Blockbuster Blu-ray announcement: Master Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TriptonUpman View Post

people often accuse me of being a blu-ray fanboy, but honestly all i was trying to do was save people who were sinking money into hd-dvd from losing their investment. its frustrating though, trying to get the point across. some people just don't want to see what should be obvious, and that is that hd-dvd was doomed from the start.

Oh how kind of you, you were trying to help the poor HDDVD owners? silly me

I'd love to get my hands on a Blu Monster's Ball.-LilStinky

Refering to a possible release of said movie on BD LOL
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post #1082 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by skogan View Post

You are correct, 1% of the consumers have spoken! Blu-ray is the overwhelming prefernce... well they have 67% of that 1% anyway. Of course, the other 99% don't want Blu-ray or HD DVD at these prices.

I'm not really sure what you think is going to happen. Do you think we're going to throw away our HD DVD players because you want us to cut our losses? Do you expect us to stop getting movies for HD DVD because you don't like that format?

In other words, just what the hell is the point of so many BD supporters asking HD DVD supporters to give in? What realistically do you want us to do - because if it's what I think it is I'm going to laugh at you...

For one, stop delaying the envitiable and accept that Blu ray is the format of choice. I didn't suggest for you to throw away the players, you can still use them, but it seems that the HD-DVD supporters would like this war to continue and bring down both formats instead of standing by a unified format to battle DVD so we can get mass adoption. It's been stated many times that having two competing formats is bad for adoption by the mass consumer.

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post #1083 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:36 PM
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I don't think this thread needs to be a sticky anymore.
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post #1084 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmf99 View Post

Then I would need ten of them to contain my current HD movie library. $4000 for players and movies cost extra? No thanks.

So you would want to watch all of those movies at one time? you just cant delete one that is saved to your computer and then later restore it if you wanted?

you do know you can get 500 gigs for about $100 now.
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post #1085 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmalover View Post

For one, stop delaying the envitiable and accept that Blu ray is the format of choice. I didn't suggest for you to throw away the players, you can still use them, but it seems that the HD-DVD supporters would like this war to continue and bring down both formats instead of standing by a unified format to battle DVD so we can get mass adoption. It's been stated many times that having two competing formats is bad for adoption by the mass consumer.

And, with 1.6 million titles sold on BD and 1.2 million titles sold on HD DVD, it's a bit presumptuous to assume -- with such a small delta on such a small number of sales -- that HD DVD owners should "accept" that BD is the format of choice.

No choice has been made yet, by studios, retailers, or consumers. I could just as easily make the same argument that people should stop buying BDs so that HD DVD can battle (or combine with) standard DVD for mass adoption.


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post #1086 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboisvert View Post

Of course it won't. But it isn't a deathblow either. Reading these threads in a few years is going to be hilarious.

The Fifth Element is released and looks terrible:
BLU-RAY IS STILLBORN!

CES BD announcements and lack of Q1 HD DVD titles:
HD DVD IS DEAD!

Tons of BD cancelled titles, price drops on Toshibas, Universal announcements:
BD IS ON THE ROPES!

Blockbuster makes a decision to "initially" (that's the term the COO used) go with blu-ray:
HD DVD IS A SINKING SHIP!


Folks -- there are going to be ups and downs (for *both* sides) throughout this entire process... which will take at least another 12-24 months before we see any clarity. None of these small blips on the radar are anything to get worked up about.

I agree with you here. This is just another volley in the format "war". More to come...from each side. But this was a pretty potent "volley"!


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post #1087 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

maybe it is new math, but how is 1500/5000 stores = 85% of B&M stores?

It seems to me it should be 1,700/5,000 and of course that is nowhere near 85% either, closer to 34%.

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post #1088 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by plasmalover View Post

For one, stop delaying the envitiable and accept that Blu ray is the format of choice. I didn't suggest for you to throw away the players, you can still use them, but it seems that the HD-DVD supporters would like this war to continue and bring down both formats instead of standing by a unified format to battle DVD so we can get mass adoption. It's been stated many times that having two competing formats is bad for adoption by the mass consumer.

mass adaptation wont happen ever.... its barely 1% now. I think either wont reach higher then 20% by then downloads will take over and destroy which ever is still around.
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post #1089 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Katana Man View Post


So, what are you trying to say here? That HD-DVD will hold it's place due to this news? That HD-DVD is a reliable or principal support? A large business that attracts customers and other businesses to a shopping center or mall? If you wanted to be "funny", you should have put that on a picture of the Titanic.

If anything, that should have Blu Ray on there with the recent "OMG!!! Blockbuster news"
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post #1090 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jaewon View Post

1450 / 1700 = 85%?

I think they're just talking about the stores that carry HD.

All 1,700 will carry Blu-ray, so it is 34% of stores carry Blu-ray or 100% of stores carrying HD discs carry Blu-ray or 85% of stores carrying HD disc carry Blu-ray exclusively. It matters but it isn't the end of HD DVD, only Universal ending HD DVD exclusivity is conclusive in my opinion.

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post #1091 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I agree with you here. This is just another volley in the format "war". More to come...from each side. But this was a pretty potent "volley"!

What is funny yesterday before the news I was wondering to myself if only one had existed since the beginning would things be better. if prices where as low as they are now probably so but to dam many people are happy with their dvd players. why would anyone who is happy with what they got go out and buy something else? just cause ford/chevy come out with a better looking car doesn't mean all the people who bought their last model are gonna go sell it and buy the new one.
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post #1092 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:44 PM
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This point has probably been made at some point in the 38-ish pages of this thread... but this could be an opportunity for a studio (Universal? Warner?) to put a title out as a combo only -- no standard DVD. If Blockbuster doesn't want to stock additional formats, why not go after the standard def one and get the HD DVDs in stores?


I don't know much about the economics of whether they could ever pull this off (pressing millions of combos instead of millions of standard DVDs and a few thousand HD DVDS)... but it would be interesting. It also may (via volume) reduce the cost of combos to the point where they become more appealing for customers (instead of $40 titles that aren't tempting).

While I'm not a combo hater, I don't think they've ever been used effectively by studios. This seems like an opportunity to remedy that.


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post #1093 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I've stated my reasons for preferring HD DVD many times in other threads.

3) Almost all titles released on HD DVD are using VC1, which is a fantastic codec. Most releases have class leading quality which makes them easy to accept as keepers.

4) Most releases on BD are in Mpeg - close to 70%, in fact. The quality is variable, and not what I expect or want from a next-gen purchase. While more releases are now arriving as AVC encodes, these are still not the majority of what is available on the BD format.

5) HD DVD delivered on quality, not talk.

Odd that none of these reasons are backed up in the reality of the discs.
One only need look at the reviews to see that. Blu-ray is ahead in consistent picture quality and audio quality and continues to distance itself from HD DVD in these two areas every month.

I will post the June 1st, 2007 numbers. If you'd like me to post what these were in April, March and January of this year then just say the word, but it shows that HD DVD has been caught up not just in sales, but quality as well.

HDD 159HD/198BD, HTS 159HD/190BD, HTF 43HD/71BD, UD 110HD/104BD, Talk 200HD/222BD
06.01.07
Code:
HD DVD  PQ      SQ      TOTAL               Blu-ray    PQ      SQ      TOTAL 
HighDef    3.97    3.67    3.82    HighDef       3.98    3.85    3.92 
HTSpot     4.02    3.87    3.94            HTSpot        4.02    4.25    4.13 
DVDTalk    3.69    3.51    3.60            DVDTalk       3.63    3.68    3.66 
HTForum    4.15    3.82    3.99            HTForum       4.27    4.09    4.18 
UpDisc     4.04    3.86    3.95            UpDisc        4.04    4.15    4.09 
Totals  3.92    3.71    3.82                Totals     3.93    3.96    3.94 
As per your previous statement that taken individually each site will show that HD DVD is better, you need only look at this chart to see what each individual's sites scores are.
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post #1094 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Godsmack View Post

Well look what happened to the music industry.
The future is downloads. I give blu ray or hd dvd 4 years tops

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money you're wrong. Only time will tell though.

HD DVD: 67
Blu-ray: 140
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post #1095 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:54 PM
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post #1096 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:55 PM
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I have nothing against HD-DVD supporters -- they can live in their fantasy world where red wins (I've noticed they tend to be rather optimistic, bordering on delusional, about HD-DVD's chances)-- HD-DVD can survive alongside as a niche format for all I care -- All I want is Universal onboard Blu-ray, and Blockbuster's move may help accomplish that. Thank you Blockbuster!
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post #1097 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bboisvert View Post


While I'm not a combo hater, I don't think they've ever been used effectively by studios. This seems like an opportunity to remedy that.

The day that happens is gonna be another day of endless threads by members to talk about how blu ray is a sinking boat just like its going on now with hd dvd anchor joke.

Sometimes I wish that threads like this would only anounce it and sticky it and lock it. and not allow for any responds or additional threads, it brings out the worst in anyone and looks bad for the forum.
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post #1098 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by plasmalover View Post

For one, stop delaying the envitiable and accept that Blu ray is the format of choice. I didn't suggest for you to throw away the players, you can still use them, but it seems that the HD-DVD supporters would like this war to continue and bring down both formats instead of standing by a unified format to battle DVD so we can get mass adoption. It's been stated many times that having two competing formats is bad for adoption by the mass consumer.

I think that this war is the best thing that could have happened for consumers. The only thing that would have been better, is if it had been a fair fight with all of the studios releasing on both formats and all of the stores giving equal treatment to both formats. However, anyone thinking that there would have been this huge upsurge of Blu-ray player sales over the last year if Blu-ray had been the only format, is delusional. Sure, there would have been more of us HD DVD early adopters buying the players, but that's miniscule compared to the general public. The public would still have stayed away because the price of Blu-ray players would be way more than the average person would want to pay, and they would have remained higher due to the lack of competion from HD DVD. We have benefited greatly from this war. When I get a Blu-ray player it will be fully featured and a whole lot cheaper than if HD DVD did not exist. I can't understand why any informed person on this forum is buying a Blu-ray player today knowing that full spec players are coming very soon. And the people that are not informed that are buying Blu-ray players today should be very pissed once they realize that their player isn't fully featured. Just because the Blu-ray fanatics keep saying over and over that having two formats is a bad thing doesn't make it true.
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post #1099 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by beatboy77 View Post

Sorry, I did not know of this. I could not find it on their webpage.

~Josh

Let's try to just state facts in this threads. If you are not sure than don't post it.
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post #1100 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post

Odd that none of these reasons are backed up in the reality of the discs.

I'll respond, despite my belief that your response was just another attempt to post your chart for the 3rd or 4th time in this thread.

You disagreed with only points 3, 4 and 5 - so I take it the rest of the 11 points were OK.

Regarding point 3 - it's fact. almost all HD DVD releases are in VC1, which has demonstrated a consistently better PQ than Mpeg2.

re: point 4 - it's fact. the majority, nearly 70%, of BD releases have been in Mpeg2, which has consistently shown lower quality, especially when combined with a single-layer disc. About 70% of BD releases are on a single layer disc, most of these in Mpeg2. In fact, around 50% of BD releases are both Mpeg2 and on a single layer disc.

re: point 5. It's my opinion, shared by others. BD did a lot of talking, but not enough delivery. HD DVD delivered, in spades, consistently.

As a anecdotal note, I only posted that list because someone asked me repeatedly why I preferred HD DVD. They are the reasons I prefer the format. One can argue with them till the cows come home, but they are still my reasons.

There are a lot of folks jumping all over this BB thing and using it as an opportunity to say the "war is over" or that "HD DVD is dead" or otherwise trying to make fun of HD DVD supporters, but at the end of the day, in 30 days, it'll mean a lot less.

BB is taking the position that many of their customers don't matter, which is always a big mistake, IMV...

Ahh... F1 in full HD 3D with
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post #1101 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Iggster View Post

So how many of you see it convenient and smart to drive to the local rental store and spend this much on gas? and put mileage on your car and wear/tear.

I can walk to both Blockbuster and Hollywood Video from my house (and incidentally they both carry both formats, though HV has more BDs than HD DVDs).

Being realistic, the model for video rental will not change overnight just because gas prices increase a few percent. No matter how much you might want them to.

Content is key. See the stats -
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post #1102 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bboisvert View Post

And I'm equally sure that they didn't. So where does that leave us?

I dunno ... based on this news alone, I cancelled my A2 and XA2 orders (one for each room) and I just ordered every PS3 I could find online ... I'm sure there will be a huge demand for them now that Blockbuster is going to offer Blu-ray in an extra 1400 stores. Now I can sell all those extras PS3's on eBay for like 4 quadrillion dollars!
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post #1103 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

re: point 4 - it's fact. the majority, nearly 70%, of BD releases have been in Mpeg2, which has consistently shown lower quality, especially when combined with a single-layer disc. About 70% of BD releases are on a single layer disc, most of these in Mpeg2. In fact, around 50% of BD releases are both Mpeg2 and on a single layer disc.

It seems that the average quality of HD DVD is consistantly dropping as Universal drags out tired catalogue releases.

Perhaps you should keep more up to date with the reviews and update your facts according to today instead of living in 2006.

To support your facts you need to present some evidence other than your 'everybody knows' approach. We don't know. What we see differs from your so called facts. Perhaps some kind of evidence is needed?

Like how Paramount is moving away from VC-1 towards AVC for their HD DVDs. Hows that for a fact.

Content is key. See the stats -
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post #1104 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:16 PM
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There's probably one thing on which virtually everyone can agree, regardless of whether one thinks this Blockbuster announcement is a big event or a non-event: it can't be good for HD-DVD to have an entire news cycle dedicated to asking whether or not HD-DVD is done as a viable format.
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post #1105 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jdg345 View Post

I dunno ... based on this news alone, I cancelled my A2 and XA2 orders (one for each room) and I just ordered every PS3 I could find online ... I'm sure there will be a huge demand for them now that Blockbuster is going to offer Blu-ray in an extra 1400 stores. Now I can sell all those extras PS3's on eBay for like 4 quadrillion dollars!

I assume this is a jest. There is no problem buying a PS3 (or at least had better not be since I am about to buy one for my son-in-law).
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post #1106 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

There's probably one thing on which virtually everyone can agree, regardless of whether one thinks this Blockbuster announcement is a big event or a non-event: it can't be good for HD-DVD to have an entire news cycle dedicated to asking whether or not HD-DVD is done as a viable format.

Exactly right.

And welcome to the forum!


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post #1107 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Phloyd View Post

I can walk to both Blockbuster and Hollywood Video from my house (and incidentally they both carry both formats, though HV has more BDs than HD DVDs).

Being realistic, the model for video rental will not change overnight just because gas prices increase a few percent. No matter how much you might want them to.

A few percent? not even 2 years ago was gas $2 a gallong now its over $3 a gallon that looks more like an increase of 50% imagine if in another 2 years it goes up 50% that will put gas at 5 a gallon and in the future even more unless things change.

Just cause you can walk to BB doesn't mean everyone else can. I wish i had it that easy
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post #1108 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bboisvert View Post

For anyone thinks this is a "blow" to HD DVD or that Blockbuster has made a solid decision that they won't go back on, I encourage you to listen to the truth, directly from the mouth of the Blockbuster COO:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=383736735&play=1

Thanks for posting the link to the interview video. Everyone here really ought to watch it.

The Blockbuster COO seems like a very decent and reasonable guy and actually listening to him speak leaves one with a completely different impression of this whole story compared to the somewhat sensational headlines.

Bradley

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post #1109 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I'll respond, despite my belief that your response was just another attempt to post your chart for the 3rd or 4th time in this thread.

You disagreed with only points 3, 4 and 5 - so I take it the rest of the 11 points were OK.

Regarding point 3 - it's fact. almost all HD DVD releases are in VC1, which has demonstrated a consistently better PQ than Mpeg2.

re: point 4 - it's fact. the majority, nearly 70%, of BD releases have been in Mpeg2, which has consistently shown lower quality, especially when combined with a single-layer disc. About 70% of BD releases are on a single layer disc, most of these in Mpeg2. In fact, around 50% of BD releases are both Mpeg2 and on a single layer disc.

re: point 5. It's my opinion, shared by others. BD did a lot of talking, but not enough delivery. HD DVD delivered, in spades, consistently.

As a anecdotal note, I only posted that list because someone asked me repeatedly why I preferred HD DVD. They are the reasons I prefer the format. One can argue with them till the cows come home, but they are still my reasons.

There are a lot of folks jumping all over this BB thing and using it as an opportunity to say the "war is over" or that "HD DVD is dead" or otherwise trying to make fun of HD DVD supporters, but at the end of the day, in 30 days, it'll mean a lot less.

BB is taking the position that many of their customers don't matter, which is always a big mistake, IMV...

I am at pains to understand why people care so much about which format wins as long as one does and we get the content we want.

If I wake up tomorrow and Warners/Paramount/Disney/Fox are all supporting HD DVD exclusively and everyone agrees that the format war is now truly over and studios are going full-bore for HD DVD, I will sing a happy tune all the way to the electronics store to buy an HD DVD player.

I just hope that this BB news really is the tipping point.
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post #1110 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 04:29 PM
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Thanks for the welcome.

The Blockbuster CEO interview is worth watching, as are the analyst interviews later in the clip. The Blockbuster guy is very measured and does state that this format war is just at the start, etc. But, at the end of the day, his 1400+ stores will just have Blu-Ray and people will consider that this holiday season when they are making their minds up about which player format to buy, if they buy one at all.
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