's being the pain and not releasing BD's already.

It's a stupid 'game' to play anyway. Lets get this done already. Why the emotional investment in hddvd? If this was hd dvd I might be upset, all things considered now. Had hd dvd had higher capacity and was selling more and then got this shaft, I'd be pissed.

Right now though, it's perfectly logical.
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post #513 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

You must be kidding. These are two entirely different issues.

Optical media is on it's last legs, but which one wins the war, if anyone, remains to be seen.

HD downloads, on the other hand, are inevitable.

Would you care to revise your post, then? Your statement was a blanket statement which did not specifically comply itself to only the format war. Here are two suggestions for revised statements (bold my addition):

1) It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds in the format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong.

2) It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds assuming you are not a moderator. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong unless you are a moderator.

Do you have a preference? Just trying to understand forum rule.
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post #514 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

I mentioned the Matrix since that is the only week where the ratio went beyond 2:1. Other than that the ratios were closer to 1.5:1. So that is a clear improvement of what we saw in Q1 of this year. We are NOT seeing BD eat away at HD DVD market share as many predicted....it appears to have stabilized.

And yes, the Matrix is too expensive for a catalog box set where bundling hurt the unit sales, but helped revenue...

Plazman, what does this post of yours have to do with supporting RD's position that HD DVD 'continues to gain ground' on content sales? You're trying to give an answer to a question I never asked. In fact, let's just agree that it has stabilized, and that contrary to your intent to aid RD in his position, you nevertheless concede implicitly that indeed, there is little headway being made by HD DVD media sales at the moment.
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post #515 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

What percentage of Blockbuster's customers do you think rent VHS tapes versus DVD? And yet they still rent VHS tapes...

Ah but there was a time when 90%+ of Blockbusters customers rented VHS, and the entire store was VHS, less a small section for LD and Games. Not to mention that there are VHS releases that still have not made it to DVD. Compared to the roughly 1/3 of 1% that make up the HD-DVD market, I imagine that that VHS>HD-DVD in terms of B&M rentals. Of course if you have the official numbers you may share them.

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post #516 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ilka View Post

I hope this announcement from Blockbuster causes a cascade of similar announcements from others. Anything that will end this silly format war sooner rather than later is a good thing.

I'll be renting blu-ray disks from BB once they have them available.

?? they already have been renting them..

BTW - If I was a Blockbuster competitor, it would make a lot of sense to create a competitive advantage by supporting HD DVD and Bluray, both...

BTW2 - if BB was given a financial incentive for this, then that would likely fall foul of anti-competition and anti-consumer laws....
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post #517 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

I asked you a simple question. Do you support Universal being exclusive when the majority of the market is going Blu-ray?

OK. I have said this many many times. ALL content provicers should be neutral. So, yes. Universal should be neutral as well.

As for the majority going Blu Ray - the simple fact is that the same title on both formats in the last couple of months sell almost the same in both formats, so the contention that BD has bigger market for any title is just false. Studios are probably leaving 40-50% in $$ terms by being format exclusive. However, the excuse for them is that the markets for both formats are too small to matter. But if we see growth at some point studios will have to go neutral...

What will matter is how much $$$$ studios can make from these formats. Not how many units are sold. Although both may be related, they are not the same.
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post #518 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

?? they already have been renting them..

BTW - If I was a Blockbuster competitor, it would make a lot of sense to create a competitive advantage by supporting HD DVD and Bluray, both...

Again, why both? What advantage is there to keeping the format war going on?
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post #519 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

OK. I have said this many many times. ALL content provicers should be neutral. So, yes. Universal should be neutral as well.

As for the majority going Blu Ray - the simple fact is that the same title on both formats in the last couple of months sell almost the same in both formats, so the contention that BD has bigger market for any title is just false. Studios are probably leaving 40-50% in $$ terms by being format exclusive. However, the excuse for them is that the markets for both formats are too small to matter. But if we see growth at some point studios will have to go neutral...

What will matter is how much $$$$ studios can make from these formats. Not how many units are sold. Although both may be related, they are not the same.

Problem is, it's a lot easier for Universal to just go BD than for everyone else to switch over to the lower selling format.
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post #520 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I use that Blockbuster ALL the time, and there are the same space for each format.

Or should I say, USED TO use...

The shelf space comment was for Best Buy.. Both are BB's so this can get confusing


LOL@ the "used to use" comment. All this is just fun to watch and be a part of regardless of what happens. Both you and I are just average citizens who have a preference over one format over the other even though we may have a million other things in common.. I wouldn't be surprised If we know each other by face and have met at Don Carter's before it got destroyed or played in the same bowling league there..lol... I am glad I joined this forum when I did and have learned a lot about a variety of things that have to do with audio and video.. It is fun reading the comments from everyone and the usual plazman pro-HD-DVD comments that spin the issue to HD-DVD 's favor every time no matter what happens..
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post #521 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Jiffylush View Post

I am very suprised by this announcement, did anyone here see this coming? It never even crossed my mind.

I just hopes this means my local stores are going to carry BD movies, if they do I will probably go back having only Blockbuster instead of using both Blockbuster and Netflix.

I didn't see HD DVD not being carried. I knew Blu-ray would be carried in store because I've been bugging my store for 6 months now. Everytime I'd return a Blu-ray in-store and pick up a DVD, I'd ask if they got any news about carrying Blu-ray in their store. That way when I return my online Blu-ray in-store, I can pick up a instant Blu-ray to take home while they send the next BD in my queue. They kept telling me that they will be carrying Blu-ray, but haven't heard any timelines. So, needless to say, I'm very happy about the news.

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post #522 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Would you care to revise your post, then? Your statement was a blanket statement which did not specifically comply itself to only the format war. Here are two suggestions for revised statements (bold my addition):

1) It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds in the format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong.

2) It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds assuming you are not a moderator. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong unless you are a moderator.

Do you have a preference?

I concur. When someone says "the future" I would like a timetable. Does the future mean 100 years from now, or five. Because if its five, I can guarantee that downloads will still be a small percentage of all movies watched. In a hundred years, I'd say downloads are inevitable.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #523 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PC World article View Post

...amid fears that some consumers will end up with an obsolete player.

...like the sub-spec and yet-to-be-replaced BD 1.0 players still being sold?....
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post #524 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Would you care to revise your post, then? Your statement was a blanket statement which did not specifically comply itself to only the format war.

Nope, because you didn't pay close enough attention to what I said.

I did not make a blanket statement about knowing what the future holds. In some cases, it is possible to know what the future holds.

I specifically said:

Quote:
It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong.


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post #525 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

...like the sub-spec and yet-to-be-replaced BD 1.0 players still being sold?....

Again, these players will never be obsolete. They will always play Blu-ray movies.
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post #526 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I concur. When someone says "the future" I would like a timetable. Does the future mean 100 years from now, or five. Because if its five, I can guarantee that downloads will still be a small percentage of all movies watched. In a hundred years, I'd say downloads are inevitable.

By 2030 I bet everything is downloaded. And by 100, I bet there's a teleportation scheme.

Heck, by 2040 or so we'll be into the technological singularity area where it'll be impossible to predict.

I think by 2025 or so, downloads will be the dominating scheme. For the next 15 years or so, physical media will have the advantage. IMO.
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post #527 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

The market share for disk sales seems to have stabilized lately at 35-40% of the overall HD market for HD DVD. So not wanting 40% of the market seems kind of strange...

In the end this will hurt Blockbuster since people will take their business elsewhere. DVD adoption wasn't hurt by Blockbuster sticking with VHS. Poor management, poor decisions. It isn't about BD being ahead of HD DVD, it's about shutting out customers - no business would want to lose 30% of their customers. Simple as that!

Plazman, you got to be kidding yourself: a few HD-DVD enthusiasts that you "predict" will be taking their business away from BB, even if true, would not make even a blip on BB's radar. You can stay in denial mode, but no matter how the facts are spinned, the writing has been on the wall for a long time now.
I for one, do not see this move by BB as a death blow to HD-DVD, but in combination with other aspects it might as well become in the near future. There is no point in denying the momentum Blu-Ray has currently in the industry.
And to those BB haters out there: BB has been offering great service, Their online service is in my opinion superior to other similar services (and yes, i was using NetFlix before as well). Once you take your hatred glasses off your eyes, you will see this on your own. Enough of hatred already, just get out of the box you were sitting for a long while.

In Blu-Ray Veritas!
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post #528 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:51 AM
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That's not true, the 360 has outsold the ps3's first 6 months of being released. If you have a link I would like to see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSimplePanda View Post

I think if you really were looking at the numbers that matter, you'd know that:

- 360 has a year lead time.
- 360 has an established game library with some key system sellers (eg. Gears of War)
- PS3 outsold 360's launch cycle.
- PS3 has an added bonus of non-gamers buying it for Blu-ray playback ootb.
- 360 has been on a plateau of around 10M units for some time now.

Add to this that the 360 sold, what, 6000 units in Japan last month? Japan alone will catch the PS3 up to the 360 inside the next 12 months.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 360, but I can't see it breaking beyond the hard-core market (much like the original Xbox). As the Japanese often say, "Xbox is good, if you want to play shooters." Not exactly true, but it cuts to the issue that Microsoft will face over the next couple years.

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post #529 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TheSimplePanda View Post

I think if you really were looking at the numbers that matter, you'd know that:

- 360 has a year lead time.
- 360 has an established game library with some key system sellers (eg. Gears of War)
- PS3 outsold 360's launch cycle.
- PS3 has an added bonus of non-gamers buying it for Blu-ray playback ootb.
- 360 has been on a plateau of around 10M units for some time now.

Add to this that the 360 sold, what, 6000 units in Japan last month? Japan alone will catch the PS3 up to the 360 inside the next 12 months.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 360, but I can't see it breaking beyond the hard-core market (much like the original Xbox). As the Japanese often say, "Xbox is good, if you want to play shooters." Not exactly true, but it cuts to the issue that Microsoft will face over the next couple years.

also, remember ps2 still has the largest user base by far and those are more likely to buy a ps3. ps3 market share won't match ps2's but it will still dominate the overall market.
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post #530 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:52 AM
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(Let's not turn this into a console discussion)
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post #531 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

(Let's not turn this into a console discussion)

Can't agree more.
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post #532 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

By 2030 I bet everything is downloaded. And by 100, I bet there's a teleportation scheme.

Heck, by 2040 or so we'll be into the technological singularity area where it'll be impossible to predict.

I think by 2025 or so, downloads will be the dominating scheme. For the next 15 years or so, physical media will have the advantage. IMO.

Well here is what the experts in the field of downloads are saying about the industry and timeframes:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6452274.html
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post #533 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:53 AM
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Some VERY interesting predictions linked here. Basically now predicting the demise of HD-DVD. "Blockbuster's decision to favor Blu-ray is the beginning of the end."


http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluhddvd061807.htm
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post #534 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Again, these players will never be obsolete. They will always play Blu-ray movies.

But what about pip ? Oh nooooos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

I think by 2025 or so, downloads will be the dominating scheme. For the next 15 years or so, physical media will have the advantage. IMO.

When it is common for every household to have the fastest connection at the time, maybe 50 mbps pipes and hundreds of terabytes of storage is also cheap and common, then perhaps yes. But still I wouldn't want to be some of those people that lose their entire movie collection because of corrupt hard drives !!!
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post #535 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJschmitt View Post

Actual Blockbuster Press release link below;

http://www.b2i.us/profiles/investor/...&Category=1027

Please do a service to other members next time and actually look through the thread as this PR release has been poted several times already in this thread thanks.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=10&pp=30

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10812714

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=11&pp=30
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post #536 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donricouga View Post

When it is common for every household to have the fastest connection at the time, maybe 50 mbps pipes and hundreds of terabytes of storage is also cheap and common, then perhaps yes. But still I wouldn't want to be some of those people that lose their entire movie collection because of corrupt hard drives !!!

I'm very dubious of downloading indeed. Maybe if you can download 50 gigs in a few hours and burn it to some *ALWAYS PLAYABLE* owned disc for a good price, ok.

Then again, in a few years BD media will be near free anyway. $5 bin stuff.
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post #537 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans View Post

LOL@ the "used to use" comment. All this is just fun to watch and be a part of regardless of what happens. Both you and I are just average citizens who have a preference over one format over the other even though we may have a million other things in common.. I wouldn't be surprised If we know each other by face and have met at Don Carter's before it got destroyed or played in the same bowling league there..lol...

Heh! My girlfirend and I nearly missed a tournament due to being "unexpectedly detained" in the parking lot at Don Carter's, but we were rudely interrupted by a "flashlight patrolman"

Quote:


I am glad I joined this forum when I did and have learned a lot about a variety of things that have to do with audio and video.. It is fun reading the comments from everyone and the usual plazman pro-HD-DVD comments that spin the issue to HD-DVD 's favor every time no matter what happens..

Yes, I've loved this forum also, and joined before the formats launched. But, in my view, I think the main point in this thread is that HD DVD is doing very well in the big picture, and this BB decision was very premature. I think it looks very much like the decision was unduly affected by commercial incentives, and thus is not as meaningful as it would otherwise appear.
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post #538 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:57 AM
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This just made the news on TV in Chicago....
Reporting Blockbuster only supporting BD cause it has 70% of the market.

This is going to push alot of normal folks to go BD.
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post #539 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Nope, because you didn't pay close enough attention to what I said.

I did not make a blanket statement about knowing what the future holds. In some cases, it is possible to know what the future holds.

I specifically said:

What is the difference? You are making a future prediction as fact on the Download vs. Optical war, which doesn't even exist yet, but others can't make future predictions as fact on the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD war which is happening as we speak? It seems to me that a prediction made about that HD war would be much more valid as the data is real versus something that hasn't even begun.
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post #540 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus1099 View Post

This just made the news on TV in Chicago....
Reporting Blockbuster only supporting BD cause it has 70% of the market.

This is going to push alot of normal folks to go BD.

If Universal had any political/business sense, they'd announce neutrality today.
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