Blockbuster Blu-ray announcement: Master Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Again, these players will never be obsolete. They will always play Blu-ray movies.

I will never buy one of those first gen Blu-Ray players, even for $100. . However the PS3 is a first gen player in my opinion and is better than anything HD-DVD offers (besides the $1000 PC drives found in high-end PC's) , Even the fast HD-DVD add-on drive for the 360 is not as fast a player as the PS3 when it comes to load time and being able to skip chapters. It becomes clear when playing Liar's Dice on the POTC DMC disc that you really need a fast computer chip to handle the java based menu's and games while at the same time being able to stream 1080p HD. However when it comes to playing movie's, those first gen players do work and should not be discounted as players themselves. If it weren't for the PS3, I would not have gottn into Blu-Ray this early..It is that simple...However the lack of HD-DVD titles after Christmas really would have probably been enough to get me over the edge in that case if the Ps3 did not exist and I had not gotten it earlier..
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post #542 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Again, these players will never be obsolete. They will always play Blu-ray movies.

They will indeed be obsolete, as they will never be able to play all the content of the future discs - which will have PiP and 1.1 content on them.
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post #543 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Plazman, what does this post of yours have to do with supporting RD's position that HD DVD 'continues to gain ground' on content sales? You're trying to give an answer to a question I never asked. In fact, let's just agree that it has stabilized, and that contrary to your intent to aid RD in his position, you nevertheless concede implicitly that indeed, there is little headway being made by HD DVD media sales at the moment.

Ah! Your problem is much more basic

1. You understand the concept of market share? It basically says of the total HD market what % is controlled by BD v. HD DVD. Simple right?

2. Now when looking at market share, you can look at historical data such as SI or current data (what is happening right now and if there is a trend). Business decisions are based on current and future market share. History is history. It is irrelevant to the decision making process. Now, why is that?

3. It's because when a studio sells a product what they want to know is what is their potential market size for this product and the size of the market size they are missing (what am I leaving on the table). So, you can see that market share quickly translates into how much $ can I make and how much $ I could make...

4. In Q1 we had a trend where week after week BD's market share continued to increase v. HD DVD which continued to fall. The question at this point was to find out at what % we would end up with an equilibrium. For example, Mac ended up with a 5% or so market share and they have kept that share since them. So, 5% would be their equilibrium share in the PC OS market.

5. At the end of Q1 it was widely reported that BD was enjoying a 4:1 to 2:1 sales ratio advantage. However, since then we have seen a turnaround. We now have a sales ratio that is between 1.5 and 2.0:1. The only week where the ratio went byond 2:1 there were extraordinary circumstances as explained by me. So, the fact is that HD DVD has gained on BD since we went from 4:1 to 2:1 sales ratio to 1.5 to 2:1. And finally...

6. So far we have only talked about one part of the equation, how much money can I make by supporting one format. The second part is, how much money am I leaving on the table. For this, the only true data point is sales of the same title on both formats. So, if we look at Warner and Paramount we can figure out what the ratio in terms of $ terms is for a title that gets released on both formats. For this we know that all neutral titles sold since the end of March have sold about the same for both formats. So, studios by being exclusive are leaving 40-50% of the HD revenue on the table. Does this make sense?

7. As long as the $$ value is small, studios won't care, but once it gets large, they cannot ignore it...

Now what about Blockbuster?

Doesn't it seem odd that Blockbuster would leave between 30-40% of the HD market on the table - basically lose these customers to their competitors. When Blockbuster desperately needs to do better and gain customers?

The question is not whether BD is ahead of HD DVD or whatever, it's whether it makes sense for Blockbuster to take sides? To me Blockbuster reeks of poor management decisions and if a reason is needed for why they are struggling - it is right there!
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post #544 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:59 AM
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I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

Sony Pictures BD Insider
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post #545 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheSimplePanda View Post

The same Microsoft who publicly said "HD-DVD is an unproven technology - we don't want to sell you the next beta" just a few months ago when asked if they would build a drive into a revised 360?

Or the same Microsoft who 6 months ago said "we could offer a Blu-ray add-on for the 360 if the market demanded it", even if they retracted that?

The same MSFT that's about to make Sony's worst nightmares come true
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post #546 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

If you want to let Blockbuster know how you feel about all this go here http://www.blockbuster.com/help/contactUs

I already told them what I think. Now I'm off to sign up with Netflix.

Done & Done

This announcement is for 1,700 stores. How many of Blockbusters 5,800 stores are independent franchise locations and what will they do?
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post #547 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

They will indeed be obsolete, as they will never be able to play all the content of the future discs - which will have PiP and 1.1 content on them.

Your point? The main purpose for this medium is to deliver high definition movies to the home - which these players will always be able to do. Extras are just that, extras.
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post #548 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

You mean no more xbox add on drive? I believe they only sell the PS3 and xbox drive for now....
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post #549 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

Any date for that announcement?
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post #550 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSimplePanda View Post

The same Microsoft who publicly said "HD-DVD is an unproven technology - we don't want to sell you the next beta" just a few months ago when asked if they would build a drive into a revised 360?

Or the same Microsoft who 6 months ago said "we could offer a Blu-ray add-on for the 360 if the market demanded it", even if they retracted that?

Microsofts biggest mistake was not including an HD-DVD drive in the 360 when they had the chance.. Look at Halo 3 now, it will be on two discs and all future titles that want to look as good will also span multiple discs.. Microsoft see's how the PS3 has affected this format war. They should have looked at History and how the PS2 made an impact on SD-DVD early adoption...It is clear that HD-DVD would not be in this position they are in had the HD-DVD drive been included in the original X-Box 360. And they would have over a two year lead to market vs Sony... The format war at that time could have been over before it begun for SOny...Especially considering how terrible their initial launch titles were. House of Flying daggers and The Fifth Element..YUCK, they would have been ridiculed out of the gate in a much stronger fashion had the adoption rate for HD-DVD been much stronger than it was due to HD-DVD being included in the 360...
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post #551 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

OMG YES!!!!!!!!!!
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post #552 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post

Microsofts biggest mistake was not including an HD-DVD drive in the 360 when they had the chance.. Look at Halo 3 now, it will be on two discs and all future titles that want to look as good will also span multiple discs.. Microsoft see's how the PS3 has affected this format war. They should have looked at History and how the PS2 made an impact on SD-DVD early adoption...It is clear that HD-DVD would not be in this position they are in had the HD-DVD drive been included in the original X-Box 360. And they would have over a two year lead to market vs Sony... The format war at that time could have been over before it begun for SOny...

They blew it on hddvd and hdmi.

Really bad on both on their launches. They should've done what it takes, but oh well.
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post #553 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

...

You've got to be kidding me. If you can't see for yourself why shelf-space and inventory dedication to HD DVD in an additional ~1500 B&M stores at the relative rental rates enjoyed vis a vis Blu-ray would be a financial boondoggle, then time to go back to business school Plaz. Yes, it is time to make sound financial decisions over at Blockbuster - and as far as next-gen formats went, that has taken the form of not doubling up on inventory and shelf-space in order to keep the higher margin product; this allows a foothold on the HD market while at the same time not stealing valuable space away from bread-winner SD DVD.
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post #554 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

I'm very dubious of downloading indeed. Maybe if you can download 50 gigs in a few hours and burn it to some *ALWAYS PLAYABLE* owned disc for a good price, ok.

Then again, in a few years BD media will be near free anyway. $5 bin stuff.

The thing is routers are super common in households.
We got dad watching a movie over the internet, little billy playing starcraft upstairs, we got little jessica surfing myspace and having all sorts of streaming videos pop-up etc... Plus, this implies that most people will have computers powerful enough to play full HD content with lossless audio from their computers. You know people mess up their computers somehow, this is always going to be a problem.

Back on topic. Lets all go to blockbuster and rent some blu-ray movies !!!
My blockbuster just got in about 5 new blu-rays this past week
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post #555 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

You've got to be kidding me. If you can't see for yourself why shelf-space and inventory dedication to HD DVD in an additional ~1500 B&M stores at the relative rental rates enjoyed vis a vis Blu-ray would be a financial boondoggle, then time to go back to business school Plaz. Yes, it is time to make sound financial decisions over at Blockbuster - and as far as next-gen formats went, that has taken the form of not doubling up on inventory and shelf-space to keep the higher margin product.

If you followed plazman's logic, they'd still stock Hi-8 and Beta tapes and LD's as well.
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post #556 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

They blew it on hddvd and hdmi.

Really bad on both on their launches. They should've done what it takes, but oh well.


And now a confirmation from Paidgeek that Target will go Blu-Ray exclusive...OMG the Domino effect is occuring quickly...
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post #557 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Your point? The main purpose for this medium is to deliver high definition movies to the home - which these players will always be able to do. Extras are just that, extras.

Keep in mind that it's the lack of space for these same "extras" that resulted in non stop HD DVD bashing by the very same format fanbois that are now filling up this thread.

So lets just say what goes around comes around when it comes to whether a format delivers on all of the hype.

In any event, do we have confirmation on this Target going BD exclusive thing or is it just a total fabricated rumor?

<-- Still amazed retailers are "calling it" on this when there are such small sales numbers over the past year.
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post #558 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:08 AM
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glad I"m on netflix
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post #559 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post

Microsofts biggest mistake was not including an HD-DVD drive in the 360 when they had the chance.. Look at Halo 3 now, it will be on two discs and all future titles that want to look as good will also span multiple discs.. Microsoft see's how the PS3 has affected this format war. They should have looked at History and how the PS2 made an impact on SD-DVD early adoption...It is clear that HD-DVD would not be in this position they are in had the HD-DVD drive been included in the original X-Box 360. And they would have over a two year lead to market vs Sony... The format war at that time could have been over before it begun for SOny...Especially considering how terrible their initial launch titles were. House of Flying daggers and The Fifth Element..YUCK, they would have been ridiculed out of the gate in a much stronger fashion had the adoption rate for HD-DVD been much stronger than it was due to HD-DVD being included in the 360...

By not including an HD DVD drive, MS was able to beat the PS3 to market by about a year and under cut them in price by about $100. Consequently, it's outselling the PS3 by a fair margin.
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post #560 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:11 AM
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Ken from universal sitting at the table with the stock holders, discussing the bluray blockbuster announchment.

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/Images/...l/liarliar.jpg

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post #561 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

If you followed plazman's logic, they'd still stock Hi-8 and Beta tapes and LD's as well.

I don't know about the rental market for these products. But Blockbuster still carries VHS. A market that is rapidly shrinking...

You do not get out of a growing market, or one where one format has 40% share and the other 60%.....unlike Disney and Fox who care about DRM, Blockbuster has no horse in the race.
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post #562 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:11 AM
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Nope, not good enough. I don't see the fat lady going on stage.

Until Rolling Stone Magazine says its over, the fat lady is still at home going through her piggy bank hunting for loose coins to pay for bus-fare to the opera house.
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post #563 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by skogan View Post

By not including an HD DVD drive, MS was able to beat the PS3 to market by about a year and under cut them in price by about $100. Consequently, it's outselling the PS3 by a fair margin.

Won the battle, but gonna probably lose the war.
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post #564 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

I don't know about the rental market for these products. But Blockbuster still carries VHS. A market that is rapidly shrinking...

You do not get out of a growing market, or one where one format has 40% share and the other 60%.....unlike Disney and Fox who care about DRM, Blockbuster has no horse in the race.

They have a horse in the race now..
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post #565 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

But Blockbuster still carries VHS.

Well, none of the ones near me.
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post #566 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

If you followed plazman's logic, they'd still stock Hi-8 and Beta tapes and LD's as well.

Yet we still have macs and PC's, ipods and mp3 players, widescreen and fullscreen DVD's, (heck, BB still sells umd's). Imagine the burden these poor B&M stores are under stocking different formats.
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post #567 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

They have a horse in the race now..

No they don't. They gain zero competitive advantage over any of their rivals by doing this. They gain nothing whether BD wins or loses for them....A car rental company does not care whether Ford or GM sells more cars. They just rent cars.....same story here.
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post #568 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

If true, that is impressive. People that want this format war to drag on are asking for HD to never replace SD in the home buying market.

Frankly, I'll be pissed if all you can buy is SD DVD movies when I can watch junk on HBO HD at such a better resolution.

At this point, the hddvd supporters are getting close to be traitors when it comes to the home HD market. I'm not sure why they do it.. $? emotional investment? Stubborness?

An emotional investment for some I would imagine. If this COUP D'ETAT continues, it would appear that those still fighting on the HD-DVD side will look like they are fighting against massive High Def adoption.. Some people who have HDDVD branded in their names and have their sig's filled with HD-DVD fanboy links will without a doubt continue the fight. However at this point it is still early for this format war and it is not over even though this is as close as it has ever gotten so far... BY Christmas if this Domino effect continues, we shall have a clear winner since all that shopping at Blu-Ray only retailers will have a massive impact against HD-DVD adoption..
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post #569 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

Won the battle, but gonna probably lose the war.

If what you are interested in primarily is the next gen DVD, then yes. But if you're interested in the next gen gaming system, then it was smart to keep the HD DVD drive out.

Sony and MS had different priorities, and that's why both did the right thing for their companies.
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post #570 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by skogan View Post

By not including an HD DVD drive, MS was able to beat the PS3 to market by about a year and under cut them in price by about $100. Consequently, it's outselling the PS3 by a fair margin.

Yes, it helped the 360 as a gaming machine, I agree.. However it hurt them in the long run with adopting HD-DVD as SD-DVD's successor...
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