Blockbuster Blu-ray announcement: Master Thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:13 PM
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Considering the conspiracy theories being posted by the same old Blu-ray haters I want to post a few quotes from Blockbuster COO Nick Shepherd explaining again why Blockbuster made this perfectly rational decision:

"That right now in this point in time there was a greater demand for Blu-ray..."

"This was purely around consumers telling us that at this point in time they favored Blu-ray..."

"The bottom line today is that consumers have chosen Blu-ray initially..."

"Initially this decision is based purely on the number of rents we have seen in our 250 pioneering stores..."
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post #1172 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:18 PM
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Well, after thinking about it for most of the day (with taking time out for eating, of course!), I decided to cancel my Crutchfield order for a Toshiba HD-A2 ($199). But I have no intention of buying a Blu-Ray player, or any other type of HD player, for a while. Several reasons:

1. I don't feel like swaying with the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wind every other week.
2. I'm not convinced Blockbuster made a shrewd business decision; on the other hand, too many people will walk into Blockbuster and see Blu Ray only.
3. I think the price of Toshiba HD-DVD players will continue to drop; it's the only way they can stay competitive. That $199 is going to look expensive in a few months, I think.
4. My Panasonic S97 is a perfectly acceptable machine until these HD wars settle down.
5. $400 is too much to spend on a DVD player, even if it's Blu-Ray. $200 is my limit. I'm guessing $125 or so is the limit for most people.

I think what will happen as a result of today is that people are going to stop buying HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players for a while. People who read this story won't buy an HD-DVD player because they'll be afraid of buying a dead format. But then they'll start researching Blu-Ray players, see that they cost $400 and decide, "I'll stick with what I have." I'm guessing that for a while, the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war is unofficially stagnant.
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post #1173 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdg345 View Post

Overall, it looks to be quite even to me ... especially when you consider all the value added content you get with HD DVD like U-Control, IME, PiP, etc.

btw, are you planning on posting this chart and comments every X pages? Because I think this is like the 4th or 5th time I've seen it. Is it really necessary to do that?

You've thought wrong - the chart you've quoted, that's the first time you're seeing this chart.
The date of the numbers is there "06.18.07"
Check the other charts and you'll see they were not up to date, thanks.

Personally I don't think it's even at all - Blu-ray is far ahead on SQ, thanks to the more frequent inclusion on lossless audio.
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post #1174 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Considering the conspiracy theories being posted by the same old Blu-ray haters I want to post a few quotes from Blockbuster COO Nick Shepherd explaining again why Blockbuster made this perfectly rational decision:

"That right now in this point in time there was a greater demand for Blu-ray..."

"This was purely around consumers telling us that at this point in time they favored Blu-ray..."

"The bottom line today is that consumers have chosen Blu-ray initially..."

"Initially this decision is based purely on the number of rents we have seen in our 250 pioneering stores..."

So they make long term decisions based on instant trends - indicating a poor business sense
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post #1175 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

So they make long term decisions based on instant trends - indicating a poor business sense

This is a company that lost about $3.5 Billion from 2002-2004. They lost nearly $50 million just in this past quarter. A shrewd business sense is not something they seem to possess.
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post #1176 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboisvert View Post

This is a company that lost about $3.5 Billion from 2002-2004. They lost nearly $50 million just in this past quarter. A shrewd business sense is not something they seem to possess.

All the more reason for them to get this decision right!
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post #1177 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:32 PM
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You were doing fine,

Thanks!
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but then you had to add the disc rot thing.

Sorry... (looks a little worrying tho...)
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post #1178 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:35 PM
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Funny how this thread based on what many here are saying is a "non-story" is up to 41 pages already in less than a day and a half.... Is that a record here..?!?

hmmm....

edit: 42 pages...


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post #1179 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

All the more reason for them to get this decision right!

Well, it's definitely an obvious reason why they're gun-shy about rolling HD DVD wider. If the 70/30 figures are correct (and the total amount of interest in BD/HD is as low as I suspect), going wide with HD DVD doesn't make much sense *today*. And going wide with BD makes only slightly more sense.

But it's VERY early in the format war to be picking a side like that. I suppose they have plenty of time to react as the market grows. If HD DVD players sell like pancakes during the holidays, they could always start rolling out rentals in Q1 08. It just seems like they may have been better off waiting until there was a clearer retail picture. I think we're going to see a lot of reaction from blockbuster, rather than action.



But, who knows, maybe BD is turning into the preferred format for renters. It's certainly a possible impact of the "PS3 effect" and lack of games. I'm just not sure that it will remain that way. It'll be interesting to watch.
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post #1180 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboisvert View Post

Well, it's definitely an obvious reason why they're gun-shy about rolling HD DVD wider. If the 70/30 figures are correct (and the total amount of interest in BD/HD is as low as I suspect), going wide with HD DVD doesn't make much sense *today*. And going wide with BD makes only slightly more sense.

But it's VERY early in the format war to be picking a side like that. I suppose they have plenty of time to react as the market grows. If HD DVD players sell like pancakes during the holidays, they could always start rolling out rentals in Q1 08. It just seems like they may have been better off waiting until there was a clearer retail picture. I think we're going to see a lot of reaction from blockbuster, rather than action.



But, who knows, maybe BD is turning into the preferred format for renters. It's certainly a possible impact of the "PS3 effect" and lack of games. I'm just not sure that it will remain that way. It'll be interesting to watch.

What can I say, I find myself agreeing with you yet again in this thread. Seriously, I think these are all valid points/possibilities.....and yes, it will be most interesting to watch!
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post #1181 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Considering the conspiracy theories being posted by the same old Blu-ray haters I want to post a few quotes from Blockbuster COO Nick Shepherd explaining again why Blockbuster made this perfectly rational decision:

"That right now in this point in time there was a greater demand for Blu-ray..."

"This was purely around consumers telling us that at this point in time they favored Blu-ray..."

"The bottom line today is that consumers have chosen Blu-ray initially..."

"Initially this decision is based purely on the number of rents we have seen in our 250 pioneering stores..."

Cherry picking at it's finest. It wouldn't have killed you to include the other things he said. About eventually expanding to carry HD DVD in the next 12-18 months if market share picks up. Remember that "Nano-Second in time" quote he used?

I agree with you that it was a rational decision though. A bit premature probably, but founded in reason.
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post #1182 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

So they make long term decisions based on instant trends - indicating a poor business sense

Well I didn't know a 6+ month trend was considered "instant" though as he said it is only the initial trend they have observed. Also how exactly is it "poor business sense" to offer a video format for rent that has been renting twice as well as the competing video format? It seems pretty common sense to me and if HD DVD ever rents as well as Blu-ray they would offer it for rent as well. As such I find it funny that the more fanatical HD DVD supporters are already screaming the words "boycott" when that would only skew the rental data even further for Blu-ray. Than again if it insures that a plentiful number of Blu-ray titles are available for rent at my local Blockbuster I wouldn't be against that.
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post #1183 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:43 PM
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I remember when the video stores around me stopped renting Beta movies (yep, I'm old...)
Sucked for me. I had a Sony betamax. I eventually got a VHS, interestingly, a VERY overpriced Toshiba.



movin' on...
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post #1184 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:43 PM
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as a cfo of a publicly traded company he has to be very circumspect in his remarks since there is a huge liability attached.
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post #1185 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by desmond212 View Post

as a cfo of a publicly traded company he has to be very circumspect in his remarks since there is a huge liability attached.

You'd think so, but try dialing into an Overstock.com earnings call and see what happens!
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post #1186 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid101 View Post

You'd think so, but try dialing into an Overstock.com earnings call and see what happens!

lol!
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post #1187 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Well I didn't know a 6+ month trend was considered "instant" though as he said it is only the initial trend they have observed. Also how exactly is it "poor business sense" to offer a video format for rent that has been renting twice as well as the competing video format? It seems pretty common sense to me and if HD DVD ever rents as well as Blu-ray they would offer it for rent as well. As such I find it funny that the more fanatical HD DVD supporters are already screaming the words "boycott" when that would only skew the rental data even further for Blu-ray. Than again if it insures that a plentiful number of Blu-ray titles are available for rent at my local Blockbuster I wouldn't be against that.

I don't know many businesses that forego 30% of their revenue based on "this point of time". Sounds sort of stupid, really
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post #1188 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:49 PM
 
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Quote:


"So they make long term decisions based on instant trends - indicating a poor business sense "

Quote:


"This is a company that lost about $3.5 Billion from 2002-2004. They lost nearly $50 million just in this past quarter. A shrewd business sense is not something they seem to possess"

If you believe the COO - BB did not make the decision - BB customers did. 250 stores - all stock both formats. After 6 months (this test started in November) - they look at the results and see that overwhelingly - BD got rented more. So they expand the rollout to another 1450 to capitalize on the results of the test - and leave the 250 test stores with both (probably to keep an eye on and verify the data 6 months from now)

As BB lite the fuse to what became the exploding DVD market by doing the same thing almost 9 years ago - few hundred stores got DVD (at a time when VHS held 99% of the market and LD held the other 1%) and the results were very positive that they immediately began to rollout DVD throughout all their stores.

In business - get in early - investment is smaller (in this case no investment), better chance of success and becoming the market leader early and gaining a good lead over others who may enter the market after you (remember that no investment thing).

Retailers hate the format war with a passion. To them it is duplicate inventory and this drives them crazy.

And you think BB made a bad decision? Is that a business man saying those words, or is it a "supporter" of a choosen format saying them?
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post #1189 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:53 PM
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So what should an HDDVD outfit like Toshiba do to respond? They're not going to get any major brick and morter stores to dump blu ray in a kind of tit for tat. But why not work out a deal with Netflix to provide 3 or 6 months (something pretty generous) of free HDDVD rentals. It would produce new Netflix customers so they should be willing to work out a pretty good discount for Toshiba and it basically sticks it in Blockbuster's face: "You worried you might not be able to rent HDDVDs? Think again!" I think if I were wavering, maybe even interested in a Blu Ray player, but saw a big promotional display promoting free Netflix HDDVD rentals along with a 200 or 300 dollar price difference in the machines, it might sway me to buy the Toshiba.
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post #1190 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

I don't know many businesses that forego 30% of their revenue based on "this point of time". Sounds sort of stupid, really

Blockbuster is going to roll out high-def in more locations, but right now it's niche. So the decision had to be made as to what would be the best use of their shelf space (remember, shelves for HD take away from DVD), and it came down to BD. It's as simple as that - no misguided business decisions or anything else. It's not 30% of revenue, its choosing which horse to pick in order to best grow that 1% of revenue while not artificially constraining the existing 99%.
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post #1191 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post

After a few sparse months of token Blu-Ray representation on the shelves, Blockbuster will make an announcement that their customers have not embraced Blu-Ray rentals, that neither format is ready for primetime, and that our customers have told us they prefer to have a wider variety of std-definition programming to select from. We recommend that for most customers, std def DVD will remain king.

Universal has some interesting options as well,

1.) Make the distribution of std-def DVD licensing contingent on taking a percentage as HD-DVD
2.) Make every std-def DVD a *combo* disk at the std def price, something they can easily do. HD-DVD afterall, is just an extension of the red laser technology, much cheaper to produce for profit than Blu-Ray disks.

What consumers could end up with, is Blu-Ray being the better format for rentals due to it's durability advantage (if it really has one), and HD-DVD being the better format for ownership since one side is std-def, the other HD and cheaper to own.

What's most interesting to me, is how Blockbuster has created headlines for itself without adding any actual inventory or spending any money to advertise. Will they back it up? I'm still waiting for them to make good on an earlier promise, "It's in stock, or it's free." <-- Good luck collecting on that one.

The future is format neutral.

"The future is format neutral"? I don't know about that. I checked with my local Blockbuster to see what's in its future, and the manager said that his store's hi-def future is Blu and only Blu. And most likely next month will be when the new inventory arrives. That doesn't seem so neutral to me.
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post #1192 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Blockbuster is going to roll out high-def in more locations, but right now it's niche. So the decision had to be made as to what would be the best use of their shelf space (remember, shelves for HD take away from DVD), and it came down to BD. It's as simple as that - no misguided business decisions or anything else. It's not 30% of revenue, its choosing which horse to pick in order to best grow that 1% of revenue while not artificially constraining the existing 99%.

Not really. The trend of player and disk sales does not indicate a slam-dunk for BD. What they've done is ignore and/or alienate a growing number of HDM owners who can help their bottom line. They're betting on the outcome of the format war - that's not business, that's emotion.
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post #1193 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

Not really. The trend of player and disk sales does not indicate a slam-dunk for BD. What they've done is ignore and/or alienate a growing number of HDM owners who can help their bottom line. They're betting on the outcome of the format war - that's not business, that's emotion.


They're not profitting....why would you offer an item you make no money from?

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post #1194 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numanoid101 View Post

Cherry picking at it's finest. It wouldn't have killed you to include the other things he said.

I was trying to prove why they picked Blu-ray and I never said that was a summary of what he said. He said many very neutral things about this format war and if you want to post those quotes you can. In fact someone already did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Numanoid101 View Post

About eventually expanding to carry HD DVD in the next 12-18 months if market share picks up.

More technically he said they would wait to see how the two formats do over the next 12 to 18 months. For instance if Blu-ray continues to do better we might see more Blockbuster stores get Blu-ray titles. One of the reasons why I think HD DVD supporters boycotting Blockbuster would actually end up harming their cause.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Numanoid101 View Post

I agree with you that it was a rational decision though. A bit premature probably, but founded in reason.

Good, and though I know some people believe it premature for those wanting HD discs to take off isn't it a good sign? After all would it have been better had Blockbuster decided that neither HD format should be stocked in their stores?


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Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

I don't know many businesses that forego 30% of their revenue based on "this point of time". Sounds sort of stupid, really

Well they only have a limited amount of money and a limited amount of shelf space so it was more along the lines of picking one format that offers 2x rentals or the other that only offers 1x rentals. Of course if HD DVD rentals ever increase that will change things but until than all the boycotts/threats in the world isn't going to do much good. After all as much as Blockbuster loves to receive hate filled emails they aren't going to start offering HD DVD in more of their stores until more people rent it. That is just simple economics.
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post #1195 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper View Post

"The future is format neutral"? I don't know about that. I checked with my local Blockbuster to see what's in its future, and the manager said that his store's hi-def future is Blu and only Blu. And most likely next month will be when the new inventory arrives. That doesn't seem so neutral to me.


Stop the press!! End the war!! This BB manager knows something we don't!! The future is blu!


How can you claim to know what the future is? Because your local BB manager says so?!

It is better to ask for forgiveness, than it is to ask for permissision - the WAF factor
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post #1196 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

I don't know many businesses that forego 30% of their revenue based on "this point of time". Sounds sort of stupid, really

You are missing a decimal, since 1% of the business is hd media and 30% of that was HD DVD they are foregoing .3% in hopes that they will greatly increase the .7% that is BD.
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post #1197 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bboisvert View Post

This is a company that lost about $3.5 Billion from 2002-2004. They lost nearly $50 million just in this past quarter. A shrewd business sense is not something they seem to possess.

Sounds EXACTLY like NBC/Universal. Wierd.

~Josh

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post #1198 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:23 PM
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I have no idea why "boycott" is being thrown around unless it is used in terms of what Bb is doing. And obviously we are talking about the HDM market, since no self-respecting HDM consumer will rent DVD's.
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post #1199 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:27 PM
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You do know that hd dvd NEEDS the blu laser right? Without it would just be dvd and not have 15-30 gigs of space.

Iggster the original format that was proposed by Warner and Toshiba was red laser with newer CODECs (actually AVC). The companies that wanted blue laser finally had enough because nothing was getting done in the DVD forum and so created the Blu ray Founders to develop a real HD format. That is when Toshiba changed plans and came back with AOD and blue laser
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post #1200 of 2370 Old 06-18-2007, 08:36 PM
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It's shocking how many of the posts are either off-topic or personal attacks..

It's far more common than it should be. There are some extremely brilliant and helpful people on this forum. Unfortunately there's a lot of trash talkers who go for the jugular and deride people if they post something remotely questionable.

You wouldn't believe the garbage I've had to take when I represented a company on here. I thought people would be open minded. Hah! There's more cynicism here than at an atheists convention.
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