"Codec Wars" : The attempt of an objective AVC/h.264 versus VC-1 benchmark - Page 30 - AVS Forum
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post #871 of 891 Old 10-19-2008, 11:12 AM
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so... anybody still uses VC-1 ?

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post #872 of 891 Old 10-19-2008, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

so... anybody still uses VC-1 ?

"How The West Was Won" - Warner Brothers
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post #873 of 891 Old 10-19-2008, 11:37 AM
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okay, allow me to re-iterate: is there any new releases planned will be using VC-1?

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post #874 of 891 Old 10-19-2008, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

okay, allow me to re-iterate: is there any new releases planned will be using VC-1?

What would you like the answer to be?

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post #875 of 891 Old 10-19-2008, 12:11 PM
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I want the answer to be "yes". That's why I asked I like VC-1 encodes from the HD DVD days.

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post #876 of 891 Old 10-19-2008, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I want the answer to be "yes". That's why I asked I like VC-1 encodes from the HD DVD days.

"You are a good man Charlie Brown ".

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post #877 of 891 Old 10-19-2008, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by davidcw8 View Post

"How The West Was Won" - Warner Brothers

These are Xylon's opinions, and I was also really impressed with this BD.

"In terms of overall picture quality compared to other restored catalog titles, this transfer tops them all. Better than Grand Prix HD DVD or The Searchers. It blows them away. Tired of reading posts like "Old movies can never look as good as the blockbuster movies of today!!!" ? I will tell you that this 45 year old movie is sharper, clearer and more detailed than most *ahem* TIER 0 PQ Blu-rays or HD DVDs.

Filmed using Cinerama process it is just f****** gorgeous. Watching the movie using the "Smilebox" version is truly an experience. The depth of field is amazing giving you the effect of "3D" or "looking thru a window". I still remember renting the laserdisc version from Dave's Video at Studio City many years ago in glorious widescreen 480i and digital stereo sound I don't want to sound elitist but after watching this movie and some of its scenes multiple times on different viewing sets of mine(check my profile for a list of my HT equipment), anything less than a 1080p projector is not recommended (my opinion). Now if you have a curved screen then its even better

No noticeable EE observed. Mild DNR is present on some scenes. But not to the level of Patton or Longest Day. Film grain is intact. DNR dial is not cranked up to "11" like those two. No waxy faces here. Fox studios should contact WB on the proper use of DNR on HD catalog titles."
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post #878 of 891 Old 10-27-2008, 07:00 AM
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post #879 of 891 Old 10-27-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

so... anybody still uses VC-1 ?

I think most WB releases are still in VC-1. Weinstein's new Diary of the Dead was also VC-1, so perhaps they will continue to use VC-1 rather than AVC. I think Universal may have moved over to AVC since Incredible Hulk uses AVC rather than VC-1.

Band of Brothers in high bitrate VC-1 is beautiful with lots of grain fully intact.

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post #880 of 891 Old 10-29-2008, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by xradman View Post

I think most WB releases are still in VC-1. Weinstein's new Diary of the Dead was also VC-1, so perhaps they will continue to use VC-1 rather than AVC. I think Universal may have moved over to AVC since Incredible Hulk uses AVC rather than VC-1.

Band of Brothers in high bitrate VC-1 is beautiful with lots of grain fully intact.

Dreamworks seems to use VC1 on some movies.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #881 of 891 Old 10-29-2008, 12:30 PM
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Band of Brothers in high bitrate VC-1 is beautiful with lots of grain fully intact.

Not as much as was removed. HBO is on an anti-grain crusade.
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post #882 of 891 Old 07-20-2013, 02:31 AM
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Old and passionned thread ... ;-)

But I not resist:

@ amirm

You are in the area? VC1 is officialy dead?
Not developped, not promoved ... it's strange for the best codec in the area, isn't?
And I wait always real exemple where VC1 make better job that MPEG2 at 1:3 ratio ... ;-)

@ all

It's time for new codec war comparison. Test with H264, HEVC and VP9 will become ...
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post #883 of 891 Old 07-20-2013, 12:33 PM
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Yes, I am here although don't read this subforum all the time. Sadly VC-1 may indeed be dead as far as Blu-ray production. When I left Microsoft, there were multiple re-orgs and the group that advanced the encoder was disbanded and repurposed. So post houses moved to AVC which has vendors whose business is to produce these encoders.

HEVC should be a better a codec but the demos I saw at NAB were very poorly done with many obvious artifacts. These were low bit rate demos though but still, you would think they people showing these to broadcasters/post houses would know better than to show them that way.

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post #884 of 891 Old 07-20-2013, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Yes, I am here although don't read this subforum all the time. Sadly VC-1 may indeed be dead as far as Blu-ray production. When I left Microsoft, there were multiple re-orgs and the group that advanced the encoder was disbanded and repurposed. So post houses moved to AVC which has vendors whose business is to produce these encoders.

Well it's like that, H264 have really too much advantage over VC1 (not for bluray or HDDVD encoding)


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HEVC should be a better a codec but the demos I saw at NAB were very poorly done with many obvious artifacts. These were low bit rate demos though but still, you would think they people showing these to broadcasters/post houses would know better than to show them that way.

Well as always, codec designer annonce same result at half bitrate for HEVC if you compare with H264. And as always I have serious doubt about that. They certainely use crappy H264 implementation with best possible case for HEVC. Anyway if you want show the real HEVC powefull, you must encode at really high quantizer because HEVC make incredible job for that. 720p at 2 Kbps and 1080p at 4 Kbps are really good for example.
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post #885 of 891 Old 07-21-2013, 12:03 AM
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Well as always, codec designer annonce same result at half bitrate for HEVC if you compare with H264. And as always I have serious doubt about that. They certainely use crappy H264 implementation with best possible case for HEVC. Anyway if you want show the real HEVC powefull, you must encode at really high quantizer because HEVC make incredible job for that. 720p at 2 Kbps and 1080p at 4 Kbps are really good for example.
kbps? I think you are off by a factor of 1000 smile.gif. The awful demos I saw at NAB were at 2-4 Kbps. There were huge number of artifacts in high motion demos they were doing. 4 mbit/sec for 1080p will be far from transparency no matter which way you skin the cat.

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post #886 of 891 Old 07-21-2013, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

4 mbit/sec for 1080p will be far from transparency no matter which way you skin the cat.

Maybe not if you DNR the hell out of the master and then round it down to 8bit (without dither) before encoding it, as some studios like to do... mad.gif
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post #887 of 891 Old 07-21-2013, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

kbps? I think you are off by a factor of 1000 smile.gif. The awful demos I saw at NAB were at 2-4 Kbps. There were huge number of artifacts in high motion demos they were doing. 4 mbit/sec for 1080p will be far from transparency no matter which way you skin the cat.

Yes 2 Mbps for 720p and 4Mbps for 1080p but It's more for "HDTV quality" here. HEVC work particulary well for high motion. Sportive content will have really good quality at 4 Mbps in 1080p. In my contry (France) that mean "HD for all" in practice even if you are at high distance to DSLAM. That mean more disponible HD chanel too.
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post #888 of 891 Old 07-21-2013, 01:27 PM
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Nobody I know uses this .... it was always an inferior CODEC.

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post #889 of 891 Old 07-22-2013, 01:53 PM
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Nobody I know uses this .... it was always an inferior CODEC.

Well HEVC is the next generation CODEC. HEVC is really more efficient than H264. Perhaps not 50% at this time but it's already at least 25% better with the first available implementation if you compare with the best H264 implementation in the area (x264, Ateme, Mainconcept).
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post #890 of 891 Old 07-22-2013, 06:06 PM
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Universal's recent bluray release of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA (78) was VC-1.
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post #891 of 891 Old 07-23-2013, 01:45 AM
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Universal's recent bluray release of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA (78) was VC-1.

Well there are certainely recent MPEG2 realise in the area. Anyway it's not a problem for me. MPEG2 produce really good result at 30 Mbps for 1080p. Even golden eyes can't make difference between MPEG2, VC1 or H264 at 30 Mbps. Choose VC1 and H264 for BD50 (40 Mbps for max bitrate and 30 KB for buffer) is simply a marketing scam. Bluray want VC1 and H264 because HDDVD choose these codec (good choice here with 30 Mbps max, 15 KB and in practice less than 20 Mbps max with multi audio DD+, pip). Today it's really simple to make beautifull BD50 ripp on DVD9 with H264.
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