Blockbuster Blu-ray announcement: Master Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Guessing a permanent MSRP of the A2 for $299. - Announcement tomorrow (really today)


i don't think that will work, just more losses...
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post #242 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Steverhcp02 View Post

the best part about this is it was so unexpected and NOT from sony.

Of course. Of course....
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post #243 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

PS3 can't be programmed into my Harmony remote = functionally incomplete (actually the only reason I didn't buy one last fall)

it can. i've done it, also posted a link to a how-to on the bd player forum.
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post #244 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

If you want to let Blockbuster know how you feel about all this go here http://www.blockbuster.com/help/contactUs

I already told them what I think. Now I'm off to sign up with Netflix.

No offense...I appreciate what you are doing (or think you are doing) - because I USED TO OFTEN POST THIS KIND OF THING MYSELF...but honestly if you haven't yet learned that such actions are a meaningless drop in the bucket and that we should embrace moves to end the war rather than do the opposite -- then I can't help you.
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post #245 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by desmond212 View Post

i don't think that will work, just more losses...

More assumed loses. As has been pointed out by others, Sony has invested far more money into this fight than Toshiba has.

It's not over yet.
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post #246 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desmond212 View Post

i don't think that will work, just more losses...

They would have to go a lower lower than $299 at this point to get attention. They would probably have to go to at least $249 and maybe even lower. They would also have to do something in the retail space.

HD-DVD definitely does not enjoy the shelf space at BB and other retail that BD does. The frustrating thing is that there are over 100 good HD DVD titles that my local BB doesn't stock... yet, somehow, they think stocking "Species" on BD is a good idea.

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post #247 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tauheel05 View Post

I'm gonna say it again...

With Weinstein having a good relationship with Blockbuster as well as "Hard Boiled" coming to blu-ray, I foresee an announcement soon about them going neutral. Here comes "Grindhouse!"

Hmm...this is a good point...seems right! We shall see...
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post #248 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by evolver View Post

Of course. Of course....

facts > conjecture/blind hatred for Sony
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post #249 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

They would have to go a lower lower than $299 at this point to get attention. They would probably have to go to at least $249 and maybe even lower. They would also have to do something in the retail space.

HD-DVD definitely does not enjoy the shelf space at BB and other retail that BD does. The frustrating thing is that there are over 100 good HD DVD titles that my local BB doesn't stock... yet, somehow, they think stocking "Species" on BD is a good idea.


retailers won't try to help struggling format - they want the war to end asap. xmas sales are their lifeblood.
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post #250 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desmond212 View Post

i don't think that will work, just more losses...

I see you are new here. Have you followed any of the threads that tried to deal with this issue?

NOT ONE poster has ANY proof of ANY kind to add merit to this fiction that Toshiba is losing money on ANY of it's HD DVD players OTHER than the A1 of which there was a June 2006 article by isupply that showed it was (they tear down CE and show what the components cost versus the MSRP.)

So if you would also like to waste your time and try to come up with ANYTHING that shows direct proof that this is a fact . . and not fiction.

We are all ears!
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post #251 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I have no problem backing BD either, if in fact it is crowned the champion by early next year.

I do have a question for everyone cheering this though. Blockbuster is backing BD in their rollout because it is outrenting HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin.

And everyone is cheering and saying how logical and smart this is.

So, what if Blockbuster said that since Xbox 360 rentals are out-renting PS3 rentals by a 7-1 margin that they are no longer going to rent PS3 games?

Would you guys still think this was a great logical choice and "good" for consumers?

Very good but this doesn't apply since, by and large, we've always had one clear format to get all our movies on with no "exclusive" movies existing elsewhere - whereas for videogames it has always been the opposite with exclusives games being a standard for every console since the beginning of time. Also console hardware has very unique strengths in and of themselves. All movie player machines essentially do the same function in the same way.
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post #252 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by desmond212 View Post

retailers won't try to help struggling format - they want the war to end asap. xmas sales are their lifeblood.

If they cant sell the discs for the format, why help the format limp along? I bet they make more money selling BD players then hd-dvd players by a HUGE margin. We all know that B&M sales are also putrid for hd-dvd, since 90% of hd-dvd owners tend to be on the internet and buy from amazon. Just makes sense to drop hd-dvd altogether for places like Best Buy, push the software/hardware that brings in the BIG profit (blu-ray), and make everyone happy. Blockbuster is just the start of the chain reaction...
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post #253 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:55 PM
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New A2 owner here. No way around it, this is bad news for HD-DVD. Very surprised myself; this is way early for a retailer to declare a preference considering current customer bases for HD players. I use BB Total Access and rent HD-DVDs, so I am glad to see they are keeping them available online at least.

I told myself from the start that I was buying HD-DVD because it was a good upconverter for $8 more than an Oppo 981 and that's held true. Though, I think this is the first (but not last) real nail in the HD-DVD coffin. There are plenty more moves to be made on both sides, but this is certainly a big round for Blu-Ray.
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post #254 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

I see you are new here. Have you followed any of the threads that tried to deal with this issue?

NOT ONE poster has ANY proof of ANY kind to add merit to this fiction that Toshiba is losing money on ANY of it's HD DVD players OTHER than the A1 of which there was a June 2006 article by isupply that showed it was (they tear down CE and show what the components cost versus the MSRP.)

So if you would also like to waste your time and try to come up with ANYTHING that shows direct proof that this is a fact . . and not fiction.

We are all ears!


so the total cost of the product is the sum of cost of its parts? marketing, research and development don't count i guess.
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post #255 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JackBee View Post

Blockbuster is just the start of the chain reaction...

I hope you are right. We shall see!
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post #256 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolver View Post

This deal is more complicated than that and involves more players than just BB, I suspect, but it essentially works out to the same thing, only not so shady. Just low. But this is business we're talking about. and this is Sony we're talking about, so....

I think you are reading into this way too much.
Fact: Both HD DVD and Blu-Ray are niche formats
Fact: According to Nielsen Videoscan Blu-Ray has outsold HD DVD in 2007 by a wide margin. HD media sales as reported by Nielsen in 2007 show Blu-Ray capturing almost 70% of the market (YTD).

According to the press release, Blockbuster stated that Blu-Ray rentals made up 70% of their HD rentals. This certainly jives with the sales data. Blockbuster made a business decision for their local stores to support the better selling of the two niche formats. It is that simple. They still offer HD DVD rentals online (for now). It is almost July and according to Nielsen, HD DVD has not won one week of sales this year. Look at the signs, they are all around you..
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post #257 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by desmond212 View Post

so the total cost of the product is the sum of cost of its parts? marketing, research and development don't count i guess.

For this Forum and "the statement" . . . no they don't.
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post #258 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:02 PM
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From the Associated Press


Quote:
AP Exclusive:
Blockbuster to favor Blu-ray HD discs over DVD format
By Gary Gentile / AP Business Writer
Article Launched: 06/17/2007 02:40:24 PM MDT

LOS ANGELES - Blockbuster Inc. will rent high-definition DVDs only in the Blu-ray format in 1,450 stores when it expands its high-def offerings next month, dealing a major blow to the rival HD DVD format.
The move, being announced Monday, could be the first step in resolving a format war that has kept confused consumers from rushing to buy new DVD players until they can determine which format will dominate the market.

Blockbuster has been renting both Blu-ray and HD DVD titles in 250 stores since late last year and found that consumers were choosing Blu-ray titles more than 70 percent of the time.

"The consumers are sending us a message. I can't ignore what I'm seeing," Matthew Smith, senior vice president of merchandising at Blockbuster, told The Associated Press.

Blockbuster will continue to rent HD DVD titles in the original 250 locations and online, the Dallas-based company said.

The decision was helped in large part by the lopsided availability of titles in Blu-ray, Smith said. All major studios except one

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are releasing films in Blu-ray, with several, including The Walt Disney Co., releasing exclusively in Blu-ray. Only Universal Studios, which is owned by General Electric Co., exclusively supports HD DVD.
Warner Bros., a unit of Time Warner Inc., and Paramount Pictures, which is owned by Viacom Inc., release films in both formats.

"When you walk into a store and see all this product available in Blu-ray and there is less available on HD DVD, I think the consumer gets that," Smith said.

The rollout of Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3 game console, which comes standard with a Blu-ray drive, also helped give the format momentum, Smith said.

Blockbuster's decision, while significant on it's own, could boost Blu-ray even more if other retailers follow suit.

"It will help shift the balance toward Blu-ray, clearly," said Richard Doherty, president of The Envisioneering Group, a research company.

The North American HD DVD Promotional Group said Blockbuster's decision was shortsighted and skewed by the success of films released by Blu-ray studios in the first three months of the year. The group said HD DVD has since gained momentum, selling more players and popular titles such as "The 40-Year Old Virgin" and "The Matrix" trilogy.

"I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the group.

The two formats have been battling it out since they both hit the market last year. Studios hope the high-definition discs, with their sharper picture and more room for interactive special features and games, will replace standard definition DVDs.

The formats are incompatible and neither will play on standard DVD players, although standard DVDs can be viewed with either a Blu-ray or HD DVD player.

The Blu-ray camp has been helped by the release of such huge hits as "Casino Royale," ''Pirates of the Caribbean" and "Spider-Man" coming out exclusively in its format.

As the battle has unfolded, the price of the high-definition players needed to show the movies has plummeted. Toshiba Corp., the major supporter of HD DVD, is selling its player for $299 with a rebate, down from $499 when it first went on sale.

Sony, which is pushing Blu-ray, recently slashed the price of its player by more than half to $499. The player retailed for $1,000 when it first was introduced.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

I'm an HD-DVD supporter and there's no way to spin this into a positive. This is good news for Blu-ray... for real!

As if BB can't add HD DVDs in the future if demand warrants it. After all, companies change their strategies all the time.
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post #259 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BZiggyZ View Post

New A2 owner here. No way around it, this is bad news for HD-DVD. Very surprised myself; this is way early for a retailer to declare a preference considering current customer bases for HD players. I use BB Total Access and rent HD-DVDs, so I am glad to see they are keeping them available online at least.

I told myself from the start that I was buying HD-DVD because it was a good upconverter for $8 more than an Oppo 981 and that's held true. Though, I think this is the first (but not last) real nail in the HD-DVD coffin. There are plenty more moves to be made on both sides, but this is certainly a big round for Blu-Ray.

I feel the same way (A2 owner and Blu-Ray player owner). I don't think this is the death of HD DVD at all, but it certainly hurts their image and many people that were waiting on the fence may jump to camp Blu now..
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post #260 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

It amazes me still that people are convinced that unlike Laserdiscs that never got past early adoption, somehow this and the destruction of HD DVD will mean everyone who wasn't going to spend $500 and up on a Blu-ray player was going to magically have a change of heart and run right out to Best Buy. Candy canes and gumdrops will fall from the sky as people rush right out to buy their BD players.

Of course, I am on an enthousiast site where money seems not to be an issue to most people. That's why there is a vast disconnect. That's why I see one format at this time becoming the next great Laserdisc. Those of us in the mainstream will simply be priced out of this and stick with renting regular DVD's from Redbox and downloading HD movies on Xbox Live. Congratulations BDA.

Good points but wow, there is a lot of negative thinking going on there.

Couple things:
1) Player prices are destined to come down
2) There is a greater chance of mainstream success if a format war that confuses even the enthusiasts is out of the way than the other way around
3) People are more used to and into collecting movies, high-def, and such in general due to the popularity of SD DVD, HDTVs, HD TV programming, etc. The Playstation 3 has BD as a trojan horse and millions will buy that for gaming alone over the next few years.

So all the above things considered, it looks like the mainstream will be very willing to make the upgrade to HD physical media if there is generally one clear and healthy format out there.

I mean, especially as time passes and new prices/hardware/content/HDTVs start making "old SD DVD" look like ass.
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post #261 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

I'll take Slevin and Clerks 2 but Grindhouse was the worst movie ever made byfar hands down no contest. Not only was it bad and boring but it was so long and it felt like it lasted for 2 days.

P.S. I hated that movie.

147 BLU RAY DISCS AN COUNTING THANKS TO MY LATEST PURCHASES OF MUSIC & LYRICS, PRIMEVAL, AND GHOST RIDER.

....But music and lyrics, primeval and ghost rider were good? lol!!!
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post #262 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:13 PM
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Definitely not good news for HD DVD - any way you look at it.

With that being said, anyone have one of the 250 pilots in their area? I do. You know how many HD titles (HD DVD or Blu-ray the one in my area rented? The blue shirt guy I chatted with told me it was < 100 HD titles they've rented since day one of stocking them. When I asked when we can expect other stores to start stocking HD media, he said it was just the pilots for now, but because demand was so low, he said Blockbuster was telling them they weren't sure if they'd continue to stock HD at all. Granted, this is just what the guy was relaying to me, don't have any idea what the actual or total figures are like.

In any event, even if Blockbuster's HD rentals are a miniscule amount, if you only see Blu-ray there, you're going to be more inclined to ask about it or naturally be directed to buying Blu-ray. Definitely not good for HD DVD.

Not that it matters to me, but will Blockbuster continue to rent HD DVD online?
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post #263 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:15 PM
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Bad news, what's next for Toshiba? They need to do something really quick now rather than later. Toshiba is too slow while Sony going around making deal after deal with others. Toshiba can't win this alone.
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post #264 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:20 PM
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I just hope whichever side wins has some cheap players. so that it doesn't stay a niche format. But if you want my opinion. hd dvd and blu ray will be a niche format. I am gonna bookmark this just in case I am right if not then ill delete the bookmark lol
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post #265 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiminozo View Post

Bad news, what's next for Toshiba? They need to do something really quick now rather than later. Toshiba is too slow while Sony going around making deal after deal with others. Toshiba can't win this alone.

If you mean deal by deals in the sense of support then that alone wont win them the war. You cannot force someone to buy something they cant afford. and $200++ player is something most cant afford or just dont wish to spend so much on.

Flip side is toshiba is hoping that with no support and cheap players their gonna win. but IMO that wont win it, without support. both support and cheap prices are needed.

Want to argue about how prices don't matter and specs do and support don't matter well what sells more the wii or the ps3? ya I am comparing game consoles to disc players but in general people want as much as possible with as little money as possible. Their is people though that dont care just look at all those who buy bose for $4000
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post #266 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by nbay
I know it's not going to happen but it would be funny if Universal said to BB that they won't get any more Universal titles until they stock HD DVD.

A few years ago I believe Universal tried to re-negotiate their rental revenue term with Blockbuster to favor Universal. Blockbuster sat on the side lines and didn't order titles for a few weeks...

Universal blinked, and lost...

Universal needs Blockbuster more than Blockbuster needs Universal.

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post #267 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I think you are reading into this way too much.
Fact: Both HD DVD and Blu-Ray are niche formats
Fact: According to Nielsen Videoscan Blu-Ray has outsold HD DVD in 2007 by a wide margin. HD media sales as reported by Nielsen in 2007 show Blu-Ray capturing almost 70% of the market (YTD).

According to the press release, Blockbuster stated that Blu-Ray rentals made up 70% of their HD rentals. This certainly jives with the sales data. Blockbuster made a business decision for their local stores to support the better selling of the two niche formats. It is that simple. They still offer HD DVD rentals online (for now). It is almost July and according to Nielsen, HD DVD has not won one week of sales this year. Look at the signs, they are all around you..

Yeah, and you know, - for this above truth - I don't even know if I can or will blame the HD DVD group's inability/unwillingness to put out a lot of content during the first half of this year. I mean, HD DVD blew its wad and seemingly rightfully so during the '06 Xmas period and before. And there's no reason that Batman Begins, King Kong, and etc shouldn't have sold to more people during the first half of this year months after their particular release anway. I mean they ARE good titles. HD DVD has had A LOT of great, even exclusive content.

It's just that BD made the better move by doing the PS3 Trojan Horse, spending their marketing dough better, and by predicting that retailers/whoever would base their decisions on what goes down in '07 instead of much of anything that went down during all of '06 and the "early launch period". That is or may be why BD has had a boatload of content released since late-late December to just recently.
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post #268 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I feel the same way (A2 owner and Blu-Ray player owner). I don't think this is the death of HD DVD at all, but it certainly hurts their image and many people that were waiting on the fence may jump to camp Blu now..

It is true that people are going to jump the fence to Blu

IMO not becuz of this BLockbuster thing (it does add to the equation)
but becuz ther is no popular exclusive content on HD
i mean Matrix vs Pirates
come on! who did you think would win?

Unless Heroes sells phenomonally well HDDVD has to pull something bigg out of their closet, Gladiator\\star wars\\LOTR\\Full soprano's seasons\\Indiana Jone\\godfather\\shrek..something please give us something to chew on
I mean their upcoming big titles are multiformat
what are they doing?

I have both players and I was soo hoping the fight would last longer than one year
just for the sake of the customers who went only HDDVD and stayed true to them
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post #269 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:41 PM
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ack_bk , who knows, maybe I am being paranoid about this.

It's just that Viacomm I think owns BlockBuster (or did, anyway), and somone or some company that owns a controlling interest in them also owns a game company that Sony just did a deal with that involves a movie tie-in (Hardboiled). So my point being Sony's involvement in this BB announcement may be unofficial, but possibly not trivial. Someone with more than my pitiful knowledge of such matters want to chime in on specifics?

It's also a smart move to solidify their B&M position.

However, I don't think this is over just yet. Cost of entry still counts for a lot, especially if all you're going to do is rent.
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post #270 of 2370 Old 06-17-2007, 10:43 PM
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For right now the target audience of BD players is obviously people who own HDTV's and PJ's. The majority of these people are spending $2k+ on their displays. A $500 BD player really shouldn't be out of reach for someone who spends 4x that on a TV and really wants to get the best performance out of it. By the holiday season of this year I think low-end BD players will be selling for around $300 retail. BD should become a relatively mainstream format pretty quickly as HD DVD fades off.
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