Anyone compare HD with a 35mm print? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 97 Old 07-15-2007, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

To be fair I can think of at least 3 commercial cinemas in central london where I've never seen anything other than excellent film presentations . All of them I'd categorise as generally looking far superior to HD video . However on a nominal sized screen at home HD can look great ...unfortunately its still "just" video though.

London is like the Los Angeles in the U.K.; it's one of the biggest cities, it has the showcase theaters, and if I'm not mistaken they are still owned by the studios directly...of course they are getting the best prints. However, what we get anywhere in Florida looks like trash, and digital blows it away every time.

So to answer the initial question: yes, film CAN look better, in reality it almost never does.

By the way, I did have the chance to catch Mission Impossible II at the Empire theater in London. That was amazing.

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post #92 of 97 Old 07-15-2007, 04:42 PM
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When i go to a typical theatre watching 35mm I notice that the picture is often out of focus, or soft focus. This probably happens as much as one third to half of the time. I know it's not a problem with the print because often I'll see the sides are in perfect focus but the center is not, or vice versa, or the very top and bottom is in focus but the center is not, or vice versa. When the image is in focus though I would say the resolution of a 35mm print in even a typical theatre is probably about (in only my humble estimation) 1.7k to 2k. I've never seen a digital presentation out of focus/soft focus.

Can someone here answer me this then. Are 35mm projectors so much harder to focus than digital projectors or what? What gives?
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post #93 of 97 Old 07-16-2007, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cybersoga View Post

OK I just got back from watching Die Hard 4.0 at the local Odeon cinema, first time i've been to the cinema since I got a 1080p screen and HD disc player. Picture quality was terrible! It was soft, lacking in detail, low in contrast (whites were not very bright and blacks were not very dark) and also had a sepia color tone to it. It looked as if they had left the print out in the sun! I am convinced that if they had showed a blu-ray disc on a cutting edge digital projector it would have looked much better, despite the digital artifacts.

The print I saw had flicker. I suspect DNR was applied.
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post #94 of 97 Old 07-16-2007, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post

When i go to a typical theatre watching 35mm I notice that the picture is often out of focus, or soft focus. ... Are 35mm projectors so much harder to focus than digital projectors or what? What gives?

What you're describing might be due to the inability of the projector to keep the film in a flat plane. The chip(s) in a digital projector are rigid and quite flat, making focus quite uniform.
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post #95 of 97 Old 09-17-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cybersoga View Post

Has anyone ever had the chance to compare a domestic HD-DVD/Blu-ray disc with a commercial 35mm release print, both being projected on a commercial theater screen?

I am fortunate to be able to cover for a friend who owns a single screen cinema, I have worked in the cinema on and off for 30 years and I just help him out when he needs a day off here or there. He runs 35mm and 2K digital off a Christie 2000 commercial projector. You would be amazed at how many independent movies arrive on blu-ray, blu ray can be easily run on a DCP theater projector. The Hollywood stuff is almost always 35mm or 2K DCP.

Compared, blu-ray actually looks good on the large screen. It looks sharp and color is very good.

DCP looks very good as well and you would be hard pressed to sometimes notice the difference between a blu-ray vs DCP.

As for 35mm, it still looks superior, the color spectrum is much better and it just looks better.

BUT, you really would have to see them back to back to conclude that 35mm looks better..
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post #96 of 97 Old 12-20-2013, 01:54 PM
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Quote:Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

When i go to a typical theatre watching 35mm I notice that the picture is often out of focus, or soft focus. This probably happens as much as one third to half of the time. I know it's not a problem with the print because often I'll see the sides are in perfect focus but the center is not, or vice versa, or the very top and bottom is in focus but the center is not, or vice versa. When the image is in focus though I would say the resolution of a 35mm print in even a typical theatre is probably about (in only my humble estimation) 1.7k to 2k. I've never seen a digital presentation out of focus/soft focus.


Can someone here answer me this then. Are 35mm projectors so much harder to focus than digital projectors or what? What gives?
*********************************************

Consultant Matt Cowan's
pdf paper defines film resolution terms and outlines a 2001 ITU test taking place in various international movie theaters. Test patterns were produced like entertainment films and measured with both instruments (static) and rated in the theaters by about 6 expert observers. Figure 1 in the ITU paper shows the projected resolution bursts, and Figure 4 the subjectively viewed and averaged values for each theater. The varying values on each screen reveals focus variations. I assume the per-picture-height numbers mean the highest resolvable multiburst blocks seen by experts (before, say, vertical lines--for horizontal resolution--merge into gray). Also, multiply horizontal resolutions by 1.85 for resolution per picture width

Cowan writes (below his ITU results table about 1/2 down):
Quote:
Note that the observed numbers are lower than the measured numbers in the vertical due to the influence of the projection lens and the motion instability created by the projector. Horizontal numbers are substantially lower, induced by the projector motion as well.

Looks like ITU-like tests are needed to accurately compare film-vs.-digital projection. If you average values in Cowan's theater-results table and convert to lines/PW, the comparison suggests resolutions typical of 720p HD. These sub-links outline measured HD resolutions from video experts just before HDTV's U.S. introduction. -- John

Last edited by John Mason; 08-09-2014 at 11:56 AM. Reason: new urls
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post #97 of 97 Old 12-20-2013, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cybersoga View Post

Anyone connected a blu-ray/hd-dvd player to a Dcinema projector?

That is the core of my profession, and for 3D with each(Oppo) firmware upgrade the image keeps getting better and better. After three plays the celluloid yields to digital.

I saw man of steel today in 3d at Skoll with the dp2k and damn it looked great, sound too.

Also the 7.1 sound on discs recorded from Atmos and Auro masters is superior to those recorded strictly in 7.1, specially if you implement height channels with trinnov remapping and perhaps the Dts neo x may do that too.
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